From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Apr 14 14:53:10 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Sunday, April 14 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1621 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [fsj: Black Bear fees] fsj: 63 Wag - springs Re: [fsj: Black Bear fees] fsj: Re: QT vs QD in real world conditions (long) Re: fsj: MSD fsj: MY FSJ IS IN AN ON-LINE CONTEST -- NEED YOUR VOTE Re: fsj: Black Bear fees FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:06:46 -0600 From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [fsj: Black Bear fees] Tesar Landon-r16884 wrote: > Umm, I don't mind paying a reasonable fee to drive on these roads. I never said you couldn't. We simply won't be doing an orgnized trail run that requires a fee. > The concept of having 150 full-size jeeps running around on gravel > roads with 'tread lightly' stickers is hypocritical. In what way? Incidentally, the fee is not on Black Bear. It is on the access to Yankee Boy Basin and Imogene Pass. Thanks, Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok KC0EKI "Unix is evil. Daemons run michael.shimniok-at-usa.net wild. Zombies roam and http://www.netcom.com/pw2/~shimniok children are killed. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:12:35 -0700 From: "Faith Jeff" Subject: fsj: 63 Wag - springs Hey my new custom springs are finally on the way! ...but I wont have them until Tuesday, so it looks like more yard work for me. have a good weekend everyone later, jeff This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, contains information from Prescription Solutions which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:20:31 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [fsj: Black Bear fees] On Fri, Apr 12, 2002 at 04:06:46PM -0600, Michael Shimniok wrote: > > The concept of having 150 full-size jeeps running around on gravel > > roads with 'tread lightly' stickers is hypocritical. > > In what way? I'm somewhat confused by this myself. Aren't you treading lightly by sticking to the gravel road and not trying to climb endangered trees or digging mud holes with locked 35's that screw up guppy breeding patterns? Or is it that a 5000 lb vehicle is not light, and therefore cannot tread as "lightly" as a suzuki samurai (laugh all you want, those little buggers had TONS of offroad potential)? K ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:40:55 -0700 From: john meister Subject: fsj: Re: QT vs QD in real world conditions (long) On 4/11/02 8:53 PM, "Jim Maierle" wrote: > On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 07:31 PM, john meister wrote: >> Jim, >> >> I agree with you that tires are critical. My '99 Grand Cherokee with >> Quadradrive would slide off the hill here in Snohomish while my son's >> '77 Cherokee with the Dana 20 would make it. I had Yokohoma "street" tires at the time. I put the SAME tires (Michelin LTX) on my '99 WJ that were on >> the '77 SJ and the results (and conditions) were RADICALLY different. > > I just read a note from Peter Matusov where he claims that a "properly > running" SJ cherokee (I'm assuming widetrack, etc) will always wheel > better than a WJ, he says especially in deep mud and snow. He said it > had been tested and proven that this was the case, but in my reply I > forgot to ask him in what test. I can definitely see great potential in > the system judging by how well it did with bald stock tires. With the > same ones as the Cherokee has, if they'd fit, I'm sure it would have > done fantastically well compared with its performance on its current > tires. That delay bugs me though, and you can't always use low range in > deep snow or mud; it just digs you a hole at the crucial moment when you > have to start moving. I still wish there was a "lock" button or lever > position for high range. Climbing hills, on the other hand, like you're The delay reminded me of the way the True Trac engages... Once you get accustomed to the system it's quite natural and controllable. As in most cases MOMENTUM is always your best friend. > talking about would be a breeze with the progressive limited slips in > the tc and axles all locking in and pulling you up regardless of tires > in the air, on mud, etc. I can definitely see the WJ's advantage and > the SJs disadvantage. My tires were also quite a bit wider, giving me > more flotation. If you read my earlier post, I said how my dad tried to > get out the same way today with the old Suburban after a lot of rain and > thoroughly buried it because there was about a foot of snow UNDER the > tracks I made with the Cherokee which had since softened up a lot. > >> Anyway, I believe that the WJ only weighs in at about 3,900lbs and is >> even lighter then the Liberty (KJ). Your Cherokee is at least 4,500lbs if >> it's an ounce, especially with the old QT. :) My '81 Wagoneer tipped the >> scale at 5,200lbs... Either way, your Cherokee had at least 400 lbs on the >> WJ. > > I'm confused on the whole weight thing now. Everything I read puts the > GCs around 4500, and the scale I had the truck weighed on says about I had the specs somewhere... I'm sitting on a plane at 35,000 feet and not sure if I've got the info on this system or not... battery at 56%, dinner about to be served... :) I'll put the G4 to sleep, eat, then look at the specs I have... FWIW, the dealer pointed out that the KJ is 50lbs heavier then the GC, cited the GC at 3,900lbs. It does have a lot of lightweight materials in it... Couldn't find it on this system, will check it out when I get home... > 4300. I think I'll try a different and more sensitive scale that I > know of to get a better reading. I'll get back to you on it. Your > position makes the most sense, but its bugging me so I'll have to find > out for sure or it'll drive me nuts. > >> And yes, the QT does lock up in low range on the QD setup. The noises >> you heard were the gerotor pumps engaging... > > Am I correct in assuming that the center (transfer case) pump engages > the clutch pack in high range only after the pump generates sufficient > pressure (via wheelspin), and if the speed differential between front > and rear is not maintained, the pressure will bleed off after a short > delay, so that if you want to engage the front again, you have to spin > the rear wheels again? I noticed that if the rear spins, then the tc > locks and the front wheels spin. you can get them all to spin again > immediately even after completely stopping for a short period of time. > But if you let it set for a couple seconds without getting on the gas > again, you have to spin the rears again to engage the front. Did you > notice this? > > So, let's try this run again with good treads on the WJ and NOT in your > ruts >> and I think you'll be surprised at the outcome. Even with stock tires >> it'll >> do fine. > > I'd love to try it. If only he had newer tires on his rig. Maybe this > will get him to go out and buy some for a rematch : ) Keep us posted. :) >> If you can get the movie down to downloadable proportions I'll put it on >> http://wagoneers.com Might work better to break it up into a series of >> smaller ones... Email it as an attachment and I won't download them >> to my >> pc (24600 connection!), I'll just save them on my server. > > I'm working on an mpg right now, since quicktime is better looking but I > couldn't find a compre1ssion that would make it small enough. What's the > largest single file you'd want to deal with? Whatever can be downloaded on a 26400 connection would be nice, Maybe a meg or two would be reasonable... lots of folks have fast connections... but I don't. :) > > Jim - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com often via PINE on Linux ** (prefer plain text emails please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:37:24 -0600 From: "Daniel Beiers" Subject: Re: fsj: MSD mine went south just as i had fixed the running with the key off thing. apparently its somewhat common. had to send it to msd for service (its still sitting on my desk at work consequently) i have heard from many people who don't like them that they are unreliable. anyone want to buy an msd 6a that was used for less than a week? :) msd will fix it if its out.. good luck dan >Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:06:31 -0700 (PDT) >From: Alexander Wall >Subject: fsj: MSD > > I took my dead waggy into an auto-electric specialist, and they told me >that my MSD-6T is bad, >and my F*rd TFI coil is bad. > Has anyone ever had an MSD ignition just suddenly go "bad"? I have >never heard of this, and am >sceptical. > I fear that these folks just want to blame the non-factory stuff instead >of trying to figure out >the real problem. > >Thanks, > >Alex > >===== >Alexander Wall >Spokane, WA >================================================================================= >"Where there's a will, there's a way." - Eliza Cook >"Where there's a way, there's a construction crew disrupting traffic!" - >Alex Wall _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 16:07:48 EDT From: RMSquaredJeeps-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: MY FSJ IS IN AN ON-LINE CONTEST -- NEED YOUR VOTE I belong to a web site called MovieCars.com and have registered my 1969 Super Wagoneer with them in the hope it might find its way into a movie, TV show, music video or commercial. Every month they run a car show for the members and this month I decided to enter. I'd like to ask members of the on-line Full Size Jeep community to step up and support one of us...namely me. You can view the contest at: http://www.movievehicles.com/car_show/car_show1.htm You'll have to scroll down to the bottom of the page to vote for my Super Waggy. Normally I wouldn't stoop this low but I figure that others are doing the same thing so why shouldn't I? They charge you $25 to register your first vehicle, $5 for each vehicle listed after that. Since I live in Orange County, about an hour away from Hollywood, I didn't think it was a bad idea. Hell, maybe my rig will end up on That 70s Show for God's sake. Plus it seems that you can't turn on the TV and not see an FSJ in TV shows or commercials. The state of California is currently running a tourism spot, the one with Jack Nicholson, and there's a woman leaning on the hood of her 70s Cherokee with the Golden Gate Bridge in the background. Maybe she's a member of one of these lists. I'd really appreciate it if you could take two minutes and vote for my rig...it's the only Jeep/AMC/Kaiser/Willys in this month's contest. And spread the word around to your Internet-capable Jeep friends, ask them to take a look. Have a great weekend, Richard Truesdell Yorba Linda, CA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 01:06:19 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: Black Bear fees A: Driving on gravel roads is hypocritical? Driving through swamps and tundra is that! Not driving where no grass grows! From: Tesar Landon-r16884 Subject: fsj: Black Bear fees Umm, I don't mind paying a reasonable fee to drive on these roads. The concept of having 150 full-size jeeps running around on gravel roads with 'tread lightly' stickers is hypocritical. I will incur expenses associated with land management, and am willing to absorb some of the cost, just as I do when I visit state/nat'l parks, register my vehicle, pay for gas, etc. Maybe I'm a sheep here, but I can appreciate that as our hobby grows, land management costs will increase, and the general population should not absorb all of that cost. I am coming for the driving, as well as the appreciation of the beautiful Colorado outdoors. - - - Landon '89 GW Austin ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1621 **************************