From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Dec 20 11:04:42 2001 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, December 20 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1524 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: 1968 jeep wagoneer Re: fsj: Re: 1968 jeep wagoneer Re: fsj: Re: 1968 jeep wagoneer fsj: from ditches to Diesels... fsj: Re: [FSJeeps] Re: 1968 jeep wagoneer fsj: Engine and tranny Swaps on a Wagoneer?? Re: fsj: Engine and tranny Swaps on a Wagoneer?? fsj: My Grand Wagoneer on Ebay fsj: damn green vehicles! fsj: Feb 2002 issue of Four Wheeler FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 20:13:50 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: 1968 jeep wagoneer At 07:32 PM 12/18/01 -0500, THERESA HARDIN wrote: >Hey John, > My cousin currently has a 1968 jeep wagoneer. It has a 350 AMC > daunghtless motor that has throwed a rod through the oil pan. Is there > any current engine that is available that would mount up to the existing > transmission without changing it. Or will he need to get a complete new > engine and tranny and put in? AMC engines are not easy to find here in > southern Indiana is there a substitute that you would recommend that he > uses. My email > is kshardin-at-blueriver.net I would > greatly appreciate your response. > > > >Thanks for your time, > >Artie Hardin > >Salem, In. Actually it is a Dauntless 350 motor, but it's NOT and AMC, which is a good thing for you. It's the Buick 350 V8. Since you have a TH400 it has an adapter ring. It's a univeral TH400. So you could put any Buick, Pontiac or Olds motor in there... GM had two patterns, BPO and Chevy. I'm pretty sure that's valid for '68... john - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 20:30:26 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 1968 jeep wagoneer > > At 07:32 PM 12/18/01 -0500, THERESA HARDIN wrote: > > Hey John, > > My cousin currently has a 1968 jeep wagoneer. It has a 350 AMC > > daunghtless motor that has throwed a rod through the oil pan. Is there > > any current engine that is available that would mount up to the existing > > transmission without changing it. Or will he need to get a complete new > > engine and tranny and put in? AMC engines are not easy to find here in > > southern Indiana is there a substitute that you would recommend that he > > uses. > > Actually it is a Dauntless 350 motor, but it's NOT and AMC, which is > a good thing for you. It's the Buick 350 V8. Since you have a TH400 it has > an adapter ring. It's a univeral TH400. > > So you could put any Buick, Pontiac or Olds motor in there... GM had two > patterns, BPO and Chevy. I'm pretty sure that's valid for '68... Yup. it's a buick 350. they're fairly easy to come by. That failing, this is just asking for either a buick 455, or a stroked olds 455 (like a 491 that a guy in paso robles makes). The buick 350 was a good engine though... but then again, I've got an apparent soft spot for buicks (*pats his sportwagon 400*) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 20:29:10 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 1968 jeep wagoneer hmmm... the 455 approach would be fun... :) you might want to rebuild the tranny first though... :) You could also do like I did to my '67 and install a 3.8L V6. Improved the fuel economy... I did that swap in the early '90s, the wag is still running around with that 3.8L... john At 08:30 PM 12/18/01 -0800, Kevin Pekarek wrote: > > > At 07:32 PM 12/18/01 -0500, THERESA HARDIN wrote: > > > Hey John, > > > My cousin currently has a 1968 jeep wagoneer. It has a 350 AMC > > > daunghtless motor that has throwed a rod through the oil pan. Is there > > > any current engine that is available that would mount up to the existing > > > transmission without changing it. Or will he need to get a complete new > > > engine and tranny and put in? AMC engines are not easy to find > here in > > > southern Indiana is there a substitute that you would recommend that he > > > uses. > > > > Actually it is a Dauntless 350 motor, but it's NOT and AMC, which is > > a good thing for you. It's the Buick 350 V8. Since you have a TH400 > it has > > an adapter ring. It's a univeral TH400. > > > > So you could put any Buick, Pontiac or Olds motor in there... GM had two > > patterns, BPO and Chevy. I'm pretty sure that's valid for '68... > >Yup. it's a buick 350. they're fairly easy to come by. That failing, this >is just asking for either a buick 455, or a stroked olds 455 (like a 491 >that a guy in paso robles makes). > >The buick 350 was a good engine though... but then again, I've got an apparent >soft spot for buicks (*pats his sportwagon 400*) > >K > >-- > >Kevin Pekarek >Redwood City, CA - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:39:07 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: from ditches to Diesels... re: flooding caused by paving contractor disturbance of a 20 year old culvert... met with a number of folks today about the flooding problem that eroded the wife's garden, our driveway, field and undermined the concrete slab on my carport/shop... seems that everyone agrees that the paving contractor created the problem by messing with the culvert. He shouldn't have, had no reason to and claims to have done nothing that would have created the problem, even threatened me if I called him again. (a variety of pictures and movies at: http://www.wagoneers.com/tmp/hillside-flood-Dec17-2001/ for you high speed connection types, all the jpgs in one html file: http://www.wagoneers.com/tmp/hillside-flood-Dec17-2001/ALL-jpgs.html http://www.wagoneers.com/tmp/hillside-flood-Dec17-2001/concrete-bridge.jpg the box the paving contractor installed is at one of the high points on the drive and serves no purpose... all the folks that look at it ask, why was it put there? nothing runs into it... turns out it allowed water to come up under pressure and flow into our garden, down our hill and even eroded under the pavement... http://www.wagoneers.com/tmp/hillside-flood-Dec17-2001/drainproblem.jpg you can see the carport off to the right down the hill, and further over the top of my neighbor's barn... http://www.wagoneers.com/tmp/hillside-flood-Dec17-2001/drainproblem2.jpg ) - ------------------- Went over to my neighbor's farm and worked on his little Diesel Tacaguchi or whatever it's called, tracked excavator... it wouldn't start... they've been trying for a week... I need it to excavate that messed up culvert... so I drove down in the WJ with tools in back and some serious rubber boots. The mud down there was ankle deep. :) I felt like I was in Elbonia. (a mythical country that is part of the Dilbert cartoon strip) :) Troubleshot the systems, it's a little Yanmar 3 cylinder Diesel, one glow plug on the air intake. Glow plug checked out good, and so did power going to it. Had fuel going into the pump, but none coming out of the injector lines... so we started talking about a shutoff solenoid... All I could find was a cable going to the back of the pump that appeared to go to a solenoid... pulled it off, moved the lever and it lit right off. :) Of course my neighbor, who is 70 years old, wasn't interested in the idea of driving it around that way... in order to shut it off he'd have to hop off, "run" around back, lift up the engine cover, reach behind the injection pump and turn it off... So he's chasing parts tomorrow. I thought about taking the solenoid and little gear box apart... but my experience with such systems, like a tailgate motor or rear wiper gearbox, has been less than enjoyable, and standing in 5 inches of gooey mud makes it difficult to retrieve parts and tools... so... we'll see how long it takes him. :) It's a good thing I had Quadradrive on the Grand Cherokee... I could tell it was working... :) that mud was deep... and made worse because of the flooding... I was directly below my shop... :) My neighbor pointed out that a lot of my runoff debris was all the way across his field... Of course I also had to dodge a few llamas... they didn't just move out of the way coming down either... :) should have looked for some of the parts I was looking for to fix my daughter's car... they were on my bench before it got toppled over and washed down the hill... :) Hopefully we'll see a few dry days later this week and we'll get the part to fix the little backhoe, open that culvert back up and connect those two pipes properly. Then figure out what to do with the rest of the carport. We measured 3.5' of concrete hanging out in free space... holding up part of the carport even. I may just cut a groove along the edge just past my support posts and then try to fill and support that over hang, if it does break off it'll hopefully snap clean. The other thing I'll have to do is sink some posts to hold the roof up off of the slab. It's that or tear the whole thing down and break up the slab and start over... :( I just had it all set up nicely too... it was clean and organized... It took me all summer and many loads to haul parts and scrap metal off... :) I should join packrats anonymous... :) Actually, I shouldn't do any repairs on it until I talk to an attorney... :( the repairs could run into the thousands if I have someone else do it... (read: do it correctly ;) Which is what I should do, I didn't create this mess... and punitive damages would seem appropriate in this situation because of the threat he made. We'll see... I just want my yard and drive and carport back to normal... I didn't ask for all this trouble... My insurance company is going to contact all county paving to see who their insurance company is... haven't heard back from the adjuster, but we did expect an interesting conversation. :) The state confirmed that there is nothing they can or will do. They route the runoff into a 12" culvert at the top and it's our problem from that point on. Unlikely that any permits were issued for the job. Not much I can do other than complain to the better business bureau and talk to an attorney... :( One sort of good thing is that we won't be parking the WJ in that carport until it's solid again... which works out good as I bring home the '77 Cherokee on Sunday... I'll park it in there because it'll hold up the carport and I'm not worried about it as much... :) thanx for all the ideas and suggestions... While the damage is expensive and a pain, it could have been worse... I just want to get that culvert fixed and the driveway regraded right away... then I'll figure out what to do with my shop... john - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 00:23:39 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: [FSJeeps] Re: 1968 jeep wagoneer A: Don't forget Caddy fits that ring too! (One of Doc's list members has a 562 cu in Caddy shoehorned in a M715) There may be some balance differences between motors so get a matching flexplate. DON'T use a 307 Olds motor (they suck!) At 07:32 PM 12/18/01 -0500, THERESA HARDIN wrote: Hey John, My cousin currently has a 1968 jeep wagoneer. It has a 350 AMC daunghtless motor that has throwed a rod through the oil pan. Is there any current engine that is available that would mount up to the existing transmission without changing it. Or will he need to get a complete new engine and tranny and put in? AMC engines are not easy to find here in southern Indiana is there a substitute that you would recommend that he uses. My email is kshardin-at-blueriver.net I would greatly appreciate your response. Thanks for your time, Artie Hardin Salem, In. Actually it is a Dauntless 350 motor, but it's NOT and AMC, which is a good thing for you. It's the Buick 350 V8. Since you have a TH400 it has an adapter ring. It's a univeral TH400. So you could put any Buick, Pontiac or Olds motor in there... GM had two patterns, BPO and Chevy. I'm pretty sure that's valid for '68... john ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:35:27 -0800 From: "Dan Shaw" Subject: fsj: Engine and tranny Swaps on a Wagoneer?? Hey all, I have a '77 jeep wagoneer, its not a grand wag, the standard. The engine runs but it will need work to get running great. A full rebuild is in order. We were conteplating putting in a hopped up chevy 350. Okay before the flame mail starts for dumping the 360, its just a thought, cost and ease of parts and the ability to work on it myself are driving me to ask the question. Has anyone done this? Its using a turbo 400 tranny so thats not an issue. The other consideration is smog requirements, I live in CA the capitol for hard ass smog requirements. Another wild thought!!! Even more of a long shot, anyone ever update the tranny to an overdrive unit like a 700R4? Ive seen 4wd versions with the tail piece similar to what is on there now. Coming back from Fantasy land now lol Thanks Dan dshaw3-at-mediaone.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 10:50:40 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: fsj: Engine and tranny Swaps on a Wagoneer?? > I have a '77 jeep wagoneer, its not a grand wag, the standard. The engine > runs but it will need work to get running great. A full rebuild is in > order. We were conteplating putting in a hopped up chevy 350. Okay before > the flame mail starts for dumping the 360, its just a thought, cost and ease > of parts and the ability to work on it myself are driving me to ask the > question. I make no mistake about hiding my bias... Chevy small blocks rank pretty low on my list of engines to drop in things. I don't like them, they don't like me, and we've essentially agreed to disagree. (Hell, I made friends with an olds 350 diesel... I'm a friendly guy) But, it is your truck, not mine. You are the one who has to drive it and maintain it, and I'd be in line to die for sacriledge right after you if I ever get around to stuffing a GM 6.2L diesel under the hood of a wagoneer ;) That aside, parts aren't THAT hard to find for a 360. The 360 was very common (as far as amc v8's go), and while you can't get an edelbrock victor jr. for them, rings, pistons, bearings, cam, lifters, etc are all pretty easy to come by. The stock carbs weren't anything spectacular, but there's good holley (or edelbrock) replacements that pass smog. The 360 also has a higher nickel content than your average small block, so unless you're putting in a bowtie racing block, the amc block is going to be stouter. For the chevy, you'd have to go get a block, on top of everything you'd have to do to the AMC engine, plus either buying or building adapters to get everything to go together. Unless you have all these parts already, including the adapters, it'll probably be at best a push. Don't forget that your time is worth something too. > Has anyone done this? Its using a turbo 400 tranny so thats not an issue. > The other consideration is smog requirements, I live in CA the capitol for > hard ass smog requirements. I've seen it, here in CA, and it was a 77 2-door chief. Went with TBI injection and everything (pulled from an 89 1/2 ton chevy). Funny thing was it didn't do as good as he thought it would... He had noticeably less throttle response and low end torque than the 360 he pulled from it. He ended up selling the truck off, actually. I wish I had bought it, was gonna stick a diesel in it. Regardless, you're in california too. Smog here isn't that bad once you get used to what you can and can't do. If you put anything under the hood of that jeep that doesn't look like a factory amc v8 (cause they check the sticker to see what you're supposed to have), instant fail. You need to go to the referee and get a new sticker installed on the vehicle. This process requires receipts for EVERYTHING, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that everything that you say is true. Engine must be newer than the chassis of the vehicle it's going in, and must pass smog for the year the ENGINE is. Some referee's will make you even go by the exhaust requirements of the newer year... Don't know about your wag, since mine's originally from montana, but mine doesn't have cats. If the referee requires newer exhaust requirements, you have to put cats on the truck. You don't necessarily have any rights with the smog system here in california, the environmentalists have all the power, and you have no room to negotiate. Nobody cares that the newer engine will pollute less. Nobody cares that there are people willing to endure the expense of a re-power which would help reduce air pollution. Nope, let's keep the old 1970's technology in there. > Another wild thought!!! Even more of a long shot, anyone ever update the > tranny to an overdrive unit like a 700R4? Ive seen 4wd versions with the > tail piece similar to what is on there now. I've considered this, but seeing as I don't spin too hard going down the freeway in the cherokee with the automatic, I'm waiting for the tranny to need to come down before I do anything about it. Being a TH400, this could be a while. I have q-trac and like it, and don't wanna stick a ton of adapters in the truck, so I was going to look into putting a buick style switch pitch converter in the TH-400. And there's no way in holy hell that I'm pulling a 401 out of a Z-code cherokee for some soft-cam valve-eating chevy ;) > Coming back from Fantasy land now lol My recommendation, thinking about the easiest way to get better driveability without having to deal with the smog gestapo any more than you have to would be to rebuild the 360. 360's are fairly simple engines, and while there isn't exactly commonplace knowledge for them like there is a small block chevy, there are still plenty of places to get parts and knowledge about them. While you're getting the engine done, you have time to go with a little wilder cam, little more compression, and little bigger valves. Have the heads done up to accept either 2.02 chevy valves or 2.08 big block chrysler valves. Make sure to go with hardened seats, cause the gas is only going to get worse. If you really want a 700R4, there's an adapter available from advance adapters in paso robles (www.advanceadapters.com). Unless you have massively low gears, it's probably not worth it. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:27:47 -0500 From: " wfr/gms" Subject: fsj: My Grand Wagoneer on Ebay I decided to see if I could sell my Grand Wagoneer on Ebay. You can see the auction and pictures here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=599391081 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:28:46 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: damn green vehicles! The other night I was given a friend's old trailer, and brought it home (clipped the vinyl trim on the house bringing into the backyard) and my son and I loaded the parts '88 Cherokee hulk onto it (also in the dark) and though it flipped off the trailer once, we got it mounted on the back after letting down my engine hoist. Today I hooked up, and went to pull it down the long hill to the scrapyard, and as I went around the corner at the 1/2 way point, the coupler broke and the trailer did a lovely pirouette in the middle of the intersection. It was at this time I noticed the dirt and crud falling off the trailer showing it was green underneath! I recoupled it, and double chained it to my bumper, and finished the downhill at very slow speed. The trailer came home with me (nearly took the vinyl off again, but I was watching for it this time) and it's sitting in my back yard. I didn't get a title for it (it's a VERY heavy old boat trailer) but if anyone wants it, it's FREE!!!! (I was going to make a car hauler out of it) I have a pair of -at-8' wide axles with brakes if anyone wants them for $50 the pair. ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 23:36:53 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Feb 2002 issue of Four Wheeler Just got the latest issue of Four Wheeler, look at that, the WJ is the FWOY for 2002. :) (they still haven't put a Diesel in the states in either the ML or the GC... :( I'm enjoying our '99... soon to be "hers", as my '77 Cherokee shows up Sunday. Hopefully that'll hold me until SuperDawg is done... not sure when that will be right now... :( And WHO is that guy on page 28 in picture #11 anyway? ;) Totally unnatural for three reasons: 1) he's on the wrong side of the Jeep 2) is that a MAP??? (what were you thinking??? sheesh... ;) 3) he's not holding a camera (or a reuben ;) The only battle of the bulge we're fighting richard is in our midsection... :) Nice pictures... I didn't realize Patton was buried there. Didn't he die in Heidelberg or was it Frankfurt? Interesting that he'd be buried there. One of my uncles (still alive) marched across Europe with Patton. - ------------- BTW, Beware of the latest virus coming in the form of a Christmas animation: http://update.internetweek.com/cgi-bin4/flo?y=eFS30BihTo0V30BEmu0Ax - -------------- later, john meister ----------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com '99 Grand Cherokee Ltd (WJ) - http://wagoneers.com/WJ '83 J10 stepside (SJ) - http://wagoneers.com/SuperDawg '77 Cherokee (SJ) - http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/johns-77-cherokee (son's collection: '67 J-3000, 67 Fairlane, 68 Montego) trailers: '74 datsun longbed, building '75 J10, selling '54 Chev stepside bed... http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1524 **************************