Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:51:27 -0700 (MST) From: Brian Riggs <Brian.Riggs-at-genetics.utah.edu> Subject: UtahFWDA Winter Convention For anyone who is interested: Utah Four Wheel Drive Association Winter Convention Join us for some fun in the Snow!! We will meet at the Riverton Plaza. 12600 S. 1700 W. at 8:00 a.m. and leave for the run at 9:00 a.m. This years run will be in the Five Mile Pass area which is just west of Cedar Fort. We will end the run in time for people to get back to town and warm up and get ready for the Dinner and the Elections. The Meeting is being held at the restaurant inside the Salt Lake Gun Club located at 208 S. Redwood Road (just north of I-215) in North Salt Lake at 7:00 p.m. We have the choice of either Chicken or Beef for dinner this year. We will need you to R.S.V.P. for the Dinner so that we can plan accordingly. For more information contact: Brett Davis-President bdavis-at-burgoyne.com Brian Riggs-Activities Director briggs-at-genetics.utah.edu[Back to Top]
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 10:54:20 -0500 From: brewer-at-thaad.tecmas.com (John Brewer) Subject: Sunny and Warm in Dixie Sheesh, I though it was supposed to be warm south of the Mason-Dixon line! It might not get to 5 below like in Minnesota but this friday's weather... Low 5 deg, high 17 deg. and the weekend's not much better. I need to move back out west where its warm! JB "Any man who would trade liberty for security deserves neither." Benjamin Franklin[Back to Top]
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:00:21 -0500 From: PChuck <peterson-at-qualab.enet.qntm.com> Subject: re:PTO Does this mean that if you take out the low range that you coule add a = Power Take Off unit? (Not that I can see that as an overall = benefit....) >> There is a=20 >>catch. You > >can't use the PTO and have low-range because the low-range unit=20 >>mounts in the > >PTO's hole. Chuck[Back to Top]
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:15:56 -0500 (EST) From: GypsyLive-at-aol.com Subject: Re: SIX CYLINDERs - and a DIESEL too!!! :) In a message dated 97-01-16 12:12:25 EST, you write: > ORIG MSG: did you look under the hood of that freightliner ???? > ORIG MSG: if you did you'd see a big straight six :} > ORIG MSG: > With pistons the size of buckets right? What kind of desplacement in one of those big I6's Kerosene burners?[Back to Top]
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:17:11 -0500 (EST) From: GypsyLive-at-aol.com Subject: Re: 258 vs 360-2v In a message dated 97-01-16 12:03:19 EST, you write: > > have you driven a detuned 81? Old Blue is only rated at 129bhp... They > also lowered > him at the factory 1.5", put 2.72 gears and a spoiler on him... desperately > trying > to improve the fuel economy, I guess... he's even got Aluminum bumpers... > I have driven some Gws of the mid 80-s vintage, your right, they are very weak...Mine feels like a sports car compared to a factory detuned engine! Isnt an engine with less emmision equipment running more effeciently, making more power getting better mileage? why choke it down, I dont understand the logic, why automakers think its better to have a big engine choked down.. the lowet numbers chiltons shows for 2v 360 85-86 144hp-at-3200rpm, 280ftlbs-at-1500 highest # for the 258 77-86 2bbl 114-at-3600, 196 ftlbs-at-2000 How would I try to figure the output of my engine, The heads have been milled twice so the compression ratio is a little higher than stock, id guess close to 9-1, also Im using a 500 cfm holley 2 barrel..anybody have software to figure HP and Torque numbers?[Back to Top]
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:43:14 -0800 (PST)
From: john <john-at->
Subject: Re: need to test...
ORIG MSG: Ill time my cherokee also, But i might wait for the ice to thaw!!!
Why? don't you have 4wd? Oh wait, you only have TWO doors, I forgot. <snicker, snicker,
chortle, snort... - john doing his best dilbert impersonation...>
Ice, aren't you down in R - kansas? (that's the way a former German POW I met in Frankfurt
called it... had me going for a bit, in my mind I was immediately up in Kansas... took a little
to figure out he meant Arkansas.. think that's bad, you ought to hear the way they say Florida...)
later,
john
------------------------------------------------------------------
Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold...
--------------------------------------------------------------------
_________ _ _______ _ _ _
|_________| | /_______| | |_|_| John Meister
| _______|_| | ____|_| _ _ john-at-
| | | | / / | | | Snohomish, WA, USA
| |_|_ _ | \_\___ _ | | |
|______| | |________\ \ | | | http:
| ___|_| \____ | | _ _ | | | //www.
| | | \ | | | | | | | | /~john
| | | _____/ | | | | | | | |
|__| | |________| | | \_\_| | |
|__|_|ull |________/_/ize \______/_/eep . . . enthusiast.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Full Size Jeep Page Editor - Off-Road.com
81 Wagoneer Ltd (SJ) "Old Blue" (& 88 xj wgnr ltd)
http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/jeep/jeep.html (FSJ page coming soon...)
------------------------------------------------------------------
[Back to Top]Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:44:48 -0800 (PST)
From: john <john-at->
Subject: Re: Sunny and Warm in Dixie??? NOT
ORIG MSG:
ORIG MSG: Sheesh, I though it was supposed to be warm south of the Mason-Dixon line!
ORIG MSG: It might not get to 5 below like in Minnesota but this friday's weather...
ORIG MSG: Low 5 deg, high 17 deg. and the weekend's not much better.
ORIG MSG:
ORIG MSG: I need to move back out west where its warm!
ORIG MSG: JB
ORIG MSG: "Any man who would trade liberty for security deserves neither."
ORIG MSG: Benjamin Franklin
mid 40's predicted for Seattle - clouds returning - YAH!! Should return to our normal
40 to 50 temps... ya gotta love them clouds...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the just shall live by faith...
mas el justo vivira por fe...
der gerechte wird aus glauben leben...
ho de dikaios ek pisteos zesetai...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www./~john john-at-
Snohomish, WA - where jeeps don't rust, they mold.
81 (SJ) & 88 (xj) Jeep Wagoneer Limited
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Back to Top]Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 13:44:14 -0500 From: Joe Sego <jsego-at-ai2a.net> Subject: Re: need to test... At 08:04 AM 1/16/97 -0800, you wrote: >ORIG MSG: >ORIG MSG: In a message dated 97-01-16 01:17:54 EST, you write: >ORIG MSG: > Yeah, but John has driven in Timex and he said it wasn't any slower than >ORIG MSG: old Blue. >ORIG MSG: > >ORIG MSG: The horsepower and torque ratings are suprisingly close, but after about 75 > >what might be helpful, is to list the specs for the 85 J-10 w/ the 258 >and the 81 Wag with the 360. also the gears, Old Blue has 2.72's, I don't >remember what Timex has... I think j-10's have a 3:54 gear stock or a 4:09 optional, with a 6 it could be the 4:09 gear ratio. Joe-[Back to Top]
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 13:54:10 -0500 From: Joe Sego <jsego-at-ai2a.net> Subject: Re: 258 vs 360-2v At 12:17 PM 1/16/97 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 97-01-16 12:03:19 EST, you write: > >> >> have you driven a detuned 81? Old Blue is only rated at 129bhp... They >> also lowered >> him at the factory 1.5", put 2.72 gears and a spoiler on him... > desperately >> trying >> to improve the fuel economy, I guess... he's even got Aluminum bumpers... >> >I have driven some Gws of the mid 80-s vintage, your right, they are very >weak...Mine feels like a sports car compared to a factory detuned engine! >Isnt an engine with less emmision equipment running more effeciently, making >more power getting better mileage? why choke it down, I dont understand the >logic, why automakers think its better to have a big engine choked down.. Yep, I almost bought a 81 (I think) WAG last summer, went back and test drove it 3 times. Could not believe what a dog it was. I kept asking what was wrong with it. They claimed it ran as good as it ever did, my Cherokee and my old tired j-10 could have run off and hide from it. I'm betting it had the 2;72 gears, as it wouldn't get out of it's own way, no way would it have been a snow pusher. Escorts have much better acceleration. My $.02 worth, frozen and all Joe[Back to Top]
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 11:19:23 -0800 (PST)
From: john <john-at->
Subject: Re: 258 vs 360-2v
ORIG MSG: Yep, I almost bought a 81 (I think) WAG last summer,
ORIG MSG: went back and test drove it 3 times. Could not
ORIG MSG: believe what a dog it was. I kept asking what was wrong
ORIG MSG: with it. They claimed it ran as good as it ever did,
ORIG MSG: my Cherokee and my old tired j-10 could have run off
ORIG MSG: and hide from it. I'm betting it had the 2;72 gears,
ORIG MSG: as it wouldn't get out of it's own way, no way would it
ORIG MSG: have been a snow pusher. Escorts have much better
ORIG MSG: acceleration.
ORIG MSG:
ORIG MSG: My $.02 worth, frozen and all
ORIG MSG:
ORIG MSG: Joe
acceleration ain't got nothing to do with snow pushing... look at the torque
specs... Old Blue may be a little sluggish compared to say like Ron Strouss's
Wagoneer, but it DID move that 37,000 lb Freightliner... I'd slap a plow
on Old Blue in a heart beat, if I had one... It would be nicer to have a 4v,
but hey, he proved himself this last storm... plenty of low end grunt.
john
------------------------------------------------------------------
Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold...
--------------------------------------------------------------------
_________ _ _______ _ _ _
|_________| | /_______| | |_|_| John Meister
| _______|_| | ____|_| _ _ john-at-
| | | | / / | | | Snohomish, WA, USA
| |_|_ _ | \_\___ _ | | |
|______| | |________\ \ | | | http:
| ___|_| \____ | | _ _ | | | //www.
| | | \ | | | | | | | | /~john
| | | _____/ | | | | | | | |
|__| | |________| | | \_\_| | |
|__|_|ull |________/_/ize \______/_/eep . . . enthusiast.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Full Size Jeep Page Editor - Off-Road.com
81 Wagoneer Ltd (SJ) "Old Blue" (& 88 xj wgnr ltd)
http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/jeep/jeep.html (FSJ page coming soon...)
------------------------------------------------------------------
[Back to Top]Date: 16 Jan 1997 12:48:12 -0600 From: "Jeff Gunn" <jgunn-at-hou.varco.com> Subject: Re: 258 vs 360-2v I would like to take this opportunity to defend the emissions control systems in place on automobiles. There are actually several reasons why the power output of American engines declined in the seventies and eighties, according to my Combustion Engine Processes course in college. Although emissions controls played a part, the automakers had been detuning cars for mileage starting after the first gas crunch of the seventies. Federal CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards have increased the required CAFE on a regular basis for many years. When PROPERLY applied, emissions controls do not make a noticeable decrease in power. Good catalytic converters, smog pumps, EGR valves, etc. are not horsepower killers. Look at my Saturn for instance. 125 HP from a 1.9 liter naturally aspirated engine loaded with emissions controls. Pretty hot...of course, it's fuel injected with dual overheads camshafts, etc. Anyway, the problem is not with the emissions controls alone. I am not afraid of restoring the emissions controls on my Cherokee, as long as they are properly functioning, and the rest of the engine is properly functioning. Soapbox... Replies? Jeff[Back to Top]
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:47:39 -0500 From: Joe Sego <jsego-at-ai2a.net> Subject: Re: 258 vs 360-2v >acceleration ain't got nothing to do with snow pushing... look at the torque >specs... Old Blue may be a little sluggish compared to say like Ron Strouss's >Wagoneer, but it DID move that 37,000 lb Freightliner... I'd slap a plow >on Old Blue in a heart beat, if I had one... It would be nicer to have a 4v, >but hey, he proved himself this last storm... plenty of low end grunt. > >john > How can you have much torque to the ground with a high gear ratio? I've plowed too much snow, the WAG I drove would never cut it. Maybe something WAS wrong with it. My Chevy van had more torque and power, it's a 305 4v. btw, that WAG wouldn't spin the tires in gravel! Pulling something out is based on the situation. No general rules apply. Last nite I was almost ready to call a tow truck...was pushing a driveway out at 1:00 am , pushed the very heavy wet snow across the road to the ditch, right front tire dropped off the pavement (maybe 4 or 5 inches down) road covered with 3 inches of ice. Could not go forward because of piled snow and ditch. Thought I'd never get out, finally made it after several minutes and lots of spinning wheels. If you saw the spot, you'd laugh, no way to get hung up there. I've already decided some type of locker front end before next winter. The Cherokee does ok with the 3:54 gears, I'd like to have the 4:09's out of the j-10. Plus my tires are only 29" tops. p235-70 r15's. I talked to another plow driver last nite with a new (97) Chevy 4x4, it had 4:11 gears, he said the truck he traded in, a 95, had 4:56's it did much better than the 97. Gears move things. C'ya joe- >------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >-------------------------------------------------------------------- > _________ _ _______ _ _ _ > |_________| | /_______| | |_|_| John Meister > | _______|_| | ____|_| _ _ john-at- > | | | | / / | | | Snohomish, WA, USA > | |_|_ _ | \_\___ _ | | | > |______| | |________\ \ | | | http: > | ___|_| \____ | | _ _ | | | //www. > | | | \ | | | | | | | | /~john > | | | _____/ | | | | | | | | > |__| | |________| | | \_\_| | | > |__|_|ull |________/_/ize \______/_/eep . . . enthusiast. >-------------------------------------------------------------------- > Full Size Jeep Page Editor - Off-Road.com > 81 Wagoneer Ltd (SJ) "Old Blue" (& 88 xj wgnr ltd) > http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/jeep/jeep.html (FSJ page coming soon...) >------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >--------------------------------------------------- >To Unsubscribe send email to macjordomo-at-listserver.tehabi.com with the command >"unsubscribe FSJ-List" in the body of the message. > > > >[Back to Top]
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:52:41 -0500 From: Joe Sego <jsego-at-ai2a.net> Subject: Re: 258 vs 360-2v At 12:48 PM 1/16/97 -0600, you wrote: > >I would like to take this opportunity to defend the emissions control >systems in place on automobiles. There are actually several reasons why >the power output of American engines declined in the seventies and >eighties, according to my Combustion Engine Processes course in college. > Although emissions controls played a part, the automakers had been >detuning cars for mileage starting after the first gas crunch of the >seventies. Federal CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards have >increased the required CAFE on a regular basis for many years. When >PROPERLY applied, emissions controls do not make a noticeable decrease >in power. Good catalytic converters, smog pumps, EGR valves, etc. are >not horsepower killers. Look at my Saturn for instance. 125 HP from a >1.9 liter naturally aspirated engine loaded with emissions controls. >Pretty hot...of course, it's fuel injected with dual overheads >camshafts, etc. Anyway, the problem is not with the emissions controls >alone. I am not afraid of restoring the emissions controls on my >Cherokee, as long as they are properly functioning, and the rest of the >engine is properly functioning. > >Soapbox... > >Replies? > >Jeff > > Great post Jeff, I agree 100%, it just seems when a problem or failure occurs with emmission items they can be discarded or unhooked with no ill effects. (unless you have testing) Not many things on a truck you can say that about is there? :-) "Hey this water pump is squealing, heck with it, I'll just unhook the belt!" Bored again in Indy, Joe >--------------------------------------------------- >To Unsubscribe send email to macjordomo-at-listserver.tehabi.com with the command >"unsubscribe FSJ-List" in the body of the message. > > > >[Back to Top]
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 11:52:55 -0800 (PST)
From: john <john-at->
Subject: Re: 258 vs 360-2v
ORIG MSG: Although emissions controls played a part, the automakers had been
ORIG MSG: detuning cars for mileage starting after the first gas crunch of the
ORIG MSG: seventies. Federal CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards have
Besides Joe and me, how many folks remember the 1973/4(?) Oil Embargo? Anybody have an FSJ back
then? thankfully we only had an Olds 98 (455), a 73 Pinto Wagon, and my 68 Mustang...
Guess who got the honors of taking the cars down to the local gas station, waiting in line
and getting our 10 gallon limit? All the while in line I began to design a switch that would
make my gas guage appear lower than it was... Little did I realize that years later I would
be among folks who have vehicles that do that AUTOMATICALLY!! :)
I also remember when the speed limits dropped... :( Sure was happy to have been shipped off
to the Autobahn, I mean Germany...
BTW, early emission systems created a lot of problems, that's why a lot of folks want to
rig them out... I agree with the idea that they're fine now. Except for the hare brained
idea of an EGR valve on a Diesel... take carbon particles and introduce them into the cylinder,
and then wonder why the rings wear out as fast or faster than a gas engine... sheesh, you already
have an engine that produces half the oxides of nitrogen that a comparable gas engine would and
then screw it up trying to lower it...
I'd shudder to think of what it must have been like for folks with FSJ's back during that Oil Crunch...
My dad would end up taking my Mustang or my mom's Pinto to work, even though his Olds got almost 18mpg...
Wasn't there another Oil Crunch stateside in the late 70's? I was over in Germany from 75 to 81 and
missed a lot...
later,
john
------------------------------------------------------------------
Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold...
--------------------------------------------------------------------
_________ _ _______ _ _ _
|_________| | /_______| | |_|_| John Meister
| _______|_| | ____|_| _ _ john-at-
| | | | / / | | | Snohomish, WA, USA
| |_|_ _ | \_\___ _ | | |
|______| | |________\ \ | | | http:
| ___|_| \____ | | _ _ | | | //www.
| | | \ | | | | | | | | /~john
| | | _____/ | | | | | | | |
|__| | |________| | | \_\_| | |
|__|_|ull |________/_/ize \______/_/eep . . . enthusiast.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Full Size Jeep Page Editor - Off-Road.com
81 Wagoneer Ltd (SJ) "Old Blue" (& 88 xj wgnr ltd)
http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/jeep/jeep.html (FSJ page coming soon...)
------------------------------------------------------------------
[Back to Top]Date: 16 Jan 1997 13:43:17 -0600 From: "Jeff Gunn" <jgunn-at-hou.varco.com> Subject: Re: 258 vs 360-2v On Jan 16, 1:52pm, Joe Sego wrote: > Subject: Re: 258 vs 360-2v > > > "Hey this water pump is squealing, heck with it, I'll just unhook the belt!" > > Bored again in Indy, > Joe > > >-- End of excerpt from Joe Sego I'd buy THAT truck for sure! Jeff[Back to Top]
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 15:41:06 -0500 From: Rick Terhune <terhuner-at-smtpgw2.musc.edu> Subject: key :-( -Reply Joe, Regarding your broken key, someone told me that they had this happen to them and they put some superglue on a q-tip or toothpick and then put it into the ignition and let it set while pressing it tight against what was left of the key. Came right out (so I was told ). Hope this helps. Rick in Charleston "79 Cherokee (still in body shop)[Back to Top]
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:39:00 -0500 (EST) From: GypsyLive-at-aol.com Subject: Re: 258 vs 360-2v In a message dated 97-01-16 14:36:49 EST, you write: > > acceleration ain't got nothing to do with snow pushing... look at the torque > specs... Old Blue may be a little sluggish compared to say like Ron Strouss' > s > Wagoneer, but it DID move that 37,000 lb Freightliner... I'd slap a plow > on Old Blue in a heart beat, if I had one... It would be nicer to have a 4v, > > but hey, he proved himself this last storm... plenty of low end grunt. > > john > Methinks a snow plow and your 2.72 Ring and Pinions, would burn up that good old Torqueflight 727![Back to Top]
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:44:25 -0500 (EST) From: GypsyLive-at-aol.com Subject: Re: 258 vs 360-2v How do you detune an engine for mileage?, Why do we change sparkplugs? so it runs better! This is what I was saying I did not under stand...[Back to Top]
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 13:42:29 -0800 (PST)
From: john <john-at->
Subject: Re: 258 vs 360-2v
ORIG MSG: Methinks a snow plow and your 2.72 Ring and Pinions, would burn up that good
ORIG MSG: old Torqueflight 727!
very likely, I know it didn't like this last go around with the snow much... even in low range...
john
------------------------------------------------------------------
Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold...
--------------------------------------------------------------------
_________ _ _______ _ _ _
|_________| | /_______| | |_|_| John Meister
| _______|_| | ____|_| _ _ john-at-
| | | | / / | | | Snohomish, WA, USA
| |_|_ _ | \_\___ _ | | |
|______| | |________\ \ | | | http:
| ___|_| \____ | | _ _ | | | //www.
| | | \ | | | | | | | | /~john
| | | _____/ | | | | | | | |
|__| | |________| | | \_\_| | |
|__|_|ull |________/_/ize \______/_/eep . . . enthusiast.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Full Size Jeep Page Editor - Off-Road.com
81 Wagoneer Ltd (SJ) "Old Blue" (& 88 xj wgnr ltd)
http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/jeep/jeep.html (FSJ page coming soon...)
------------------------------------------------------------------
[Back to Top]Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:03:29 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Anhalt <tanhalt-at-earthlink.net> Subject: Re: 258 vs 360-2v At 12:48 PM 1/16/97 -0600, you wrote: > >I would like to take this opportunity to defend the emissions control >systems in place on automobiles. There are actually several reasons why >the power output of American engines declined in the seventies and >eighties, according to my Combustion Engine Processes course in college. > Although emissions controls played a part, the automakers had been >detuning cars for mileage starting after the first gas crunch of the >seventies. Federal CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards have >increased the required CAFE on a regular basis for many years. When >PROPERLY applied, emissions controls do not make a noticeable decrease >in power. Good catalytic converters, smog pumps, EGR valves, etc. are >not horsepower killers. Look at my Saturn for instance. 125 HP from a >1.9 liter naturally aspirated engine loaded with emissions controls. >Pretty hot...of course, it's fuel injected with dual overheads >camshafts, etc. Anyway, the problem is not with the emissions controls >alone. I am not afraid of restoring the emissions controls on my >Cherokee, as long as they are properly functioning, and the rest of the >engine is properly functioning. > >Soapbox... > >Replies? > >Jeff Actually, there are some devices which are added for emissions control purposes which actually increase, or have the potential to increase, the efficiency and/or power of the engine. Two examples which come to mind are the EGR (adds "octane") and fuel injection (or a feedback carb like my Carter) which optimizes the air/fuel mixture. I think emissions equipment gets a lot of bad press due to marginal or non-functional equipment mucking things up. My Cherokee never ran right (sluggish, bad economy) until I went through the emissions and vacuum systems and mad SURE everything was working right. Now it's great. I would believe that a lot of the detuning in the '70s and '80s had to happen to meet the CAFE and emissions regulations because things like fuel injection and computer engine controls were not mature/cheap enough to be added quickly. A good majority of the "kludged on" emission controls of that era are not used on a modern FI engine. Really the only major emissions devices nowadays are the computer, the FI and the catalytic converter. Basically, the more completely you burn the fuel, the more power you will have, the better efficiency you will get, and the emissions will be low. Old "muscle car" era engines produced a lot of power in a "brute force" manner - Have a big displacement, dump lots of fuel and air into it, compress it to the max (premium was cheap), and light it off. Sure is a heck of a lot of fun that way, but look at how much this group wanks about bad gas mileage. And have you ever seen the old pictures of traffic jams and smog in LA. Yeech! -Tom Anhalt '81 Wide-Track Cherokee Laredo '65 Buick Special Convertible Santa Barbara, CA[Back to Top]
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:04:02 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Anhalt <tanhalt-at-earthlink.net> Subject: Re: latte At 08:11 AM 1/16/97 -0800, you wrote: >At 08:05 AM 1/15/97 -0800, you wrote: >> >>For the list members who enjoy an occasional beer, I would like to propose >>the official summer drink be my very own homebrew, "Full-Size Pale Ale". >>Since most people won't have access to that (unless we have a get-together), >>how about some Sierra Nevada Pale Ale :) >> >>And for the non-alcoholic option, fresh lemonade!! >> >>-Tom Anhalt >>'81 Wide-Track Cherokee Laredo >>'65 Buick Special Convertible >>Santa Barbara, CA > >A most excellent choice, Tom, how long have you been brewing? >mick > The beer, for about a year. The lemonade, since I was a youngster. -Tom Anhalt '81 Wide-Track Cherokee Laredo '65 Buick Special Convertible Santa Barbara, CA[Back to Top]
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:04:38 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Anhalt <tanhalt-at-earthlink.net> Subject: Re: need to test... At 01:44 PM 1/16/97 -0500, you wrote: >At 08:04 AM 1/16/97 -0800, you wrote: >>ORIG MSG: >>ORIG MSG: In a message dated 97-01-16 01:17:54 EST, you write: >>ORIG MSG: > Yeah, but John has driven in Timex and he said it wasn't >any slower than >>ORIG MSG: old Blue. >>ORIG MSG: > >>ORIG MSG: The horsepower and torque ratings are suprisingly close, but >after about 75 >> >>what might be helpful, is to list the specs for the 85 J-10 w/ the 258 >>and the 81 Wag with the 360. also the gears, Old Blue has 2.72's, I don't >>remember what Timex has... > >I think j-10's have a 3:54 gear stock or a 4:09 optional, with a 6 it could be >the 4:09 gear ratio. > >Joe- > I seem to recall Doc saying he's also got 2.72s and thats why he wishes he had 3.31s so he could go back to 33" tires. -Tom Anhalt '81 Wide-Track Cherokee Laredo '65 Buick Special Convertible Santa Barbara, CA[Back to Top]
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 14:05:05 -0800 From: "Kenneth E. Wetherall" <kenns-at-concentric.net> Subject: Re: SIX CYLINDERs - and a DIESEL too!!! :) can we say NOISE!! john wrote: > > can we say torque? > > Hey, wonder what it would take to make a 6 cylinder Diesel that would drop right in > place of a 4.2 or 4.0L... :) > > I'd say we'd have a few customers for something like that... probably not enough to > cover the tooling costs or the class action suits from people who don't know how to > care for Diesels... > > dreamin' of Diesels... > -- Sincerely Kenneth Wetherall kenns-at-concentric.net[Back to Top]
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 14:09:49 -0800 From: "Kenneth E. Wetherall" <kenns-at-concentric.net> Subject: Re: 258 vs 360-2v FI is NOT natrually asperaited!!! Jeff Gunn wrote: > > I would like to take this opportunity to defend the emissions control > systems in place on automobiles. There are actually several reasons why > the power output of American engines declined in the seventies and > eighties, according to my Combustion Engine Processes course in college. > Although emissions controls played a part, the automakers had been > detuning cars for mileage starting after the first gas crunch of the > seventies. Federal CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards have > increased the required CAFE on a regular basis for many years. When > PROPERLY applied, emissions controls do not make a noticeable decrease > in power. Good catalytic converters, smog pumps, EGR valves, etc. are > not horsepower killers. Look at my Saturn for instance. 125 HP from a > 1.9 liter naturally aspirated engine loaded with emissions controls. > Pretty hot...of course, it's fuel injected with dual overheads > camshafts, etc. Anyway, the problem is not with the emissions controls > alone. I am not afraid of restoring the emissions controls on my > Cherokee, as long as they are properly functioning, and the rest of the > engine is properly functioning. > > Soapbox... > > Replies? > > Jeff > > --------------------------------------------------- > To Unsubscribe send email to macjordomo-at-listserver.tehabi.com with the command > "unsubscribe FSJ-List" in the body of the message. > > -- Sincerely Kenneth Wetherall kenns-at-concentric.net[Back to Top]
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:28:35 -0500 (EST) From: Louhg-at-aol.com Subject: Re: Front end squeak sounds to me also like the springs ,in cold weather since the steel shrinks in the cold,and i would say right side since that would be the side with less pressure on it ,stoppping ,turning left body roll will go left just a thought louhg rusty 83 sj 2dr[Back to Top]
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:26:17 +0100 From: "Frank" <falmaas-at-online.no> Subject: SV: You are right !!! You can't beat cubic inches :-)) Frank 360 wants bigger (even with Norwegian gas prices) ---------- > Fra: john <john-at-> > Til: Multiple recipients of <fsj-list-at-listserver.tehabi.com> > Emne: Re: You are right !!! > Dato: 16. januar 1997 06:56 > > ORIG MSG: Unless you have very easy access to a 360 or another V8 (like a wrecked late > ORIG MSG: model firebird with an LT-1) I would rebuild the six that you have. I think > ORIG MSG: that the concensus around here is that the six gives overall better mileage. > ORIG MSG: For example, I usually see around 14-15 mpg around town and 19-21 on the > ORIG MSG: highway with the six. I think most of the people with the V8 would be happy > ORIG MSG: with 14-15 mpg on the highway. As far as performance goes, I have been very > ORIG MSG: happy so far with the torque capabilties of the 258 in my Jeep and don't see > ORIG MSG: any reason to change it for a V8. Of course, since I've never driven an FSJ > ORIG MSG: with the 360, maybe ignorance is bliss. > ORIG MSG: > ORIG MSG: Tom Anhalt > > The performance of the 2V 360's probably isn't too much more than a 258, but the > ones with 4V's might disagree... Doc's Timex was quite respectable, although > she has a manual, whereas Old Blue has a slush box and a 2v... I'm sure Old > Blue has a performance advantage, but I'd swap motors in a heartbeat to > get the mileage doc gets... Besides, straight 6's are pretty simple, smooth > and cool. This little 4.0L in the little wagoneer is making me a believer... :) > > later, > john > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > _________ _ _______ _ _ _ > |_________| | /_______| | |_|_| John Meister > | _______|_| | ____|_| _ _ john-at- > | | | | / / | | | Snohomish, WA, USA > | |_|_ _ | \_\___ _ | | | > |______| | |________\ \ | | | http: > | ___|_| \____ | | _ _ | | | //www. > | | | \ | | | | | | | | /~john > | | | _____/ | | | | | | | | > |__| | |________| | | \_\_| | | > |__|_|ull |________/_/ize \______/_/eep . . . enthusiast. > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > 81 JEEP Wagoneer Ltd - "Old Blue" > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > To Unsubscribe send email to macjordomo-at-listserver.tehabi.com with the command > "unsubscribe FSJ-List" in the body of the message. > >[Back to Top]
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:28:15 +0100 From: "Frank" <falmaas-at-online.no> Subject: SV: Hydraulic Winch ---------- > Fra: Michael Baxter <74172.1164-at-CompuServe.COM> > Til: Multiple recipients of <fsj-list-at-listserver.tehabi.com> > Emne: Hydraulic Winch > Dato: 16. januar 1997 07:42 > > Zack Heisey <moosh-at-redrose.net> writes: > > >> Sorry for all you guys with slush boxes and QT's. <grin> << > > Hey Zack, the original Q-T has a PTO so phhhhhhbt :-) There is a catch. You > can't use the PTO and have low-range because the low-range unit mounts in the > PTO's hole. > Couldn't you take out the PTO through the low-range?? Frank Norway > -- Michael Baxter at 74172.1164-at-Compuserve.com > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter > From Reno, NV USA on 15-Jan-1997 > > !^NavFont01F000AMGeHGnHGDD8010 > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > To Unsubscribe send email to macjordomo-at-listserver.tehabi.com with the command > "unsubscribe FSJ-List" in the body of the message. > >[Back to Top]
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:31:18 -0800 (PST) From: john <john-at-> Subject: Re: 258 vs 360-2v ORIG MSG: ORIG MSG: How do you detune an engine for mileage?, Why do we change sparkplugs? so it ORIG MSG: runs better! This is what I was saying I did not under stand... When someone talks about detuning an engine, they usually refer to making it produce less power, or power at lower speeds. For instance, when I built that 3.8L to put in my Chevy Luv, I kinda got screwed up by the boys at stupid shop, I mean super shop, seems the salesman talked me out of my original plan to do an Edelbrock Performer setup for whatever lobes they push, can't remember now, Erson? Anyway, I told the guy I want an RV cam, I want it quick off the line, but optimized for economy. He assured me it was the same as the Edlebrock. Well, turns out the little Luv truck was a screamer... We're talking 0 to 60 times around 4 seconds with the 5.36 (?) gears. I "detuned" it a bit by dropping 4.10's in and lost a couple of seconds... Mileage wasn't too great, around 12 to 16 or so. It was awesome to drive, nothing around here could touch it. One 400 cu inch transam that had been humbled once would literally pull a U-turn and go the other way if he saw me in his rear view... Anyways, I figured I'd pressed the envelope of luck and grace and decided that I better dismantle it before I got a ticket or hurt someone... And, it just so happened around this time that I had acquired the 67 Wagoneer... Hmmmm... the 327 and 3speed were kinda tired... so, I figured what the heck... In the process, or somewhere along the way I figured out that the cam that was living within the 3.8L was a full race cam... oh.... So I sold that cam to a friend and finally got the edelbrock performer cam or was it an Engle, sheesh, anyway, it WAS an rv cam. It did quite well in the Wagoneer. 0 to 60 around 14 seconds, versus the stock 12 seconds. Mileage went from 10 -12 to 14 to 16... Still I wasn't happy with it, it still had drum brakes, large turning radius and so on.... that's when I found the little cherokee with the turbo diesel... and sold the 67 - it's still running around out here, the guy is quite happy with it. Anyways, long winded answer about detuning... Michael B. could probably provide a MORE concise answer. By detuning that v-6 I went from 12 mpg in a Luv to 14 mpg in a Wagoneer... roughly. What did the Luv weigh? I think about 3,100 lbs with the buick motor, vs. 4700 for the Wagoneer. Just a cam change, from Race to RV - lowered or detuned the motor for better economy... Now that's what I meant by detuning... There may actually be a correct definition... :) later, john[Back to Top]
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:36:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Louhg-at-aol.com
Subject: Re: 258 vs 360-2v
In a message dated 97-01-16 11:59:41 EST, you write:
<< have you driven a detuned 81? Old Blue is only rated at 129bhp... They
also lowered
him at the factory 1.5", put 2.72 gears and a spoiler on him... desperately
trying
to improve the fuel economy, I guess... he's even got Aluminum bumpers...
the 70's version of the 360 put out 170 plus hp... (not a quote, but a SWAG
-
scientific wild animal guess...) >>
her we go comparo
i-6 258
71-76 1bbl 110 hp-at-3500/195ftlb-at-2000
77-86 2 bbl 114 hp-at-3600/196ftlb-at-2000
v-8 360
72-84 2bbl 175 hp-at-4000/285-at-2400
73-79 4bbl 195 hp-at-4400/295-at-2900
85-86 2 bbl 144 hp-at-3200/280-at-1500
the October 1988 four wheeler has a great article on the 258,actually the
only one I ve seen
[Back to Top]Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:34:54 -0800 (PST)
From: john <john-at->
Subject: Re: 258 vs 360-2v
ORIG MSG:
ORIG MSG: FI is NOT natrually asperaited!!!
ORIG MSG:
ORIG MSG: > not horsepower killers. Look at my Saturn for instance. 125 HP from a
ORIG MSG: > 1.9 liter naturally aspirated engine loaded with emissions controls.
ORIG MSG:
ORIG MSG: Kenneth Wetherall
ORIG MSG: kenns-at-concentric.net
sure it is. all that means it doesn't have a turbo or supercharger...
nothing is pumping air INTO the motor, it just... well, you get the idea... :)
------------------------------------------------------------------
Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold...
--------------------------------------------------------------------
_________ _ _______ _ _ _
|_________| | /_______| | |_|_| John Meister
| _______|_| | ____|_| _ _ john-at-
| | | | / / | | | Snohomish, WA, USA
| |_|_ _ | \_\___ _ | | |
|______| | |________\ \ | | | http:
| ___|_| \____ | | _ _ | | | //www.
| | | \ | | | | | | | | /~john
| | | _____/ | | | | | | | |
|__| | |________| | | \_\_| | |
|__|_|ull |________/_/ize \______/_/eep . . . enthusiast.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Full Size Jeep Page Editor - Off-Road.com
81 Wagoneer Ltd (SJ) "Old Blue" (& 88 xj wgnr ltd)
http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/jeep/jeep.html (FSJ page coming soon...)
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[Back to Top]Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:36:46 -0800 (PST)
From: john <john-at->
Subject: Re: SIX CYLINDERs - and a DIESEL too!!! :)
ORIG MSG:
ORIG MSG: can we say NOISE!!
ORIG MSG:
ORIG MSG: > dreamin' of Diesels...
ORIG MSG: Kenneth Wetherall
ORIG MSG: kenns-at-concentric.net
exactly why I'm not desirious of a Cummins TD... The 6.2L is noisy,
but not as bad. The 6.5L TD is REALLY quiet. so it the new vw TDI,
but I doubt it would do much more for Old Blue then provide electric
power for the accessories... :)
later,
john
------------------------------------------------------------------
Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold...
--------------------------------------------------------------------
_________ _ _______ _ _ _
|_________| | /_______| | |_|_| John Meister
| _______|_| | ____|_| _ _ john-at-
| | | | / / | | | Snohomish, WA, USA
| |_|_ _ | \_\___ _ | | |
|______| | |________\ \ | | | http:
| ___|_| \____ | | _ _ | | | //www.
| | | \ | | | | | | | | /~john
| | | _____/ | | | | | | | |
|__| | |________| | | \_\_| | |
|__|_|ull |________/_/ize \______/_/eep . . . enthusiast.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Full Size Jeep Page Editor - Off-Road.com
81 Wagoneer Ltd (SJ) "Old Blue" (& 88 xj wgnr ltd)
http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/jeep/jeep.html (FSJ page coming soon...)
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