From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sat Feb 9 22:22:06 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Sunday, February 10 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1564 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: Re: TF727 Rebuild Re: fsj: Dimensions fsj: Re: JP update fsj: msd ignition revisited fsj: Re: Alternator Re: fsj: msd problems on full size jeep - sorry for x-post fsj: FSJ: Edelbrock Performer help? Re: fsj: FSJ: Edelbrock Performer help? fsj: Mr. Cappa strikes again.. Re: fsj: msd problems on full size jeep - sorry for x-post fsj: FSJ for sale in Huntsville AL, $900 77 Wag fsj: thinking... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 22:36:10 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: TF727 Rebuild A: Make sure you get a trans shop to so the seals on the forward drum. Those little springs are under enough pressure to hurt you bad! The sprag is the over-running clutch (same thing, different technical name) I found the lockup 727 trans input shaft and forward drum while I was cleaning out the garage yesterday. Tonight I nearly sold my tire machine (only $150 for a Coates 1010. The last machine w/o an internal air tank. They thought it moved too slow with only 75 lbs PSI and a 5 gallon tank), but I sold the tire spreaders, Craftsman 230 amp buzz box, GP Sorenson tuneup box (with hundred$ of old car tune up stuff I'll never use again for $50). I gave them the HUGE rolling box (6' long, 4' deep, 3' wide) I got from Boeing Surplus for free (got my use out of it as a trans rebuild table) and my 100lb anvil for cheap (now I know it won't drop on my head!) and some other bits and pieces. The only good news I had tonight, I'm afraid. My mother called and my dad got an infection that antibiotics can't seem to control. I have to work thru sunday before I can go see him. So much for the camping trip I promised him this summer. From: Ken Gaines Subject: fsj: Re: TF727 Rebuild Thanks for the site. I checked it out and I hope my tranny doesn't need that kind of work. It has been some time since I last overhauled a slushbox. The last one I did was a TH400 from a Cherokee Chief. I have a manual somewhere, but I don't know where my wife and I put it when we moved. I am almost sure that it is in a box somewhere in out storage place. Anyway, the extent of this rebuild is going to be clutch disc removal/replacement, THOROUGH cleaning of each and every part that I come across, replacement of all the seals and gaskets, band adjustments where necessary, and replacement of the torque converter. The kit I bought was SUPPOSED to come with bands, but it didn't, so I am hoping that I won't get into the tranny and end up having to replace the bands. Jim suggested that I thoroughly check the sprag area for cracks. I also remember something about an over-running clutch in there. With that said, I am off the get my torque converter from the parts house. The tranny comes out tomorrow and the overhaul process starts at 7am Saturday morning. Let's all keep our fingers crossed... O)||||||(O Ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 22:40:10 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: Dimensions A: What's the length difference to MJs? (width is same as XJ) What about the longbox J10 and the J20? From: john Subject: fsj: Dimensions Jeep Dimensions rig - WB - length - Width ============================ J10 118.8 194.0 78.9 WJ 105.9 181.5 72.3 SJ 108.7 186.5 75.6 XJ 101.4 165.3 70.5 ZJ 105.9 177.2 70.9 TJ 93.4 152.8 68.2 YJ 93.4 152 66 CJ7 93.5 147.9 65.3 Mercedes Dimensions Mdl - WB - length - Width ============================ 123 110.0 186.0 70.3 126 115.6 202.6 71.6 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 23:57:57 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Re: JP update From: RMSquaredJeeps-at-aol.com Subject: JOHN CAPPA REPLIES TO ME In a message dated 2/7/2002 5:14:07 PM Pacific Standard Time, FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com writes: << Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 19:23:32 -0500 From: "Ed Tapanes" Subject: Re: Digest Number 971 Whoops. I saw a Panel Truck. I read "Panel truck". I got angry. I fumed. I thought of people I could either hire or otherwise get to poke Mr. Cappa in the eye. I thought, "Hey, Richard T. works/worked at JP, I'm sure he could slip through Cappa's bodyguards and do the appendage attack.". Then I thought about what a sweet Super Wag Richard has... Please let us know if he declines your offer Richard. If so, then I suggest we activate the IFSJA bat signal and start a letter writing campaign to JP (or Primedia). If he accepts your offer and you do end up getting the panel truck, right after he hands you the keys and title, could you still give him a little jab? Doesn't have to be in the eye. Maybe his ear with a pencil? >> To members of the FSJ List: I got a reply to my E-mail to John Cappa, almost immediately. He clearly outlined that his panel truck is a basket case, holes in the floor, non-original powertrain and numerous other non-OEM elements. It is not the panel truck in the picture on his editorial page. I hope that this clarifies the issue a bit. I have a meeting scheduled at Primedia in LA on Monday with Jon Thompson, the editor of Four Wheeler. I think he's on the same floor as John Cappa and will knock on his door to say hello. Best wished, Richard Truesdell Yorba Linda, CA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 07:50:34 -0700 From: "Daniel Beiers" Subject: fsj: msd ignition revisited so, thanks for all the replies on my msd problem. the consensus was to install a diode in the 12+ feeding the msd. or to use a balist resistor in the same location. msd recommended the dual balist resistor. unfortunately neither worked. truck just keeps running. so i have a one day old msd 6a for sale :) really i don't know what to do. msd won't do anything about the problem. I read something about installing the diode in the alternator output wire, but i don't see how the location will matter. Do you any of you guys have any other ideas? thanks again for all your help, this list is great. dan _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 07:17:13 -0800 (PST) From: Alexander Wall Subject: fsj: Re: Alternator Thanks! You have provided VERY useful info, over and over!! Keep it up! Alex - --- Jim B wrote: > Those are the newer ones they are talking about (for computer controlled cars) You need a > 7294-12 Autolite from Schuck's or similar. $120 with lifetime guarantee > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Alexander Wall > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 3:12 PM > To: Jim B > Subject: Alternator > > Hi Jim, > > Were you the person who told me I could use a GM alternator, if I want to get a high-output > alternator in my 84 Waggy? I found one on Ebay that looks a lot like mine... > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=601693665 > > Is this wrong? > > Thanks! > > Alex > > ===== > Alexander Wall > Spokane, WA > ================================================================================= > "Where there's a will, there's a way." - Eliza Cook > "Where there's a way, there's a construction crew disrupting traffic!" - Alex Wall > ================================================================================= > Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! > http://greetings.yahoo.com > ===== Alexander Wall Spokane, WA ================================================================================= "Where there's a will, there's a way." - Eliza Cook "Where there's a way, there's a construction crew disrupting traffic!" - Alex Wall ================================================================================= Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 12:07:15 EST From: HH4PIZZA-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: msd problems on full size jeep - sorry for x-post I am running an MSD box on my GW. I had the same problem. I called and they said to put A diode in. I believe it was the red wire on the alternator. I picked up the diode from radioshack. HTH, Dustin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 09:26:51 -0800 From: Jim Pearson Subject: fsj: FSJ: Edelbrock Performer help? Good morning, Happy Friday! Well, I'm about to embark on one of the more often recommended upgrades -- Edelbrock Performer intake and 1406 carb on my 360. Anybody here know of a site, or have pics they could email, or have any notes, on how to do the install correctly and smoothly? I guess I'm most concerned about routing the vacuum (only power is to the elec choke, so no worries there).... Thoughts? Suggestions? Lessons learned? Maybe I'm just blind, but I was surprised when I started searchin' the net - for an upgrade so frequently recommended, I didn't come across any "how to" pages... Thanks a bunch! Hope y'all have a good weekend... (Oh, and Ken Gaines -- good luck with tranny build - I'm sure I'm not the only one waiting eagerly for follow-up posts... : ) ) Jim jpearson-at-lightwavemicro.com Jeep Cherokee Laredo - 360/727... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 13:21:09 CST From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: FSJ: Edelbrock Performer help? Jim Pearson said: {- Well, I'm about to embark on one of the more often recommended upgrades -- {- Edelbrock Performer intake and 1406 carb on my 360. {- {- Anybody here know of a site, or have pics they could email, or have any {- notes, on how to do the install correctly and smoothly? I guess I'm most {- concerned about routing the vacuum (only power is to the elec choke, so no {- worries there).... I have some pics of when I switched the stock stuff to an Edelbrock Performer manifold and Holley Commander 950 throttle-body. (I would NOT recommend the Holley -- it died hard, and I have since switched to the system at www.customefis.com using used GM throttle-body parts.) You can browse around as much as you like in http://129.186.79.84/tbi/ , but the main directories that might be of use to you are "removing old" and "manifold splash guard". The first are pics of how it was stock, which might help you later if you can't remember exactly where something went on the stock system. The second is because, at least in my case, the stock oil splash guard didn't fit the contours of the Edelbrock Performer manifold perfectly, so we Dremmeled off a piece. The other four directories are less helpful to you since it's a TBI system, but you may still get an idea or two if you're stuck. {- Thoughts? Suggestions? Lessons learned? We labeled all hoses and wires and things with duct tape and an indelible marker before we started and made a list on paper for what each label (we just used letters) matched up to. Was a big help later, and often easier to follow than pictures or worded directions on a web page. Also, we had problems with the manifold part. The gasket is a thin sheet of metal, and we apparently didn't get it on absolutely perfect, because it leaked coolant when we were done. I finally had to just have a shop re-do it for me (it was that or try it again ourselves, and I had no desire at that point to take everything back off and on again). So I'm not sure what the solution there is except to be really careful when positioning it. I'm told if we even made an accidental initial small crease on the gasket in the wrong position (i.e., put on the gasket and manifold and then slid it a couple millimeters), it could put in a permanent crease that could result in the slow/medium leaks we encountered. Frankly, IMO, if the manifold's really on solid and you're starting to put the carb on, it's smooth sailing from there. (However, from the pics, you'll also see we ended up putting the manifold and throttle body together before installing -- that may have also made it more difficult to position perfectly. We mainly did it to work out all the hoses where we could see and get to them easily; you might do a "dry run" on the floor first to figure things out, but not bolt everything together, and then take it appart and put the manifold in, then the new carb... Just an idea.) Oh, yeah, and we ended up taking off the valve covers because of the annoying millimeter or two of overlap over the intake manifold. Of course, be sure not to drop anything in, and make sure all the surfaces are clean (we used the plastic-handled scraping razor blades to get the junk off) to prepare for the new manifold gasket (metal sheet) and valve cover gaskets (rectangular rubber rings). {- Maybe I'm just blind, but I was {- surprised when I started searchin' the net - for an upgrade so frequently {- recommended, I didn't come across any "how to" pages... I was planning to do one with these pics, which is why they're there, for a TBI system, but didn't get around to it, muchly because I ended up using a different TBI system. I still would like to eventually put together a step-by-step set of pages with pics, but will have to be creative since it's a different system now. Sorry I don't have more, but hopefully the pics will help a bit. (If nothing else, I think the pics of the stock system are some of the best I've seen for reference -- they're large/high resolution and sharp, and the engine really was the most complete factory system I'd seen on a FSJ.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Macintosh may only have 10% of the market, but it is clearly the top 10%. -- Douglas Adams - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 14:24:48 -0600 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: fsj: Mr. Cappa strikes again.. Is it not the very same Cappa We had have had problems with some time ago? Some body should really give give a free frontal lobotomy, I am sure it would be an improvement! Lets all write to JP Mag at once!.. Let's unite! It's will really generate some heat on some issues.. we most definitely have the members to do it, and enough for them to take a stand up and notice approach ..;) R.J. J-10 80 Honcho Huntsville AL. rom: "Jim B" Subject: FWD: RE: JP Mag is really ticking me off... A: I'm passing this on to ALL the Jeeplists I'm on and the AMC-list. Wonder how much of a backlash that may cause? From: RMSquaredJeeps-at-aol.com Subject: RE: JP Mag is really ticking me off... In a message dated 2/7/2002 2:24:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com writes: << Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 02:23:22 -0500 From: "Andrew D." Subject: Re: RE: JP Mag is really ticking me off... >>>> >> Andrew, You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but with all the used mainstream Wagoneers out there, that are essentially mechanically identical to a Super Wagoneer, to "hack" one up, as Mr. Cappa so eloquently put it, is just not sensible and I'm pretty sure that I'm not alone in this opinion. It took me over a year of searching, with the help of a half dozen list member, before I found my Super Wagoneer. It's been featured in both JP and on TruckTrend.com, and although it's a damn pretty truck, as several members of this list will attest, it gets a healthy amount of off-road activity, including several runs to the remote Nevada outback to recover the remains of an A-12/SR-71 Blackbird that crashed 70 miles east of Groom Lake/Area 51 more than 30 years ago. IMHO, a Jeep doesn't have to be sitting on 35 to go where it needs to go. I suspect that except for limitations of width, my stock Super Wagoneer will go about 95% of the places a modified FSJ can go, and do it with the comfort of fully functional factory air conditioning to boot. At Camp Jeep last summer, in a stock Liberty, on street tires, I made it through obstacles that stopped modified CJs, TJs, and XJs, much to their chagrin. Being able to surmount obstacles is at least as much a function of the driver and the line he or she takes, as it is the inches of lift. Many hard core off-roaders seem to lose sight of this, and that's often how they end up on their roofs or roll bars while stockers plug on through, unscathed. Back to Mr. Cappa. I just read his most current editorial and it seems that he's not going to "hack" up a rare Super Wagoneer, but an even rarer panel delivery model, one of less than 500 built that year. Again it's his to do with, as he sees fit, but I just called his office (as a past contributor to JP, I have his direct number), left a message and asked to speak with him before he goes further. If he hasn't already modified his panel delivery, I've offered to find him a comparable or better standard Wagoneer and will swap him even up. I'd love to add a nice panel delivery to my "fleet" of unique and historically significant Jeep and AMC vehicles. I'll be interested in hearing your response. Sincerely, Richard Truesdell Yorba Linda, CA 1969 Jeep Super Wagoneer 1978 AMC Concord D/L 2-door (an estate car with less than 60,000 miles) 1988 AMC Eagle Limited Wagon 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee [This message contained attachments ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 18:42:06 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: msd problems on full size jeep - sorry for x-post A: It matters which way you put the diode by the way! ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 23:19:26 -0600 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: fsj: FSJ for sale in Huntsville AL, $900 77 Wag Here is the ad found in the Thrifty nickel ads, 2/7/02 1977 Jeep Wagoneer Automatic, 360,V8,Quad-trac 4 wheel drive, 10K miles, good interior not running, $900 or best offer. (256) 461-0265 thought to pass it on in case anyone interested.. R.J. J-10 Honcho huntsville Al. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 22:24:19 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: thinking... Thinking about selling the '99 WJ GC Limited (again) and getting a '96 or newer XJ. The XJ is probably the best all around Jeep every built. The WJ is a great rig and wonderful in it's own right. Love Quadradrive, but the nimbleness of the XJ is quite appealing. Getting rid of a car payment is also appealing. Four things are making us consider the XJ again. 1) parking the XJ is easier 2) visibility is better in the XJ (not as good as an SJ though) 3) the gas mileage is slightly better with an XJ 4) we'd reduce, or eliminate the car payment by getting an XJ Need to figure out what my '99 WJ is worth with close to 45,000 miles on it... any thoughts? The other reason we're thinking about it again is we're car shopping with our daughter... her '88 Buick finally passed into the parts world this morning... I was at the helm... it died near the top of the Clearview hill... engine totally seized. With a little help from my son and his '77 Cherokee we rolled it all the way back down the hill (same way we got the '67 J3000 home when it ran out of gas) and through the muddy field to it's current resting position... Parts from a Buick Regal anyone? ;) I had fun... I piloted it through a seriously muddy field at around 25 mph... :) FWIW, any parts from the underside may not be in very good shape... now... ;) later, john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1564 **************************