From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Jul 25 17:18:21 2001 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, July 25 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1397 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Off-topic Re: fsj: Liberty.. is really butt ugly RE: fsj: Liberty.. is really butt ugly Re: fsj: Off-topic...brain buster answer... Re: fsj: Source for '90GW lug nuts? & Best Differential oil? Re: fsj: Liberty.. is really butt ugly Re: fsj: Liberty.. is really butt ugly Re: fsj: Re: J-20 parts truck Re: fsj: listmom auxillary action... fsj: oops! Re: fsj: remove bed on j10? Re: fsj: Liberty.. is really butt ugly Re: fsj: FW: [JEEP-L] Looking at Wagoneers fsj: Re: J-20 for parts fsj: Re: [1FSJ] Re: Off-topic fsj: System Administrator Appreciation Day - Friday July 27, 2001 (fwd) FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:12:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Alexander Wall Subject: fsj: Off-topic Off topic, and I apologize. There are some unusually bright folks on these lists (even though we do have FSJs), and I would like someone to explain this, if possible: http://www.millionjokes.com/viewpictureday.cfm?ID=2689 Thanks! ===== Alexander Wall Spokane, WA ================================================================= "Where there's a will, there's a way." - Eliza Cook "Where there's a way, there's a construction crew disrupting traffic!" - Alex Wall ================================================================= Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:37:13 -0700 (PDT) From: this space for rent Subject: Re: fsj: Liberty.. is really butt ugly I couldnt agree with you more. I saw it plastered on a billboard several months back. It just doesnt look like a jeep at all. I have an "88 GW that owns me, so maybe Im just partial to the square boxy look of a jeep. Of course, I didnt like it when they put the square headlights on the wrangler either. - --- "R.J. Baynum" wrote: > Yes .. I was just saying that to someone on another > list ( FSJ_SE ) southeast > that very same thing.. it swallowed a VW Bug.. > > R.J. > > 80 J-10 Honcho > > > Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 01:14:03 -0000 > From: "John Rowe" > Subject: Jeep Liberty > > I would just like to know if I am the only one who > thinks the new > Jeep Liberty is kind of ugly. > > John Rowe Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:14:57 -0400 From: George Milam Subject: RE: fsj: Liberty.. is really butt ugly Hello: I have a question. What kind of a job is it to replace (on an '89 Grand Wagoneer) the rear driver's side quarter panel with a rust free one from a salvage yard? Is it something that I can do with my regular at home workbench tools? Is it just a matter of removing bolts and screwing the new/used one on? Any feed-back is apreciated. Thanks, George '89 Grand Wagoneer Dorset, VT - -----Original Message----- From: this space for rent [mailto:fleagle_5-at-yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 11:37 AM To: R.J. Baynum; FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com Cc: fsj-at-digest.net; fsj_se-at-yahoogroups.com; fsjeeps-at-smartgroups.com; JeepsOnline-at-yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: fsj: Liberty.. is really butt ugly I couldnt agree with you more. I saw it plastered on a billboard several months back. It just doesnt look like a jeep at all. I have an "88 GW that owns me, so maybe Im just partial to the square boxy look of a jeep. Of course, I didnt like it when they put the square headlights on the wrangler either. - --- "R.J. Baynum" wrote: > Yes .. I was just saying that to someone on another > list ( FSJ_SE ) southeast > that very same thing.. it swallowed a VW Bug.. > > R.J. > > 80 J-10 Honcho > > > Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 01:14:03 -0000 > From: "John Rowe" > Subject: Jeep Liberty > > I would just like to know if I am the only one who > thinks the new > Jeep Liberty is kind of ugly. > > John Rowe Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:45:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Loxtercamp Subject: Re: fsj: Off-topic...brain buster answer... This had me stumped for a bit as well. If you take a look at the green and red triangles, their slopes are different...the red is 3/8 (.375) and the green is 2/5 (.4). So, if you take a the assembled object as a whole (all four pieces), it is not a triangle...it is a four sided object. The line away from the right angle is not one straight line, it is two lines approximating a straight line. The top picture has the side away from the right angle 'punched in' a bit, whereas the lower one has it 'punched out' a bit. This 'punching' affects the constructed objects area...smaller on top and larger on the bottom. The difference, I suspect, is one square unit. I haven't the time to provide a formal proof, but this should be good enough... Greg Loxtercamp - --- Alexander Wall wrote: > Off topic, and I apologize. > > There are some unusually bright folks on these lists (even though we do > have FSJs), > and I would like someone to explain this, if possible: > > http://www.millionjokes.com/viewpictureday.cfm?ID=2689 > > Thanks! > > ===== > Alexander Wall > Spokane, WA > ================================================================= > "Where there's a will, there's a way." - Eliza Cook > "Where there's a way, there's a construction crew disrupting traffic!" - Alex > Wall > ================================================================= > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:23:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Source for '90GW lug nuts? & Best Differential oil? A: Condensed version (you CAN ask more than one thing per email! LOL!) 75W-90 for non-towing applications, and synthetic is SUPOSED to save fuel (all it did in Elmo was leak out faster!) The FSJ wheel nuts are 1/2" thread (except my newly redone axles which will be 14mm to accomodate my '89 Chev 1 ton 6 bolt rims that take the ball style wheel nuts). Available at most parts stores for $10/4 or so (x6 = $60 still) Check out 6 Roblees if there is one near you (Mine will cost less than my cost through my store!) From: mike-at-tangledroots.com (Michael Powell) What's the best Diff Oil to use in a '90 GW? I use the vehicle mostly for just basic road driving. What's the difference between synthetic and non-synthetic? From: mike-at-tangledroots.com (Michael Powell) Does anybody know of a good source for original looking lug nuts for a '90 GW? I'd like to find some that are cheap, with a long lasting chrome finish, and strong! The dealer charges around $4 a nut. Sorry, but I can't spare $100 for a set a lug nuts. Thanks, Mike Powell ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:28:11 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Re: fsj: Liberty.. is really butt ugly As far as I know.. yes, there is not much to it. But I would get a TSM first, just in case.. R.J. George Milam wrote: > > Hello: > > I have a question. What kind of a job is it to replace (on an '89 Grand > Wagoneer) the rear driver's side quarter panel with a rust free one from a > salvage yard? Is it something that I can do with my regular at home > workbench tools? Is it just a matter of removing bolts and screwing the > new/used one on? > > Any feed-back is apreciated. > > Thanks, > > George > '89 Grand Wagoneer > Dorset, VT > > -----Original Message----- > From: this space for rent [mailto:fleagle_5-at-yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 11:37 AM > To: R.J. Baynum; FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com > Cc: fsj-at-digest.net; fsj_se-at-yahoogroups.com; fsjeeps-at-smartgroups.com; > JeepsOnline-at-yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: fsj: Liberty.. is really butt ugly > > I couldnt agree with you more. I saw it plastered on a > billboard several months back. It just doesnt look > like a jeep at all. I have an "88 GW that owns me, so > maybe Im just partial to the square boxy look of a > jeep. Of course, I didnt like it when they put the > square headlights on the wrangler either. > --- "R.J. Baynum" > wrote: > > Yes .. I was just saying that to someone on another > > list ( FSJ_SE ) southeast > > that very same thing.. it swallowed a VW Bug.. > > > > R.J. > > > > 80 J-10 Honcho > > > > > > Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 01:14:03 -0000 > > From: "John Rowe" > > Subject: Jeep Liberty > > > > I would just like to know if I am the only one who > > thinks the new > > Jeep Liberty is kind of ugly. > > > > John Rowe > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:28:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Loxtercamp Subject: Re: fsj: Liberty.. is really butt ugly Uh, wait a second, it seems that you have to cut off the old one then spot weld the new one on. Then bondo it, sand, prime & paint. To me, that seems like a big deal... Greg - --- "R.J. Baynum" wrote: > As far as I know.. yes, there is not much to it. But I would get a TSM first, > just > in case.. > > R.J. > > George Milam wrote: > > > > Hello: > > > > I have a question. What kind of a job is it to replace (on an '89 Grand > > Wagoneer) the rear driver's side quarter panel with a rust free one from a > > salvage yard? Is it something that I can do with my regular at home > > workbench tools? Is it just a matter of removing bolts and screwing the > > new/used one on? > > > > Any feed-back is apreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > > > George > > '89 Grand Wagoneer > > Dorset, VT > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: this space for rent [mailto:fleagle_5-at-yahoo.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 11:37 AM > > To: R.J. Baynum; FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com > > Cc: fsj-at-digest.net; fsj_se-at-yahoogroups.com; fsjeeps-at-smartgroups.com; > > JeepsOnline-at-yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: fsj: Liberty.. is really butt ugly > > > > I couldnt agree with you more. I saw it plastered on a > > billboard several months back. It just doesnt look > > like a jeep at all. I have an "88 GW that owns me, so > > maybe Im just partial to the square boxy look of a > > jeep. Of course, I didnt like it when they put the > > square headlights on the wrangler either. > > --- "R.J. Baynum" > > wrote: > > > Yes .. I was just saying that to someone on another > > > list ( FSJ_SE ) southeast > > > that very same thing.. it swallowed a VW Bug.. > > > > > > R.J. > > > > > > 80 J-10 Honcho > > > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 01:14:03 -0000 > > > From: "John Rowe" > > > Subject: Jeep Liberty > > > > > > I would just like to know if I am the only one who > > > thinks the new > > > Jeep Liberty is kind of ugly. > > > > > > John Rowe > > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:36:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: J-20 parts truck A: Keep in mind the Truck axle is WIDER than a Wag axle by about 6"! (You can read the stuff after this line if you want, but I wrote it BEFORE rereading the post! LOL!) A J20 will have a D60 rear axle (it's a 3/4 ton) Would likely have a D20, but definitely not a quadatrac (they came behind TH400 AT only, except the NP219 from '80/'81) This reminds me of the song Pickup man! "You can set my truck on fire and roll it down a hill, but I still wouldn't trade it for a Coupe Deville..." Hmm... instead of Karaoke, maybe we can have Car-ioke! Or even Jeep-ioke! LOL! PS: I have a tape of the Jeepsong by Klattu! From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com From: "J. Grammer" Called about a '76 J-20 FS locally.......rolled down a hill into an oak tree :( .   Grille and hood are toast, bent frame and p/s front spring. 360, owner says T-18 4 speed and Dana 20 t-case, does that sound right? Also said the rear D60 axle has an offset pumpkin....I thought a D20 had a centered output, did they really use an offset D60 in these?? I'm not sure how well this applies to a J-truck, but... on a Wagoneer the rear axle that goes with a Dana 20 is actually slightly offset -- probably to make a little extra room for the gas tank. The axle for the q-trac is more offset. However, either t-case can be substituted for the other with negligable driveline problems. Maybe it's got the stock axle and t-case and he's correct that the diff is not quite centered. Maybe it's got a q-trac rear axle and he's correct that the rear diff is offset. Seems like I've heard that after about '74 they used the same rear axle for either t-case on J-trucks and Cherokees. However it turns out, I wouldn't be inclined to worry about it until I'd seen it. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:41:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: listmom auxillary action... A: I have already received nearly 100 copies from people I know. Good thing Webtv is attachment-proof! From: john just a quick note on the current virus activity, it's called SirCam.       It has a variety of forms.   Here's details:       http://vil.nai.com/vil/virusSummary.asp?virus_k=99141                 This is one reason why we don't allow attachments on this list. :) email me off list for details on how to deal with it... Please don't post any more info or details to the lists on it. Thanx to those that did. This is serious, but some folks get annoyed by off-topic posts...   (I know, I know, I'm the worst offender... rofl... :) john - ------------------------------ ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:42:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: fsj: oops! Forgot to readdress that! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:59:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: remove bed on j10? From: d.k.elliott-at-mindspring.com >I tentatively have found a good bed for my shortbed 1984 j10. The bed is a few hours drive from where I live. I don't have a trailer that will easily handle it and I am wondering about taking the bed off mine here, driving there without the bed and installing the new bed on it there. Any thoughts on this? A: Tail-lights? I used my tow lights when I took the bed off my '69 Ford to move stuff around with my buddy's flatdeck. Why not get some pipe that fits in your box's post holes and put the new box on upside down? >Any tricks to getting the bed off? (I'm assuming four bolts hold it on). A: More like 8. 2 hide under the back. >I'm also wondering about the gas tank and filler. Does anyone know if the bed will come off without disturbing the gas tank? Has anyone driven a j10 without a bed? Any dangers I need to know about? thanks! Don Elliott Marietta, Georgia A: Dangers? Persnickety State Trooperrs! ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:03:10 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Re: fsj: Liberty.. is really butt ugly isn't it just screwed on? R.J. Greg Loxtercamp wrote: > > Uh, wait a second, it seems that you have to cut off the old one then spot weld > the new one on. Then bondo it, sand, prime & paint. > > To me, that seems like a big deal... > > Greg > > --- "R.J. Baynum" wrote: > > As far as I know.. yes, there is not much to it. But I would get a TSM first, > > just > > in case.. > > > > R.J. > > > > George Milam wrote: > > > > > > Hello: > > > > > > I have a question. What kind of a job is it to replace (on an '89 Grand > > > Wagoneer) the rear driver's side quarter panel with a rust free one from a > > > salvage yard? Is it something that I can do with my regular at home > > > workbench tools? Is it just a matter of removing bolts and screwing the > > > new/used one on? > > > > > > Any feed-back is apreciated. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > George > > > '89 Grand Wagoneer > > > Dorset, VT > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: this space for rent [mailto:fleagle_5-at-yahoo.com] > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 11:37 AM > > > To: R.J. Baynum; FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com > > > Cc: fsj-at-digest.net; fsj_se-at-yahoogroups.com; fsjeeps-at-smartgroups.com; > > > JeepsOnline-at-yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: fsj: Liberty.. is really butt ugly > > > > > > I couldnt agree with you more. I saw it plastered on a > > > billboard several months back. It just doesnt look > > > like a jeep at all. I have an "88 GW that owns me, so > > > maybe Im just partial to the square boxy look of a > > > jeep. Of course, I didnt like it when they put the > > > square headlights on the wrangler either. > > > --- "R.J. Baynum" > > > wrote: > > > > Yes .. I was just saying that to someone on another > > > > list ( FSJ_SE ) southeast > > > > that very same thing.. it swallowed a VW Bug.. > > > > > > > > R.J. > > > > > > > > 80 J-10 Honcho > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 01:14:03 -0000 > > > > From: "John Rowe" > > > > Subject: Jeep Liberty > > > > > > > > I would just like to know if I am the only one who > > > > thinks the new > > > > Jeep Liberty is kind of ugly. > > > > > > > > John Rowe > > > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:19:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: FW: [JEEP-L] Looking at Wagoneers - - -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Beiers >I am thinking about replacing my pickup with a Wagoneer and I have a few questions for you guys. A: Jeep makes pickups too! 8^P 1. Has/Does anyone tow with these. Its basically a 1/2 ton Drive train right? How is the 360 for a towing engine...I will probably put a projection kit on it. A: It's a heavy 1/2 medium 3/4 ton setup. The newer Chev ('88 up) one ton uses the same setup with larger wheel studs. (I'm switching mine to 14 mm to accomodate my '89 Chev 16" rims and 33" tires ) 2. Weren't these produced into the Chrysler era? If so what engine did they use? Did they go from the AMC 360 to a Mopar 360 or 318? A: Always AMC till '91. In '93 a fake GW was made with a Dodge V8 or Jeep I-6. 3. Aren't these bad boys fulltime 4wd? If so, is there a part time tcase modification that can be done? I would put manual locking hubs on it but I wonder if I could keep that front shaft from spinning. A: '62 to '73 were all part time AFAIK, then Borg Warner's Quadratrac came out in '74 to '79 with the TH400 auto tranny. The shift options were 4 hi, 4 lo and Edrive which locked front and rear together. (Part time Command-trac Dana 20 was still used with standards till '79, then Command-trac NP208 was used as the factory part time unit from '80 till '88, no doubt due to the fact Jeep switched from TH400 trannies in '79 to AMC pattern cased Dodge 727s in '80). New process made a quasi-QT NP219 in '80/'81. It had the shift options of 4hi, 4hi lock, N, and 4 lo locked. There is a part time kit for the BW unit, but some people seem less than impressed with it afterwards. '82 brought out the Selectrac NP229 till '91, with '86ish being NP228 (same as NP229, but no viscous coupler) It had the shift options of 2wd hi, 4hi, N, and 4 lo locked. 4. Any known years to look for or stay away from? A: Check the frame on '78 up behind the gas tank for rot. Mud gets trapped in there and rots it from the inside. '79 seems to be the trail grail for many people. 5. Anyone know where there is one for sale, looking for bargains A: Where and what condition/price range? 6. Anyone want to buy a 67 F-100 in good mechanical shape for, say, a grand :) thanks a lot guys, any help is greatly appreciated. Dan - - A: Not anymore! My Ford dys are over (except driving my wife's '99 Ranger with 3.0L V6 5 speed that has about 1/2 the power of my '86 Comanche with Jeep 4 cyl! AND it uses twice the gas, and can't haul a load!) ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:25:18 -0700 From: "J. Grammer" Subject: fsj: Re: J-20 for parts >I'm not sure how well this applies to a J-truck, but... >on a Wagoneer the rear axle that goes with a Dana 20 is actually slightly >offset -- probably to make a little extra room for the gas tank. The axle >for the q-trac is more offset. However, either t-case can be substituted for >the other with negligable driveline problems. > >Maybe it's got the stock axle and t-case and he's correct that the diff is >not quite centered. Maybe it's got a q-trac rear axle and he's correct that >the rear diff is offset. Seems like I've heard that after about '74 they >used the same rear axle for either t-case on J-trucks and Cherokees. However >it turns out, I wouldn't be inclined to worry about it until I'd seen it. > >Ben Williams Thanks, Ben. I went to look at it, and the D60 rear is way offset to the passenger side. I suspect you're right about them just using 1 axle for both. The bed is really straight, but now I'm down to just wanting the front axle si I'm probably going to take a pass unless someone else is interested in the balance of the truck. I don't really have time to part the whole truck right now. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 16:06:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Alexander Wall Subject: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] Re: Off-topic Wow - this has to be the sharpest group of, ummm, FSJ owners, anywhere! Thanks again, all! http://www.millionjokes.com/viewpictureday.cfm?ID=2689 ===== Alexander Wall Spokane, WA ================================================================= "Where there's a will, there's a way." - Eliza Cook "Where there's a way, there's a construction crew disrupting traffic!" - Alex Wall ================================================================= Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 16:32:26 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: System Administrator Appreciation Day - Friday July 27, 2001 (fwd) Once again, the annual event is here! This Friday is System Administrator Appreciation Day!!! http://www.sysadminday.com/ Friday, July 27th, 2001, is System Administrator Appreciation Day. On this special international day, give your System Administrator something that shows that you truly appreciate their hard work and dedication. Let's face it, System Administrators get no respect 364 days a year. This is the day that all fellow System Administrators across the globe, will be showered with expensive sports cars (or Jeeps!) and large piles of cash in appreciation of their diligent work. But seriously, we are asking for a nice token gift and some public acknowledgement. It's the least you could do. Consider all the daunting tasks and long hours (weekends too.) Let's be honest, sometimes we don't know our System Administrators as well as they know us. Remember this is one day to recognize your System Administrator for their workplace contributions and to promote professional excellence. Thank them for all the things they do for you and your business. see web site above for Gift Ideas :) john http://wagoneers.com/UNIX (HP-UX, Solaris, Linux, AIX, Irix, Ultrix... and so on... ;) ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1397 **************************