From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Jun 11 09:44:40 2001 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, June 11 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1342 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: GC's fsj: GC's fsj: The GC Article fsj: Re: GC's fsj: Re: GC's fsj: RE: Non FSJ- XJ Stereo RE: fsj: Non FSJ- XJ Stereo Re: fsj: RE: Non FSJ- XJ Stereo fsj: Re: Vacuum delays.. fsj: Re: GW tailgate fsj: ZJ's fsj: My Jeeps fsj: 0 to 60 mph fsj: Durango Re: fsj: ownership experiences... :) FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 19:23:57 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: GC's >Subject: fsj: Grand Cherokee >John- >Have you considered a early model GC? not even for a second. don't like the ZJ at all. would rather have an XJ or an SJ before I even thought about a ZJ. the ZJ reminds me of a chrysler mini-van... looking at some of the ZJ's after looking a WJ and you wonder if it's even made by the same company. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 22:55:47 -0400 From: mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net Subject: fsj: GC's Actually the designer of the ZJ was contracted in 1986 by AMC to replace the cherokee. His design is nearly identical to the ZJ I'll Try to find the article for you ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 23:03:26 -0400 From: mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net Subject: fsj: The GC Article John- It was actually easier to find than I thought I used the National Library Index There used to be a picture of the designer and his design but I couldn't locate it I cut this from the article: Title: Design debate: who's the father of the Jeep Grand Cherokee?. Source:Ward's Auto World v. 34 (Mar. 1998) p. 120-1 Journal Code: Wards Auto World Additional Info: United States Standard No:ISSN: 0043-0315 Details:il por. Language: English Abstract:Part of a special section on global engineering presents an account of the dispute surrounding designer Larry Shinoda's claim to be the creator of the Jeep Grand Cherokee. Shinoda was one of three designers contracted by American Motors Corp.(AMC), which was acquired by Chrysler Corp. in 1987, to design and construct a clay model of the vehicle then called the XJC. According to Shinoda, after he was removed from the project and told to dispose of his clay model, an AMC crew entered his design studio and removed his drawings and wood templates. Shinoda, who said that his contract called for a payment of $345,000 but that he received only $135,000, did not raise the issue until, at the 1992 North American International Auto Show, he saw the Grand Cherokee and spotted it as a duplicate of his own 1985 design. He then hired a lawyer and requested a share of the profits of the over 1 million Grand Cherokees sold. Just before Shinoda died of heart failure in November 1997, ! a settlement was negotiated for an undisclosed sum, believed to be over $200,000. SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Sport utility vehicles -- Design. Jeep Cherokee (Automobile). Named Person: Shinoda, Larry. Named Corp: Chrysler Corp. -- Suits and claims. SIC Code: 3711 Record Type: article Article Type: feature article Accession No: BBPI98028192 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 23:34:22 -0400 From: mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net Subject: fsj: Re: GC's I Was at the Jeep Lot today And I Agree With you WJ Is Better I Looked at the Liberty too, I Really don't like that thing Mike john wrote: > > that's ok... :)  I still don't like them. :) > > The WJ is so much nicer. :) > > john > > At 10:55 PM 6/9/01 -0400, you wrote: > >Actually the designer of the ZJ was contracted in 1986 by AMC to replace > >the cherokee. His design is nearly identical to the ZJ I'll Try to find > >the article for you > ------------------------------------------------------ >              http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >   Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >       jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 20:41:11 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: GC's At 11:34 PM 6/9/01 -0400, mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net wrote: >I Was at the Jeep Lot today And I Agree With you WJ Is Better >I Looked at the Liberty too, I Really don't like that thing > >Mike >john wrote: > > that's ok... :) I still don't like the ZJs. :) > > > The WJ is so much nicer. :) The thought did cross my mind when I saw what the price on the Liberty was to sell the WJ and get a new Liberty... there's almost enough price difference to make it work out... I should go look at them. Shoot, if I can get Alan and Paul over here to paint my house I could afford to keep the WJ or at least get a new Liberty... ;) I saw a liberty at the light a few days ago... not really sure what to make of it yet... It reminds me of something... just can't figure out what yet. Will have to drive one to see what it's like. If the visibility is better I may just give it some thought. I've never had a new car before, would be kind of nice to start out fresh for once... :) I looked at a friend's 91 or 92 XJ today and noticed it had an overhead console and really nice leather seats... I'm thinking an XJ with a compass will make my wife very happy, she seems to be very impressed with the temp gauge/compass gizmo on the console. ;) Hey, you know what? I haven't heard from the Admiral for a while, on either list... what's up with that? Brian, you still reading email? ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 00:56:28 -0600 From: "JC Jones" Subject: fsj: RE: Non FSJ- XJ Stereo I would guess that you disconnected a wire, or blew a fuse with a short. I have a Rampage CD deck (that I got because it was cheap and I knew it would get stolen sooner or later), and I have been very happy with it. I don't know about the power output because I run mine through an amp, but it's the first CD player I've had that does not skip in a lifted FSJ. I can hardly get it to skip in my J10 even when I hit the roughest roads. *============================================* * JC Jones * * 76 Wagoneer (Road Warrior) - Retired * * 84 Grand Wagoneer (Eeyore) * * 79 J10 (Max) - In Development * * 86 Cherokee Laredo (Junior) * * 79 NT Cherokee (parts) * * http://www.wagoneer.net * *============================================* > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of > mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 5:58 PM > To: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: Non FSJ- XJ Stereo > > > I tried to put a Audiovox Rampage (It was a good > deal but never again!) in my 89 XJ and Now the > stereo shows NO power at all and the dash clock > doesn't work > > any ideas? > > thanks, Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 00:13:46 -0700 From: Clark Novak Subject: RE: fsj: Non FSJ- XJ Stereo Same thing happened to me in my SJ. I don't know XJs, but I know Jeeps :) You might check your fusible links and see if the one that feeds your accessory circuit has blown. Also check your charging circuit and see if it's actually charging; alternator feed to the battery is on the same circuit. If you just blew a fuse, then charging will be OK, but if you blew a link, you aren't charging the battery either. Clark Novak 87 GW > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 19:57:51 -0400 > From: mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net > Subject: fsj: Non FSJ- XJ Stereo > > I tried to put a Audiovox Rampage (It was a good deal but never > again!) in my 89 XJ and Now the stereo shows NO power at all and > the dash clock doesn't work > > any ideas? > > thanks, Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 12:01:27 -0400 From: mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net Subject: Re: fsj: RE: Non FSJ- XJ Stereo JC, Are you going to update your J10 site soon? Mike "JC Jones" wrote: > > I would guess that you disconnected a wire, or blew a fuse > with a short. > > I have a Rampage CD deck (that I got because it was cheap > and I knew it would get stolen sooner or later), and I have > been very happy with it.  I don't know about the power > output because I run mine through an amp, but it's the first > CD player I've had that does not skip in a lifted FSJ.  I > can hardly get it to skip in my J10 even when I hit the > roughest roads. > > *============================================* > *  JC Jones                                  * > *  76 Wagoneer (Road Warrior) - Retired      * > *  84 Grand Wagoneer (Eeyore)                * > *  79 J10 (Max) - In Development             * > *  86 Cherokee Laredo (Junior)               * > *  79 NT Cherokee (parts)                    * > *  http://www.wagoneer.net                   * > *============================================* > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net > > [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of > > mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net > > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 5:58 PM > > To: fsj-at-digest.net > > Subject: fsj: Non FSJ- XJ Stereo > > > > > > I tried to put a Audiovox Rampage (It was a good > > deal but never again!) in my 89 XJ and Now the > > stereo shows NO power at all and the dash clock > > doesn't work > > > > any ideas? > > > > thanks, Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 12:55:05 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Vacuum delays.. At 12:15 PM 6/10/01 -0500, R.J. Baynum wrote: >John here is the web site that list the vacuum delays... >http://www.ifsja.org/tech/fuel/vacdelay.shtml > >My question is,... Does this fit my 80 J-10 ? Am I supposed to have on >all these don't know for sure... the J10 went through emissions check in California and Washington ok... CA had a visual so all the stuff had to be correct. I never had any trouble with it. I am migrating to the newer setup with the '96 xj engine and don't have to deal with such issues... :) It's all modular... I go down and buy the entire vacuum assembly for around 10 bucks and plug it in... very handy. the XJ's are so much easier to deal with... Still love my FSJ though, that's why I'm putting an XJ engine in it. :) You've got the shop manual for it and it should have the vacuum diagram. As far as copying something from another site, not going to happen. If I have time I'll do my own research and write it up myself. I will accept input from others if they email me the page and permission to use it. It'll have the person's by line on it as well, unless they don't want their name on it. I don't need any trouble or hassles, get enough from things that shouldn't be a problem... ;) john >switches, I have one that is bad, which is the purple /blk and d one >is already >installed, a white and brown.. Notice all this on the chart is blk/ whatever >color. The other day Me and my best friend went to a Junk yard and found >that 84 >GW and liberated a purple and white switch, same as the blk/purple, but >the last >number is a 5, not a 4 in the part number.. >Now since I noticed this, I also notice I did not have that one installed >either, >this says dist/vac, So I put that one there. I started right up and so far >sounds >good, and it did not diesel either when I shut the engine off. >So As you can see I am a little confused, on what is what, and what belongs to >what model and so forth. Also.. You might want to consider copying this >web page >so you can add it to your site.. The color chart is blacked out, but you >can still >see the info, why I don't know, and I can not get a clear copy off the >printer.. >Monday I am going to Bessamer AL. north of Birmingham for that radiator >Shroud, >and this vacuum delay switch that I need, costing me 19 bucks and for the >shroud >.. 89 bucks > >Any suggestions? >Thanks for any help ! > >R.J. - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 13:10:35 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: GW tailgate At 03:10 PM 6/10/01 -0400, Flahavancm-at-aol.com wrote: >Looking for some tips on repairing the tailgate on my 89 Grand Wagoneer. The >motor works, although the window does not go all the way up. It makes a >horrendous sound when raising or lowering. I removed the rear plate of the >tailgate and there appears to be lots of rust on the tracks. Any >suggestions? go to the dealer and buy new siderails (tracks) for the window. I have pictures up on my server. http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Tailgate-Manual/ john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 13:36:51 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: ZJ's Someone suggested that I consider an older style Grand Cherokee... the ZJ models... I've always been repulsed by them... but in figuring out whether we're going to keep the WJ or not for sure I've been looking at the prices and they are just slightly higher than an XJ Cherokee. I'd like to hear off list from anyone that owns a ZJ GC to see what they're like. Just examining options at this point. There may be a glimmer of hope of keeping this WJ even... we'll see... I redid my server a bit to include some data that I captured on the WJ's, have a new section for them. So I have SJ, XJ and WJ sections, as well as the DieselBenz and some general JEEP stuff. thanx, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 17:33:45 -0400 From: mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net Subject: fsj: My Jeeps The 93 ZJ is fine The 82 Waggy Is Fine even the 86 dodge p/u and the 97 Buick Lesabre are trouble free but The 89 XJ is BAD. I Had made an appointment to get the rockers replaced on it (the only rust)I called the guy who I bought it from to ask him who did electrical work to it (a lot of home made fixes) and it is the same guy who will be fixing my rockers. So I called him to tell him to check the Fusible links and if that is not the problem fix whatever is causing it and get the rockers done. I'm not sure what this will cost me, but the rockers alone were goindg to run me about 300. Thanks for the help! Mike - ------- 93 Jeep Grand Cherokee LTD. 4x4 97 Buick LeSabre LTD. 86 Dodge Power Ram 150 4x4 89 Jeep Cherokee Pioneer 4x4 82 Jeep Wagoneer LTD. Convertable (It's amazing what $75 and a Sawzall will get you) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 17:10:39 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: 0 to 60 mph anyone know what the Dodge Durango does 0 to 60 in? 5.2L and 5.9L I'm curious... :) http://www.wagoneers.com/WJ/WJ-acceleration.html thanx john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 21:22:57 -0400 From: mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net Subject: fsj: Durango It was a 2001 Durango SLT with a 5.9L 360. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 21:01:03 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: ownership experiences... :) At 11:19 PM 6/10/01 -0400, GW1989-at-aol.com wrote: >Hey all- > >I just got back from my trip to Palm Springs. Pictures are posted. If they >take a long time to load, let me know and I'll reduce the size. They load >fast for me, but then I have DSL. I always put big pictures up... takes too long to edit them down and to mitigate frustration I always (usually) make a "ALL-" contact sheet so folks can see what all is there first. :) >With regard to the shimmy/shake, the thing I noticed was it happens a speeds >about 40 and above. It is just more noticeable at higher speeds. Also the >shake is very rhythmic. That is it will ride very smooth for about 5 seconds >and then the shake will begin gradually. It will build to a nice vibration >about 10 seconds later and then will take about 10 seconds to go away again >and be smooth again. Over and over again. What can this be??? If it was the >tires, it seems as if it would be all the time. Could it be a bearing? nope, sounds like that damper on the trans mount. Replace the tranny mount and the isolation dampner bushing for starters. It could be a driveshaft u-joint also, but you'd have other symptoms, and with your mileage so good it's unlikely. My guess is the dampner or very remotely a bad/out of balance tire, but if it comes and goes, that's not likely, it points back to that tranny mount/isolator gizmo. :) >Oh, by the way, on the drive down I got an amazing (to me) 17.7 mpg with my >speed about 65. I was expecting 13-14. You lead a charmed life. ;) I haven't even gotten that good of mileage with my 6 cylinder FSJs. :) Come to think of it I rarely get that good with my XJ's, are you sure you were using US Gallons and MILES? ;) thinking about it we should have taken the time to get together when we were as close as we were. :) I want to learn more about the big Island... of course if we keep the Grand Cherokee a trip like that will be in a couple years or more... :) We're thinking that it might work... all depends on whether or not we can sell the Benz and XJ for enough to cover the credit cards... We had it all worked out before to buy a nice XJ, I kind of complicated things by getting the WJ. :) >I'm pretty happy:D yeah, I will be too if SuperDawg gets that kind of mileage with his new engine/trans setup. :) >Thanks, >Craig ttyl john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1342 **************************