From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Jul 2 17:00:28 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, July 2 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1679 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: re: fsj: looking for somethings/tranny-transfer Re: fsj: Diesel Mercedes Jeep spotted Re: fsj: Diesel Mercedes Jeep spotted Re: fsj: Diesel Mercedes Jeep spotted RE: fsj: Diesel Mercedes Jeep spotted Re: fsj: Diesel Mercedes Jeep spotted fsj: fwd: New Classified Ad Created (not mine) fsj: Full Size Jeep Invasion Newsletter [V2/I4] fsj: the perfect Jeep accessory... fsj: Tradesmans Tool Definitions Re: [fsj: Rez Report] Re: [fsj: vacuum,paint,heat riser] fsj: Re: spark plug heat range and MSD troubles FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:30:41 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: re: fsj: looking for somethings/tranny-transfer A: Not sure what the spec is. I just go by feel. From: Tesar Landon-r16884 Subject: re: fsj: looking for somethings/tranny-transfer Thanks, Jim. that's good stuff. How much slack is acceptable in the front driveshaft? Does it matter if the xfer case is in hi range or low range? - - - Landon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:45:11 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: Diesel Mercedes Jeep spotted A: It's NOT a Gelaendewagen! This was a 2 dr, almost postal Jeep rig. It had a pair of front seats, and what looked like a king cab window behind that with no room for even a jump seat (DINK mobile!). The front end was much shorter, and it was a 4 cyl diesel. It's an '03 model of whatever it is. Very short, narrow wheelbase (shorter than my Comanche, and about as wide.) Both axles were RH offset (at least the rear was) From: RFISCHEL-at-osc.state.ny.us Subject: Re: fsj: Diesel Mercedes Jeep spotted Sounds like the G500 aka Gelaendewagen. Up until this year it was a speciality import into the U.S., about $125K. Now MB U.S.A. is importing them at about $75K. Very similar to what MB sells to the German, Swiss and Austrian armies. It is definitely a wolf or should I say mountain-goat in sheep's clothing. The G500 will go anywhere any stock JEEP could go, and most likely a few places more. It's nice to be able to independently lock up the transfer case, front or real axle. The U.S. version does not come with a diesel option but it is available outside the country. My guess is about 1% of the G500's imported into the U.S. will see much more than a gravel driveway as far as off-roadin' is concerned. The car is real popular with rap music stars, painted black with the trim all done in gold . definitely not the type of car driven by most FSJ fans. See links: http://www.mercedesshop.com/g500.htm http://www.mbusa.com/brand/container.jsp?/models/main.jsp&modelCode=G500&src= MODELSELECTOR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 14:56:23 -0400 From: RFISCHEL-at-osc.state.ny.us Subject: Re: fsj: Diesel Mercedes Jeep spotted How about an A class, it's the only small MB I can think of. Doesn't much look like the orange THING I had in high school, but it may be what you are talking about. They were going to import them into the U.S., but they had a roll-over problem; in addition, MB did not want to take the chance of degrading the marque. See the link: http://www.mercedes-benz.com/e/cars/a-class/default.htm "Jim B" .com> cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: fsj: Diesel Mercedes Jeep spotted owner-fsj-at-digest .net 07/01/02 02:45 PM Please respond to "Jim B" A: It's NOT a Gelaendewagen! This was a 2 dr, almost postal Jeep rig. It had a pair of front seats, and what looked like a king cab window behind that with no room for even a jump seat (DINK mobile!). The front end was much shorter, and it was a 4 cyl diesel. It's an '03 model of whatever it is. Very short, narrow wheelbase (shorter than my Comanche, and about as wide.) Both axles were RH offset (at least the rear was) From: RFISCHEL-at-osc.state.ny.us Subject: Re: fsj: Diesel Mercedes Jeep spotted Sounds like the G500 aka Gelaendewagen. Up until this year it was a speciality import into the U.S., about $125K. Now MB U.S.A. is importing them at about $75K. Very similar to what MB sells to the German, Swiss and Austrian armies. It is definitely a wolf or should I say mountain-goat in sheep's clothing. The G500 will go anywhere any stock JEEP could go, and most likely a few places more. It's nice to be able to independently lock up the transfer case, front or real axle. The U.S. version does not come with a diesel option but it is available outside the country. My guess is about 1% of the G500's imported into the U.S. will see much more than a gravel driveway as far as off-roadin' is concerned. The car is real popular with rap music stars, painted black with the trim all done in gold . definitely not the type of car driven by most FSJ fans. See links: http://www.mercedesshop.com/g500.htm http://www.mbusa.com/brand/container.jsp?/models/main.jsp&modelCode=G500&src MODELSELECTOR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 12:20:33 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: Diesel Mercedes Jeep spotted A: Nope. Not that either. It had a similar front end to the G500, but was only 2 dr. It looked EXACTLY the same size as a TJ with MB emblems and body lines. (I WIsh I'd had my camera!) - ----- Original Message ----- From: RFISCHEL-at-osc.state.ny.us Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 12:01 PM To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com Cc: fsj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: fsj: Diesel Mercedes Jeep spotted How about an A class, it's the only small MB I can think of. Doesn't much look like the orange THING I had in high school, but it may be what you are talking about. They were going to import them into the U.S., but they had a roll-over problem; in addition, MB did not want to take the chance of degrading the marque. See the link: http://www.mercedes-benz.com/e/cars/a-class/default.htm "Jim B" .com> cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: fsj: Diesel Mercedes Jeep spotted owner-fsj-at-digest .net 07/01/02 02:45 PM Please respond to "Jim B" A: It's NOT a Gelaendewagen! This was a 2 dr, almost postal Jeep rig. It had a pair of front seats, and what looked like a king cab window behind that with no room for even a jump seat (DINK mobile!). The front end was much shorter, and it was a 4 cyl diesel. It's an '03 model of whatever it is. Very short, narrow wheelbase (shorter than my Comanche, and about as wide.) Both axles were RH offset (at least the rear was) From: RFISCHEL-at-osc.state.ny.us Subject: Re: fsj: Diesel Mercedes Jeep spotted Sounds like the G500 aka Gelaendewagen. Up until this year it was a speciality import into the U.S., about $125K. Now MB U.S.A. is importing them at about $75K. Very similar to what MB sells to the German, Swiss and Austrian armies. It is definitely a wolf or should I say mountain-goat in sheep's clothing. The G500 will go anywhere any stock JEEP could go, and most likely a few places more. It's nice to be able to independently lock up the transfer case, front or real axle. The U.S. version does not come with a diesel option but it is available outside the country. My guess is about 1% of the G500's imported into the U.S. will see much more than a gravel driveway as far as off-roadin' is concerned. The car is real popular with rap music stars, painted black with the trim all done in gold . definitely not the type of car driven by most FSJ fans. See links: http://www.mercedesshop.com/g500.htm http://www.mbusa.com/brand/container.jsp?/models/main.jsp&modelCode=G500&src MODELSELECTOR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 12:27:21 -0700 From: "Terrill, Patrick" Subject: RE: fsj: Diesel Mercedes Jeep spotted Jim, are you so sure? In the US, onlt the 5.0L V8 G500 is available, but the G-class comes in a 2.7L CDI inline 5cyl and a 4.0L CDI V8 in Europe. Both are deisels. And as for two-door postal look, the G-class comes in three varieties in Europe, the station short, station long and the cabriolet. Check them out at the Mercedes Benz website. http://www.mercedesbenz.com/e/cars/g-class/variationen_rel.htm It may not be what you saw but it does seem to fit you description. Patrick - -----Original Message----- From: Jim B [mailto:carnuck-at-hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 11:45 AM To: local Jeep list Subject: Re: fsj: Diesel Mercedes Jeep spotted A: It's NOT a Gelaendewagen! This was a 2 dr, almost postal Jeep rig. It had a pair of front seats, and what looked like a king cab window behind that with no room for even a jump seat (DINK mobile!). The front end was much shorter, and it was a 4 cyl diesel. It's an '03 model of whatever it is. Very short, narrow wheelbase (shorter than my Comanche, and about as wide.) Both axles were RH offset (at least the rear was) From: RFISCHEL-at-osc.state.ny.us Subject: Re: fsj: Diesel Mercedes Jeep spotted Sounds like the G500 aka Gelaendewagen. Up until this year it was a speciality import into the U.S., about $125K. Now MB U.S.A. is importing them at about $75K. Very similar to what MB sells to the German, Swiss and Austrian armies. It is definitely a wolf or should I say mountain-goat in sheep's clothing. The G500 will go anywhere any stock JEEP could go, and most likely a few places more. It's nice to be able to independently lock up the transfer case, front or real axle. The U.S. version does not come with a diesel option but it is available outside the country. My guess is about 1% of the G500's imported into the U.S. will see much more than a gravel driveway as far as off-roadin' is concerned. The car is real popular with rap music stars, painted black with the trim all done in gold . definitely not the type of car driven by most FSJ fans. See links: http://www.mercedesshop.com/g500.htm http://www.mbusa.com/brand/container.jsp?/models/main.jsp&modelCode=G500&src = MODELSELECTOR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 12:31:48 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: Diesel Mercedes Jeep spotted A: It looked just like the Cabriolet, but no back end. The rear "hatch" was even with the a framed glass and had a spare tire attached to it (that's why it looked weird to me) Most definitely diesel (unless the motor was knocking and stinking) and in the area where I work (a stone's throw from Bill Gates) there is a LOT of money being thrown around! (I hope to catch some soon!) - ----- Original Message ----- From: Terrill, Patrick Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 12:26 PM To: 'Jim B'; local Jeep list Subject: RE: fsj: Diesel Mercedes Jeep spotted Jim, are you so sure? In the US, onlt the 5.0L V8 G500 is available, but the G-class comes in a 2.7L CDI inline 5cyl and a 4.0L CDI V8 in Europe. Both are deisels. And as for two-door postal look, the G-class comes in three varieties in Europe, the station short, station long and the cabriolet. Check them out at the Mercedes Benz website. http://www.mercedesbenz.com/e/cars/g-class/variationen_rel.htm It may not be what you saw but it does seem to fit you description. Patrick - -----Original Message----- From: Jim B [mailto:carnuck-at-hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 11:45 AM To: local Jeep list Subject: Re: fsj: Diesel Mercedes Jeep spotted A: It's NOT a Gelaendewagen! This was a 2 dr, almost postal Jeep rig. It had a pair of front seats, and what looked like a king cab window behind that with no room for even a jump seat (DINK mobile!). The front end was much shorter, and it was a 4 cyl diesel. It's an '03 model of whatever it is. Very short, narrow wheelbase (shorter than my Comanche, and about as wide.) Both axles were RH offset (at least the rear was) From: RFISCHEL-at-osc.state.ny.us Subject: Re: fsj: Diesel Mercedes Jeep spotted Sounds like the G500 aka Gelaendewagen. Up until this year it was a speciality import into the U.S., about $125K. Now MB U.S.A. is importing them at about $75K. Very similar to what MB sells to the German, Swiss and Austrian armies. It is definitely a wolf or should I say mountain-goat in sheep's clothing. The G500 will go anywhere any stock JEEP could go, and most likely a few places more. It's nice to be able to independently lock up the transfer case, front or real axle. The U.S. version does not come with a diesel option but it is available outside the country. My guess is about 1% of the G500's imported into the U.S. will see much more than a gravel driveway as far as off-roadin' is concerned. The car is real popular with rap music stars, painted black with the trim all done in gold . definitely not the type of car driven by most FSJ fans. See links: http://www.mercedesshop.com/g500.htm http://www.mbusa.com/brand/container.jsp?/models/main.jsp&modelCode=G500&src = MODELSELECTOR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 12:33:33 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: fwd: New Classified Ad Created (not mine) A New Classified Ad has been placed in the "FSJeeps" group at SmartGroups.com by BILL WILHELM. Item Name: [For Sale] 1980 J-20 Description: REBUILT 304 ENGINE AND NEW CLUTCH. DANA 60 REAR AXLE, DANA 44 FRONT WITH DISK BRAKES. BODY BEAT, DRIVETRAIN STRONG Price Details: 2000 US Dollars Web Location: http://www.smartgroups.com/ads/ads.cfm?GID=254450&AdID=3 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 15:18:44 -0600 (MDT) From: michael.shimniok-at-usa.net Subject: fsj: Full Size Jeep Invasion Newsletter [V2/I4] - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 2002 FULL SIZE JEEP INVASION NEWSLETTER - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - July 1, 2002 Volume 2, Issue 4 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - REGISTRATION CLOSES JULY 5 Time is almost up. If you haven't sent in your registration fees, send them in today or tomorrow! Your envelope must be postmarked NO LATER than July 5. We CANNOT accept any payments after registration closes! Those of you who have not registered yet, visit the following URL, fill in the information, and send in your payment and invoice today or tomorrow. http://www.cfsja.org/2002/cgi-bin/regform.cgi Those of you who have registered and paid have until July 5 to make any last minute changes to your trail picks, mailing addresses, or email addresses. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - FRIDAY TRAIL PICKS Those of you interested in attending the bring your own grub picnic and contests in Animas Forks on Friday can select any trail run that passes through or near Animas Forks. Any of the following trail runs will make a stop in Animas Forks to join in the fun for a few hours. We'll make sure we leave enough time to finish the trail runs before it gets too late. Minnie and Maggie Gulches Mini Alpine Loop Placer and Picayne Gulches Poughkeepsie Gulch If you are signed up for Imogene and Ophir Passes or for Clear Lake trails, you won't have time to finish the trail and then join the Animas Forks Friday festivities. Anyone who wants to leave early or skip the events can take a graded dirt road to Silverton. [end] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 20:05:10 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: the perfect Jeep accessory... ...easily towed behind your Jeep... :) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1746207214 Just let someone say you're full of hot air... rofl... john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 02:04:26 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Tradesmans Tool Definitions From: "Stu & Carmel Fitchett" To: "Steve Potts" , Subject: Tradesmans Tool Definitions Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 07:31:23 +1000 As if we did not know already Hammer Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowdays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate expensive car parts not far from the object you are trying to hit. BFH (Big F_ _ _ _ _ Hammer) As above but locates thumbs and other sensitive hand parts Mechanics Knife Used to open and slice through the contents of cardboard boxes delivered to your door. Works particularly well on boxes containing gaskets and rubber parts. Electric Drill Normally used for spinning steel rivets in their holes until you die of old age, but also works great for drilling rollbar holes in the floor just above brake lines that go to rear wheel cylinders or electrical wiring Pliers Used to round off bolt heads Hacksaw One of the family of cutting tools built on the ouija board principle. It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable motion and the more you attempt to influence its course, the more dismal your future becomes. Vice grips Used to round of bolt heads. If nothing else available can be used to transfer intense welding heat to the palm of your hand Drill press A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching flat metal bar stock from your hands so that it smacks you in the chest and flings your beer across the room. Wire Wheel Cleans rust off old bolts and throws them somewhere under the workbench with the speed of light. Also removes fingerprints and hard earned guitar calluses in about the time it takes you to say -at-$-at--at-^ I seem to have many of these tools Stu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 09:33:40 -0600 From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [fsj: Rez Report] "Vince Orr" wrote: > How much of the vacuum line mess do I really need? There are so many > friggin vacuum lines that all seem to go nowhere........not sure if my > Edelbrock carb has as many nipples as the Motorcrap carb. My Edelbrock 1400 (elec choke, egr) had enough lines to be a direct replacement so that I could run all the vacuum gear. I did, however, delete the 2nd CTO on the thermostat housing, which advances idle timing (and hence idle rpm) if temps exceed 225 degrees as it seemed useless if not counterproductive. Plus I had to swap on a thermostat housing with a broken CTO. :) > What if I delete the gas vapor cannister? Uh... why??? It's preventing noxious vapors venting into the atmosphere. There is no reason to remove it. It will only remove one vacuum line (the purge/dump line) and will leave you with a gas tank vent tube, carb bowl vent, and pcv tube to deal with. More trouble than it's worth. The 2nd CTO is the only thing I can really think of that's worth removing. I'd hate to give up the AIR system and wreck my cat. or disable EGR and potentially bring about pinging. Oh, I did remove the snorkle air cleaner and associated vacuum circuits some time ago. > Also, how important is that flippy exhaust butterfly valve on the > starboard pipe? Can I cut out the butterfly without hurting something > or should I replace it with a new one? I removed the butterfly valve, pulled out the shaft, and eventually replaced it with a bolt/nut and washers. It should help drivability in cold weather before the vehicle warms up. > The engine is painted silver now. Should I go with AMC colors? Current > color sort of matches the Edelbrock parts but blue would really set off > my chrome valve covers and air cleaner cover! Good luck finding AMC blue anywhere. If anyone knows where I'd like to know (just for giggles). Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 09:47:20 -0600 From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [fsj: vacuum,paint,heat riser] Tesar Landon-r16884 wrote: > Don't hook up the AIR pump. Forgive me, but I beg to differ. Many catalytic converters are designed to have air pumped into them, otherwise they fail prematurely. It is a myth that AIR pumps rob the engine of power. Provided it is in proper functioning condition (a key factor) you should be able to spin it with your hand easily. I estimate it draws about .003 horsepower. :) If it is nearly failed, it will be hard to turn esp at higher rpms and will rob the motor of power but that isn't the fault of the AIR pump. :) > Keep the vacuum bulb, think this helps the 4x4 engage (I'm talking '89 > here so your setup may be different) The round ball on the firewall is required to engage 4wd as well as your heater/ac controls. It is a vacuum resevoir. You could remove your cruise control gear... that'd free up some space on the driver fender like the coffee can resevoir and the servo... I've removed the former but not the latter since it is taped together with a bunch of other stuff going into the cab thru the firewall and I just haven't gotten around to it. :) > Keep the PCV setup. > Run a direct line from 'ported vacuum' to the distributor. That would simplify things. Normally when the vehicle is cold it is fed a mix of ported and manifold vacuum that is metered through the non-linear vacuum regulator. Long and short of it is that this device limits the amount of vacuum advance you get and keeps it within a certain range. You could run the vehicle like this all the time but I couldn't get it to perform very well that way when I tried. If you do this, it would get rid of the rats nest of NLVR and CTO hoses, that's for sure. > Forgot whether you will/will not have the EGR. Depends on the carb. If the carb has an EGR port, then you can plug it in and go. > Might be good to install one old vacuum 'tree' in the new manifold > just so you have a switch to play with. AIR and EGR goes thru the rear CTO... I'd keep one up front in case you want to try running manifold vacuum when cold. Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 09:59:36 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Re: spark plug heat range and MSD troubles A: If you had a problem with pinging I could see the plugs being part of the problem (maybe the plugwires are overheating?) but more likely the box is the problem. Put an icebag on it to see if the problems go away (when it gets to the point of missing, without shutting off the truck) You may have too much/too little voltage going into the MSD box which is making it act up. If you shut it off and switch to the Perts, does the problem go away immediately? What if you shut it off and wait the same amount of time that it would take to switch to the Perts? Does the box have a good heat sinc under it? Is it located near a HUGE source of heat? (Besides the motor, Like under the AC compressor hose) From: "Lindel Easley" Subject: Re: spark plug heat range and MSD troubles Looking at it from a test technician, in a manufacturing environment, I'd say they don't temp/vibration test their units. Granted, the MSD isn't a military spec item, but it will see some extreme temps, and loads of vibration, so that kind of testing wouldn't be out of the norm. I guess MSD systems don't cost enough to warrant testing that involves heat, cold and vibration. Lindel - ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeepmr" To: <1FSJ-at-yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 8:13 PM Subject: [1FSJ] spark plug heat range and MSD troubles > Got the MSD back from service.... it checked good as per their > specc (4 hrs bench testing) > > Here is my problem: after about 90 min continuous freeway drive > the MSD will start to misfire, so i disconnect the MSD module > and use the pertronix unit by itself. if the weather is a bit colder i > can run 100 to 110 mins before symptoms occur. > > If i do errands i can drive for weeks for 30 to 60 minutes drive an > dnothing will happens. > > the only answer i got from MSD service is that i could use colder > sparl plugs... i am using the champion 405 ( a notch hotter than > the standard 404) > > What are your thoughts. Spark plugs look really good, latte color. > > MIchel > 74 wag (stock except for points replaced by pertronix) ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1679 **************************