From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Jun 14 13:33:21 2001 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, June 14 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1347 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re:Re: xfr case questions and ideas... fsj: Re:Re: xfr case questions and ideas... Re: fsj: Seat swap? Re: fsj: Mood Jeep? re: fsj: Mood Jeep? fsj: NEW FSJ RESOURCE fsj: spotted in the paper re: fsj: Mood Jeep? Re: fsj: Mood Jeep? fsj: mood jeep fsj: Re: Re: xfr case questions and ideas... fsj: CALENDAR AND RESIN MODEL UPDATES fsj: getting priorities straight FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:56:43 -0700 From: Mike Dillon Subject: fsj: Re:Re: xfr case questions and ideas... John, Look in your local phone book, under machine shops, Ideally you are looking for a small outfit that is willing to take on a one off job, take your transfer case to them so they can use the mounting face as a pattern to make the spacer, you spec. how thick it needs to be and then talk price. They will usually give you a break on a job if you are willing to wait, so they can use your job as filler work. Remember the saying: Do you want it quick ? Do you want it good ? Do you want it cheap ? Pick two out of three. Mike D. Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:47:31 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: xfr case questions and ideas... On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, James Blair wrote: >-->A: WHAT!?!? It doesn't fit? The 23 spline AW4 I have fit up to the NP229 >-->I matched it up to! If it won't come all the way together, maybe a >-->spacer needs to be made out of 7/8" steel? Maybe 1" for internal >-->clearance? That would cost about $100 at most machine shops. this would be a good thing, do tell more. :) The AisinWarner 30-80Le is from a 1996 XJ, the NP219 is from an '83(?) Wide track Cherokee that had a Torqueflite 727. both are 23 spline... adapater? where, how much and how soon can it be delivered? :) john ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:00:45 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re:Re: xfr case questions and ideas... On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Mike Dillon wrote: not a problem, my friend doing the swap is a machinist and I've access to a machine shop... good idea though. :) john >--> >-->John, >--> >--> Look in your local phone book, under machine shops, Ideally >-->you are looking for a small outfit that is willing to take on a one >-->off job, take your transfer case to them so they can use the mounting >-->face as a pattern to make the spacer, you spec. how thick it needs to >-->be and then talk price. They will usually give you a break on a job >-->if you are willing to wait, so they can use your job as filler work. >--> >-->Remember the saying: >-->Do you want it quick ? >-->Do you want it good ? >-->Do you want it cheap ? >--> >-->Pick two out of three. >--> >-->Mike D. >--> >-->Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:47:31 -0700 (PDT) >-->From: john >-->Subject: fsj: Re: xfr case questions and ideas... >--> >-->On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, James Blair wrote: >--> >-->>-->A: WHAT!?!? It doesn't fit? The 23 spline AW4 I have fit up to the NP229 >-->>-->I matched it up to! If it won't come all the way together, maybe a >-->>-->spacer needs to be made out of 7/8" steel? Maybe 1" for internal >-->>-->clearance? That would cost about $100 at most machine shops. >--> >-->this would be a good thing, do tell more. :) >--> >-->The AisinWarner 30-80Le is from a 1996 XJ, >-->the NP219 is from an '83(?) Wide track Cherokee that had a Torqueflite 727. >--> >-->both are 23 spline... >--> >-->adapater? where, how much and how soon can it be delivered? :) >--> >-->john >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:23:53 EDT From: UrbFarmer-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: Seat swap? Clark: Not sure about XJ. I know that the CJ seats I bought bolted right in. I really like them. Can you measure the holes easily? - --Vince '81 Wag In a message dated 6/12/01 8:34:10 PM Central Daylight Time, steelydn-at-pacbell.net writes: > Anyone ever swapped buckets from an XJ into an SJ? I found a wrecked XJ > Wagoneer with the leather interior, and the seats are in great shape. Will > they bold in to our SJ floorpans, or will I have to fab some brackets? > > Clark Novak > 87 GW/San Diego ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:42:48 EDT From: UrbFarmer-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: Mood Jeep? Hey Jim: When you say Rainbow - is this the paint that basically refracts the light so it has a rainbow effect? Is it clear? If so, I helped with a paint job on a '69 Mach one where we painted it Corvette red and put flames on the hood, then hit the whole thing three times with clear coat. When you went under the street lights at night, it looked like the flames were moving. - --Vince '81 Wag In a message dated 6/13/01 1:38:12 AM Central Daylight Time, Carnuck2-at-webtv.net writes: > A: We recently got in a rainbow paint kit. It comes with primer, paint > and clear coat. Probably would take 5 kits to paint a FSJ right though! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:40:20 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: re: fsj: Mood Jeep? On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Alexander Wall wrote: >-->1984 1983: Vintage Red Irid 1J Deep Maroon Irid 1K Garnet Irid 3C or 3P 1986: Garnet Irid 3C or 3P that's all I've got... did you look under the hood at the codes on the plate on the firewall? john >--> >-->--- john wrote: >-->> On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Alexander Wall wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->Speaking of paint - Does anyone know what I should hunt for to match the Wagoneer >-->> >-->maroon? I need a touch-up supply. A paint code would be great (the sticker is >-->> gone on >-->> >-->mine), or the actual color mix. >-->> >-->> what year, I happen to have several years worth of paint chip charts with me at >-->> work... ;) >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Thanks! >-->> >-->Alex >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->> ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> >--> >-->Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 >-->a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:09:07 EDT From: RMSquaredJeeps-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: NEW FSJ RESOURCE A few weeks ago I petitioned the owners of the jeepunlimited.com web site to add an FSJ forum and today they notified me that it had been done. It is not to replace any of the existing FSJ-related mailing lists but rather to offer another way, this one totally web-based, for the FSJ community to exchange information and communicate. They use some slick software that acts like a real-time BBS and allows through the use of what they call UBB code, image insertion into the body of the post. Take a look and if you like what you see, please join. Here's a direct link to a listing of all the Jeep vehicle forums. http://forums.jeepsunlimited.com/cgi-bin/ju/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro Look forward to seeing many of you join me. Richard Truesdell 1969 Jeep Super Wagoneer 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:31:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: fsj: spotted in the paper '77 Wagoneer with 401. Has bad lifter $800 360-668-4590 Woodinville, WA (E of John M) ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:36:10 -0700 From: john Subject: re: fsj: Mood Jeep? At 05:56 PM 6/13/01 -0700, you wrote: >Didn't know there was a plate on the firewall. Driver or passenger side? yes. (depends on the year. :) john >Thanks!! > > >--- john wrote: > > On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Alexander Wall wrote: > > > > >-->1984 > > > > 1983: > > Vintage Red Irid 1J > > Deep Maroon Irid 1K > > Garnet Irid 3C or 3P > > > > 1986: > > Garnet Irid 3C or 3P > > > > > > that's all I've got... did you look under the > > hood at the codes on the plate on the firewall? > > > > john > > > > > > >--> > > >-->--- john wrote: > > >-->> On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Alexander Wall wrote: > > >-->> > > >-->> >-->Speaking of paint - Does anyone know what I should hunt for > to match the > > Wagoneer > > >-->> >-->maroon? I need a touch-up supply. A paint code would be > great (the > > sticker is > > >-->> gone on > > >-->> >-->mine), or the actual color mix. > > >-->> > > >-->> what year, I happen to have several years worth of paint chip > charts with me at > > >-->> work... ;) > > >-->> > > >-->> john > > >-->> > > >-->> >--> > > >-->> >-->Thanks! > > >-->> >-->Alex > > >-->> ---- > > >-->> > > >-->> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >-->> ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on > Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** > > >-->> ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** > http://freegift.net ** > > >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, > please... > > >-->> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >--> > > >--> > > >-->Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > > >-->a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > >--> > > > > ---- > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** > > ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** > > Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. >http://buzz.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:31:14 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Re: fsj: Mood Jeep? A mood ring was heat sensitive paint Do they make that? R.J. UrbFarmer-at-aol.com wrote: > > Hey Jim: > When you say Rainbow - is this the paint that basically refracts the light so > it has a rainbow effect? Is it clear? If so, I helped with a paint job on a > '69 Mach one where we painted it Corvette red and put flames on the hood, > then hit the whole thing three times with clear coat. When you went under > the street lights at night, it looked like the flames were moving. > --Vince > '81 Wag > > In a message dated 6/13/01 1:38:12 AM Central Daylight Time, > Carnuck2-at-webtv.net writes: > > > A: We recently got in a rainbow paint kit. It comes with primer, paint > > and clear coat. Probably would take 5 kits to paint a FSJ right though! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:39:34 -0400 From: mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net Subject: fsj: mood jeep There is light sensitive paint, DuPont Chromalusion, about $700 a quart. I painted my ex girlfriend's Renault Allience with it ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:32:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: Re: xfr case questions and ideas... A: FYI, the change from spline to spline works like this: In '84 Jeep went to the XJ, they used 900 series auto trannies, and they were NP207 (208's weak brother due to case thiness and slipyoke output) and NP229 (228 in '86) which is the same as the FSJ version, but the front yoke has to be swapped, and both were still 23 spline. In late '86 (when the 4.0L came out) they switched to the AW4 automatic, and 21 splines with NP231 (Commandtrac) taking over for the 207, and NP242 was the Selectrac. In 09/90, Jeep XJs came out with the 4.0L HO and switched to 23 spline again (even Toyota was using 23 spline with their V6, but the shaft is different. I discovered this while looking for one to swap into the other AW4 I bought from a 08/90 XJ) I'm pretty sure (after talking to the guys at Sea-Tac trans) that the 23 spline input gear and wider gears and thicker chain from the NVG 249 I had (from a rolled over '93 GC with 5.2L/32R4/249 I was going to put in my Eagle I no longer have) I sold the 249 (and the 21 spline 242) to a guy that was going to install it in his old NP242. (I think when the HO came out, New Venture Gear took over New Process, but Zack would know better than I.) FWIW, all the '80-'88 AMC Eagles had single speed versions of the NP cases. NP119 quadratrac, NP129/128 Selectrac, but no Commandtrac. (Anyone needing a viscous coupler now knows where to look! ) This info was written by me before, with a chart showing swapability in AIM (American Independent Motors) magazine which is run by Frank Swygert.    From: C^2 Some 242's have 21 splines, and some have 23 splines.   I know this because I was looking for a spare 242 for my 94XJ, and I had to know the spline count in order to get the right one when I talked with Junkyards & T-case vendors. Apparently, Mopar must have a 21 and 23 spline shaft available. Call National Driveline in Chicago at 1-800-507-4327. They should have a shaft or know how to do what you want to do. - -Chris ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:48:07 EDT From: RMSquaredJeeps-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: CALENDAR AND RESIN MODEL UPDATES Hi Gang! A few weeks ago on 5/20/01 I posted that due to the fact that several members of the Jeep Engineering team, having seen copies of the FSJ calendar that I produced last Christmas, wanted to order some of their own. Since I printed no extra copies, this would require a second, limited edition print run, at a slightly higher price from the first edition (see details below) I was a bit surprised, given that after the initial run was completed there were several requests for calendars, that there was very little interest this time around, about six additional units. Before I close this off, I wanted to notify all the lists that I subscribe to, that this will be the last chance to order a calendar. I have extended the final date to Monday, June 18 but after that, the print run will be closed. If you want to order a 2001 FSJ Calendar, please follow the directions below, contained in my original post. At the same time I also posted that I was investigating the possibility of having a 1/25 scale Wagoneer resin kit commissioned, taking advantage of the reissue by Revell of the Jeep Honcho/Twister model. There was not much interest there either, about a dozen people contacted me but I'm afraid that won't be enough to get the project moving forward. Again, if you would be interested in participating in this project, read the details below and contact me at rmsquaredjeeps-at-aol.com. Since I'm on digest mode on all four lists, it is very important, if you are interested in either project, that you follow the directions and contact me directly at that E-mail address. Thanks again, Richard Truesdell Subj: '01 JEEP CALENDAR REPRINTS AND WAGONEER 1/25th SCALE MODEL Date: 5/20/2001 5:46:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time From: RM Squared Jeeps To: FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com, fsj-at-digest.net To: cfsja-at-yahoogroups.com, 1FSJ-at-yahoogroups.com CC: m-baxter-at-home.com, wajm-at-yellowsub.net CC: drc-at-wwa.com, RKH911 Quick update. Two weeks ago I attended the press launch for the new Jeep Liberty. If you'd like to view my impressions, they are currently posted on a UK Jeep club site at: http://www.jeepclub.co.uk/articles/liberty.html While I was there I gave the KJ's project manager my last two calendars to give to my PR contacts at Jeep. As I've mentioned earlier, his Dad held basically the same position at Kaiser in the late '50's and early '60's when the Wagoneer and Gladiator were developed and the calendar was dedicated to his Dad's memory. He showed the calendar to some of his peers in the engineering group and several expressed interest in getting a few calendars for themselves. Since several people on the various FSJ mailing lists expressed interest in buying calendars after the production run was completed, I have decided to produce a second print run. The calendars will be $26 each including shipping with additional calendars available for $24 each. Payment will be via PayPal only. I will not be accepting any checks this time around. If you're interested in purchasing a calendar, please let me know and process your payment NO LATER THAN JUNE 15. I anticipate doing the print run in the days following the cut off date with delivery via USPS Priority Mail by July 3. Now for the 1/25th scale Wagoneer project. As many of you know Revell-Monogram is releasing or has released a reissue of the Twister J-10 Honcho pickup truck in 1/25 scale. Information can be found at: http://www.revell-monogram.com/store/ModelDetail.cfm?Id=93&SubjectId=18&SkillI Several months ago, when this kit was announced, I put up some posts on some modeling boards and today, a model maker from Montana wrote me and we talked about the possibility of doing a resin body of a Wagoneer body. Resin bodies are a sort of cottage industry for hard-core modelers and it is a process where a limited run of bodies can be produced for vehicles for where there is not sufficient demand to tool up a full injection mold. We spoke at length over the phone and I'm going to send him one of the reissue models or my still-sealed Twister model and together we are going to talk about having him do up a mold for a resin body. Typically resin bodies sell for between $40 and $70 each in serious hobby stores. To complete one you'll need a donor vehicle for the chassis. Having a mold done is not cheap but it is not outlandishly expensive, it all depends how complex the final product will be. In essence two molds will be needed, one for the body and a second for the interior tub. My thought is that the body would have no grille but would have provisions for one of the five main grilles from the first Rhino to the last Grand Wagoneer. The five grilles would be part of the mold for the interior tub. This way you would be able to build up a completed model from any era and duplicate your own vehicle. At this time, we're thinking that if there was a production run of 100 bodies to amortize the cost of the mold, the cost per unit would be around $50 each. The question is figuring $50 for the resin kit, $12 for the Revell-Monogram donor kit, typical paint and the builder's time, just how big is the market for such a project among the members of the various Jeep mailing lists. Based on the success of the calendar at 150 units plus the second printing to come, is a production run of 100 units realistic? Actually it is 97 since I already know that I will be in for three units myself. I'd like to see this go forward but under one condition, it will not move forward unless there is a subscription of a minimum number of units at a specified price before I commission the mold. Every subscriber would have to put up a deposit of at least 50% of the final cost before work is started on the mold. I realize that this might be considered a leap of faith by some but I think I have a pretty good track record based on the calendar project and I'm willing to get the ball rolling. Look at it this way, for around $70 plus the time you invest to build up the model, you'll be able to build a faithful scale model of your own truck, less than the cost of a Franklin Mint model. I think that you could even commission a local modeler to build it up for you, just visit a good local hobby shop to find such an individual. The question is how much serious interest is there here for such a project and how many of you are willing to invest approximately $25 each to get the ball rolling? If you are interested, please E-mail me your thoughts along with the number of resin kits you would be willing to buy. If the number approaches the break-even point, then I will finalize the price based on the number of units specified and start taking deposits. When the commitment level is reached, I will commission the start of the mold and will post the notification to the mailing lists as well to each individual subscriber who has placed a deposit. Does this make sense? I suspect that this will take some time but if we start now, I am confident that the kits can be delivered by Thanksgiving so that they will arrive in time for Christmas giving. I look forward to hearing back from list members on both issues. When responding, please E-mail me directly at rmsquaredjeeps-at-aol.com. If you wish to order a calendar, please write in the subject line in upper case letters "I WANT IN ON THE CALENDAR" and let me know how many you will want in the body of the E-mail. If you wish to subscribe to the resin kit project, please write in the subject line in upper case letters "I WANT IN ON THE RESIN KIT" and let me know how many you will be willing to purchase. I look forward to hearing from many of you. Please feel free to pass this information along to other FSJ enthusiasts who might not be on these mailing lists. Sincerely, Richard Truesdell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:56:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: getting priorities straight A: We're having fun, but I figure if I'm going to have Blackie rolling in time for the picnic, I'm gonna have to cut some corners. I'll still pop in during the eves or if it's raining, but I'm going into semi-lurk mode so I can be driving my FSJ ASAP! A little unfused humor: (From Larry)     A philosophy professor stood before his class and had some items in front of him. When the class began, wordlessly he picked up a large empty mayonnaise jar and proceeded to fill it with rocks, rocks about 2" in diameter. He then asked the students if the jar was full? They agreed that it was. So the professor then picked up a box of pebbles and poured them into the jar. He shook the jar lightly. The pebbles, of course, rolled into the open areas between the rocks. He then asked the students again if the jar was full. They agreed it was. The students laughed. The professor picked up a box of sand and poured it into the jar. Of course, the sand filled up everything else. "Now," said the professor, "I want you to recognise that this is your life. The rocks are the important things - your family, your partner, your health, your children - things that if everything else was lost and only they remained, your life would still be full. The pebbles are the other things that matter like your job, your house, your car. The sand is everything else, the small stuff. If you put the sand into the jar first, there is no room for the pebbles or the rocks. The same goes for your life. If you spend all your time and energy on the small stuff, you will never have room for the things that are important to you. Pay attention to the things that are critical to your happiness. Play with your children. Take time to get medical checkups. Take your partner out dancing. There will always be time to go to work, clean the house, give a dinner party and fix the disposal. Take care of the rocks first - the things that really matter. Set your priorities. The rest is just sand." But then... A student then took the jar which the other students and the professor agreed was full, and proceeded to pour in a glass of beer. Of course the beer filled the remaining spaces within the jar making the jar truly full. The moral of this tale is:- no matter how full your life is, there is always room for BEER. - ---------------------------------------------- ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1347 **************************