From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Jul 16 23:15:44 2001 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Sunday, July 15 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1383 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: extended warranty, is it worth it??? Re: fsj: extended warranty, is it worth it??? fsj: Re: broken stud in manifold Re: fsj: extended warranty, is it worth it??? fsj: Subject: Re: broken stud in manifold fsj: RE: New picture of Max fsj: Re: warranty fsj: List moderator fsj: RE: List moderator fsj: Re: carpeting for Jeep J10 Re: fsj: List moderator Re: fsj: List moderator Re: fsj: more parts found... fsj: RE: extended warranties fsj: Clutch Linkage Problems (kind of long) FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 10:59:32 -0400 From: mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net Subject: Re: fsj: extended warranty, is it worth it??? Supertech Warrenty eh, I think I have that on my 97 LeSabre. They fixed my gas gauge with no hassle so I can't complain Mike john wrote: > > Ordinarily I'd say no way to extended warranties on consumer goods... but > on a used Jeep that's a theft recovery item, I'm on the fence... so is my > mechanic... The fact that I can get it is encouraging, and a powerful tool if > I decide to sell it... > > So, I'm trying to figure out it if it's worth spending $2,250 for a 4 year > 60,000 miles "SuperTech" National Warranty on the '99 WJ.  It's > 0 deductible and covers everything, so they say.  The odometer shows > 32,000 miles right now, but I think it has closer to 45,000 miles on it.  Runs > great, only a few "issues" like brakes, key programming and a bearing noise > to deal with yet... > > I talked to my mechanic, he says that the contracts are a pain to > deal with, that the part has to be clearly broken, you need preapproval > and in most cases you don't want to do it. > > However, in this case it might be worth it... his guess was 50/50...  and > that if I decide to sell it I should get it.  Since it's a theft recovery it > might make sense to do it because there is no way of knowing what else > might be afllicted, affected or abused. ;) > > I can't afford to buy it and I'm not sure I can't afford not to buy it... If I > get it I'll have to finance it... > > On the other hand, I've already spent $385 for new rotors and $620 to > get the rear bearings fixed...  I guess it wouldn't take too long to spend > $2,250, especially over 60,000 miles and four years.  Especially considering > the prospect of programming another key for this thing, I may have to > replace the computers...  hmmmm... > > Has anyone dealt with this warranty before?  Horror stories?  Ok results? > Would you do it again?    This is about the newest vehicle I've ever had > but I am rather used to fixing stuff myself... > > Remember I'm in digest mode...  so if you don't mind cc'ing me on your > thoughts I'd appreciate it... I know that most of us have older rigs... but I'm > sure someone out there has dealt with this warranty before... (this is the > one that allows me to go any where I want.) > > john-at-wagoneers.com > ------------------------------------------------------ >              http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >   Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >       jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 10:59:47 -0400 From: mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net Subject: Re: fsj: extended warranty, is it worth it??? Supertech Warrenty eh, I think I have that on my 97 LeSabre. They fixed my gas gauge with no hassle so I can't complain Mike john wrote: > > Ordinarily I'd say no way to extended warranties on consumer goods... but > on a used Jeep that's a theft recovery item, I'm on the fence... so is my > mechanic... The fact that I can get it is encouraging, and a powerful tool if > I decide to sell it... > > So, I'm trying to figure out it if it's worth spending $2,250 for a 4 year > 60,000 miles "SuperTech" National Warranty on the '99 WJ.  It's > 0 deductible and covers everything, so they say.  The odometer shows > 32,000 miles right now, but I think it has closer to 45,000 miles on it.  Runs > great, only a few "issues" like brakes, key programming and a bearing noise > to deal with yet... > > I talked to my mechanic, he says that the contracts are a pain to > deal with, that the part has to be clearly broken, you need preapproval > and in most cases you don't want to do it. > > However, in this case it might be worth it... his guess was 50/50...  and > that if I decide to sell it I should get it.  Since it's a theft recovery it > might make sense to do it because there is no way of knowing what else > might be afllicted, affected or abused. ;) > > I can't afford to buy it and I'm not sure I can't afford not to buy it... If I > get it I'll have to finance it... > > On the other hand, I've already spent $385 for new rotors and $620 to > get the rear bearings fixed...  I guess it wouldn't take too long to spend > $2,250, especially over 60,000 miles and four years.  Especially considering > the prospect of programming another key for this thing, I may have to > replace the computers...  hmmmm... > > Has anyone dealt with this warranty before?  Horror stories?  Ok results? > Would you do it again?    This is about the newest vehicle I've ever had > but I am rather used to fixing stuff myself... > > Remember I'm in digest mode...  so if you don't mind cc'ing me on your > thoughts I'd appreciate it... I know that most of us have older rigs... but I'm > sure someone out there has dealt with this warranty before... (this is the > one that allows me to go any where I want.) > > john-at-wagoneers.com > ------------------------------------------------------ >              http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >   Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >       jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 09:04:20 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: broken stud in manifold use a propane torch to hit just the stud... just warm it up a bit and you won't hurt anything... you're only trying to dissolve the rust and loosen the stud. I'd have the hole drilled for the ezout first, then hit it with the propane torch for a little bit and try to bring it out. Another trick is to cool it down a bunch with some freeze spray so it contracts. I'd drill for the ezout, try to turn it, if it resists at all I'd hit it with the torch, then spray amsoil mp, then try again, if it resists then I'd hit it with some cold shot... soak, heat, cold... but don't get it glowing red and you'll be ok... ;) I bought some pbblaster but usually use amsoil mp, or even brake fluid for stuff like that... haven't really seen any miracles with the blaster... but I'll keep trying... the amsoil mp works so nicely and doesn't foam and splatter... buying the best tool for this job is an excellent idea. At 02:26 AM 7/15/01 -0500, Obi-Wan wrote: > >> Say, got any pointers on removing a broken exhaust manifold stud from > >> a cylinder head ('95 2.5L)? Head & engine are still in vehicle. I > >> don't want to warp the head or break an easy-out off in the old stud. > > > > been there... soak it in penetrant, brake fluid, etc... > >Already started hitting it with PB Blaster. > > > if you can grab > > any of the stud it'd be nice, > >I'll know more after I get the manifold removed, but feeling aound the >manifold hole with my pinky indicates there's not much sticking out past >the head. MPI adds a lot of stuff to remove before you can get to the >manifold. > > > otherwise the ez out routine... > >I've seen lots of easy-outs break. I'm gonna run to Sears tomorrow >and buy the most expensive one I can find in hopes that it will be >of higher quality than the others I've broken. > > > you're not likely to warp the head... just take your time and drill in > > straight... > > it'll be a pain, but it's doable. :) > >My fear of warpage came from a suggestion to heat the surrounding >surface (the head, in this case) with a torch. That approach, combined >with liberal use of PB Blaster, generally works well, but intense, >localized heat doesn't sit well with certain objects. > > -- Obi-Wan > '95.5 YJ, '77 Wag > >-- >Ben "Obi-Wan" Hollingsworth obiwan-at-jedi.com > The stuff of earth competes for the allegiance I owe only to the > Giver of all good things, so if I stand, let me stand on the > promise that You will pull me through. -- Rich Mullins - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 09:06:35 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: extended warranty, is it worth it??? At 10:59 AM 7/15/01 -0400, mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net wrote: >Supertech Warrenty eh, I think I have that on my 97 LeSabre. They fixed my >gas gauge with no hassle so I can't complain >Mike did you go to the dealer or an independent shop for the work? john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 10:19:28 -0700 From: Brigart Anderson Subject: fsj: Subject: Re: broken stud in manifold Just another little tip.... I usually heat it up a little first before drilling. I use map gas. Just a bit hotter than propane. Then use a left handed drill bit to drill the hole for the easy out. Half of the time the left handed drill bit will turn the broken piece right out for you. Start with a small bit, to ensure a straight hole then step up to the correct size for the easy out you are using. Just went through the same process on a caliper stud this week. Good luck Brigart Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:24:03 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: RE: New picture of Max the rack might survive a branch, but those lights wouldn't :) we can't even mount CB antennas on our back quarter panels, they get peeled off by stumps... have to put 'em on the front fenders up by the mirrors. :) http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/JC-Jones-J-truck-Max/before-n-after-max.jpg At 01:18 PM 7/15/01 -0600, JC Jones wrote: >The front outer 2 lights are the ones most often used, however the front >inner 2 are aimed lower which is nice sometimes. They can be switched in >pairs with a head light switch: >parking light position : Front Outer 2 lights; >Headlight position : All 4 front lights; > >The top 3 center lights are nice for distance lighting, and lighting further >up a steep hill to see what's coming, and the outer 2 are facing about 30 >degrees outward which is nice to see off the trail on both sides. They are >also switched in 2 stages on another headlight switch: >parking light position : Forward facing 3 lights >Headlight position : All 5 top lights > >All the lights run off an auxiliary electrical system that will be isolated >from the primary vehicle electrical system as soon as I find a good location >for the 2nd alternator that will be fully isolated via carbon plastic >mounting brackets. > >As far as the durability of the top lights on the trail, the light bar is >bolted through the roof with grade 8 bolts with a crossmember made of medium >guage (heavier then the sheet metal on the truck) stainless steel, and the >light housings are heavy guage steel bolted to the light bar with 5/8" grade >8 bolts, the bulbs are sealed beam police dual focus spot/flood bulbs (very >thick glass), and have steel mesh impact guards. They will take quite a >blow before they get any damage. The only way to knock the bar off the roof >would be to either shear grade 8 bolts, or rip 4 3" diameter holes in the >sheet metal of the roof (the bolts have 3" diameter fender washers on the >inside). > >The weakest accessorys are the whip antenna's which could be broken fairly >easily, but I carry a spare mag-mount CB antenna just in case that happens. >I also carry a spare hand held CB radio too just in case. > >Most of the trails around here have a very high foliage celing (when there >is one at all), pine trees don't usually hang over the trails much as they >are wider at the bottom then the top. > >You are right, it's very very ususual that all the lights come into play, >but on that rare occasion it's nice to have them. Not to mention it does >alot for the uniqueness of Max over all the other trucks out there. When it >comes to setting up campsites or making major repairs on the trail at night, >usually people are pretty glad that I have all that light available >(including the police spot light on the side). > >JC :) > >--> -----Original Message----- >--> From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] >--> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 12:21 PM >--> To: JC Jones >--> Subject: RE: New picture of Max >--> >--> >--> >--> what's with all those lights??? >--> those on the roof would last about one trail run here... >--> >--> I'd say you're already at wild... >--> >--> btw, I put that picture up in http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/ >--> JC something >--> jtruck >--> >--> john >--> >--> At 10:49 AM 7/15/01 -0600, you wrote: >--> >Actually, it had just gotten done raining when I took the >--> "After" picture. >--> >That and all the dirt has gotten washed off. >--> > >--> >I'm still trying to come up with color ideas for after I get >--> the M715 bed >--> >and fenders on. I have been tossing back and fouth between "mild" and >--> >"wild". >--> > >--> >JC :) >--> > >--> >--> -----Original Message----- >--> >--> From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] >--> >--> Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 11:58 PM >--> >--> To: JC Jones >--> >--> Subject: Re: New picture of Max >--> >--> >--> >--> >--> >--> >--> >--> very cool... did you paint it or just polish it up? >--> >--> >--> >--> I combined the 2 pix... ;) >--> >--> john >--> >--> >--> >--> At 11:19 PM 7/14/01 -0600, you wrote: >--> >--> >I was just looking through some of my pictures of Max and I >--> >--> found "Before" >--> >--> >and "After" pictures of him parked in about the same place. >--> >--> > >--> >--> >"Before" was April 1, 2001 >--> >--> >"After" is July 13, 2001 >--> >--> > >--> >--> >Only 3 months and 12 days passed since he arrived as a >--> >--> not-running basket >--> >--> >case on a trailer. >--> >--> > >--> >--> >JC :) - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:39:28 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: warranty At 03:23 PM 7/15/01 -0400, mudpuppy wrote: >Do you plan on keeping it stock? yep, a stock WJ with Quadradrive needs no modifications... the tires are 255/70 16s! locked up three ways! it's wonderful. :) If this thing had better visibility it'd be an FSJ! > If I go one size larger on my tires(215/75/15 up to 225/75/15)it will void >my warranty on my new vitara. > Read the fine print very carefully. sounds like good advice, need to do more research. >Also when my check engine soon light came on I called the dealer,they told >me that if they didn't find anything wrong when they hooked it up to the >computer it would cost me $70.00. yeah, they dinged me for the key programming they didn't do. Started out "under warranty" and then they weaseled out because of the VIN change... I really don't like dealer service departments. > The light went out on it's own.I talked to a different mechanic and he >said that if 2 different people with different driving styles(My wife and >I)drive the same car with O.B.D.2 it could cause the light to go on. > My vote is save your money,You may end up paying for the >ex.warranty,something goes wrong,they say it's your fault and you end up >paying for the repair anyway. Dave well, that's the problem, repairs could easily exceed the price over 4 years, but is it worth the hassle of dealing with a warranty company? If I go to sell the rig it'll be easier with a warranty though... tough call... thanx for the input... john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 15:58:00 EDT From: Chrisharon-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: List moderator I'd like to voice an opinion here, and see if anybody agrees and/or this is a good idea. I'd prefer that when you hit 'reply', it automatically went to the list adress instead of the individual who wrote that particular E-mail. This is just my opinion here... :) Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 14:26:41 -0600 From: "JC Jones" Subject: fsj: RE: List moderator I second that :) All my other lists do that, and sometimes I forget to either "Reply All" or type in the list address here. JC Jones - --> -----Original Message----- - --> From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of - --> Chrisharon-at-aol.com - --> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 1:58 PM - --> To: fsj-at-digest.net - --> Subject: fsj: List moderator - --> - --> - --> I'd like to voice an opinion here, and see if anybody agrees - --> and/or this - --> is a good idea. I'd prefer that when you hit 'reply', it - --> automatically went - --> to the list adress instead of the individual who wrote that - --> particular E-mail. - --> This is just my opinion here... :) - --> - --> Chris - --> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 16:42:31 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: carpeting for Jeep J10 From: Pat Hines >Yes, but from which source did you buy it? JC Whitney. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 16:32:00 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: List moderator Chrisharon-at-aol.com said: {- I'd like to voice an opinion here, and see if anybody agrees and/or this {- is a good idea. I'd prefer that when you hit 'reply', it automatically went {- to the list adress instead of the individual who wrote that particular E-mai {- l. {- This is just my opinion here... :) Having had problems with that on other lists in the past, my vote is for the current method. Mainly because if you mess up and forget to change the address, this way, just one person gets a duplicate email or something, as opposed to something private going to the entire list by accident. But I can deal with it either way, if you guys can deal with the mistakes. :) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- An Entomological Discourse | Little bugs have on their backs on Marxist Dialectic | bigger bugs that bite 'em. -- Ogden Nash | And bigger bugs have bigger still | and so ad infinitum. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 14:49:03 -0700 From: Pat Hines Subject: Re: fsj: List moderator Dan, It's not worth the trouble to change from the current method. I have to hit reply all, then delete the individual who sent the message I'm responding to. Most of the time I remember to do this, sometimes not. I don't want to be concerned about it, I'm here for fun, I'm not concerned about getting two copies of a message when someone responds to what I've written. Pat Dan Black wrote: > > Chrisharon-at-aol.com said: > {- I'd like to voice an opinion here, and see if anybody agrees and/or this > {- is a good idea. I'd prefer that when you hit 'reply', it automatically went > {- to the list adress instead of the individual who wrote that particular E-mai > {- l. > {- This is just my opinion here... :) > > Having had problems with that on other lists in the past, my vote is for > the current method. Mainly because if you mess up and forget to change > the address, this way, just one person gets a duplicate email or > something, as opposed to something private going to the entire list by > accident. > > But I can deal with it either way, if you guys can deal with the > mistakes. :) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 19:20:57 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: more parts found... At 08:30 PM 7/15/01 -0500, JeepNut wrote: >what kind of clips John? >To hold the chrome trim around the rear window to the body? no, these are the clips that hold the rear window to the arms. You need two. http://www.wagoneers.com/ebay/FSJ-July14/FSJ-rear-window-clips.jpg Don't need 'em on a J10... thankfully. :) If you recall I was going to switch my "dream" FSJ from my J10 to that pretty white Cherokee. I spent a couple hundred bucks on the rear window and a month getting the rig roadworthy, went up the drive, lowered the window and it didn't come back up... :( the only thing that went up is the for sale signs... and I cancelled the sale of the J10 to that guy in Europe. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 19:45:05 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: RE: extended warranties At 05:34 PM 7/15/01 -0400, Dan Jacobs wrote: > > extended warranty, is it worth it??? > >Ordinarilly, I'd say runn for the hills and don't look back, but: >Is it a warranty from the factory? Are you sure? it's through a dealer, they offer two kinds, one through the factory, one through an "independent". It's the SuperTech, or independent one. >Does it _really_ cover everything? Read it three times over and over again. the guy at the jeep dealer said they cover everything, but they require that the oil changes be kept up. >Can you really take it anywhere you want for repairs? yep >What if you decide to do any repairs? didn't ask that question... but why would I do it if someone else would? ;) >Will that void any part of the warranty? Sure you can put in >new brake pads faster than if you left it at the dealer, but will that void >the warranty on the brakes? Or the entire thing? hard to say... good questions. >I hate extended warratny contracts. E-mail the thing to a Jeep or MBZ owning >contract law attorney along with a check for $100 and see what they say :-) >Diesel Dan, your "herein, forthwith, and whatnot" man in Vancouver, WA haven't seen the fine print yet... suppose I should wander in to the dealer and snag a copy... don't need to pay an attorney for something I learned in college... unless it's written in such a way that basic contract law is obfuscated so badly that I need someone with a JD. ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 22:10:21 -0500 From: "Hello" Subject: fsj: Clutch Linkage Problems (kind of long) Hi All, First of all, sorry about the cross post, but I tried sending this question to just the fsj-digest list and no one answered. Hope I get a better response here. Over the past couple of weeks I have had to adjust the clutch linkage (mechanical) in Tank several times. Finally, a couple of days ago I had to adjust it two days in a row and it still felt mushy on the way home (just barely disengaging when to the floor). When I checked it out I found that one of the arms the inner one) on the bell crank was cracked and bent. Removed the bell crank, straightened the arm, and had it welded the next day. While putting it back on I noticed that the bottom end of the clutch push rod was worn about half in two where it goes through the bell crank arm (not the one welded). All is back together and working. However, as this is the second time this has happened, I would like to have a spare bell crank on hand. Also, I think I need to replace the clutch push rod. Here's my questions: Are these parts FJS specific, or can they be found on some other vehicle of that era? Also, is there more than one model of push rod? The TSM shows a long push rod with a very short 'L' piece on the lower end at the bell crank arm. The 'L' piece shown has external threads on both legs of the 'L', one set of threads providing length adjustment and the other attaching to the bell crank arm with a nut. The other piece extends from the pedal through the floor and has internal treads to mate with the short 'L'. Any length adjustment must be made from under the vehicle. The push rod in Tank is of two pieces of almost equal length. Both pieces are long 'L's. Each has a short arm with a cotter pin hole to attach to the pedal and bell crank, respectively. The long arm of each has internal threads and they meet about 2" - 3" above the floorboard, inside the cab. Length adjustment is accomplished by a double threaded stub (regular threads on one end and reverse on the other, with a hex in the middle) between the two rods. By turning the hex the rod ends are moved closer or further apart (like a turnbuckle). Any assistance greatly appreciated. ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1383 **************************