From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon May 21 08:08:49 2001 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Sunday, May 20 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1323 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Re:frames Re: fsj: Selec-trac 4wd not engaging...no sound when flipping lever Re: fsj: E=IR Re: fsj: Re:frames Re: fsj: Re:frames fsj: today fsj: POTD - Picture Of The Day fsj: Re: Fender extenders (non FSJ) fsj: R12 alternatives fsj: Vacuum problem! fsj: Re: Restoration Books fsj: Re: Jeep fsj: I can't believe it... fsj: Re: R12 alternatives fsj: Re: R12 alternatives fsj: of Xj's and Sj's... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 11:58:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re:frames A: Hmmm..... So this was Chrysler domestic vs Chrysler import huh? From: Alexander Wall     I've driven and worked on Saabs for 12+ years, and they are astonishingly sturdy cars. The pre-Chrysler (1993 and earlier) have a good 700lbs on any comparable american car, and the engineering is designed for survival. The kid probably would have been in real trouble, had he gotten in front of a 50mph SUV, but if it were tested, we all might be surprised at how well a Saab stood up to an M715! Just my $0.02 worth!     By the way, I don't really like Saabs (just got rid of the last one I will ever drive), I just have to respect the structural quality. Alexander Wall Spokane, WA 84 Wagoneer "Lucky" ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:07:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Selec-trac 4wd not engaging...no sound when flipping lever A: Check the black vacuum ball under the hood (after seeing if vacuum is coming to the switch. It may be plugged with crud) I found the glovebox switch from a QT in my collection of stuff the other day! From: Dan Black bobandkara-at-juno.com said: {- My selec-trac 4wd decided not to engage today. Usually, when i flip the {- lever, it makes an air sound, like opening up a soda. No sound now. Is {- something disconnected? Everybody in unison now: "It's a vacuum problem!" No, that isn't intended to sound hostile at all; that's just a standard response to MANY problems with Jeeps. In your case, I'm fairly sure a vacuum hose or two goes right to the little box under the dash with the 4wd lever on it. See if one pulled off (and, of course, put it back on if appropriate -- if so, that's probably the problem). Otherwise, it's probably still a vacuum problem, but elsewhere -- others on the list might be able to help better with those. (I've messed a little more with the vacuum hoses dealing with the intake system and the emissions than with the 4wd switch.) - - - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --   I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me.                                          ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:14:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: E=IR A: The power waiting after it passes through the flasher is constant. Adding more bulbs increases ground, which speeds up the flashing, but you are correct that a worn out flasher will heat up quicker (I have cannibalized and squeezed several to make the work again when I didn't have the $$ to buy a new one) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: flasher problem A: Put into the simplest terms: More ground equals faster flash because the element heats that much faster! excuse me but I'm rather confused... I thought more current flow would cause the elements to heat up faster... E=IR and Kirchoff's (not Kershner mind you) Law notwithstanding I don't think more ground will have much effect... ;)   unless of course you had a bad ground to begin with, in which case you need to clean your contacts. :) (no, no, not the one's you're wearing, get you finger out of your eye... :) If you have good connections all the way through the system your total resistance in the circuit goes down and total current goes up, seeing as how they are inversely proportional and all...   that also means the as the current increases the thing heats up faster, working faster... As far as the flasher itself,   P=IE where P=power in watts (heat if you will) and I=current and E=voltage (electromotive force). So, if Current goes up and voltage remains constant then power goes up. Basically, the bimetallic strip gets warm faster and opens more quickly. IF you're flasher is going fast without a load, it's tired and should be replaced... :) john ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:16:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re:frames I was going by Alex's saying Chrysler owned them at the time that one was built. From: RFISCHEL-at-osc.state.ny.us Last time I looked, Slob is owned by GM.                                          Carnuck2-at-webtv.net wrote: A: Hmmm..... So this was Chrysler domestic vs Chrysler import huh? From: Alexander Wall     I've driven and worked on Saabs for 12+ years, and they are astonishingly sturdy cars. The pre-Chrysler (1993 and earlier) have a good 700lbs on any comparable american car, and the engineering is designed for survival. The kid probably would have been in real trouble, had he gotten in front of a 50mph SUV, but if it were tested, we all might be surprised at how well a Saab stood up to an M715! Just my $0.02 worth!     By the way, I don't really like Saabs (just got rid of the last one I will ever drive), I just have to respect the structural quality. Alexander Wall Spokane, WA 84 Wagoneer "Lucky" ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:20:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Alexander Wall Subject: Re: fsj: Re:frames Oops - my bad! I meant GM. Alex - --- jim blair wrote: > I was going by Alex's saying Chrysler owned them at the time that one > was built. > > From: RFISCHEL-at-osc.state.ny.us > > Last time I looked, Slob is owned by GM. >                                          > Carnuck2-at-webtv.net wrote: > A: Hmmm..... So this was Chrysler domestic vs Chrysler import huh? > From: Alexander Wall >     I've driven and worked on Saabs for 12+ years, and they are > astonishingly sturdy cars. The pre-Chrysler (1993 and earlier) have a > good 700lbs on any comparable american car, and the engineering is > designed for survival. The kid probably would have been in real trouble, > had he gotten in front of a 50mph SUV, but if it were tested, we all > might be surprised at how well a Saab stood up to an M715! Just my $0.02 > worth! >     By the way, I don't really like Saabs (just got rid of the > last one I will ever drive), I just have to respect the structural > quality. > Alexander Wall > Spokane, WA > 84 Wagoneer "Lucky" > > ************************************* > JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche > http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 > ************************************** Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 17:15:52 -0400 (EDT) From: David Charles Gedraitis Subject: fsj: today So anyway today, as the head is off and in the shop for a while, as well as the radiator being off getting boiled, I figured it'd be a good time to do some stuff that I normally wouldn't do as it would stop me from driving my daily driver. (It was a loooong walk to the machine shop with a head in my hands-got some stares but unfortunately no one could give me a ride, and i'm too cheap (poor?) to pay for a taxi.) I removed the hood, fenders (inner and outer), hinges and took all the other components that had to come off to let me remove the head (read everything that can be bolted onto an engine) into my shop. I cleaned everything up, then cleaned up the frame and tomorrow I will take care of the block and firewall. All the sheet metal parts are going to be coated in POR 15 (great stuff) as soon as it comes in the mail, and the engine components have all been meticulously cleaned and painted a nice glossy black. I do have some site space and a digital cam so at some point I'm going to post all this stuff. Should be nice-going to look like new under the hood :^) From the looks of the cylinders, things on the lower end are in great shape-no lip around the tops of the cylinders, and the head is just getting resurfaced and a normal valve job. Should run nice :^) At this rate, it might even make it to Ouray. By the end of the week (not this one) it should be all put back together and looking good-all that'll leave is the underside from the firewall back, and the interior, not to mention a nice paint job. I'm thinking I like the May M-715 in the calendar, so it's going to look like that if I can manage to put a halfway-decent paint job on it. Oh well-nice to have a break from school to do the fun stuff. Take care, ~dave in cloudy massachusetts '67 Kaiser M-715 '61 Chrysler Newport '55 Chrysler Windsor Wagon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 14:16:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: POTD - Picture Of The Day A: Warning! Some of the other links on are offensive to many people, but this page pretty much sums up how the gas companies view us! http://www.geocities.com/wilddogsworld/potd22.htm http://www.geocities.com/wilddogsworld/potd22.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 14:32:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: Fender extenders (non FSJ) A: Don't know if they have a webpage, but I used to get parts from Cadillac Ranch. (The steering box fits FSJs)    From: Roy Kesmodel Hi all, Sorry about the non-FSJ message, but I thought that with the wide knowledge base available on this list (stroke, stroke), someone would be able to help. My son has acquired a 1979 Cadillac Coupe DeVille as a graduation present from his Granddad. Runs great and looks good except for some cosmetics. One of those is the deteriorating 'fender extenders'. I am referring to the painted rubber that fills in the spaces between the front and rear fenders and the bumpers. I am searching for a source. I have tried J.C Whipme, but they said they don't have them and can't get them. Is 'fender extender' the proper term? Maybe I'm not asking for the correct item. Any help greatly appreciated. Oh, BTW, he has parked it beside my '82 FSJ Cherokee Laredo 'Tank' (mandatory FSJ content :-)). Roy '82 FSJ Cherokee Laredo 'Tank' '79' Olds Toronado 'Old Whitey' '83' Buick Regal Estate Wagon 'Brick' {recently deceased} ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 16:42:08 -0500 From: "Landon Tesar" Subject: fsj: R12 alternatives Hi, this, I've discovered, is a nasty subject. >From the EPA: http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/snap/macssubs.html Rather good perspective of alternate refrigerants. I'm annoyed by most of it, but really question that the formulation of HC-12a (flammable) that can be shipped in US(6oz. cans) is ok to be used in Canada and some US states, but illegal unless you first change from R12 to R134a. There is really no justification for this that I can tell. Has anyone studied this in more detail, also in terms of the performance improvement claimed by the alternates? e.g. http://www.tcbmanufacturing.com Note the very careful wording... - - Landon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:20:05 -0500 From: "Landon Tesar" Subject: fsj: Vacuum problem! > Subject: Re: fsj: Selec-trac 4wd not engaging...no sound when flipping lever > > Hi, I had something like this happen. My wag is an '89. The plastic hoses (tubes) get hard and brittle. they will snap easily in your fingers. The Jeep dealer can order you a kit that gives you pre-bent tubes and the rubber fittings, and pretty colors (good idea) that go between the engine compartment and the switch for about $20. Otherwise, NAPA has these tubes in 3' straight sections-black, though they're a little higher than you might think ($8 for 2 ?) Hard to say where your break is. If it's between the engine compartment and the switch, it's not too bad to snake these through under your dash, unscrew the switch, and reconnect. - - Landon '89 GW ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 00:34:11 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Restoration Books well... there's a number of books that might help, the factory service manual being the main one... I'm working on a book on FSJ's, but I don't think I will include part number information as that changes too often. Part numbers seem to become obsolete rather quickly. :) I'll pass this along to some FSJ lists to see if anyone else has a suggestion. john At 08:47 PM 5/18/01 -0400, Robb Hurst wrote: >John, > >I'm new to Jeep Grand Wagoneers and have just bought a 86. I love it >already and wanted to start working on restoring it. Do you know a good >source for a parts catalogs (I have done a MGB and had several catalogs >with just MGB stuff in it)? I'm also looking for a book that can give me >a lot of detail about how to go about restoring (again..like my MGB). > >Thanks, > >Robb Hurst - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 00:35:17 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Jeep sounds like you showed them... ;) john At 09:43 PM 5/18/01 -0500, Derek Burkhalter wrote: >Hi joh I have follwed you all over the net. I love old blue he rocks. I >have just got done rreading your story about the snow cool. I have a 1976 >Jeep J-10 with a built 360 init and open axles for and aft.I pulled a >stump of a oak tree out with my truck this after noon the tree was >aproximatley 4 ft in diameter and not all roots had bee cut as I was told >they were but I lock the beast in low dropped her in fisrt tightned the >chain and mashed the throttle and took aliilte bit to get it out (about 2 >hrs) but by the last jerk we had the neighbors linedd up like kids at the >Ice cream truck in 105 degree weather. I blipped the throttle on last time >she jerked free and was was the man the neighbors allsaid I din't think >you old loud junk could do that . but I said to them it is a jeep that is >what they are supposed to do. By the way I have lifted it 3 " and puthe >the 360 back in bored it 60 obob and put bigger valvers in it prtoed and >polished it is now cranking out 400 hp with 475 toque. OOOH OOOG >OOOH OOOG. keep them comming . I love you web site. I would like to talk >to you again. Cape Girardeau,Mo >Thank You > Derek M Burkhalter - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 09:31:10 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: I can't believe it... got a call from an auction company, they expect to get the little wagoneer... here I thought the insurance company had reduced my buy-back amount because they didn't have to pay storage... seems that the gal I had been working with didn't do the paperwork, her assistant did... so I decided that it's not worth it to fight 'em or spend the $1045 to buy it back, the motor wasn't worth that much to me... no one seemed interested in the axles at anywhere near what I needed to recover... so I'm going to put the parts back on the little wag I removed and prep it for pickup... talked to my buddy who's working on the panel, we're going to use the T-5 from the J10 on the Panel and keep the 232. My son decided he wants to use it that way anyway, so everyone is happy. My son is happy, my wife is happy, the insurance company appears happy, the auction company... ;) I'm also going to have the swap on the J10 done while I'm gone to hawaii... it's worth it... I'm too busy to deal with it right now. :) so, I've got to go and reassemble the little wagoneer now... :) LW, the benz and the fairlane will sell soon and we'll actually be able to turn around in the driveway again. :) later, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 10:51:59 -0700 From: Pat Hines Subject: fsj: Re: R12 alternatives Check out http://www.freeze12.com/ There are iothers. Pat Landon Tesar wrote: > > Hi, > > this, I've discovered, is a nasty subject. > > >From the EPA: > http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/snap/macssubs.html > > Rather good perspective of alternate refrigerants. I'm annoyed by most > of it, but really question that the formulation of HC-12a (flammable) > that can be shipped in US(6oz. cans) is ok to be used in Canada and some > US states, but illegal unless you first change from R12 to R134a. There > is really no justification for this that I can tell. > > Has anyone studied this in more detail, also in terms of the performance > improvement claimed by the alternates? > > e.g. http://www.tcbmanufacturing.com > > Note the very careful wording... > > - Landon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 11:01:14 -0700 From: Pat Hines Subject: fsj: Re: R12 alternatives Here's another: http://www.autofrost.com/peoples/ghg/ghg.html and the EPA list of acceptable alternatives: http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/snap/lists/mvacs.html Pat ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 00:47:48 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: of Xj's and Sj's... The day started out with 1 FSJ and 3 XJ's in my driveway. By mid day there were 1 FSJ and 4 XJ's in my driveway. at midnight there are NO FSJ's and 4 XJ's in my driveway... and I have 2 FSJ's 80 miles south of here... ( fsj-83 j10, xj's=96 2dr parts, 88 wag totalled, 2001 xj rental, 4th = '87 cherokee) The plan was to use the little wagoneer's driveline in the '67 Panel. Got home late Friday and had a message, "we're from the auction company and need to pick up an '88 Wagoneer". Oh crud. Thinking about giving them $1,045 for the little wagoneer after unsuccessfully trying to sell the axles with an engine that is somewhat tired... I decided, no, I'll live with the mistake... :) A good friend is going to do the swap on SuperDawg for me. He came over this evening and we pulled the '96 4.0L engine and put it and the '96 AW4 tranny in the bed and he headed south with all the parts... I'll drive his car down to his place tomorrow. He's also working on the Panel. Since the LW deal caved in I decided to use the T-5 from the '83 J10 in the '67 J100 Panel. The NP208 may go in one or the other... waiting to hear from another friend on an NP219. I know there were a number of folks hovering over that T-5... including my son who wanted to put it in his Fairlane even... I liked the tranny, but shifting bothers by back... so it'll be nice to have it in the Panel... solved a big problem on the transmission for the 232 on the Panel. I'm leaning toward putting the NP219 (new Quadratrac) in SuperDawg and my NP208 into the Panel. The main reason is because the J10 is light in the back end and with the HO motor I may end up with a traction problem. :) I didn't want to deal with the driveline stuff but I have a set of driveshafts from another J10 that has either selectrac or the quadratrac... can't remember... The issue now is getting another 23 spline transfer case that doesn't have a slip yoke setup... I hope the NP219 is still available... The '96 xj is almost ready to get hauled away. I have to pull the wiring inside, one more seat and then call a hulk hauler... after I pull the wheels. :) The little wagoneer will probably leave monday. It'll tempt me with it's good trans and xfr case all weekend, it'll point to the core units sitting right next to it... tempting me to make the swap... ;) but I'm resisting... :) The little green rental cherokee goes away on Wednesday... my wife really likes it... oh, the little navy '87 Cherokee was the fourth XJ today... nice and clean, runs well... Added a hitch and swapped the hatch cylinders... later, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1323 **************************