From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Jan 28 12:22:39 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, January 28 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1555 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: 82 J10 in vegas fsj: Re: [1FSJ] tires... Re: fsj: polyurethane bushings Re: fsj: polyurethane bushings fsj: pictures fsj: RE: Re: [1FSJ] tires... fsj: Re: Dirt Roads fsj: RE: 63 Willys Wagoneer progress Re: fsj: polyurethane bushings FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 20:11:27 -0800 From: William Prince Subject: fsj: Re: 82 J10 in vegas Right to your ALL! I like the old 413 motors, being from the 60s generation of MOPAR lovers. I raced them, put them in almost every other manufacturers cars (even one in a Jag XKE), and using them a a truck mainstaple. I loved the old 413 motors, it was the best motor Chrysler ever made (why do you think it was the choice for motor homes until they made an Industrial versi9on of the 440?)! While they are not the 'hot' fast motors like the 383/426/440 racers it is a VERY DEPENDABLE WORKHORSE. And as one of you said, why would FSHJ owners worry about mileage! My sentiments EXACTLY! I am also the loacl Pontiac Fiero GURU (due to the Fiero Kitcars and race cars I have built). I get Fiero owners who want more power but still great mileage....NOT! They also want superior handling but yet a cadillac ride....NOT! The same goes for trucks, not only FSLs but all trucks. The truck was designed to do WORK! not be a grocery getter; it was really intended to provide a combination power and utility not available in the average passenger car, and initially you paid more to have that and since cost was not the primary concern over functionality concerns for gas mileage was a moot point....and still is. My J10 has been a pride to me and I love it dearly, it has been the most reliable vejicle I have had over the last two years and were it not for financial reasons dictating I woulkd not think of selling it. But since I have been unemloyed for the last 2 years and have a limited income otherwise and I have a new toy I am trying tom get ready for Feb 17 Autocross (an E-Modified 85 Chevy S10 4WD w/350HP SBC in it) I have to sell the J10. I am into the truck well over what my asking price of $5500.00 but I would entertain ANY reasonable offers. It is not a PERFECT truck as it is a daily driver and NOT a trailer queen. But it looks good, runs good, and is dependable whcih I have always thought was the image of a real JEEP! So if anyone wants to make a serious offer contact me by phone at 702-243-4183 ANYTIME! William Prince Las Vegas, Nv (702)248-4183 Email: wprince-at-wprince.com LVR Solo II SUPERSITE: http://www.wprince.com LVR OSP Champion 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999 - 2nd Place BSP 2000 - 1st Place Super Production 1996 LVR Open 2 Wheel RallyCross Champion 1999 & 2001 CRS RallyCross Group 2/5 Champion 2000 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 21:05:31 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] tires... At 06:54 PM 1/27/02 -0800, Kevin Pekarek wrote: > > BFG AT's that aren't siped scare me on wet roads too... once siped > > they're fine. >And these aren't siped. Maybe that would make the jeep more tolerable >during the not-so dry weather. I got my BFG AT's in August, during our "dry" season... it starts typically two days after the 4th of July fireworks and ends sometime in late Sept or early Oct (drought years). It was mid-October, one of the first rains and I was heading UP a hill went to turn with the curve and kept going straight!!!! The locker in the rear of my XJ didn't help, but still... scared me... Got on the xj list and found out from others that siping was a good idea and the MT's were better in the rain. Got my tires siped at discount tire and immediately noticed an improvement on dry road (felt softer, grippier) (is that a word???) and during the next rain the fear factor was GREATLY reduced. Made a significant difference in wet traction, still wasn't as good as Michelin LTXs, but definitely better than not siped. >Don't get me wrong, the sidewalls aren't flimsy (like bfg radial t/a's are >(the car tire)), they're just not the super thick ones the at/ko's have. The "softness" that you mentioned reminds me of how Dunlop Radial Rovers felt. Also some Goodyear Wranglers feel that way as well. Grip well, but don't wear well and don't feel good in cornering. BFG T/A's or A/T's always felt better to me. (I had a set of the Radial T/A's on a few cars as well, worked great). I was really disgusted with both the Rovers and the Wranglers when it came to puncture resistance... both tires would pop going over brush or bottles on the road... I can't recall having a flat with my BFG's, or even with my Michelin's... slow leaks, but not flat like has happened with rovers, wranglers and now geolanders... :) >My jeep has LT tires (instead of P-sized), so it has an extra sidewall ply. LT's ride a lot rougher than P series... I had the LTX M/S in LT's on my J10, pulled 'em off for two reasons: 1) the 31`s were a bit much for the 258 and 2) the ride wasn't that good... However, they really work nice on the '77 Cherokee... guess it's a lot heavier. I put the P235's on SuperDawg in the Michelin LTX A/Ts and love 'em. >I didn't air down on that last trip (and didn't have *traction* problems), >and they seemed to do fine. Everyone else on the trip was laughing their >butts off because I drove through where we went with no lift, open diffs, >and price club tires, and did fine (until I got onto pavement and picked >up a nail). that's funny... almost as funny as how I totalled my XJ... hours of great wheeling, come out in the road, try to do a powerslide and under steer into a tree... :) Of course the Locker had a lot to do with it. I removed the locker when I rebuilt the Jeep. Won't do another one because they just don't feel right on the road... >I've heard nothing but good about LTX M/S's, and a friend of mine uses them >on his 88 GW with no problems (he tows a trailer full of dirt bikes with it). >They ain't swampers, but swampers are just plain annoying on the street. On >the other cherokee I have some industrial goodyears, which are superb on the >street, seem to handle wet and snow/ice fine, but aren't TOO great on loose >stuff. That truck doesn't see too much wheelin duty, so it doesn't bother >me too much. >K My son and I just redid his exhaust connections on his '77 Cherokee and he just drove out of the driveway, covered with snow, well below freezing... he drove right out with the LTX M/S and didn't spin a tire. I went out less than an hour before with the '99 GC with the Geolandars and Quadradrive and had some spinning... I'm still leaning toward the AT's if I can get 'em. Otherwise I'll do the M/S... Waiting to see if the computers on the WJ are going to behave properly... Having some trouble with my remote... Not sure I want to sink money in tires until I have the computer woes figured out. My WJ is a theft recovery and only has one functioning key/remote... need to swap out the computers and reprogram the works... not going to be fun or cheap... tires I have now aren't all the same, but they work... so we'll see... Oh, one other thing... driving back from Costco I could feel and HEAR the Goodyear tire on the front. It was different than the other three Yokohoma's... Of course Goodyears last about two weeks in normal use anyway so it won't be a problem for long... ;) john - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 23:09:55 -0600 From: JeepNut Subject: Re: fsj: polyurethane bushings Hi Brian, I've put a full set of Energy Suspension Graphite impregnated bushings on the front of the XJ and have hated them since shortly after they were installed. I made sure the guys who pressed them in used the supplied lube but the silly thing squeaks and grunts like .... well, like me some days... The wife absolutely despises the thing as a result but hasn't a choice about what to drive. We've been driving it like this for 2 or 3 years and you gotta believe me it really gets old listening to that pig squeak and grunt at every bump or slight bobble in the roadway. I don't like the XJ much anyway, it's just too small for me but that noise makes me avoid it even more. I have even undone all 4 control arms and the sway bar and lubed every possible contact surface and reinstalled the frontend. Still squeaks. Must be the bushing against the surface it's pressed against. Otherwise, I like the way it "feels" an awful lot with the urethane. Seems more responsive. But the noise will keep me from ever doing another one. JeepNut "Brian Tegtmeier (Mec)" wrote: > > Has anyone put a set of polyurethane bushings on their GW? I was > wondering what your experience has been? If so, any brand/type you'd > recommend? > > Thanks, > Brian > > ============================ > Brian Tegtmeier <>< > Network Admin > North Platte Public Schools > 308-535-7100 x171 > btegtmei-at-esu16.org > ============================ - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 21:22:20 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: polyurethane bushings Brian, I did poly bushings on a Jeep once... NEVER AGAIN. In fact, the shop that installed 'em won't do 'em any more either... they squeak, pass vibrations and don't hold up. Rubber isn't perfect, but it is nicer on your rig. Of course the poly vs rubber debate can be considered subjective, almost like the 6 vs 8, 2dr vs 4dr, at vs manual and so on debates that used to rage on the early FSJ list... ;) But consider the source when someone promotes polyurethane bushings... They probably LIKE rough riding vehicles, call it "road feel", they don't mind the squeaking because they're tone deaf or spent too much time on the range without ear plugs... Seriously the differences aren't that great, but you will notice more vibrations with poly and they don't always squeak... but nonetheless, you won't find them on my rigs... except maybe the shocks, I think the rancho's use poly bushings... john At 09:54 PM 1/27/02 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 19:27:26 -0600 >From: "Brian Tegtmeier (Mec)" >Subject: fsj: polyurethane bushings > >Has anyone put a set of polyurethane bushings on their GW? I was >wondering what your experience has been? If so, any brand/type you'd >recommend? > >Thanks, >Brian > >============================ >Brian Tegtmeier <>< >Network Admin - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 23:04:06 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: pictures Jan 27, 2002 - snow in Snohomish... good Jeep weather... :) (between you and me... I'm really glad it doesn't last long or happen very often... ;) http://wagoneers.com/FOTOS/Fotos-2002/Jan27-2002-SNOW/jan27-2002-snohomish-wa.jpg http://wagoneers.com/FOTOS/Fotos-2002/Jan27-2002-SNOW/ btw, the tooth has a horseshoe on it... it's Bill's... it'd be hard to explain... ;) Nimrod (our cat) did not get the robin... and the WJ only made it halfway up in the 3rd annual Snohomish Snowy Hill climb contest... street tires... :( So far only the Full Size Jeeps have been successful. john - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 08:12:40 -0800 From: "Whit" Subject: fsj: RE: Re: [1FSJ] tires... The new KO's seem a little better than the old AT's. My favorite tires have been the Pirelli Scorpion AT's. They are champs in the rain, they are quiet and have the highest speed rating out of the ATs. However, the wear pretty quick and they puncture too easy. Whit > > > > BFG AT's that aren't siped scare me on wet roads too... once siped > > they're fine. Thanx for the assessment of the Kirkland tires, sounds > > like they skipped the good sidewalls. :) The info I've been reading > > on the cross terrain indicate it's biased toward all-weather street > > and performance. The LTX A/T's aren't available in the size I > > need, at least at costco. If I can't get the Michelin LTX A/T's I > > will get the M/S, have 'em on my '77 Cherokee, they work fine in all > > but the gooiest mud... :) > > And these aren't siped. Maybe that would make the jeep more tolerable > during the not-so dry weather. > > Don't get me wrong, the sidewalls aren't flimsy (like bfg radial t/a's are > (the car tire)), they're just not the super thick ones the at/ko's have. > > My jeep has LT tires (instead of P-sized), so it has an extra > sidewall ply. > I didn't air down on that last trip (and didn't have *traction* > problems), and > they seemed to do fine. Everyone else on the trip was laughing > their butts off > because I drove through where we went with no lift, open diffs, > and price club > tires, and did fine (until I got onto pavement and picked up a nail). > > I've heard nothing but good about LTX M/S's, and a friend of mine > uses them > on his 88 GW with no problems (he tows a trailer full of dirt > bikes with it). > They ain't swampers, but swampers are just plain annoying on the > street. On > the other cherokee I have some industrial goodyears, which are > superb on the > street, seem to handle wet and snow/ice fine, but aren't TOO > great on loose > stuff. That truck doesn't see too much wheelin duty, so it doesn't bother > me too much. > > K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:00:53 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Dirt Roads this is good... :) thanx, john On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Michael Lacher wrote: John, Read this and then think about all the problems you've experienced since your road has been paved. Time to get out and tear up that new pavement ;-) Mike Lacher What's mainly wrong with society today is that too many Dirt Roads have been paved. There's not a problem in America today, crime, drugs, education, divorce, delinquency that wouldn't be remedied, if we just had more Dirt Roads, because Dirt Roads give character. People that live at the end of Dirt Roads learn early on that life is a bumpy ride.That it can jar you right down to your teeth sometimes, but it's worth it, if at the end is home...a loving spouse, happy kids and a dog. We wouldn't have near the trouble with our educational system if our kids got their exercise walking a Dirt Road with other kids, from whom they learn how to get along.There was less crime in our streets be! fore they were paved. Criminals didn't walk two dusty miles to rob or rape, if they knew they'd be welcomed by 5 barking dogs and a double barrel shotgun.And there were no drive by shootings.Our values were better when our roads were worse! People ! did not worship their cars more than their kids, and motorists were more courteous, they didn't tailgate by riding the bumper or the guy in front would choke you with dust & bust your windshield with rocks.Dirt Roads taught patience. Dirt Roads were environmentally friendly, you didn't hop in your car for a quart of milk you walked to the barn for your milk.For your mail, you walked to the mail box. What if it rained and the Dirt Road got washed out? That was the best part, then you stayed home and had some family time, roasted marshmallows and popped popcorn and pony rode on Daddy's shoulders and learned how to make prettier quilts than anybody.At the ! end of Dirt Roads, you soon learned that bad words tasted like soap. Most paved roads lead to trouble, Dirt Roads more likely lead to a fishing creek or a swimming hole.At the end of a Dirt Road, the only time we even locked our car was in August, because if we didn't some neighbor would fill it with too much zucchini. At the end of a Dirt Road, there was always extra springtime income, from when city dudes would get stuck, you'd have to hitch up a team and pull them out.Usually you got a dollar...always you got a new friend...at the end of a Dirt Road! ~by Paul Harvey~ ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:13:17 -0800 From: "Faith Jeff" Subject: fsj: RE: 63 Willys Wagoneer progress Oh wow..what a couple of weeks it's been on the 63-Willy-Wag. Late last night I tried to test fire the Chevy-350 and adjust the timing. Bummer was the battery was not strong enough to get more than 3 or 4 cranks...it had enough to turn the fly-wheel to align the TDC notch to the degree-tag. battery from the s-10 didn't help either since it's dead too. has been sitting for 2 weeks needing power steering pump and mounting bracket. i can't find a bracket anywhere, so the truck sits. good thing nobody has bought my toyota yet...(anyone want to buy a 93 MR2). it gets me around to work and stuff. I'm going to buy a battery charger today and try again tonight. anyway, that $70 motor-mounting-bar worked great, and went in without too much difficulty. For the transmission cross member I used the stock one instead of the one I pulled from a full-size blazer at the junk yard...had to drill a couple holes for the tranny-mounts. then drill and bolt in the correct place in the frame...it ended up being 2 inches rearward of stock location. the motor moved rearward about three or 4 inches from stock mounting location. the body lift made enough clearance that I could sit up under the thing and lean into the drill. then came mounting the radiator...what a pain in the butt. it went in easily enough, but then the fan would not fit. so I moved the radiator. then fan fit, but would not spin..was hitting the out-spout. just when i thought I was sure I had to get a skinnier radiator, I found a fitting location where everything clears. boy what a chore. so then I mount the psgr side fender so I can mount the battery...some dirty wiring, and a few minutes later I'm touching wires to battery trying to start it..and there it is. two weeks progress. oh yeah, I had to remove the steering box to make room for the exhaust header on the driver side. thanks for all the feedback on the project, ...and more to come, Jeff > -----Original Message----- > From: Faith Jeff [SMTP:Jeff.Faith-at-rxsol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 3:58 PM > To: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: 63 Willys Wagoneer progress > > The welder didn't show on Sunday to help do the GM motor mount stuff. I'm > probably better off for it. I wanted to move the motor mount towers near > the shock towers. Turns out that the motor towers bolt-up to existing > frame > holes for the front shock towers, so I relocated them back about four > inches..no welding required. But the motor still does not reach the > stand-offs...falls right between them. no problem I say...so I make some > cardboard mock-ups of a plate to go between them, and off to the machine > shop I go. I thought I had a genius piece of fabrication in my > hands...they just laughed. Said it would break sure as sh*t. As I tell > them more about my project, and they whip out some 2,000 page catalog and > there it was...for only 70 bucks...a motor mount kit for 350 conversions > that just bolts to the frame...and has a cross member with the stand-offs > at > the required position. I just need to attach the ends of the supplied > brackets to the frame of the Wag..maybe some drilling...that and hope it > doesn't have any clearance issues with the axle and steering. It's > supposed > to ship UPS this week, so maybe I'll have the motor mounted by next > weekend. > I seem to remember having said that before. For seventy bucks, if it > works, I'll be better off than paying a welder. I bet it will look better > too. > > Otherwise, I got the intake manifold reinstalled on the 350, and have > eye-hooks for to hang it from the chain, instead of removing a short bolt, > and putting a longer bolt through the chain like I was doing. Need to do > the carb, but the chain is in the way...have to get motor mounts done > first. > > > I'm still working on fixing the steering...I broke the rag-joint last > weekend doing a body lift. I may abandon the wag steering box...top shaft > is stripped and missing some splines, a gasket on it seems blown out, and > it > might be in the way of the driver-side exhaust header. Again, I need to > wait > for the motor to be mounted. > > Does anyone have advice on removing the brake drums? On my s-10 they'll > pull right off if I remove the wheel. The Wag's drums won't budge though. > > more to come... > > thanks, > Jeff > > > > > This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, contains > information from Prescription Solutions which may be confidential or > privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the > individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, > be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents > of this information is prohibited. > > If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify > the sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy all > electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. > > > > This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, contains > information from Prescription Solutions which may be confidential or > privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the > individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, > be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents > of this information is prohibited. > > If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify > the sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy all > electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. > This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, contains information from Prescription Solutions which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:55:52 EST From: HH4PIZZA-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: polyurethane bushings I used to hose the poly bushings on my XJ with PB blaster every couple of weeks. Now they are pretty quiet. I am using them in control arms and rear springs. Later, Dustin ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1555 **************************