From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sat Oct 21 13:51:00 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Saturday, October 21 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1077 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [fsj: Do I have a Timing problem?] fsj: Re: serial number/vin help fsj: Re: Check out this SJ, John. fsj: Fwd: obscure eBay item fsj: huh? fsj: HURRY! Ebay NOS AMC 343 HI-PO ENGINE IN THE CRATE ! WOW ! fsj: Re: vin help for Mexico... Re: [fsj: Do I have a Timing problem?] Re: fsj: huh? Re: fsj: huh? fsj: Re: GW site fsj: Re: Thanks a million!!! FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:59:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: [fsj: Do I have a Timing problem?] Jeepnut wrote: >Jim Blair says the vac advance mechanism should have held vacumn when I applied the 18 to it so I guess I have to rebuild/replace the distributor... hope to get time to do some homework tonight... A: Just don't forget that you ALSO have a mechanical advance in the bottom! There are 2 springs and swinging weights in the dist that adjust your timing according to RPM. If the springs are weak from age, or one has even broken (seen a lot of those in almost 30 years of wrenching) then the timing curve won't match the motor's requirements. Hopefully this will catch Mike before he starts to rip apart his motor for rebuild :^) The other thing is 3 way timing chain kits set with the cam advanced will make your motor ping like crazy! Borrow a degree wheel, and check the opening and closing times of your valves compared to what they should be. A sloppy chain can affect the cam timing in the same way, because it climbs up the teeth and throws it all off. I check the cam timing cold and again hot before doing a chain that hasn't jumped, and compare to spec before deciding which keyway to use. I mostly run zero (if the cam wasn't ground slightly off synche), because it puts power in the low-midband, which is right for Jeep and the power apps I play with most of the time. Cam advance gives you WAAAY more bottom end, but you power out before midrange and cam retard gives you TONS of passing power, but pffft off the line (unless you gear right like I'm doing to Blackie ) Wish I was closer to Mike to set his rig up for him! PS: I may be working for PartsAmerica.com come monday! I took the UA today, and unless Depakote or Armour Thyroid are restricted drugs, I have a job! Michael Shimniok wrote: The 360 in Troubled Child wouldn't run on anything but 91 without ping and that was only after retarding the timing below factor specs. I tried running intake/fuel system cleaner thru it twice. Never tried the trick of dribbling water down the carb which is supposed help burn out the carbon deposits which contribute to ping. I think maybe Jim B suggested colder plugs too. Mine did its pinging only at part throttle. Rather odd. I wondered if there might not be something wrong with the vacuum advance or if there was a spot where the fuel/air mix was too lean. I had a 2150 also. Altho that same carb is on another truck which has NO sign of pinging like this. Another thing to check is the EGR to make sure it's working when it is supposed to and you could try the tech bulletin fix (basically removing the delay valve IIRC). This problem was a major PITA for me and I finally gave up and I'm going to do a motor rebuild. One thing I wanted to do but never did was hook a vac gauge up to the advance and run the hose into the cabin so I could read the gauge while driving to see if advance vac was peaking while it pinged. Michael ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 EFax:603-215-1688 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:52:07 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: serial number/vin help At 05:48 PM 10/19/00 -0400, you wrote: >John, >Here goes with the VIN, or serial as Kaiser has it. 1414 50348 is the >number I have. I also have the Paint as 229, and the trim as 183. >By the way, I have been reading some of your bible inserts on your site >and I have been finding it interesting. Just thought I would let you know. >Anyway, thanks again for your help. >Frank > 1414 50348 1414 = J100 (4 wheel drive) Station wagon, 4 door the 50348 indicates that it had the V8 327 Vigilante engine... and from what I can determine, it's prior to '68... somewhere between a 65 and a 67 based on the serial number. (the 50,000 and up indicate the Vigilante) hope this helps. I don't think my old sales brochures show the paint/interior codes... if you can describe the colors, I can tell you what the official names were... especially if you can tell me the year. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:55:22 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Check out this SJ, John. At 05:49 PM 10/20/00 -0700, you wrote: > http://www.davidallenracing.com/cherokee.htm > >Paul pretty nice... I like the spare carrier... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:16:05 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Fwd: obscure eBay item http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=470995920 >Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:15:26 -0700 (PDT) >From: "Paul W." >Subject: obscure eBay item >To: John Meister > >John, > >Thought you or one of your SJ buds might be interested... > >T/C output shaft cheap for 1980-1989 Jeep Cherokee,Wagoneer, J10 & J20 >NP219,228 & 229. > >NEW O.E.M. JEEP PART STILL IN THE BOX!!!! PART#J8130803 > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=470995920 - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 23:44:14 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: huh? >Heya, JeepNut - >[With apologies to the list if this is unusually long for this group. Let >me know...] > > Hi Mr. Pierson, >Crap! I didn't notice my Dad joining the list... gotta go say "hi." >: ) Ok, I'm in Digest mode... delayed action and all that... but I noticed this little segment and wondering what in the .... is going on. :) first off, no need to apologize for going long, especially when talking about Full Size Jeeps. :) If you veer from the topic then we might get a little bothered... ;) But if you're talking FSJ's, rock on... Now, Jeep Nut, I notice that the names ain't lining up on the Dad thing... unless my feeble memory has been corrupted and confused. Do explain. :) FWIW, my step dad had an FSJ before I did. he had a nice 2 door cherokee... I wasn't into 4x4's back then... I was still living in Europe and into the Autobahn experience. :) later, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:46:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: fsj: HURRY! Ebay NOS AMC 343 HI-PO ENGINE IN THE CRATE ! WOW ! A: Only a couple hours left! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=466082067 Plus: Fwd From: "Eddie Stakes" Subject: 80 AMX $400 Hi ya'll. I received a call from this fellow who I have dealt with before, real nice guy but could easily lose the yanqui accent, he lives on Long Island, and he has his 1980 AMX for sale. It is a 304V8 (yes, a V8 was not a option for 1980) and he said it is probably a parts car for someone, but need to move it. $400 and you can have a little dragcar, who knows. It it is a real 1980 AMX, that is the lowest production of all AMX models from 1968-74 and 77-80 with only 865 units made. Call for more info: Jimmy Bonti 631-345-5568 Long Island NY Thank God we are in basketball season Tell him Eddie stakes referred you also and thanks, good luck. AND!!!! People just missed out on a freshly rebuilt 401 in a '78 AMX (not orig) for $2,000 on Ebay too! ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 4.6L stroker and 4 speed auto on LPG EFax:603-215-1688 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=466082067 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:10:12 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: vin help for Mexico... email the vin to the fsj list. I know some of the guys have fords and might have manuals that can help. also, carfax might be able to help... not sure what they charge. john :) At 11:53 AM 10/21/00 -0500, Lic. Eduardo Néstor Reza Martínez wrote: >Hi John, this is Eduardo Reza from Torreón, MEXICO, recently a friend bought >a Bronco II 4X4 here in Mexico regularized but they have only a kind of >wrote which says that the original tittle was missed and he wants to know if >there is any form to get a copy from it, may be through the VIN of the >vehicle but we don't know how or where, if there is a place n the www could >be better and easier if you can help us please let me know, as always your >friend in the north of Mexico, > >Eduardo Reza >'84 Grand Wagoneer >Torreón, MEXICO > - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:56:16 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: Re: [fsj: Do I have a Timing problem?] Wow, thanks Jim, Tons of useful info in there. I have it out on the bench to see what's what. Oddly, the vac advance HOLDS vac sitting on the bench here. I can only conclude that I had a bad connection on the thing when I tested it running the other night. It surely DID leak right back down to 0 as soon as I stopped pumping it up the other night.... So the vac advance seems fine now. The springs however... there is one which is smaller in diameter with much heavier wire on one side and it is loose just sitting there. The other one is at least snug and holding the assembly to one stop. But it is a good bit larger in diameter, wound with much smaller wire. Doesn't sound normal to me. No springs available anywhere around here until Monday ... IF the dealer even has them. I've called every one of the parts stores in the local directory and everyone has said, ... A whut? Naw, man thats dealer stuff. I could call some speed shops in Memphis I guess since it's a Motorcraft dist. but I don't know how to match that stuff out of a Ford book and it's not likely they're showing a cross reference to the AMC 360 so I don't know what to ask for. Wish me luck at the dealership on Monday. Hope it's not a timing chain, I hope it's not a timing chain, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope its not a timing chain.... Aw, who am I kidding? It probably is the timing chain, what with 164K on it, wouldn't it be a miracle if it WASN'T worn out? Now tell me more about this 3 way timing chain kit? Never heard of this... Sounds like a gear with alternate keyways cut so you can just slip it on according to your requirement, Advance for holeshots, etc. Is that it? And did I get you right that they drug tested you for a job at a .com? Weird. That whole concept is totally Orwellian to me... Is it a telecommute type of thing? or maybe you have to go into a call center.... I'm curious... JeepNut James Blair wrote: > Jeepnut wrote: > >Jim Blair says the vac advance mechanism should have held vacumn when I > applied the 18 to it so I guess I have to rebuild/replace the > distributor... hope to get time to do some homework tonight... > > A: Just don't forget that you ALSO have a mechanical advance in the > bottom! There are 2 springs and swinging weights in the dist that adjust > your timing according to RPM. If the springs are weak from age, or one > has even broken (seen a lot of those in almost 30 years of wrenching) > then the timing curve won't match the motor's requirements. Hopefully > this will catch Mike before he starts to rip apart his motor for rebuild > :^) The other thing is 3 way timing chain kits set with the cam advanced > will make your motor ping like crazy! Borrow a degree wheel, and check > the opening and closing times of your valves compared to what they > should be. A sloppy chain can affect the cam timing in the same way, > because it climbs up the teeth and throws it all off. > I check the cam timing cold and again hot before doing a chain that > hasn't jumped, and compare to spec before deciding which keyway to use. > I mostly run zero (if the cam wasn't ground slightly off synche), > because it puts power in the low-midband, which is right for Jeep and > the power apps I play with most of the time. Cam advance gives you WAAAY > more bottom end, but you power out before midrange and cam retard gives > you TONS of passing power, but pffft off the line (unless you gear right > like I'm doing to Blackie ) > Wish I was closer to Mike to set his rig up for him! > > PS: I may be working for PartsAmerica.com come monday! I took the UA > today, and unless Depakote or Armour Thyroid are restricted drugs, I > have a job! > > Michael Shimniok wrote: > The 360 in Troubled Child wouldn't run on anything but 91 without ping > and that was only after retarding the timing below factor specs. I tried > running intake/fuel system cleaner thru it twice. Never tried the trick > of dribbling water down the carb which is supposed help burn out the > carbon deposits which contribute to ping. I think maybe Jim B suggested > colder plugs too. Mine did its pinging only at part throttle. Rather > odd. I wondered if there might not be something wrong with the vacuum > advance or if there was a spot where the fuel/air mix was too lean. I > had a 2150 also. Altho that same carb is on another truck which has NO > sign of pinging like this. Another thing to check is the EGR to make > sure it's working when it is supposed to and you could try the tech > bulletin fix (basically removing the delay valve IIRC). This problem was > a major PITA for me and I finally gave up and I'm going to do a motor > rebuild. One thing I wanted to do but never did was hook a vac gauge up > to the advance and run the hose into the cabin so I could read the gauge > while driving to see if advance vac was peaking while it pinged. > Michael > > ************************************* > JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 EFax:603-215-1688 > http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html > ************************************** - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:57:34 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: Re: fsj: huh? Oh just a reaction to my trait of using proper names when I address someone of new or short acquaintance. :-) Since I addressed the mail with Mr. Pierson.... Though my dad WAS a Jeeper. Had an '86 MJ with the little 4 pumper, but he outgrew it... ... and on a side note, IIRC in the Navy when a newbie calls you "sir" by mistake, an enlisted man's standard response is, "Don't call me sir, my parents were married." Squids are so witty. ;-) JeepNut john wrote: > >Heya, JeepNut - > >[With apologies to the list if this is unusually long for this group. Let > >me know...] > > > Hi Mr. Pierson, > >Crap! I didn't notice my Dad joining the list... gotta go say "hi." > >: ) > > Ok, I'm in Digest mode... delayed action and all that... but I noticed this > little segment and wondering what in the .... is going on. :) > > first off, no need to apologize for going long, especially when talking > about Full Size Jeeps. :) If you veer from the topic then we might get > a little bothered... ;) But if you're talking FSJ's, rock on... > > Now, Jeep Nut, I notice that the names ain't lining up on the Dad thing... > unless my feeble memory has been corrupted and confused. > > Do explain. :) > > FWIW, my step dad had an FSJ before I did. he had a nice 2 door cherokee... > I wasn't into 4x4's back then... I was still living in Europe and into > the Autobahn experience. :) > > later, > john > ------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > "The truth which makes men free is for the most part > the truth which men prefer not to hear." > ---Herbert Sebastian Agar > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------- - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:06:35 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: huh? At 03:57 PM 10/21/00 -0500, JeepNut wrote: > ... and on a side note, IIRC in the Navy when a newbie calls you "sir" by >mistake, an enlisted man's standard response is, "Don't call me sir, my >parents >were married." In the army the enlisted response was: "Don't call me sir, I work for a living... " :) > Squids are so witty. ;-) well, they're something... ;) > JeepNut - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:38:28 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: GW site thanx for the info. when I find my links page I'll put a link to your site. :) (I think it's the page with the links to the french connection, the french Cherokee site... with over 900 pages I often have trouble finding my own stuff... ;) john At 09:05 AM 10/21/00 -0400, schapiroworldwide wrote: >Thanks John, > >I usually sell them from $6500 to $9500 depending on the mileage and >condition. Most are in the $7000 range and have from 110K to 130K miles on >them. > >I strip the clearcoat problem and repaint as needed. Rear windows, wipers, >etc. are those problems that occur often and we have that under control. My >partner has been doing just this for over 20 years so the combined >experience is invaluable in choosing good ones. > >My customers are happy as clams. People like Wagonmaster have taken >advantage of many GW lovers and I do my best to save them from that fate. I >cannot go too far as yet so I usually stick to the east coast. > >I will include your link and thank you for the same. > >Saul Schapiro >www.grandwagoneers.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "john" >To: "schapiroworldwide" >Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 7:58 PM >Subject: Re: GW site > > > > I forwarded your note to a couple of FSJ lists. your link > > will show up on my server in the digests. > > > > I think I have a link page somewhere on my site, as soon as I > > find it I'll put a link there. > > > > you can use this image to link to Wagoneers.com: > > http://www.wagoneers.com/fsj-link.jpg > > > > what kind of prices do you usually charge? > > > > Do you deal with J10's at all? > > How far do you go for a GW? > > > > ttyl, > > john > > > > > > At 07:48 PM 10/20/00 -0400, you wrote: > > >I'm in Pennsylvania and I buy Grand Wagoneers, restore them and find them > > >homes. > > > > > >That's who and what I am. I love the GWs. > > > > > >If you check out my website you'll see. > > > > > >I'd appreciate a link at your site (I can do the same for you) so that > > >people interested in owning one can find them reasonably. > > > > > >Saul Schapiro > > >www.grandwagoneers.com > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "john" > > >To: "schapiroworldwide" > > >Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 5:35 PM > > >Subject: Re: GW site > > > > > > > > > > > > > > where are you? who are you? > > > > :) > > > > > > > > john > > > > > > > > At 04:56 PM 10/20/00 -0400, you wrote: > > > > >John, > > > > > > > > > >I restore Grand Wagoneers and find good homes for them nationwide. >Not > > > > >the expensive deal like Wagonmaster. > > > > > > > > > >Possibly you can include a link to my site on yours. > > > > > > > > > >www.grandwagoneers.com > > > > > > > > > >Lots of happy GW customers! > > > > > > > > > >Thanks, > > > > > > > > > >Saul Schapiro > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > > > > "The truth which makes men free is for the most part > > > > the truth which men prefer not to hear." > > > > ---Herbert Sebastian Agar > > > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > > > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > > "The truth which makes men free is for the most part > > the truth which men prefer not to hear." > > ---Herbert Sebastian Agar > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:41:08 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Thanks a million!!! 65 coincides with the Serial number. :) Wouldn't mind having the snow plow setup... but it only snows maybe three times a year here... :) last year only once... :( Most of these old FSJs have parts mixed and matched... john At 02:29 PM 10/21/00 -0400, you wrote: >John, > >Thanks for the help with the s/n. The old registration I have from the >previous owner says its a "65". I always wondered though due to the fact >that it has many features on it from a "68". The grille, side mirrors are >definitely not from a "65". It doesn't appear that it has ever been in a >accident. The frame is straight and true as far as I can tell. I wonder >though why someone would have replaced all the exterior items from a later >model year. I do know that some body work was done, but mostly with OEM >sheetmetal. I found a boneyard about a hour from my house that has quite a >few Kaiser and Willy's jeeps in it. I have started to part out the pieces >I need as I find them. I need all the emblems too. As far as the original >paint goes, The previous owner said it was a tan color before he had it >painted. I am only the 3rd owner and the last guy who had it put 3 grand >worth of work in to it, then let sit in his yard for 8 years until I >bought it with a Meyer plow for $400 bucks. Anyway, thanks for your help, >I am sure I will need much more of it in the future. > >Frank. > > >PS. Found a reprint of the service manuel with the 327 engine >supplement(original) for $58. Too much $$ or not bad? what do you think? - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1077 **************************