From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Oct 26 20:43:13 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, October 26 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1082 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] eGroups : Autozoners Re: fsj: tranny questions fsj: wooden carb spacer/adapter fsj: Fwd: gear ratios fsj: Re: Re: xj: pics of my XJ up! fsj: Re: tranny questions fsj: Re: tranny questions Re: fsj: tranny questions Re: fsj: Re: Re: xj: pics of my XJ up! Re: fsj: Re: Re: xj: pics of my XJ up! [fsj: tranny questions] Re: fsj: Re: xj: pics of my XJ up! fsj: PING fsj: ideas re PING Re: [fsj: Do I have a Timing problem?] FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:19:10 -0400 From: Jacob Goerlich Subject: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] eGroups : Autozoners I'm glad that they've created a forum for the employees. I knew it was only a matter of time before they decided to organize. After all, how many Saturdays could they spend trying to prominently display the "pretty colors" on the quarts of oil, all the while people are buzzing in the ears something about car parts. Something had to crack. carnuck-at-webtv.net wrote: > ************************************* > JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 EFax:603-215-1688 > http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html > ************************************** > > To Subscribe send an email to: 1FSJ-subscribe-at-egroups.com > To Unsubscribe send an email to: 1FSJ-unsubscribe-at-egroups.com Visit Our homepage: http://www.egroups.com/group/1FSJ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.egroups.com/group/Autozoners - -- Jacob Goerlich i79 Productions Administrator ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:59:53 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: tranny questions john said: {- I'm back from Cedar Rapids, Iowa... nice, clean, quiet town. The {- humidity was 100% all three days I was there... I'd forgotten about "muggy". {- Funny, it's 100% humidity here today, but about 10 degrees cooler and feels {- fine... when it does get warmer here it dries out quickly... unlike there. : {- ) Actually, the last few days has been probably the muggiest it's been all summer. It's been pretty dry here this year. And the temps have only been in the low 70s the last few days (at the warmest), so the humidity isn't even all that oppressive; just noticeable. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am orange peels. I am coffee grounds. I am wisdom. -- Madam Trash Heap - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:19:29 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: wooden carb spacer/adapter I wanted to put my Motorcraft 2150 back on my 360 while I had the Motorcraft 4350 sent off for diagnosis and repair. I didn't want to swap intakes. I couldn't buy an adapter that would work. I made an adapter out of 3/4" furniture quality birch plywood. The 2v sits over the large secondary holes on the intake. Seems to be working fine, but I still need to make a new throttle cable bracket. The 2150 still leaks more fuel than I'd like (that's why I swapped to the 4350) but seems to run ok. The piece of plywood is obviously a little damp with fuel. I doubt this is cause for concern since I drove around with the 2150 seeping like that for over a year. Just wondering if there is anything I may have overlooked with regard to wooden spacers and if any one has experience with the "store bought" kind. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:52:54 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Fwd: gear ratios got this question yesterday... I think the guy has an overdrive... I emailed him back but haven't heard from him. Anyone know what the final gear in the tranny of a bobtail might be? (at and mt) john >To: john-at-wagoneers.com >Subject: gear ratios >Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 23:34:29 -0600 (MDT) >From: Bryan.Q > > >I was reading and trying your formula to calculate gear ratio. I plugged in >all the information and came out with a different answer than I see the >speedometer reading. I have a '97 TJ Wrangler 4.0L 6 cylinder with 31x10.50 >tires and 3.73 gear ratio. At 2000 rpm I came up with the answer of about 50 >mph, but I my speedometer is reading about 65 mph or so, but not 50 mph. >Did I >do something wrong? What is wrong? Should I change my gear ratio so the car >will run better? > >thanks, >bryan - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 21:40:13 -0400 From: "Ray Drouillard" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: xj: pics of my XJ up! > I got stuck once overnight in Mission, BC, coming out of Davis lake > park out the end of Sylvester rd, in the winter of '78 while driving my > '66 Pontiac (6cyl 2 speed auto) along with my ex-wife (6 mo.s pregnant) > and my younger brother (16). > We left because the weather report said more snow was coming > (freezing rain by the time we got down to town), and I came back 2 weeks > later with a buddy from work (he was driving my old IH Travelall with > OHC 6 that had I regrets selling, but I needed tires for my race car). Jim, Why were you running the trails in an 2WD Pontiac when you had this monstrous 'binder sitting in your garage? Ray ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 21:46:48 -0400 From: "Ray Drouillard" Subject: fsj: Re: tranny questions > I can get a TF727 very reasonably and have an NP229 set aside for me by > a friend, and even have the driveshafts for the J10 already purchased from > ebay and sitting in a corner... > > How much am I gonna lose by going to an AT from my 5 speed in: Yah... go put that slush box in your truck! How much for the 5 speed? Ray ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:46:40 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: tranny questions At 09:43 PM 10/25/00 -0400, Ray Drouillard wrote: > > I can get a TF727 very reasonably and have an NP229 set aside for me by > > a friend, and even have the driveshafts for the J10 already purchased from > > ebay and sitting in a corner... > > > > How much am I gonna lose by going to an AT from my 5 speed in: > >Yah... go put that slush box in your truck! >How much for the 5 speed? >Ray In the back of my mind a little voice said as I posted that question, "you'll hear from Ray"... :) I saw the one post about the guy dying with the manual going uphill, and the guy dying with the Automatic on the downhill.... :) I'm looking forward to the next digest, should be interesting reading. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:58:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: tranny questions A: MAybe the little blurb I just sent you about the Nissan Turbo diesel 6 with auto in a Jeep Scout super cab (either IH or CJ10 from the base) will poke you the right way! BTW, it should be a 727 trans behind that unit (or AW4 23 spline like my Maxima had) John wrote: I'm back from Cedar Rapids, Iowa... nice, clean, quiet town. The humidity was 100% all three days I was there... I'd forgotten about "muggy". Funny, it's 100% humidity here today, but about 10 degrees cooler and feels fine... when it does get warmer here it dries out quickly... unlike there. :) Anyway, I'm thinking about shifting... I don't like it very much and am getting spoiled by the mercedes... problem is I have to sell it. I can get a TF727 very reasonably and have an NP229 set aside for me by a friend, and even have the driveshafts for the J10 already purchased from ebay and sitting in a corner... How much am I gonna lose by going to an AT from my 5 speed in: - - mpg? - - off the line performance? (actually starting out might be faster) - - top end? - - rpm on the highway( have 3.31's with 31x10.5s) - - durability? - - trail manners? Of course this is the perennial question of all 4x4dom.... slushbox or gearbox? The pluses and minuses on both sides are all valid... when my starter failed, I could bump start Superdawg and get home... can't do that with a slushbox... anyway, figured since I'm back I'd stir things up a bit. :) john ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 EFax:603-215-1688 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 23:06:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: xj: pics of my XJ up! A: Because I had ALREADY sold it! (guess that wasn't clear!) Ray wrote: Jim, Why were you running the trails in an 2WD Pontiac when you had this monstrous 'binder sitting in your garage? Ray       I got stuck once overnight in Mission, BC, coming out of Davis lake park out the end of Sylvester rd, in the winter of '78 while driving my '66 Pontiac (6cyl 2 speed auto) along with my ex-wife (6 mo.s pregnant) and my younger brother (16).       We left because the weather report said more snow was coming (freezing rain by the time we got down to town), and I came back 2 weeks later with a buddy from work (he was driving my old IH Travelall with OHC 6 that had I regrets selling, but I needed tires for my race car). Jim, Why were you running the trails in an 2WD Pontiac when you had this monstrous 'binder sitting in your garage? Ray ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 EFax:603-215-1688 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:23:25 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: xj: pics of my XJ up! On Wed, 25 Oct 2000, James Blair wrote: >-->A: Because I had ALREADY sold it! (guess that wasn't clear!) you need a proofreader... ;) or a real computer so you can see exactly what you're mailing... How's the Linux project going? :) john >-->Ray wrote: >-->Jim, >-->Why were you running the trails in an 2WD Pontiac when you had this >-->monstrous 'binder sitting in your garage? >-->Ray ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 02:34:56 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: [fsj: tranny questions] "MadMarx" writes: >> With a FSJ, you have room for a LONG drivetrain... << With one qualifier. Q-T equip'd Wags & Cherokees have the fuel tank right in the way of where a long drivetrain would extend. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 23:24:32 -0700 From: Paul & Megan Kershner Subject: Re: fsj: Re: xj: pics of my XJ up! McGiver... James Blair wrote: > > A: Man, you couldn't get me more than 100 feet off the beaten path w/o > at least a comealong and 100 feet of titanium chain! > I got stuck once overnight in Mission, BC, coming out of Davis lake > park out the end of Sylvester rd, in the winter of '78 while driving my > '66 Pontiac (6cyl 2 speed auto) along with my ex-wife (6 mo.s pregnant) > and my younger brother (16). > We had been down to the lake for a picnic, and the sun melted the > snow on the road we came in on. We were last to come out, and I couldn't > get up the hill in forward, so I backed all the way up the hill since > reverse gear was higher and didn't spin. (BTW, that trail to the lake > collapsed in a slide -at- '80) > The second to last guy was waiting at the top for us (took me a > little driving time to make sure I was going the right way) and as soon > as we rounded the last corner, he took off, leaving 4 deep iced up ruts. > I didn't know this of course, and I slowed down, since we were at the > top, and I figured we'd be out in no time. > Thump thump! No more movement! ^-at-^#%-at-^#-at-&&^!! Open the trunk, and > find my good jack, comealong, tire chains and shovel had taken a walk! > The tools we had? Tin snips, a hammer and a bag of sand plus some > motor tools and a spare can of gas (had most of a tank still left) and > the sun was going down, with the temps and only my ex had a jacket (glad > of that!) > We cleared around the tailpipe so the car could keep running w/o > poisonous CO exhausting us inside and we cut pieces out of the rear 1/4 > panels I was going to replace anyways, and made shovels with branches > and some muffler clamps. > Unfortunately, the temp dropped too fast and it all went to ice, so > we climbed back in the car to keep warm (I had a full box of Red Rose > tea and a cig lighter tea maker that I still have). I kept checking for > someone to pick up my CB signal, but a branch had bent my antenna and > the match was way off, so I could hear them, but not vice versa. > We did get to see a BEAUTIFUL sunrise across the lake and snowy peaks > the next AM (sunday, in GOD's country. picture a crater with a lake > surrounded by snow ), > We were just getting started on digging out, when a Jimmy with 12" > lift came up the road from below. Apparently, there was a snow fall on > the road coming in, and this guy was the ONLY one around that was able > to get in. (he was running a 427 and 40" Cooper Discoverers that I wish > I'd had) > He had my dad and father-in-law with him, and I wasn't sure if I was > going to get hugged or slugged! It's a good thing we had let them know > where we were going and stuck with the plan! > He tried to pull the car loose, but the ice packed into the frame had > frozen to the ground and it wouldn't budge. > We left because the weather report said more snow was coming > (freezing rain by the time we got down to town), and I came back 2 weeks > later with a buddy from work (he was driving my old IH Travelall with > OHC 6 that had I regrets selling, but I needed tires for my race car). > Lots of people had been around it (tire tracks from the big toys) and > the only thing done to the car was an empty beer can on the antenna! > Sure couldn't do that nowadays! I'd have come back to a burnt, > stripped hulk most likely! > I jumped in, twisted the key, and it fired right up. I brought along > a coal oil forced air heater from the paint shop (still have it in my > garage) and AC/DC power adapter, hooked it up, and had all the snow > within 10 feet of the car melted in 10 minutes. Threw all the stuff in > the trunk as soon as the heater cooled, and we were on our way! > He was surprised that I went ahead of him leaving, and made better > time coming out of there than he did! The drifts were nearly fender top > high that I was ploughing through too! > I sure want to get to work on Blackie and have it ready to go before > the snow! (it'll be easier to drive to my next place than tow too!) > Tomorrow I have to dig through the paper looking for a CHEAP moving > van to put my garage full of stuff in. (doesn't even have to run right > now. I plan to go to the flea market with it in spring so there is no > hurry) > Oh, yeah! I knew there was something to all this I was forgetting! If > you have a tow chain or rope, etc but no winch. IF there is a tree close > by you can hook behind you, you can wrap the rope around your tire like > a yoyo, use vise grips on the ebrake of the other side if it's hanging > in the air, and use that for a winch. I've taken tires off the rim of > clunkers down on the farm to pull myself out of some nasty spots winch > style, where I didn't dare get the 4WD tractor too close to! (too heavy > and it would have sunk out of sight!) > Speaking of sunk, there's the time some idiot parked off the side of > the Alska highway in summer with a D9 on his truck, but that's another > thing altogether! > > Doug Wright > Yes, the thought did cross my mind ... at least a few times ... in my > two days there :) And no, I wasn't contemplating whether I would > prefer a Warn or Milemarker ... I would have been glad to have anything > at that point. I do plan on getting one probably sometime next year > though. At least I carry a shovel now. I did have a rope and tow strap > which didn't do much good ... I just wasn't able to move the jeep using > brute strength :) And I think my bottle jack saw more use than most see > in a lifetime. I cranked that thing up and down until it felt like my > arms were going to fall off! > Doug > > ************************************* > JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 EFax:603-215-1688 > http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html > ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 06:57:09 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: PING Hi all, I tried getting some info on this kit from Mike at Specialty Parts. He seemed to recall that a couple of years ago he did this homework only to find that the parts/kit had been discontinued or were otherwise no longer available. Anyone else think different? I'm driving with a vac gauge hanging over the visor for a couple of days to monitor things.... and she pings on -tho only slightly and briefly now at major throttle transitions,.... with a tank fulla good stuff and 10 degrees timing and if I drive it nice. romping on it a little will chatter it right up sometimes, but not always... weird.... I keep wondering about that chain.... JeepNut bradley.a.berry-at-lmco.com wrote: > Pinging with these vehicles is a common problem. So much so, that Jeep released it's own cure for the problem. They put out a special combination of EGR equipment which eliminates the pinging problem. I can't remember the part number for the kit, but it has floated over the list once or twice. Your jeep dealer should carry this. > > > Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:43:28 -0500 > > From: JeepNut > > > > Hi group, > > Now that the Wag seems to have fully recovered from it's narcolepsy I > am > > in the pursuit of ping. To briefly rehash for those fortunate enought not > > to have to have lived with my nightmare all summer.... > > The 2150 carb is rebuilt and all vacumn lines replaced while I chased > > other problems all summer. Fuel pump is <6mo old. Truck has had $1800 > > worth of parts bestowed upon it over the last year, mostly new electrical > > stuff recently, ECU, wires, plugs, wiring, etc. 164,000 miles now. Timing > > chain is original AFAIK. bradley.a.berry-at-lmco.com wrote: > Pinging with these vehicles is a common problem. So much so, that Jeep released it's own cure for the problem. They put out a special combination of EGR equipment which eliminates the pinging problem. I can't remember the part number for the kit, but it has floated over the list once or twice. Your jeep dealer should carry this. > > > Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:43:28 -0500 > > From: JeepNut > > > > Hi group, > > Now that the Wag seems to have fully recovered from it's narcolepsy I > am > > in the pursuit of ping. To briefly rehash for those fortunate enought not > > to have to have lived with my nightmare all summer.... > > The 2150 carb is rebuilt and all vacumn lines replaced while I chased > > other problems all summer. Fuel pump is <6mo old. Truck has had $1800 > > worth of parts bestowed upon it over the last year, mostly new electrical > > stuff recently, ECU, wires, plugs, wiring, etc. 164,000 miles now. Timing > > chain is original AFAIK. - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 06:57:57 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: ideas re PING Hi all, I was doing some reading tonight and stumbled on a paragraph which says that a badly leaking exhaust system can cause ping as the backpressure is too low to let the EGR system work properly and this can cause ping.... As I am nearly always gnawing on the bone moneywise, the last time my muffler rotted off, it got a $30 exhaust job and well, that means past the head pipe, just a glaspak and a 2.5" short pipe. So I suppose you don't get much less backpressure than that. Any opinions about whether this could cause some ping problems like I've been having lately? It seems odd, maybe someone can explain... I seem to hear folks talking about 2.5 and 3" pipe with these "flowmaster" "super-free-flowing" blah, blah, so.... do those running these super open exhausts trade this for ping? Obviously not, so what piece of the puzzle am I missing to understand this? I did some homework and think I understand right that under heavy throttle with the engine warm, the EGR opens to let exhaust gases back into the burn path, right? Can someone explain why that keeps preignition at bay? Sorry to be so "technical" but I really gotta get this stopped or my pistons could be toast if I understand THAT correctly.... Thanks everyone! JeepNut - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 06:59:47 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: Re: [fsj: Do I have a Timing problem?] Hi Michael and groupies at large! Well I did it. I've got a vacumn gauge hanging over my visor now for a couple of days and it has been interesting. I've connected a T at the distributor vac advance port...for now... I THINK all is normal, but it works backward from what I thought. So since my thinking is reversed MOST of the time, I guess that makes it about right. What I see is this: 17-18 psi at cold start, high idle This drops to 11-12 lbs as I kick the idle down to lower step, As we get down to 600 curb idle, the vac shows about 7-8 lbs. Then as the CTO valve reaches some hotter temp, you see the plunger start to move, the vac drops down then from 7-8lbs to 0 and it stays at 0 at idle. Then with a warm running wag, vac pulls up from 0, into drive, and starting down the driveway, the vac varies with the throttle to as high as 17 lbs as I am pulling up the drive, then as I accelerate from 0-45 over an 1/8 mile or more the vac pulls down to 8-10 lbs. If I give it say 3/4 throttle or better, I can get the vac down to about 3-5 lbs max. But then as I ease up on the throttle and level off, the vac works back up quickly from 5 to 12-13 lbs and we're cruisin'. Runs 12-13 lbs vac on a flat open 45-50 cruise, and it runs up to about 17-18 lbs as I just barely ease up on the throttle at 45-50 mph. Then Off the throttle to slow for a stop, and the vac drops to 0 immediately. Funny, but I though I would see the vac gauge pull MORE vacumn when I push on the accelerator. But it goes DOWN to as low as 3-5 lbs at a floored throttle from a 20 mph roll. Shouldn't the vac advance be getting MORE vac at throttle? So my timing ADVANCES? How can it when the vac is LESS? Thanks for your ideas. Many more days of vacumn monitoring to come... Different port, different day... <> JeepNut Michael Shimniok wrote: > The 360 in Troubled Child wouldn't run on anything but 91 without > ping and that was only after retarding the timing below factor specs. > I tried running intake/fuel system cleaner thru it twice. Never > tried the trick of dribbling water down the carb which is supposed > help burn out the carbon deposits which contribute to ping. I think > maybe Jim B suggested colder plugs too. Mine did its pinging only > at part throttle. Rather odd. I wondered if there might not be > something wrong with the vacuum advance or if there was a spot where > the fuel/air mix was too lean. I had a 2150 also. Altho that same > carb is on another truck which has NO sign of pinging like this. > Another thing to check is the EGR to make sure it's working when it > is supposed to and you could try the tech bulletin fix (basically > removing the delay valve IIRC). This problem was a major PITA for > me and I finally gave up and I'm going to do a motor rebuild. One > thing I wanted to do but never did was hook a vac gauge up to the > advance and run the hose into the cabin so I could read the gauge > while driving to see if advance vac was peaking while it pinged. > > Michael > > > Now, when I transition the throttle for instance making a turn on a > > country road, throttle up and it shifts to second THEN chatters for several > > seconds as the speed builds. If I letup on the throttle, the chatter > fades. > > > > or > > Going up a slight incline or small hill it chatters under throttle. > > Sounds like timing right? > > I have fiddled and farted and adjusted the timing till I am blue in the > > face, but this truck will NOT run without chatter unless I have Premium > fuel > > in it. I've been using Premium for years in the thing as it has acted like > > this for quite some time. But it is getting too expensive to put the good > > stuff in all the time. > > All I hear is that I'm a moron for using premium fuel. The truck > > doesn't need hi-test, it was designed to burn regular. blah, blah, blah, > I'm > > telling you right now that I DARE not put regular in that thing or it > > wouldn't last 50 miles. > > So what is the deal here? Any ideas? > > Checked vacumn advance on the distributor and the timing shift smoothly > > in response to vacumn added manually at the distributor. But the vacumn > > isn't "held". You can pump it down, but it comes right back to 0. > > Guessing this is proper operation of the vacumn advance mechanism. > > Vac at the manifold is 18 at idle, up to 22 at 1500-2000. > > Vacumn responds to throttle nicely. or seems to, to me. > > Now watching vacumn TO the distributor vacumn advance, from the CTO > > valve, it responds also > > to the throttle on a warm engine. I think that is good. > > Idling up to 1500 RPM, goes from 0-8 lbs. > > Idling up to 2000-2500 RPM it goes up from 8 -15 and holds there with > > the throttle. > > > > So I finally had a new idea... MAYBE I am setting the timing wrong. > > Now for me to put a timing light on the mark, I have to hold the light > > up against the upper left side of the radiator tank and aim down in between > > the brackets from there. This DOES cause an angular displacement of the > > mark against the marker. So the questions are... > > > > Do you set the timing according to the mechanics angle of view? > > or > > Do you try to correct for this displacement by setting the timing a little > > retarded compared to what you "see" so that if viewed straight on, it would > > be right? > > > > If the latter, I have probably have had the timing set 3-5 degrees too > > hot. > > > > So I finally set the timing so that it looks like about 7degrees viewed > > from "the mechanics angle" and assume that is running it at about 10 if > > viewed from an unobstructed front-on view. So 10 is a little retarded, it > > should run kinda doggy and does, but it shouldn't chatter with the timing > > slightly retarded, (or am I out to lunch on this), and it STILL pings... > > Say your running about 45-50, on a paved county road, come up on a > > significant 90degree turn, slow to about 30, keep on the throttle through > > the curve, accelerating now and chatter chatter, (just lighter now than > > before and less duration) as you go through 35-40+ and then just as you > > start to even off the throttle she quiets down.... > > Why does this thing "ping" nearly all the time with anything less that > > ETHYL? [now that'll tell my age ;-) ] > > JeepNut > > -- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > '87 Street Comanche #24/100 > > '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... > > '92 Cherokee > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > --- > Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net > "For every complex problem, there is a solution that > is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1082 **************************