From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Apr 11 11:16:32 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, April 11 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1617 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: change of plans... RE: fsj: Re: You Are Now On Warning fsj: Time to change it up Re: fsj: change of plans... fsj: 4bbl on a 258??? fsj: Re: 1979 Cherokee Chief Re: fsj: Re: 1979 Cherokee Chief Re: fsj: Re: 1979 Cherokee Chief fsj: Bad MPG? Re: fsj: Re: 1979 Cherokee Chief Re: fsj: Bad MPG? Re: fsj: Re: Jeep KJ on the RTI ramp Re: fsj: Re: You Are Now On Warning FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:05:53 -0700 From: john meister Subject: fsj: change of plans... CHANGE OF PLANS... Flying home Friday night, finishing class earlier, changed my flight. It'll be a tight schedule. Leave here around noon, get to Newark before 3pm and fly home 6:30pm... one day earlier. That means no excursion into NYC or CT. :( Also won't get to check out that Mercedes Diesel... :( would have some time at the airport, but that's not too likely to happen... On the other hand, it looks like I'm buying a Cummins Diesel when I get home... just the engine... not sure what I'm going to do with it yet. Might put it in my son's '77 Cherokee, or in my '75 J10 that I was going to convert to a trailer... Already talked to Curtis about using it in SuperDawg, but too many design issues, won't be ready in time for Ouray, Colorado (August FSJ gathering for the 40th Anniversary of the SJ). (diesel)john - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com often via PINE on Linux ** (prefer plain text emails please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:35:03 -0400 From: mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net Subject: RE: fsj: Re: You Are Now On Warning I forgot who R.J. got his truck from can anyone remind me? ;) Mike "R.J. Baynum" wrote: >I just wrote a earlier post before I read this one.. yes your right about that.. >people do not realize our relationship.. I love teasing you ..hehehe.. Your my >bestest buddy! > very true! I would never in a hundred million years EVER think about flaming >John, I respect him and think of him very highly! I consider him one of my best >friends! My FSJ Guru ! >Sorry for the Confusion from the senile old goat! Who should be in the funny farm >with the Admiral from star fleet stuff.. there is a nice rubber room with a >view.. ( but that 's just my opinion, as everyone is entitled.. right? > >R.J. > > > >john wrote: > >> I'm sure RJ was just yanking my chain. I didn't >> see it as a flame... :) >> >> RJ, you do need to watch your language... ;) >> Some folks on the list may not know all our history >> and think you're serious. >> >> I mean, "snot", that's pretty rough words ya know. :) >> >> Thanx Admiral, but I think RJ is ok. RJ, be nice on the >> list... :) >> >> ttyl, >> john >> >> On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, B. C. wrote: >> >> >-->Greetings RJ! >> >--> >> >-->You are treading on dangerous ground. Let's Review; you are subscribed >> >-->to the Wagoneers.com List. Gee Who owns Wagoneers.com?? Can you say >> >-->John. The same John who has done more for the FSJ hobby, and internet >> >-->forum development for many FSJ related lists then you will ever hope to >> >-->do. >> >--> >> >-->This is not the first time that you have flamed John on this forum; but >> >-->let me assure you that it is the next to the last. If you do it one >> >-->more time I will yank your list privileges. I do not tolerate flaming >> >-->of other members very well, especially the forum founder. Your remarks >> >-->directed at a person who directly corresponded with John in the text >> >-->below, about "better FSJ list" are out of line. This is like working at >> >-->the headquarters for Jeep, and saying Ford has always built a better 4 >> >-->wheel drive product. Bad Idea! >> >--> >> >-->Oh, by the way my memory is not real clear with old age; but I think >> >-->John is credited as one of the creators of the FSJ acronym. I notice >> >-->you like that acronym. Be aware John is lenient with allowing the use >> >-->of his copy written material in support of the hobby. If you get on his >> >-->bad side, I would not be surprised it he enforced his multiple copy >> >-->writes related to this hobby, directing the attack towards any >> >-->activities that you might be engaged in regarding the hobby. >> >--> >> >-->-- >> >-->Until The Next Dimension, >> >-->Admiral "Coluch." >> >-->Starfleet Headquarters >> >-->Ohio Post >> >-->END TRANSMISSION.................................... >> >--> >> >--> >> >--> >> >-->Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 20:16:44 -0500 >> >-->From: "R.J. Baynum" >> >-->Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Information please.. >> >--> >> >-->Make sure you sign up on the better FSJ list.. the >> >-->1FSJ-at-yahoogroups.com.. ;0) >> >--> >> >-->R.J. >> >--> >> >-->80 J-10 Honcho >> >--> >> >--> >> >-->john meister wrote: >> >--> >> >-->> On 4/8/02 11:36 AM, "Steve Richards" wrote: >> >-->> > John, >> >-->> > Love your site! I am a recent first-time buyer of an FSJ. 1976 >> >-->Wagoneer. >> >-->> > Love it!. I bought it from a young kid who didn't appreciate old >> >-->autos >> >-->> > and have recently installed a new 360 in it. I was wondering if you >> >-->had >> >-->> > any advice on the rocker/valve thing. I have the Original AMC >> >-->Service >> >-->> > manual and my heads do not have the bridges they speak of. Any >> >-->thoughts? >> >-->> > I'd sure appreciate any help you could provide. >> >-->> >> >-->> not off the top of my head, will forward this to the FSJ list, >> >-->something you >> >-->> should join... :) >> >-->> >> >--> >> >-->-- >> >-->Until The Next Dimension, >> >-->Admiral "Coluch." >> >-->Starfleet Headquarters >> >-->Ohio Post >> >-->END TRANSMISSION.................................... >> >--> >> >--> >> >> ---- >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) >> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >> ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop-at-Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:07:19 -0600 From: "Daniel Beiers" Subject: fsj: Time to change it up FSJ guru's, well the waggy is getting new seals. i am tempted to rebuild but just don't have the money right now. bad exhaust manifold leak and valve covers are bad too. figured that i would change the carb while i had all the "stuff" off the top end. i was looking at the edlebrock 4bbl intake...way too much money for me. where can i find a stock 4 bbl intake manifold for the 360? it came on some 401's right? could someone point me in the right direction as far as years and makes for a donor? or better yet, does someone have one they want to part with? also looking for a good 4bbl carb and advice on what carb is a good match(running tfi and msd). are the intakes EGR? thanks a lot Dan p.s. I'm in digest and the curiosity is killing me...please cc me :) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:55:39 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: fsj: change of plans... On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 03:05:53PM -0700, john meister wrote: > On the other hand, it looks like I'm buying a Cummins Diesel when I get > home... just the engine... not sure what I'm going to do with it yet. > Might put it in my son's '77 Cherokee, or in my '75 J10 that I was going to > convert to a trailer... Already talked to Curtis about using it in > SuperDawg, but too many design issues, won't be ready in time for Ouray, > Colorado (August FSJ gathering for the 40th Anniversary of the SJ). Interesting. I'd think that a cummins would go easier in a chryslered rig than a GM'd rig (meaning find an 80-up). You could PROBABLY get a 208 to live behind a cummins, and snag the auto trans out of a diesel pickup. The first gen tranny behind those was essentially a 727 with overdrive, and was pretty simple to boot. If I had a 79 or earlier rig, I'd be looking more along the GM lines. A 6.2 diesel could be found pretty darn easily, and is fairly reliable. It is naturally aspirated, so it can be a dog, but unless you're getting a hell of a deal on that cummins, you could easily buy a turbo kit new and still be ahead. You also have the advantage of knowing the turbo isn't coked up, etc. The power max for them that I've heard seems to be around 240hp, which is certainly plenty to move a cherokee around respectably. Should be fairly easy to drop in too, with all the chevy kits out there, I could swear the diesel shared mounts with either the big block or the small block. the 240hp figure also didn't include propane, that was just big injectors and a turbo. MIGHT need to swap head gaskets to run propane... those 6.2s had relatively high compression. I've wanted a diesel SJ myself, and pretty much came to the conclusion that I was going to hunt for one that someone converted to a 350 chevy (or whatever) and make it a diesel, then put a full-time qtrac in it. Was kinda toying with trying to stuff a cummins in an 80-up with the dodge tranny and a 208 (don't think a 229 would hold up long behind something with 450+ ft-lbs), but I hear a cummins is a bit tight of a fit in a waggie anyway. If I did run the cummins, I would try to get one of the first gen 12v models just because they're simpler engines... I have this nasty habit of wanting something I can field repair in the middle of the desert, and I don't want to have to bring a spare computer :-/ slightly OT here, but I've always thought a diesel ramcharger would rock much, and with the weight distribution of the rambos, it should do decent off road. It has a slightly shorter wheelbase, which could be good or bad, depending on your preference. Dropping one in in place of a 318 or 360 would be MUCH easier than putting one in a wag. Either way, you need to find some heavier duty springs to hold up that boat anchor :) K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:45:26 -0700 From: john meister Subject: fsj: 4bbl on a 258??? On 4/10/02 12:56 PM, "fsj-digest" wrote: > Subject: fsj: 4 bbl 258 intake wanted (not me) > > List on my website, possibly some of you have other > ideas? Thanks in advance to anyone who might reply, you can copy your reply > to Mark also at taylorrocker-at-aol.com too. I believe he is in Dallas area. > ========== > Do you have or know where I can get an 4 barrell intake for a 258? > Mark Taylor why? A Weber on the stock manifold would give you good low end grunt and plenty of CFM for WOT. If you're only interested in top end, then a Clifford or Offenhauser manifold with the Weber would work well. If you're going to really beef things up why not go with a Howell Engineering TBI rather? (I avoid all things Holley... some call me a Holley hater. ;) The Weber does have secondaries and I'm sure you'll like the way it works. They are the best carbs... I think the info is on Redline Weber's website, they have two versions... john - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com often via PINE on Linux ** (prefer plain text emails please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:57:51 -0700 From: john meister Subject: fsj: Re: 1979 Cherokee Chief 1979 Cherokee Chief for sale... Contact Larry at lpb1935-at-yahoo.com or per phone at 209-533-0279 for more details. PICTURE: http://www.wagoneers.com/tmp/79-chief-JEEP.JPG On 4/10/02 3:06 PM, "Larry Bartsch" wrote: Sorry for the delay. We had some trouble with our graphics files. It is a 1979 Cherokee Chief, 2-door 4WD, 350 HP. Extra trasfer case in bed. Needs a new home, as we've just adopted a Suburban for more trailer towing capacity. Contact Larry at lpb1935-at-yahoo.com or per phone at 209-533-0279 for more details. Thanks! (BTW, I've got a grill from my '80 Cherokee that is in better shape... it's damaged around the pass side headlight, but the center part is good... john ;) - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com often via PINE on Linux ** (prefer plain text emails please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:07:07 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 1979 Cherokee Chief On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 07:57:51PM -0700, john meister wrote: > 1979 Cherokee Chief for sale... > > Contact Larry at lpb1935-at-yahoo.com or per phone at 209-533-0279 for more > details. > > PICTURE: http://www.wagoneers.com/tmp/79-chief-JEEP.JPG > > On 4/10/02 3:06 PM, "Larry Bartsch" wrote: > Sorry for the delay. We had some trouble with our graphics files. > It is a 1979 Cherokee Chief, 2-door 4WD, 350 HP. Extra trasfer case in > bed. Needs a new home, as we've just adopted a Suburban for more trailer > towing capacity. > > Contact Larry at lpb1935-at-yahoo.com or per phone at 209-533-0279 for more > details. That's a California number, somewhere near sonora if not in sonora. For those not familiar with gold country, get in stockton or modesto (central valley) and take 120 or 108 (respectively) about an hour to an hour and a half east into the hills. K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:14:37 -0700 From: john meister Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 1979 Cherokee Chief Actually: Columbia, CA 95310 They emailed me a few weeks ago and I told them I'm post their info to my list and put their picture on my website... I'm not even sure what they're asking for it. :) Seem like nice folks though. :) john On 4/10/02 9:07 PM, "Kevin Pekarek" wrote: > On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 07:57:51PM -0700, john meister wrote: >> 1979 Cherokee Chief for sale... >> >> Contact Larry at lpb1935-at-yahoo.com or per phone at 209-533-0279 for more >> details. >> >> PICTURE: http://www.wagoneers.com/tmp/79-chief-JEEP.JPG >> >> On 4/10/02 3:06 PM, "Larry Bartsch" wrote: >> Sorry for the delay. We had some trouble with our graphics files. >> It is a 1979 Cherokee Chief, 2-door 4WD, 350 HP. Extra trasfer case in >> bed. Needs a new home, as we've just adopted a Suburban for more trailer >> towing capacity. >> >> Contact Larry at lpb1935-at-yahoo.com or per phone at 209-533-0279 for more >> details. > > That's a California number, somewhere near sonora if not in sonora. For > those not familiar with gold country, get in stockton or modesto (central > valley) and take 120 or 108 (respectively) about an hour to an hour and a > half east into the hills. > > K - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com often via PINE on Linux ** (prefer plain text emails please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:25:17 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: fsj: Bad MPG? Well , now I am getting 6 miles to a gallon, were I was getting 10, which was bad enough.. I read in the old advertisement of the J-10 when it was new, that said it was 15 mpg in the city, and 20 mpg on the highway? so what gives? I don't hear anything missing it's got a low rumble.. but man it's going through the gas! what can I do? It still has the Old air pump, which is connected and not working, plus the Cal emission stuff still on it.. I think that should come off, but worried if i do something will happen , and there will be no going back.. Is the carb out of wack? ( motor craft 2150 2 v) I am wondering were to look first.. R.J. 80 J-10 Honcho 360V8 30 over with RV cam Huntsville AL. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:34:47 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 1979 Cherokee Chief On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 09:14:37PM -0700, john meister wrote: > > That's a California number, somewhere near sonora if not in sonora. For > > those not familiar with gold country, get in stockton or modesto (central > > valley) and take 120 or 108 (respectively) about an hour to an hour and a > > half east into the hills. > > Actually: > Columbia, CA 95310 > > They emailed me a few weeks ago and I told them I'm post their > info to my list and put their picture on my website... I'm not even > sure what they're asking for it. :) Seem like nice folks though. > :) Emphasis on gold country. Columbia was one of the discovery sites. As much as I'm not really a fan of the 79 nose, that's a pretty clean little chero. *must resist, am gonna look at a 78 soon* K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:42:54 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: fsj: Bad MPG? On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 11:25:17PM -0500, R.J. Baynum wrote: > Is the carb out of wack? ( motor craft 2150 2 v) I am wondering were to look > first.. There's a little more to it than that. Remember, dead stock was a 258 with a stick, everything else was options, so that might be where the rating came from. Things like v8, automatic, QT, high numerically gears, big tires, etc can subtract. That aside, pull yer spark plugs and look to see how much to rich you're running (or stand behind the truck and see if you can breathe). Probably need to clean the carb up some, or just give the truck a tuneup if you haven't in a while. K ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 02:59:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Jeep KJ on the RTI ramp A: Shoot, my bone stock unlifted MJ with 165.000 miles and 2WD ramped over 500! From: Kevin Pekarek On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 06:34:50PM -0700, john meister wrote: I'd say that's worse then the TJ... (see RTI.html link below) Did lutin_plunder get the score? Or was he laughing too hard... :) I'm starting to wonder if my crown vic can ramp farther than that. Anyone in the bay area got a ramp I could borrow for a few? Promise to make you laugh by trying to drive a full size wagon up it ;) John, was that your 81 that was on the RTI page? What mods did you have on that rig to go that far up, or was that pretty stock? K ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 MJ http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ Black Jack's before pic: http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/FESTS/Snohomish-April2-2000/PIC00004.JPG ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:28:09 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: You Are Now On Warning everyone knows it was from John.. R.J. mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net wrote: > I forgot who R.J. got his truck from can anyone remind me? ;) > > Mike > > "R.J. Baynum" wrote: > > >I just wrote a earlier post before I read this one.. yes your right about that.. > >people do not realize our relationship.. I love teasing you ..hehehe.. Your my > >bestest buddy! > > very true! I would never in a hundred million years EVER think about flaming > >John, I respect him and think of him very highly! I consider him one of my best > >friends! My FSJ Guru ! > >Sorry for the Confusion from the senile old goat! Who should be in the funny farm > >with the Admiral from star fleet stuff.. there is a nice rubber room with a > >view.. ( but that 's just my opinion, as everyone is entitled.. right? > > > >R.J. > > > > > > > >john wrote: > > > >> I'm sure RJ was just yanking my chain. I didn't > >> see it as a flame... :) > >> > >> RJ, you do need to watch your language... ;) > >> Some folks on the list may not know all our history > >> and think you're serious. > >> > >> I mean, "snot", that's pretty rough words ya know. :) > >> > >> Thanx Admiral, but I think RJ is ok. RJ, be nice on the > >> list... :) > >> > >> ttyl, > >> john > >> > >> On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, B. C. wrote: > >> > >> >-->Greetings RJ! > >> >--> > >> >-->You are treading on dangerous ground. Let's Review; you are subscribed > >> >-->to the Wagoneers.com List. Gee Who owns Wagoneers.com?? Can you say > >> >-->John. The same John who has done more for the FSJ hobby, and internet > >> >-->forum development for many FSJ related lists then you will ever hope to > >> >-->do. > >> >--> > >> >-->This is not the first time that you have flamed John on this forum; but > >> >-->let me assure you that it is the next to the last. If you do it one > >> >-->more time I will yank your list privileges. I do not tolerate flaming > >> >-->of other members very well, especially the forum founder. Your remarks > >> >-->directed at a person who directly corresponded with John in the text > >> >-->below, about "better FSJ list" are out of line. This is like working at > >> >-->the headquarters for Jeep, and saying Ford has always built a better 4 > >> >-->wheel drive product. Bad Idea! > >> >--> > >> >-->Oh, by the way my memory is not real clear with old age; but I think > >> >-->John is credited as one of the creators of the FSJ acronym. I notice > >> >-->you like that acronym. Be aware John is lenient with allowing the use > >> >-->of his copy written material in support of the hobby. If you get on his > >> >-->bad side, I would not be surprised it he enforced his multiple copy > >> >-->writes related to this hobby, directing the attack towards any > >> >-->activities that you might be engaged in regarding the hobby. > >> >--> > >> >-->-- > >> >-->Until The Next Dimension, > >> >-->Admiral "Coluch." > >> >-->Starfleet Headquarters > >> >-->Ohio Post > >> >-->END TRANSMISSION.................................... > >> >--> > >> >--> > >> >--> > >> >-->Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 20:16:44 -0500 > >> >-->From: "R.J. Baynum" > >> >-->Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Information please.. > >> >--> > >> >-->Make sure you sign up on the better FSJ list.. the > >> >-->1FSJ-at-yahoogroups.com.. ;0) > >> >--> > >> >-->R.J. > >> >--> > >> >-->80 J-10 Honcho > >> >--> > >> >--> > >> >-->john meister wrote: > >> >--> > >> >-->> On 4/8/02 11:36 AM, "Steve Richards" wrote: > >> >-->> > John, > >> >-->> > Love your site! I am a recent first-time buyer of an FSJ. 1976 > >> >-->Wagoneer. > >> >-->> > Love it!. I bought it from a young kid who didn't appreciate old > >> >-->autos > >> >-->> > and have recently installed a new 360 in it. I was wondering if you > >> >-->had > >> >-->> > any advice on the rocker/valve thing. I have the Original AMC > >> >-->Service > >> >-->> > manual and my heads do not have the bridges they speak of. Any > >> >-->thoughts? > >> >-->> > I'd sure appreciate any help you could provide. > >> >-->> > >> >-->> not off the top of my head, will forward this to the FSJ list, > >> >-->something you > >> >-->> should join... :) > >> >-->> > >> >--> > >> >-->-- > >> >-->Until The Next Dimension, > >> >-->Admiral "Coluch." > >> >-->Starfleet Headquarters > >> >-->Ohio Post > >> >-->END TRANSMISSION.................................... > >> >--> > >> >--> > >> > >> ---- > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) > >> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > >> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > >> ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop-at-Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ > > Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1617 **************************