From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Mar 26 13:05:42 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, March 26 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1602 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: SJ or FSJ not enough space and too old?! fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1601 fsj: tstats fsj: PT QT wanted in GA Re: fsj: PT QT wanted in GA fsj: batteries fsj: Re: Need Rear Bumper for J10 fsj: RE: Need Rear Bumper for J10 Re: fsj: tstats fsj: Rear deflector fsj: Battery research... fsj: Update.. on ..Will the REAL proper thermostat for 80 J-10, PLEASE stand up! fsj: mo' battery fsj: RE: TH400 Info FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:23:03 -0600 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Re: fsj: SJ or FSJ not enough space and too old?! oh.. all right if I have to... sorry.. some people just get me worked up.. R.J. Greg Loxtercamp wrote: > RJ, control yourself...don't go spouting off like you have the definitive > answer. Everyone has opinions and preferences. Don't go flaming someone just > for saying something. I, for one, agree with Jeff on many points. I had my > '79 wag and it was great for doing what it needed to do...get me around in the > MN winters and haul stuff (people, dirt, kayaks). But, you put four guys in it > and there's not much room left. Yes, it's a full size, but they are ~8" > narrower than other full sizes and much smaller than the Excursion, Surburban > and even the Yukon. The drivetrain is similar to that found on other vehicles > of it's class. > > When I got rid of the '79, I looked around for a newer model. The core of the > interior was updated in the late '70s for the Limited editions and really > didn't change much till the end (minus the dash, upper console and other minor > things). The outdated styling of the carpet and the seats prevented me from > purchasing a Jeep. I went with the Volvo AWD wagon instead...after all, it was > going to be my wifes car...and it's really nice. Of course, these are my > opions and my preferences... I also really love the exterior of the wag/cher > and am still a member of the mailing list because I like the correspondense...I > still have the Jeep sickness and speak proudly of them. Who knows, maybe > someday I may get another one...or maybe I'll get a Bronco, LandCruiser or a > Rover. > > So, ease up on the flaming and keep this list family oriented. BTW, this is > not the first time I asked this of you. > > Greg > fsj-less in Mpls. > > --- "R.J. Baynum" wrote: > > Son, You just don't understand do you? > > The Grand wagoneer, or SJ, or we call FSJ, is by far, the roomiest, safest, > > reliable, toughest Jeep from the old School. the original SUV that today's > > SUV's > > are trying to copy and pawn off as it's reputation, which people fall for > > because > > of the size, then get wowed, by the luxury plastic fancy doo dads you don't > > really > > need.. > > They are cheap to rebuild, easy to work on, cost 75% less then a new SUV, and > > very > > classy in style. You see allot of the Grand wagoneers in movies today. they > > are > > popular not only for "Enthusiasts" ( And do NOT say it in a sneer, as if it's > > a > > dirty word!) We prefer as a Collector's > > Classic, the FSJ.. > > They are not owned by soccer moms.. only mini vans.. get it straight! > > People who love the great Outdoors and Drive off road -or trails own them, > > and for > > good reason.. Which came first in a family Jeep, on the Beach, When Surf > > fishing, > > Or down Very Muddy Forest service roads in the middle of nowhere , hundreds > > of > > miles from a single human being.. And gets you back with out a problem in > > anyway.. > > That is a FSJ! > > A FSJ can Carry more, and haul more at once, then any other SUV or other Jeep > > on > > the Muddy trail.. > > So next time , think before, and do yourself a really big favor ,..don't let > > your > > big mouth overload your tweety bird ass! > > Or you will get really plucked! > > > > R.J. > > 1FSJ-at-yahoogroups.com > > FSJ_SE-at-yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:12:22 -0600 > > From: "Garrison St.Clair" > > Subject: Re: Measurements... > > > > Jeff, > > > > An SJ is just too old and space-inefficient. > > > > My preference will be to buy a new vehicle. If I decide on something that I > > can't afford new, say a Gelandewagen, then I'll look at used but certainly > > not anything owned by an enthusiast. the correct used vehicle is always > > something bought by its original owner for the wrong reasons. For example a > > G-wagen owned by a typical soccer mom for three years might have 30-35000 > > easy miles and be priced about 40% of a new model. > > > > The last thing I want to happen is a breakdown in CENTAM due to something > > that was hard to spot or completely unforeseen. So old vehicles, enthusiast > > owned vehicles are not an option. > > > > Gunslinger > > > > Gunslinger's Fifth Law: "The ostrich that buries its head in the sand, gets > > its tail feathers plucked." > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jeff Hammes" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, 24 March, 2002 17:20 > > Subject: Re: [jeep] Measurements... > > > > > > > How 'bout a SJ? > > > http://www.grandwagoneers.com sells some SJ's in very good condition. (No > > > affiliation) > > > > > > Jeff Hammes > > > '79 Wagoneer (BW1339 in pieces) > > > Utica, NY > > > > > > > ...over the past year or so I've been contemplating replacing my YJ. > > > > besides being my daily driver around town, the Jeep is used for long > > > > distance trips in sometimes inhospitable places. So the goal is more > > > > interior space and the ability to lock the vehicle (no more softop). > > > > Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards. > http://movies.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:38:44 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1601 On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, fsj-digest wrote: >-->A FSJ can Carry more, and haul more at once, then any other SUV or other Jeep on >-->the Muddy trail.. >-->So next time , think before, and do yourself a really big favor ,..don't let your >-->big mouth overload your tweety bird ss! >-->Or you will get really plucked! >-->R.J. >-->1FSJ-at-yahoogroups.com >-->FSJ_SE-at-yahoogroups.com >--> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:12:22 -0600 >--> From: "Garrison St.Clair" >-->Subject: Re: Measurements... >-->Jeff, >-->An SJ is just too old and space-inefficient. >--> >-->My preference will be to buy a new vehicle. If I decide on something that I I want to second a motion put foward by Greg about keeping this list flame free and family oriented. I'm in digest mode and don't have time to read all the posts all the time. If you guys see something happening in real time that needs attention I'm almost always on line... :) I know Brian is busy too otherwise he would have jumped in as well. So let's chill a bit RJ. :) Be nice, take a deep breath and relax. We all want to meet in Ouray as friends. And if I were you I'd take note of the guy's email address... I thought I saw "gunslinger" in there... :) rofl... I can see the papers now... shootout at Ouray... FWIW, I ended up with a 1999 Grand Cherokee for my family car. There is no way I'd subject my wife to the fussiness of an FSJ. I am building a nice '83 J10 for myself, but it'll be updated with a '96 engine/dash and passenger car seats. My wife is already moaning about having to drive all the way to Colorada in it instead of the WJ... The WJ is nice... those seats are sooooo comfortable... :) I love the Full Size Jeeps and hope to build a trail rig as well, but we have to remember that they aren't for everyone. They do require a lot of extra effort and attention. The downsized Cherokees, the XJ, now gone too, were a valiant effort by AMC to "update" the Wagoneer concept. They did pretty well, but they still weren't the same. :) The "FOUR" List Rules: 1) NO flames. 2) NO foul language. 3) keep it Family oriented. 4) keep the subject list oriented. ====================================================================================== john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ====================================================================================== ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:08:27 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: tstats RJ, You might want to get an aftermarket temp gauge to monitor the temp better. If it runs too cold you risk sludge buildup if you can't get the moisture out of the engine, and I know y'all got humidity down there to deal with. :) If you run too hot you'll ping more. 160 might be ok, hard to day... a 360 tends to run pretty warm. 180 is about right as far as I can tell. 190 would be too warm by my guess. How's your oil look? are you getting sludge in your oil breather/cap at all? john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:45:27 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: PT QT wanted in GA curtis.trickler-at-rockdalecounty.org I'm gonna guess that the part time QT is gonna be grossly expensive to ship to GA(30012) but can you check it for me. Ive been hoping to find a used one local but so far no dice. thanx. Curtis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:27:24 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Loxtercamp Subject: Re: fsj: PT QT wanted in GA I have a mile marker BW QT PT kit that was installed in my '79 wagoneer. I removed it before I got rid of it. This kit is complete...right down to all the seals, silicon, hubs and sticker for your switch. It has less than 10K miles and very few of those miles were with the 4x4 unit engaged. I'm asking $225. I has pics on my site, but I think they are gone while it's being hosted by my friend. I can send some tonight if you are interested. It is a 1:1 gear ratio made for the FSJ BW TC...as seen on the milemarker website. Greg Mpls,MN - --- Jim B wrote: > curtis.trickler-at-rockdalecounty.org > > > > I'm gonna guess that the part time QT is gonna be grossly expensive to ship > to GA(30012) but can you check it for me. Ive been hoping to find a used one > local but so far no dice. thanx. > Curtis Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards. http://movies.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:38:48 -0700 From: Tesar Landon-r16884 Subject: fsj: batteries Hi, need to replace my battery, as it seems to have sprung a leak out of an inboard cell. This has really made a mess as the acid has covered a good portion of the fender and leaked down onto and run along the passenger frame rail. Anyway, what size is right for FSJ? It looks like a 24 series will fit, but mine is a smaller 71? series. Anyone put in a 24 series in late model GW/Truck? - - Landon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:04:45 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Need Rear Bumper for J10 Daniel! I see you finally got your J10 Stepside! What year is it? Which engine did you get? What happened to the brushguard? :) As far as the rear bumper I ended up with an FEY, most likely for a Toyota. It's almost the correct width, within an inch or so. The brackets were about 2" off, so I used spacers and longer bolts. Superdawg is getting his '96 4.0L HO engine/AisinWarner trans and NP219 along with a new paint job and frame off cleanup. He should be back on the road in May or so. ttyl, john meister snohomish, washington http://wagoneers.com/SuperDawg On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 webmaster-at-ifsja.org wrote: Check out the stepside in Belgium! I thought you might be interested in reading this web page: http://www.ifsja.org/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=000890 ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:40:07 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: Need Rear Bumper for J10 On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Daniel van Doveren wrote: >-->hey john, >--> >-->nice talking to you, >--> >-->i finally got my j10 as you can see. it's a 82' version with 360 v8 and >-->automatic trans. currently under restoration!!! I know you wanted that V8. :) If I were going to do a V8 I'd get the driveline out of a '99 and up WJ, that 4.7L V8 is nice. I have a '99 Grand Cherokee Limited, getting decent mileage in town, 19.6mpg on the road! >-->how's life. haven't heard from you for a while!!! is the rear bumper the >-->same as for a cj8??? I don't think so, but I'm not sure. http://www.wagoneers.com/SuperDawg/DawgYear2000/RearBumper/ not sure if that's the right set of pictures or not. :) >-->4.0L... nice.. i got that in my yj and it's a great engine. i kind of >-->figured out that i wanted to have a v8! do you know any other stepside >-->owners??? only a handful. john >--> >-->best regs, >--> >-->daniel >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] >-->Sent: mardi 26 mars 2002 9:05 >-->To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com >-->Cc: full size jeep list; daniel-at-mediacooperation.com >-->Subject: Re: Need Rear Bumper for J10 >--> >--> >--> >--> >-->Daniel! I see you finally got your J10 Stepside! >-->What year is it? Which engine did you get? What happened >-->to the brushguard? :) >--> >-->As far as the rear bumper I ended up with an FEY, most likely >-->for a Toyota. It's almost the correct width, within an inch >-->or so. The brackets were about 2" off, so I used spacers >-->and longer bolts. >--> >-->Superdawg is getting his '96 4.0L HO engine/AisinWarner trans >-->and NP219 along with a new paint job and frame off cleanup. >-->He should be back on the road in May or so. >--> >-->ttyl, >-->john meister >-->snohomish, washington >-->http://wagoneers.com/SuperDawg >--> >--> >-->On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 webmaster-at-ifsja.org wrote: >--> >-->Check out the stepside in Belgium! >-->I thought you might be interested in reading this web page: >--> >-->http://www.ifsja.org/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=00089 >-->0 >--> >--> >--> ---- >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) >--> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >--> ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:00:24 -0600 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Re: fsj: tstats well, if you can call it that, it is black with oil.. does that count? R.J. john wrote: > RJ, > You might want to get an aftermarket temp gauge > to monitor the temp better. > > If it runs too cold you risk sludge buildup if you > can't get the moisture out of the engine, and I know > y'all got humidity down there to deal with. :) > > If you run too hot you'll ping more. > > 160 might be ok, hard to day... a 360 tends to > run pretty warm. 180 is about right as far as I > can tell. 190 would be too warm by my guess. > > How's your oil look? are you getting sludge in > your oil breather/cap at all? > > john > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:20:20 -0500 From: George Milam Subject: fsj: Rear deflector Hello all: Does anybody out there in the world of FSJ's have for sale or know where I can pick up a rear air deflector for my '89 Wag. I know that they are somewhat hard to come by. I am willing to trade a tanish FSJ interior colored cargo cover (great cond.) or pay cash. Any ideas appreciated. Thanks, George '89 Grand Wagoneer "Moose" VT George Milam Culinary Steward The Equinox Resort Manchester Village Vermont 802/362.7817 <> [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of George Milam (E-mail).vcf] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:36:12 -0700 From: Tesar Landon-r16884 Subject: fsj: Battery research... Interesting, Sears has two designs for batteries - North=lots of lead plates for higher CCAs and South=more acid for reduced heat. Funny, the 'South'ern batteries weigh 75% of the North ones, but they all cost just the same. Also, here's a tech tip for people tightening their exhaust manifolds: Use a 1/2" driver! I got another 3/4 turn out of most of the bolts. - - Landon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:06:01 -0600 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: fsj: Update.. on ..Will the REAL proper thermostat for 80 J-10, PLEASE stand up! Talked to the Dealership, they said it did not make a difference in "Those OLD cars" really They said it called and they had in stock for $8.50, a 195 degree stat.. came with gasket, but you still needed RTV... hmmm.. that is way hot.. For the hot weather in traffic in alabama.. Now Napa says.. that it is supposed by their specs, 92 degree stat, sold for $4.99, the gasket, with a peel and stick backing, .99 . They do sell a 80 degree.. but not "recommended" Auto Zone, has four kinds of brands of 195 stats, even a long life, for 5.99, with gasket, that is all they show, no other degree listed.. Advance auto parts.. same thing.. Now talking to My friend at auto zone, His wife has a Grand Cherokee, with a 180, which he says runs great.. We can all safely say, they run better at the cooler temp. so what is up with the hot temp for specs? I am really confused.. I would really love to talk to one of the original AMC Jeep engineers, to better understand what they was thinking and why! Dazed and confused in Dixie R.J. 80 J-10 Honcho Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:40:40 EST From: Hummer502-at-aol.com Subject: Re: Will the REAL proper thermostat for 80 J-10, PLEASE stand up! I have pondered this thought for a quite some time and here are some conclusions: while none of this can I honestly back up with experience and/or books but here's my theory: as the engine expands the heat allows the cylinder walls to enlarge a little - - granted the pistons enlarge with heat as well. As the engine wears the cylinders grow just a little bit due to age, and rings flying up and down so much so there is - i'm assuming - a little bit of cylinder wear. When you install a cooler thermostat, would the cooler temperatures not allow the block to expand to it's 195 degree diameter. So in putting in a 160 you might not allow the block to expand enough and thus causing more engine wear, seeing as how you can't really cool the piston like you can the cylinder walls. I'm running a 185 degree t-stat, and initially i could feel an improvement - but honestly I can't swear that im' still feeling great throttle response. My needle runs between the black, and the green on a normal day- barely seeing the green, where as with the 195 t-stat the temperature gauge would point straight down on a normal day, and get within 1/8 of an inch from the red on a really extreme hot day sitting in traffic. But now with the 185 even in extreme conditions, and what would otherwise cause overheating the "hot" is now pointing straight down, what used to be normal. So i'm playing it' cool. - - good luck = Mike M ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:03:42 -0700 From: Tesar Landon-r16884 Subject: fsj: mo' battery Well, I went to WalMart at lunch and got their 'MAXX' thing. Interesting that the book says a '65' series will fit, even though '58' is what came from the factory. '65' series is probably twice the volume of the '58', and says CCAs are 'adjusted' to compensate for hot weather. Still has good CCAs, I forgot how many, but way better than any I've seen quoted for the '58'. I'll have to be a little creative to get it to fit and keep the cold air intake hose, but at least there are no side terminals to start leaking(problem w/ old battery) Salesman said the only reason they leak from the side terminals is because they've been overtightened. Yeah, right. - - Landon '89 GW Austin, TX ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:47:20 -0600 From: "Phillips, Scott" Subject: fsj: RE: TH400 Info Brad, This is the info I was looking for. Thanks for the info - I appreciate it. Scott The BW QT bolt pattern is a pattern all its own. Also, the input shaft is unique. To mate a D300 to a TH400, you will need aftermarket parts -- such as AA. Another problem you might have using a D300 with a TH400 is interfearance with the front driveline and the TH400 pan -- especially if you have a CV (actually, double cardon) joint on the transfercase end of the front driveline. If this is a problem, possible ways to get around it are reclocking the t-case, grinding on the TH400, eliminating the CV joint or reversing the front driveshaft, and adding lift. The D300 does not offset the front output as far as most other t-cases, such as the D20, NP2XX, and BW QT. If you find a chevy TH400 mated to a NP2XX t-case, the adaptor will work to mate the D300 to the TH400, except -- it will be clocked differently than the D300 is normally. This might be good -- it could help provide clearance to the front driveshaft. But, the output shaft used for TH400 to New Process t-cases will not work for the D300 because Chevy uses a different spline count than jeep. Chevy is something like 27. The D300 will be 23. So that doesn't solve all the problems. If you want a really bullet-proof drivetrain, you might want to consider an NP205 t-case mated to your TH400. TH400 to NP205 combinations were factory in some GM vehicles. The NP205 is one of the strongest t-cases ever made. Its a tight fit clearing the frame rails in an FSJ with an NP205, but some FSJers have done it successfully. - - -brad ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1602 **************************