From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Jun 15 09:47:58 2001 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, June 15 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1348 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Re:Re: xfr case questions and ideas... RE: fsj: seat swap xj-sj fsj: Re: Re: xfr case questions and ideas... fsj: status... fsj: Re: My Beast fsj: My Poor SJ.... fsj: Interest in a EFI Distrubutor(s) fsj: administrivia: notes on using this list fsj: alphabet Jeep report (DaimlerChrysler) fsj: Re: [1FSJ] alphabet Jeep report (DaimlerChrysler) FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:56:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re:Re: xfr case questions and ideas... A: Pacific Machine shop is just down the hill from me, and they are Jeep friendly (they built Thor's Stroker Jeep) From: Mike Dillon John,                 Look in your local phone book, under machine shops, Ideally you are looking for a small outfit that is willing to take on a one off job, take your transfer case to them so they can use the mounting face as a pattern to make the spacer, you spec. how thick it needs to be and then talk price. They will usually give you a break on a job if you are willing to wait, so they can use your job as filler work. Remember the saying: Do you want it quick ? Do you want it good ? Do you want it cheap ? Pick two out of three. Mike D. ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:26:45 -0700 From: Clark Novak Subject: RE: fsj: seat swap xj-sj Mm. Thankx for the info. You would figure this stuff would be interchangeable... but no :) I was thinking about some of those Steelhorse CJ seats, but they don't really match... was hoping to get something AMC that would replace and upgrade. Finding GW seats in decent shape is like hunting for gold in a silver mine :) Clark Novak 87 GW > Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 00:14:54 -0700 > From: john > Subject: fsj: seat swap xj-sj > > >Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:33:10 -0700 > >From: Clark Novak > >Subject: fsj: Seat swap? > >Anyone ever swapped buckets from an XJ into an SJ? I found a wrecked XJ > >Wagoneer with the leather interior, and the seats are in great > shape. Will > >they bold in to our SJ floorpans, or will I have to fab some brackets? > >Clark Novak > >87 GW/San Diego > > the xj floor plan/seat brackets are totally different from the SJ. > > besides, don't do it... XJ seats are weak, the frames break... > and they're > uncomfortable, and they will NOT bolt directly in. I could look at the > underside of my XJ seats to see if they would bolt to the SJ base. > > I did mate a set of leather seats from a Camry(?) to a set of GW power > bases and bolted them into SuperDawg. > > If the Xj seats have 4 bolts on a flat surface they might work... > but it seems > to me I've tried this before and it won't work... the bases > aren't the same... > afaik... > > I have adapated Volvo, Camry, and VW seats into SJ's however. :) > > john ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:31:55 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Re: xfr case questions and ideas... On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, James Blair wrote: >-->A: FYI, the change from spline to spline works like this: In '84 Jeep >-->went to the XJ, they used 900 series auto trannies, and they were NP207 >-->(208's weak brother due to case thiness and slipyoke output) and NP229 >-->(228 in '86) which is the same as the FSJ version, but the front yoke my '86 xj had a 229, so did my '86 Comanche. The only 228's I've seen have been in FSJ's, but since this is a jeep thing there are no hard and fast rules... ;) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:41:25 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: status... - - well, got the '99 GC inspected, titled, licensed and tagged. :) - - may have a buyer for my '83 300SD. - - looks like a solution for an adapter has been discovered. :) if it works we'll have figured out how to mate an XJ trans to an SJ xfr case. - - the '87 Cherokee is doing great, if it only had a/c... :) thanx all for the input on publishing s/w. john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:22:16 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: My Beast On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Derek Burkhalter wrote: Derek Burkhalter >-->I'am in a dilema I can Leave the 360 in my truck or get a brand new 401 for 1800 bucks Do YOu think I should just stick with my 360 or go with the 401. If I go with the 401 it is direct bolt in right no mods to transmisson >-->Thank You >--> >-->Derek M Burkhalter As far as I know they should be completely interchangeable. The old saying is that there is no substitue for cubic inches... :) I'll post this to the FSJ lists as a reality check. john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:04:47 EDT From: DoctorNor-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: My Poor SJ.... Hi eveyone, I had a bit of bad luck, in the form of a nice motorist deciding to stop in the middle of the road on me, while I was readign directions... To make it short, my 88 Grand Wagoneer has a bent bumper, broken left headlight trim, bent front valance, destroyed outer grill , (the inner was saved), and a crunched left fender. I am so upset with this, and want my truck back!!!!! I have sent emails around the globe it seems for replacement items, with little response. My local salvage yards are empty of anything I could use to repair mu pride and joy. Does anyone have some of these items hanging around? I live in Mass, and there are so few of these around here....help if ya can. Tony 88 Grand Wagoneer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 00:58:45 -0700 From: Mike Dillon Subject: fsj: Interest in a EFI Distrubutor(s) Hi Guy's (and Gal's) Sorry for the cross post, Is there any interest in a group buy for wide cap GM computer controlled distributors ? These would be useful for those doing EFI retrofits (either port injection or TBI). on AMC V8. This would work with GM ( I don't know about Ford) based injection setups, like Howell. They use standard GM parts (Cap, module, pickup coil) and would be made by DUI. What I would like to do is see if there is enough interest to go to DUI and get better pricing, than what they will do on a one off. (Ray D. I think you might be interested) Mike D. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 02:15:01 -0400 From: Richard Welty Subject: fsj: administrivia: notes on using this list Digest.Net mailing list "Meta FAQ" These general notes on using Digest.Net mailing lists are posted on the 1st and 15th of each month. This file may be found on the web at http://www.digest.net/general-notes.txt [last revised 8/30/00; Demime added, new HTML rules as a result, new spammer block list on web to replace Special Note] Special Note The list of alleged spammers which previously appeared here has been replaced by the new URL http://www.digest.net/blocked.html Additional information on Digest.Net's spam policies may be found at http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html Table of Contents 1. Why don't my postings go through? 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? 3. How do I post to the list? 4. Where are the archives? 5. What other lists are on digest.net? 6. Is there a web subscription form? 7. Why not move the lists to someplace like (egroups, topica,...)? 8. What is Krusty Motorsports, anyway? The Meta-FAQ 1. Why don't my postings go through? There are several things that may interfere with postings making it to the list. a) Are you a member? Some read the ftp archives rather than receiving the list in email. Persons who read the list via email are automatically members, but readers of the FTP archive are not, and need to contact me (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com) and get your name added to the list of "permitted senders". b) has your email address changed? some of you have had changes in your email address. your old address still works, and is still on the list, but your From: line shows a new address. this can happen for various reasons; you may have changed jobs or ISPs, and left a forward in place, or your IT staff may have fiddled with the email system. you will need to unsubscribe your old email address and subscribe the new one. this may require my involvement, if you can't figure out a way to get your old address off the list using the conventional majordomo commands. you can use the majordomo "which" command to probe for old addresses. send a message to majordomo-at-digest.net with one or more which commands in the body, one per line. to check for potential addresses for Fred Flinstone, formerly of bedrock.org, the following commands can be sent: which flintstone which bedrock note that the matches above might return any of the following addresses, if they appear in the list (in other words, you can use vagueness and incompleteness in your recollection as a tool): Fred.Flinstone-at-bedrock.org fflinstone-at-wilma.bedrock.org flintstonef-at-bedrock.com c) do you have more than one email address? if so, only the subscribed addresses can post, unless you contact me (see 1.a) above for relevant information) d) are you using (intentionally or accidentially) special "features" of your mail client? [this section is no longer operative, as the demime software now strips html, attachments, rich text format, etc. from postings automatically.] e) are your posts too large? there is a 10,000 character limit on posting sizes; this is done for various reasons. you can always split up large postings to get mail through. f) are you including majordomo commands at the start of your message? administrivia control is turned on; this is a trap for things like "unsubscribe" at the start of a message. try to avoid obvious majordomo commands in the subject and the first 10 lines, or misspell them in obvious ways (e.g. unzubscribe, 1ndex, h3lp, g3t, etc.) g) are you triggering spam traps? some things are red flags; for example, the following phrases in subject lines are automatically blocked: Important Message From growth stocks free calling card direct e-mail secrets Merchant Account Mass Marketing make money fast Pediatric advice Email ? 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Yes, recently added. go to http://www.digest.net/bin/digest-subs.cgi 7. Why not move the lists to someplace like (egroups, topica,...)? The Krusty Motorsports server (aka, digest.net) was explicitly to provide for efficient management of the various automotive mailing lists, done the way that the owner of the server wanted it done. Any migration off of the server (which is already bought, paid for, and configured) would create any number of issues. 8. What is Krusty Motorsports, anyway? Krusty Motorsports (http:/www.krusty-motorsports.com/) is a business which is owned and operated by Richard Welty (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com). Krusty is, as of this writing, changing from a DBA in Rensselaer County, New York, to an S-Corporation in the State of New York. Krusty provides a number of Internet related services, such as mailing list, web sites, pop3/telnet accounts, and consulting on internet related issues. For more information, see the web site for Krusty. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 23:49:35 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: alphabet Jeep report (DaimlerChrysler) finally got my WJ all legal. only took all morning... went to the dealer to find out about warranties and some history on my '99 GC. Interesting print outs. Seems it originated in Virginia. Anyone ever heard of Woodbridge Jeep? It appears that Jeep started it's adventure near Burke, VA. Other dealerships showing up on the reports: (names are truncated and abbreviated it appears... ;) Pomoco C-P of Newport NE Wilhelmy Chevrolet/Olds/Cad Concordia Auto LTEE Performance Laurentides Anyway, while at the dealership I decided to check out the new KJ (liberty). the KJ is a nice rig, easy access to the back, unlike XJ's or SJ's. You sit up nicely with plenty of headroom, adequate visibility, but visibility still not as good forward as an SJ, or even as good as an XJ, but better than a ZJ or WJ. It comes with a 3.7L V6, sweet sounding motor, felt nice, responsive. I didn't take it for a long drive as the salesman pointed out that one rig racked up 500 miles rather quickly, and since I am still in the "figuring out what kind of Jeep I really want mode" I didn't ask to go further. :) The ride and suspension are somewhere between a TJ and an XJ, in a nice way. Felt solid, tight and controllable. There are stout bars underneath for the IFS and tucked up nicely. There are even rollers under the rear axle parts so if you get up on something it'll let you roll over!!! Very cool. I still like solid axles but I think I'd give this one a chance... looks like they set it up well, much better underneath than most Independent Suspension rigs... I like the tailgate setup in back, rear window flips up, then the tailgate that holds the rear spare swings to the left. Rear seats fold down with a split in the middle. not a large cargo area, but adequate. I especially liked the look of the hood from the driver's seat, nice shape. The controls for the windows are in the center console. Kind of spartan, but then again remember I'd been cruising all day long in the top of the line WJ... shoot, my 300SD seems spartan after that ride. ;) I also looked at some newer XJ's. Trying to decide what is going to be the best family Jeep and the one for my wife. At this point the WJ we have is winning the argument as the price on even last years XJ is around $25k! Same as the KJ. The WJ equipped as mine is lists at $42K!!! The sales guy had a very, very nice 2000 XJ limited, but he said it was for sale at $25k!!! Looks like the '99 WJ's are still selling for high 20's, low 30's... It was interesting to note that the salesman pointed out several times the influence of the Mercedes folks on quality, especially on the KJ. Also the centralization of the controls, a very Mercedes trait. and the new 5 speed automatic in the WJ, which I think he said was a Mercedes tranny... not sure, don't hold me to that one I was in "sticker shock" at what the Grand Cherokee Limited was listed at!! It's interesting to think that in 1983 Jeeps were considered expensive. A J10 went for around $13,000. A standard sedan was in the $6,000 range. My Mercedes 300SD sold for over $38,000. So, if we put things in perspective today and note that a KJ is selling for $26K, we have to remember that a new Benz can easily go for over $70K. After driving the WJ a lot today it does remind me in many ways of an SJ, EXCEPT for the visibility, and of course the lack of puddles of oil and other fluids... ;) The feel on the road and off road is very much Grand Wagoneerish, although it is more refined and even nicer. If the WJ had the visibility (aka Panoscopic Vision) of the older SJ I'd be totally happy. :) The WJ does remind me of my Mercedes too... the climate control system for example... if you don't do things just right it'll blow hot air even when you want cold, just like my Benz!!! I'm having the dealer examine that guppy next week under warranty though... Rube Goldberg seemed to influence not only the design of the 123/126 chassis but the the WJ as well it appears. ;) I'm looking forward to getting back in SuperDawg. We're in the design phase of an adapter to mate the AisinWarner to the NP219. IF that fails then I'll head up to BC and buy an NP242. Once we get the connection things will go pretty fast... He's getting a complete makeover. We gutted the '96 XJ and will even use the XJ steering column with cruise control on the wheel, and the mechanical airbag. I figure if I hit anything hard enough to fire off that airbag I won't mind it working. The XJ it came out of destroyed the front axle and underside of the Jeep and it didn't go off... so I figure it'll be ok. :) The WJ is a nice rig and I'll let my wife decide what Jeep she wants. The KJ is in the mid-20's nicely equipped, but we could get an older XJ fully loaded for much less and use the money to do other things... (like more upgrades on SuperDawg maybe? ;) One thing is certain, she does NOT want a FSJ or a Diesel Benz. ;) She drove the '87 XJ today, of course with 267,800 miles it's not the tightest ship on the sea... but she did like it... So, we'll see what she thinks of the WJ... of course I'll probably drive it again tomorrow... I'll let her take it Saturday, I've got to run my Benz down to Seattle to get an injector swapped... think I have it sold. :) Then I have to go visit SuperDawg and Rambo... ;) ttyl, john current collection: - '87 Jeep Cherokee Laredo - 267,xxx miles and going strong and going away later... - '67 Jeep J-100 Panel "Rambo" (soon to have a new home, well, it's already there... ;) - 83 Mercedes 300SD - maybe heading for a new home in a couple of weeks... - '83 J10 Stepside "SuperDawg" getting a '96 xj 4.0L HO engine/Aisin Warner 4speed auto - '99 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited - all legal now, but needed calipers... brakes drag... :( can you say "warranty"? I knew you could... this is a very NEW experience for me... I think I'm going to like it... maybe... ;) (there's a '67 fairlane and an '88 Buick here too... but they don't count... ;) - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:14:40 -0400 From: "Ray (lists)" Subject: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] alphabet Jeep report (DaimlerChrysler) > Anyway, while at the dealership I decided to check out the new KJ (liberty). > > the KJ is a nice rig, easy access to the back, unlike XJ's or SJ's. You sit > up nicely with plenty of headroom, I know you need lots of headroom ;-) > adequate visibility, but visibility > still not as good forward > as an SJ, or even as good as an XJ, but better than a ZJ or WJ. The mechanic gave me a '92 YJ as a loaner (he's trying to sell it). I have been loving it (that 4.0 liter engine kicks tail), but I miss the good visability of my SJ. He gave it to a woman to test drive, and she decided not to buy it. She said that she would have to wear two bras because of the ride. > > It comes with a 3.7L V6, sweet sounding motor, felt nice, responsive. I > didn't > take it for a long drive as the salesman pointed out that one rig racked up > 500 miles > rather quickly, and since I am still in the "figuring out what kind of Jeep > I really want mode" > I didn't ask to go further. :) I have heard good things about that engine. > > The ride and suspension are somewhere between a TJ and an XJ, > in a nice way. Felt solid, tight and controllable. There are stout bars > underneath > for the IFS and tucked up nicely. There are even rollers under the rear > axle parts so > if you get up on something it'll let you roll over!!! Very cool. I still > like solid axles > but I think I'd give this one a chance... looks like they set it up well, > much better underneath > than most Independent Suspension rigs... Ever drive an M151? How about a Hummer? Both of those rigs are four-wheel IFS. IFS is great if it's designed right. Most "consumer" IFS rigs are designed for on-road ride with little or no thought given to the trail. > > I like the tailgate setup in back, rear window flips up, then the tailgate > that holds the rear spare swings to the left. Rear seats fold down with > a split in the middle. not a large cargo area, but adequate. With an empty nest, it ought to do well for you :) > > I especially liked the look of the hood from the driver's seat, nice shape. > The controls for the windows are in the center console. Kind of spartan, but > then again remember I'd been cruising all day long in the top of the line > WJ... shoot, > my 300SD seems spartan after that ride. ;) Worrying about ride is an indication of advancing old age :-) ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1348 **************************