From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Mar 4 08:51:01 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, March 4 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1580 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: RE: [FSJ_SE] Grand Wag Fuel Tank fsj: Tailgate Part fsj: Re: Grand Wag Fuel Tank fsj: the J10 project(s) fsj: Spring question fsj: re: spring question RE: fsj: RE: [FSJ_SE] Grand Wag Fuel Tank FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 00:22:10 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: RE: [FSJ_SE] Grand Wag Fuel Tank A: Tomorrow I will be (hopefully) putting an '89 XJ tank in the spare tire hole under my '84 J10. I put it between the rails of the '84 GW frame I parted and it looked to fit fine there too. Pics will be taken and writeups will happen! (I have to figure how to upload my pics from my digital camera to the computer. I think the USB cord is missing for it and they look pretty lame with Webtv's 72 DPI resolution) I'll post the pics to the website of 1fsj on yahoogroups (since I have easy access to it) and notify those who are interested. My plate is just a little full the next little while anyways! Gotta get ready for Ouray! From: George Milam Subject: fsj: RE: [FSJ_SE] Grand Wag Fuel Tank My '89 with a rebuilt 360 and a 2bbl carb drinks like a fish. Is it posssible to strap in a second tank where the spare goes and connect it with the single filler? How would the fuel sending work? Thanks, George Milam '89 Grand Wagoneer "Moose" Vermont ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 09:39:31 -0800 From: "Whit Hickman" Subject: fsj: Tailgate Part I broke the tab on my truckbed where the tailgate latches on. It's just a little piece of metal about 1" x 2" with a square hole cut into it. Anyone have suggestions on where I can get this piece. I haven't bothered checking the dealer. I assume they won't have it because it is a weld on piece to the truck bed. I guess I could go to the junk yard and grind it off an old truck. I could fabricate it as well but it looks like a lot of effort for a simple piece. Thanks, Whit ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:32:24 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: Grand Wag Fuel Tank >Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:40:35 CST >From: Dan Black > >George Milam said: >{- My '89 with a rebuilt 360 and a 2bbl carb drinks like a fish. Is it >{- posssible to strap in a second tank where the spare goes and connect it with >{- the single filler? How would the fuel sending work? >It's definitely possible to put in a second tank there; people have put >in 20, 30, and even 40gal tanks there. I know they've done them with >dual fillers, but I believe some also worked out ways to do it with one. >I think someone even managed to get it to have two separate fillers >through one nozzle at the end -- but I can't picture how that would work >reliably right off. I've got a 28 gal aux tank where the spare used to be and have done extensive work trying to get it right -- something the PO never did. These tanks are not uncommon on junked rigs here in the Northwest. I've seen a couple different designs and they were probably all made by local RV dealers or small shops of one kind or another. None that I've seen have been significantly larger than mine -- for reasons I cite below. Aux tanks have also been available from AE Miller and Aero Tanks (don't seem to have that web address anymore). The Aero Tanks kit was used in one of the write-ups in the tech section of the IFSJA web site. You may have to call AE Miller since I don't see any mention of gas tanks on their web site anymore. Any competent welder could probably make a tank cheaper than you could buy one from Miller or Aero. A simple rectangular box that used all the space between the frame rails and didn't hang down too far in the back would hold 30 gallons or more. Filler and vent nipples would want to be welded to the the left rear corner. Mine is narrower and deeper than it needs to be and reduces the departure angle considerably. Fortunately, that's not an issue for me. I'll tell the history of mine and hopefully that will answer all your questions. If not, let me know. My Wag had the aux tank when I bought it. It was secured with the spare tire cradle and wasn't very secure. I fixed that by getting brackets welded to it that bolt to the frame. The spare tire was mounted inside to a functional but suspicious looking home-built bracket that attempted to duplicate the stock arrangement on those rigs that had it. I scrapped that bracket and installed one from a '70s Cherokee that I found in a junkyard. The aux tank was plumbed in with a PVC Tee and a bunch of elbows below the stock filler. PVC is fine for fuel applications but the 21 gallon stock tank was draining into the aux tank on hills and to fill one tank I had to fill both. I replumbed the fillers with a combination of copper, rubber fuel line, and a custom steel Y right behind the gas cap. Over the last 5 years I've redesigned the filler plumbing (except the Y) about 3 times and gotten all the improvements I'm ever going to. The Y was a ton of work and not well designed, so it fills a little slow, but at least I can choose which tank the fuel goes in. If I had it to do over again I'd use an '80s style filler/cap and use the vent line to fill the aux tank -- or maybe just do a better job with the custom steel idea. The senders on both tanks register on the stock gauge. When I flip the switch to the solenoid valve to change tanks, it also switches the sender input. I don't know if it still is, but this used to be a commonly available one-size-fits-all kit from JC Whitney. It's basically just a switch with a bunch of terminals and a '70's Ford pickup 3-port solenoid valve. If you have fuel return and vent lines then you'll need a later model Ford 5-port (or maybe it's a 7-port?) valve. Expect to pay $50 to $70 for the valve. >From time to time there has been alot of noise about electric fuel pumps. Mine had two helping the mechanical pump. I figured they were there to help with vapor lock and because the aux tank was so far from the engine. It turns out that the diaphram in the solenoid valve will rupture if there is an electric pump between it and the tank. It also turns out that the mechanical pump will draw from the rear tank with no problem. After tinkering with different combinations of mechanical pumps and electric pumps in various locations in order to keep vapor lock at bay, I settled on a Carter high-volume mechanical pump (mitaswell) and ditched the electric pumps. The only time I had a vapor lock problem was climbing a long hill in 110+ degree heat and switching on the electric pump didn't help. Shortly after I got my Wag I replaced all 4 spring packs. I had to have them made, so I got the rears beefed up a little to help carry the load of a full aux tank. When the rear tank is empty the rig rides worse than my 4x4 F-250. The point is that the Wag has pretty stout rear springs. Normally I only use the aux tank and the ride is pretty good when it's full. The rig also handles better with the weight of the fuel balanced between the frame rails. However, with both tanks full (49 gallons) and the rig loaded with kids, dog, and camping equipment -- the suspension has met it's match. The rig handles pretty squirrely until I get one tank sucked down to about half. Also, fuel mileage drops off considerably when you add the weight of the second full tank. As a result, cruising range doesn't improve much. Unless you plan on driving long distances with a very light load, the aux tank concept isn't really worth the effort. I have often thought about yanking the original tank and just using the aux tank alone. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:18:22 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: the J10 project(s) Been thinking about the '75 J10... The plan is to make the bed into a trailer... that's still on... but the thought of getting rid of the cab has bugged me... I think I'm going to put it on a Wagoneer frame and find a V8 Diesel for it... then make a small flat bed and dual lock it and make it a wheeling machine... If I do it right it might be an economical daily commuter (will replace the ford ranger diesel...) Of course if my '83 J10 with the 4.0L turns out to be economical to commute in then I'll get rid of the little ranger diesel and just keep the 2 J10's... I'm thinking a 6.5L Turbo Diesel setup would be nice... Would use it to haul the original trailer/bed and be able to haul some serious stuff... :) Of course if I keep the J10 intact and go with a Diesel... but the only problem there is it's a long bed and they're hard to deal with on Pacific Northwest trails... I'm getting close to 30mpg with this little ford ranger Diesel... it's gutless as all get out... it's hard to speed in it... :) but I am loving the fuel economy... Now, if I could only build an FSJ to get that kind of mileage... rofl... well, I'm dreaming when I should be finishing the taxes... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 00:04:46 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Spring question Spring question I measured my new 3" lift springs and they are 54" eye to eye. My old J10 springs are 57", but they are flat. Does this sound right, or are '84 GW springs a couple inches shorter? I will probably rebox my spring mounts to get the rear lift I want, so moving the rear one forward is an option. I just want to make sure. ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ Black Jack's before pic: http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/FESTS/Snohomish-April2-2000/PIC00004.JPG************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 00:07:40 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: re: spring question Another thing to mention is my '84 J10 has Rough Country shocks, so it may be already lifted (the truck is loaded and the springs are flat) I will be pulling out the springs pretty soon if anyone is interested in them that's close to Seattle. ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ Black Jack's before pic: http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/FESTS/Snohomish-April2-2000/PIC00004.JPG************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:50:30 -0500 From: George Milam Subject: RE: fsj: RE: [FSJ_SE] Grand Wag Fuel Tank Thanks Dan, Jim and others who gave insight. Looks like I have a few options for reserve tank installation. Will the weight of a full 40gal reserve really make a huge mileage difference over that of say a 20gal or 30gal? Thanks! George Milam '89 Grand Wagoneer "Moose" Vermont - -----Original Message----- From: Jim B [mailto:carnuck-at-hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 3:22 AM To: local Jeep list Subject: Re: fsj: RE: [FSJ_SE] Grand Wag Fuel Tank A: Tomorrow I will be (hopefully) putting an '89 XJ tank in the spare tire hole under my '84 J10. I put it between the rails of the '84 GW frame I parted and it looked to fit fine there too. Pics will be taken and writeups will happen! (I have to figure how to upload my pics from my digital camera to the computer. I think the USB cord is missing for it and they look pretty lame with Webtv's 72 DPI resolution) I'll post the pics to the website of 1fsj on yahoogroups (since I have easy access to it) and notify those who are interested. My plate is just a little full the next little while anyways! Gotta get ready for Ouray! From: George Milam Subject: fsj: RE: [FSJ_SE] Grand Wag Fuel Tank My '89 with a rebuilt 360 and a 2bbl carb drinks like a fish. Is it posssible to strap in a second tank where the spare goes and connect it with the single filler? How would the fuel sending work? Thanks, George Milam '89 Grand Wagoneer "Moose" Vermont ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1580 **************************