From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Dec 28 08:47:06 2001 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, December 28 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1530 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Brake light means... fsj: brake light... fsj: ah, much better... fsj: Re: the orbiter fsj: Re: A question....... Re: fsj: Brake light means... fsj: NYTimes.com Article: 2002 Jeep Liberty: A Chip Off the Old Rock Crawler fsj: HEAD for 230 CI Tornado Re: fsj: Brake light means... fsj: Jacob's going under? fsj: Re: Jacob's going under? fsj: jeep pictures FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 19:09:02 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: fsj: Brake light means... > I'm getting the Brake light on the dash when rolling up to a stop from > a high speed. Not emergency braking, but say medium hard braking, then the > light comes on briefly. Goes out as soon as I reduce pedal pressure even > slightly. > So the system is unbalanced. hmm.... would the rears needing new shoes > potentially cause enough difference in pressure to make it light off? Not > really sure if this light would come on due to a real bad set of shoes or > not... Does the light mean something more serious is likely? > Probably need new linings back there.... but I don't really want to do > this right now. It's 20-40 degrees right now.... actually when I have the > freedom to work on it, it's in the lower 30's and upper 20's for the > foreseeable.... and I don't have a garage, shed, or anything but this... > concrete carport... might as well call it a BREEZEWAY for all the good it > does as a work area... BRR! Much as I hate to admit it, the ol' hands > don't function so well in that cold anymore... kind of kink up and get real > hard to move out there after just a little while and since I have to drive > it everyday..... well, it'll have to wait for the weekend anyway.... > I know I need to pull all the wheels and probably bleed the system as a > precaution, tho there should not really be a need for a bleed. The system > hasn't been open since the last bleed. It might just need a bleed, or even simpler, just topping off the brake fluid. I don't know that shoes/linings needing replacement will cause the light to go off, I always thought that was a fluid/air problem or an e-brake on problem. > Just looking for ideas to consider for workday. I don't see any leaks > underneath,... well, not from the brake parts anyway. Guess I'll drive > on. The rears do seem still functional to some degree. They will hold the > truck still on a level surface but you can drive it away with the parking > brake on and not really notice it right away necessarily. Last FSJ to throw a master on me made quite a mess on the power booster, and had problems with pedal level. I'd expect that you'd probably get similar behavior from yours. > Outside of experiencing catastrophic failure is there anything one can > do to easily verify master cylinder function? The idea of monitoring the > front line and rear line with separate pressure gauges interests me...what > range is the pressure on those lines? I could see whether it was the front > or the back set that is running low pressure... Anyone out there think > this is nuts? What with my vacuum gauge I have sitting on the dash, (glued > to the windshield for stability) if I add a couple of brake pressure > gauges... maybe I'll get this thing looking like a Cessna inside yet... ah, > forget the brakes, can I get an artificial horizon to work in an FSJ? > Guess I'd better quit dreaming and get out > the MR253 and start reading.... HAHAAHAHAHAHA I can't think of anything to tell if a master is dying other than when it goes all the way. If the brake light is coming on, there is definately some air in the system, be it seeping in from the wheel cylinders, calipers, or master cylinder (or even a line), who knows. Usually, you'll notice a leak from the leaky seal, and that will tell you what's died. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 20:00:17 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: brake light... hey jeepnut, two things can trigger that light, the combination valve down on the driver's side frame or the master cylinder... actually, the switch is on the combination valve... I think it means that the plunger moved forward... Does the pedal sink at all??? john - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 20:02:20 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: ah, much better... ...put the michelin LTX 31x10.5 on the '77 Cherokee today. That's so much better... les schwab wild country tires are definitely not to my liking... Hopefully tomorrow I'll get the muffler and tailpipe fixed. The steering wheel got swapped out today and installed the FSJ stickers... :) Need to fix the stereo/speakers and wire in my trailer lights and we've got a commuting FSJ... :) john - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 20:29:58 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: the orbiter At 05:08 PM 12/26/01 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 00:54:20 -0800 >From: "Mike - G" >Subject: xj: Re: (OT) Interesting Vehicle For Sale... >And the link you've all been waiting for... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=599391315 $24k and reserve not met.... I ran across an article on this thing sorting out my old 4x4 mags... Off-Road April 1995. The guy had sponsors to build it, spent about $175k on it... GM provided the 6.5L TD. 11,000 man-hours, 1000 lbs of spare parts, and 775 fabricated pieces of T-304 stainless steel... 16,000 lbs... designed for unassisted round-the-world travel... pgs 34-36 .. :) john - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 21:22:38 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: A question....... At 10:52 PM 12/26/01 -0600, ROGELIO GUILLEN wrote: >Hi, john, my name's Juan Carlos and I'm from Tijuana >Mexico. >I have a 82'Wagoneer. and my question is how much is >it cost an engine(Motor). >Excuse my english..... >Thanks. ROGELIO GUILLEN Juan, A used motor could be found for as little as $300 to around $900. A rebuilt motor would run about $1,000 to $1,500 US. I think a typical replacement with a rebuilt motor with the labor included would cost $2,000 to $2,500 depending on who did the work. You might be able to have yours rebuilt, that would cost around $800 to $1,500, depending on the parts you used and who did the machine shop work. Hope this helps. john - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 23:37:01 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Brake light means... A: It may be just enough inertial force on the Ebrake pedal to set off the light (Both Black Jack and Elmo did that till I adjusted the Ebrake cables and replaced the return springs) If your brake pedal is way down, they light may come on (air in the system front or rear can do that too, or extremely low levels in the master cyl) If the master cyl loses pressure on one 1/2 (it's actually 2 cyls. One behind the other, with the rear one pushing the front one with it's pressure and a little rod that engages the front in case of failure of the rear) If you haven't run low on fluid, bleeding shouldn't be necessary (unless there is something plugged in the line and air is being sucked past the seals or through a pinhole in the line to the rear by the gastank) Tip for working when it's really cold out: Put a tarp over your vehicle and an electric heater (if it's not raining) You can do one wheel at a time and just manually adjust them if there is shoe left (they may need lube or new self adjuster cables or there may be ruts in the backing plates keeping the shoes from engaging properly) The Ebrake cables may need lube too. The pressure is extremely high during panic braking and will cost mucho buck$ (almost $2000 for the set I had used!) As for artificial horizon, they call those tilt-meters! (Available in my store too! LOL!) From: JeepNut I'm getting the Brake light on the dash when rolling up to a stop from a high speed. Not emergency braking, but say medium hard braking, then the light comes on briefly. Goes out as soon as I reduce pedal pressure even slightly. So the system is unbalanced. hmm.... would the rears needing new shoes potentially cause enough difference in pressure to make it light off? Not really sure if this light would come on due to a real bad set of shoes or not... Does the light mean something more serious is likely? Probably need new linings back there.... but I don't really want to do this right now. It's 20-40 degrees right now.... actually when I have the freedom to work on it, it's in the lower 30's and upper 20's for the foreseeable.... and I don't have a garage, shed, or anything but this... concrete carport... might as well call it a BREEZEWAY for all the good it does as a work area... BRR! Much as I hate to admit it, the ol' hands don't function so well in that cold anymore... kind of kink up and get real hard to move out there after just a little while and since I have to drive it everyday..... well, it'll have to wait for the weekend anyway.... I know I need to pull all the wheels and probably bleed the system as a precaution, tho there should not really be a need for a bleed. The system hasn't been open since the last bleed. Just looking for ideas to consider for workday. I don't see any leaks underneath,... well, not from the brake parts anyway. Guess I'll drive on. The rears do seem still functional to some degree. They will hold the truck still on a level surface but you can drive it away with the parking brake on and not really notice it right away necessarily. Outside of experiencing catastrophic failure is there anything one can do to easily verify master cylinder function? The idea of monitoring the front line and rear line with separate pressure gauges interests me...what range is the pressure on those lines? I could see whether it was the front or the back set that is running low pressure... Anyone out there think this is nuts? What with my vacuum gauge I have sitting on the dash, (glued to the windshield for stability) if I add a couple of brake pressure gauges... maybe I'll get this thing looking like a Cessna inside yet... ah, forget the brakes, can I get an artificial horizon to work in an FSJ? Guess I'd better quit dreaming and get out the MR253 and start reading.... JeepNut - - -- ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 09:26:02 -0800 (PST) From: rfischel-at-osc.state.ny.us Subject: fsj: NYTimes.com Article: 2002 Jeep Liberty: A Chip Off the Old Rock Crawler This article from NYTimes.com has been sent to you by rfischel-at-osc.state.ny.us. A good review of the Liberty. rfischel-at-osc.state.ny.us /-------------------- advertisement -----------------------\ Share the spirit with a gift from Starbucks. Our coffee brewers & espresso machines at special holiday prices. http://www.starbucks.com/shop/subcategory.asp?category_name=Sale/Clearance&ci=274&cookie_test=1 \----------------------------------------------------------/ 2002 Jeep Liberty: A Chip Off the Old Rock Crawler December 23, 2001 By SERGE SCHMEMANN It is, after all, the original, the descendant of the military vehicle that is among America's greatest contributions to vehicular history. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/23/automobiles/23AUTO.html?ex=1010473962&ei=1&en=b52efbaa534dcef4 HOW TO ADVERTISE - --------------------------------- For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters or other creative advertising opportunities with The New York Times on the Web, please contact Alyson Racer at alyson-at-nytimes.com or visit our online media kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help-at-nytimes.com. Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 09:12:02 -0800 From: "Faith Jeff" Subject: fsj: HEAD for 230 CI Tornado Hi does anyone have a good HEAD for a "230 ci Tornado" for sale? I'm running a 63 wagoneer. oil is mixing with water. head gasket was replaced and still oil/water problem. guess head is the next culprit. can a machine shop check a head for damage? Thanks, Jeff This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, contains information from Prescription Solutions which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 10:42:20 -0700 From: Gary Clark Subject: Re: fsj: Brake light means... > Outside of experiencing catastrophic failure is there anything one can >> do to easily verify master cylinder function? Kevin, You can test your master cylinder with the following test: First, get ahold of plugs for the master cylinder, one for the front brake line, and one for the rear. Check with better parts stores. (don't let them give you the plugs any plumber can give you, happened to me at napa) Next, disconnect the front and rear brake lines and plug the master cylinder. If the brake pedal is hard as a rock, it is fine. If it is spongy, interal leak in master cylinder. Then, you can replace just the front brake line, and test the pedal, do the same for the rear. This should narrow down any problems, quickly. Worked for me. Good luck, Gary 73 Wag P.S. My dad told me how he worked outside in the cold, when the work truck had to be ready the next day. The hand tools were kept inside in an oven, my grandfather would shuttle them back and forth, as my dad worked on the truck. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 11:50:44 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Jacob's going under? Someone posted to Doc's list that they called Jacob's, and were told that as of Jan 1 the company was going to be no more? ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 16:38:59 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Jacob's going under? On Thu, 27 Dec 2001, James Blair wrote: >-->Someone posted to Doc's list that they called Jacob's, and were told >-->that as of Jan 1 the company was going to be no more? bummer... they're wires were the best, their ignition modules pretty bad... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 22:12:56 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: jeep pictures put the 31x10.5's on my 77 Cherokee, took a few shots today with my wife's 99 WJ. http://wagoneers.com/77cherokee http://www.wagoneers.com/77cherokee/Dec27-2001/ still dealing with the leftovers of flood damage from the 13/17th... neighbor was over with excavator moving mud around... need to do some work on the jeeps... :( later, john - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1530 **************************