From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Jul 16 17:34:00 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, July 16 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1694 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: [fsj: Ouray Prep] Re: fsj: uh oh... Re: [fsj: Ouray Prep] Re: [Re: [fsj: Ouray Prep]] Re: [RE: [fsj: Ouray Prep]] Re: [RE: [fsj: Ouray Prep]] Re: [Re: [fsj: Ouray Prep]] fsj: J-10 seats RE: [RE: [fsj: Ouray Prep]] Re: [RE: [fsj: Ouray Prep]] Re: fsj: J-10 seats Re: [Re: [FSJparts] Re: [fsj: uh oh... the pictures...]] FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:00:45 -0700 From: Tesar Landon-r16884 Subject: RE: [fsj: Ouray Prep] - -----Original Message----- From: Michael Shimniok [mailto:michael.shimniok-at-usa.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 3:01 PM To: Landon Tesar; fsj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: [fsj: Ouray Prep] Tesar Landon-r16884 wrote: > thought it would be good for each of us going to Ouray to list what we are doing to prepare. There is a good list at http://www.cfsja.org . There may be some ideas that others are missing, also we can appreciate the results more when we meet, like I wanna see/hear Vince's new motor in Rez. Good idea. As a result of ALL the upgrades I've been doing a lot of this already (why maintain when you can just rebuild and replace??) :) > 8. Maybe new AC compressor, I've been without it, we're having a cool > summer. We're not. Up in the high country it shouldn't be too bad, but I can't even use the A/C without overheating the truck. On a related note, I am going to have to finish my onboard air install... using dual yorks mounted vertically; one for air, the original for ac. Need to have a machine shop (or somebody) build me a balanced, true water pump pulley with an extra front pulley to run the compressor. I think it should work pretty well. Maybe you can elaborate, Michael. How is this gonna fit under the hood? Why do you need two of these? > 11. Clean/Lube the rear window mechanism. Yah... so... how do you lube it, exactly, just the gears or what? And what lube do you use? Ever since I pulled mine apart to bypass the safety switch, it has been klunking and causing trouble. Umm, I think I read tech notes about this. But you can remove the rear panel, support the glass and extend it, and yes, lube the gears. What I found was that the old grease was dry, had collected dirt that was in the trays, and cleaning is as important as lubrication. > 14. Solder connections and reinstall the subwoofer I'm due for upgrading the rear speakers... the 5" spkrs I got just don't put out diddly for bass, so 6x9's are in the plans... along with plywood or MDF covering the back quarters to enhance bass. I'm toying with the idea of a sub as well, maybe a 10" in each quarter... I heard that someone put 6.5" round in w/o too much trouble. These are better than 6x9. Wish I'd done that. > 18. Retorque exhaust manifold bolts I have a lot more upgrades to finish, too. Finished installing the 6m radio last nite. Hoping to wire up the offroad lites Wed evening thru an overhead switch panel. The list is much larger than this... I'm kind of in a panic trying to figure out how to get it all done (and I insist it ALL has to get done this time cuz I can't "wait until before Ouray" anymore...) :) think that if you don't write them down and prioritize, panic sets in. When you can check items off and see the progress, the perspective is better. I'm planning on spare alt, water pump, p/s pump, ignition parts, and basic repair stuff like hoses, clamps, duct tape, bailing wire, all my tools, etc... If I remember to get all the extras I still don't have, I should be able to fix most common failures. But since 70% of my truck's mechanicals are rebuilt, I'm hoping that won't be an issue. :) I think it will be amazing after we get home, how little of the stuff we take will actually get used, but I plan to bring a wheel bearing socket anyway. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 13:51:43 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: fsj: uh oh... On Tue, Jul 16, 2002 at 10:46:22AM -0700, Jim B wrote: > A: I'd return the favor, but my wife says I have to get rid of what I have > already! BTW, The NP229 would make a ratcheting noise if the chain was > slipping, and only in 4WD. In 2WD, slippage has to be the trans (or if the > front axle isn't engaged, then the VC will be slipping. Not a good thing for > it!) Sounds like it's time for a Jim Blair ATF-shake :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:04:22 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [fsj: Ouray Prep] On Tue, Jul 16, 2002 at 02:00:45PM -0700, Tesar Landon-r16884 wrote: > I think it will be amazing after we get home, how little of the stuff we take > will actually get used, but I plan to bring a wheel bearing socket anyway. I thought the idea was to bring it along so you wouldn't need it :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:20:14 -0600 From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [Re: [fsj: Ouray Prep]] Kevin Pekarek wrote: > I snagged a 50qt igloo version of the same. It rules. I didn't tie mine Come to think of it, mine's an igloo. I can barely remember my own name sometimes. Hate to see how bad my memory gets when I actually get sort of old :) It's nice in the back seat when driving cuz whoever isn't driving can snag soft drinks or water out of it. :) I wired up one of those 3-way cig lighter things under the a/c vent wired to battery so I can leave it always on. Found a device online that electromechanically switches off the battery if it gets below 11v so no fears leaving it in the vehicle overnight if I want to. The other thing I've done related to tying stuff down is drilled some holes in the back for eye bolts (used a stack of bolts and washers on each side), to which I've attached some plastic-sheathed braided steel rope and used carabiners to hook ammo cans and other spares/equipment/tools to this rope... figuring that it'll at least absorb some speed if not stop it out right in the event of collision, and will keep the items controlled in a rollover, etc. I - -really- don't want 50mm ammo cans lodging themselves at the base of my spine. :) > My jeep box that I take with me to the desert includes: > - few u-joints Oops, better check to see I have spare ujoints. OTOH I will have spare driveshafts too. Good idea on the headlamp. I need to stock back up on ignition modules (I'm down to 'only' two) I'll have to remember to carry some spare relays too. I carry recovery gear like winch kit, large tow strap, chain, hi lift, stuff like that. > - drum brake kits (the springs and fasteners and adjusters, new Good point. I have my old hardware. Brakes are going to come in real handy in Ouray. > - few quarts of oil > - couple quarts of ATF On the big trips I carry two 30mm ammo cans of fluids or more if I can fit it. They each hold 8 quart bottles perfectly (I usually do 5 oil, 4 atf, 1 p/s, and one brake and then whatever else I can cram in. I used to stuff a jug of water/coolant in the quarter panel along with a jug of diff fluid. Thankfully the NP cases use ATF so that reduces the fluid demand. And I suppose in a pinch atf would work in the p/s pump? > - DC/AC inverter (for charging HT batteries while you're driving, or As in hanheld transceiver? Ham radio? Those who are, donno if you saw the updated call in frequencies but some repeater owners down there were kind enough to let us use their repeater for communications. Too cool. > - wheel bearings and some grease Good idea. I like to carry 1-2 spare hub assemblies, sans spindle and a couple extra manual locking hubs or fixed (stock selectrac) hubs. I can see a junkyard raid in my future. :) > necessary because I don't run a blazer with a 350 chevy, and hate > waiting for parts to arrive in a strange town. Yup, altho FWIW, the local shops know we're coming. I don't know if they plan to order spare parts, but they ought to. Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:49:08 -0600 From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [RE: [fsj: Ouray Prep]] Tesar Landon-r16884 wrote: > Maybe you can elaborate, Michael. How is this gonna fit under the hood? > Why do you need two of these? It isn't that I NEED two, I WANT two. One for AC, one for OBA. I want to have my cake and eat it too (the story of this truck, really). Also I hate doing things the easy way. :) I've seen several 78-ish Cherokees that run vertical compressors from the factory. It fits under the hood with no problems at all. They came with an idler pulley that attached to the driver side of the compressor and spanned over to one of the p/s bracket bolts that hooks into the water pump (where the spacer is on most of our rigs). My compressor is already vertical, but need to add the idler assembly. Then, space it forward enough to align with the 4th pulley that will be added to the front of the water pump pulley. I found that Eagle cars used a smaller water pump pulley which will clear the crank pulley more easily than an FSJ pulley, so it is a question of how to modify it to mount or weld to the existing water pump pulley. Then I'll use angle steel for the brackets to attach the 2nd compressor right next to but slightly in front of the original. So the belt will run in front of the old compressor, over the idler, and down to the water pump. I will have to work on additional bracing to the block, I suspect. Tho the addition of the idler will help. Haven't sorted that out yet. Why not just loop an alternator belt over a 2nd compressor? I've seen this done (back in 1999 which is what originally inspired me, but I'm obviously real slow in getting this done!). I figured (a) the alt belts are already prone to slip and this would reduce one of those belt's traction (b) adjusting the belts properly would be a nightmare. I'd rather have a solid mount compressor with an adjustable idler pulley that doesn't interfere with the stock belts. I felt like this would be the cleanest install for dual yorks. I could've installed a pulley on the alt but it doesn't really lend itself to that. I can't give up the AIR pump, otherwise maybe a guy could mount it over there. On a related topic, I've seen one company selling what looks to me like a winch or starter motor hooked up to a york compressor fed by 12V. Seems like that'd be a trick way to go. Mount it in the back in a quarter panel and have a fitting poking out somewhere to hook into. No engine clutter, just battery drain. Something like this would be significantly more effective than most if not all portable electric compressors. > Umm, I think I read tech notes about this. I should RTFM in other words. :) I keep forgetting to do that. :( > I heard that someone put 6.5" round in w/o too much trouble. These are > better than 6x9. Wish I'd done that. Why better than 6x9? I thought 6x9's put out better bass? I have 6" in my 85 that have reasonable extension (but are otherwise poor). > think that if you don't write them down and prioritize, panic sets in. > When you can check items off and see the progress, the perspective is > better. The lists do help... time to update mine I guess. > I think it will be amazing after we get home, how little of the stuff > we take will actually get used, but I plan to bring a wheel bearing > socket anyway. The reverse is also true... it'll be amazing how the things that break are invariably the ones we don't have spares for. :) It sure is a nice feeling when something breaks and you just shrug calmly and go, "yah, got one of those spare and all the tools I need. I should be back on the road in 20 minutes." Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:49:08 -0600 From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [RE: [fsj: Ouray Prep]] Tesar Landon-r16884 wrote: > Maybe you can elaborate, Michael. How is this gonna fit under the hood? > Why do you need two of these? It isn't that I NEED two, I WANT two. One for AC, one for OBA. I want to have my cake and eat it too (the story of this truck, really). Also I hate doing things the easy way. :) I've seen several 78-ish Cherokees that run vertical compressors from the factory. It fits under the hood with no problems at all. They came with an idler pulley that attached to the driver side of the compressor and spanned over to one of the p/s bracket bolts that hooks into the water pump (where the spacer is on most of our rigs). My compressor is already vertical, but need to add the idler assembly. Then, space it forward enough to align with the 4th pulley that will be added to the front of the water pump pulley. I found that Eagle cars used a smaller water pump pulley which will clear the crank pulley more easily than an FSJ pulley, so it is a question of how to modify it to mount or weld to the existing water pump pulley. Then I'll use angle steel for the brackets to attach the 2nd compressor right next to but slightly in front of the original. So the belt will run in front of the old compressor, over the idler, and down to the water pump. I will have to work on additional bracing to the block, I suspect. Tho the addition of the idler will help. Haven't sorted that out yet. Why not just loop an alternator belt over a 2nd compressor? I've seen this done (back in 1999 which is what originally inspired me, but I'm obviously real slow in getting this done!). I figured (a) the alt belts are already prone to slip and this would reduce one of those belt's traction (b) adjusting the belts properly would be a nightmare. I'd rather have a solid mount compressor with an adjustable idler pulley that doesn't interfere with the stock belts. I felt like this would be the cleanest install for dual yorks. I could've installed a pulley on the alt but it doesn't really lend itself to that. I can't give up the AIR pump, otherwise maybe a guy could mount it over there. On a related topic, I've seen one company selling what looks to me like a winch or starter motor hooked up to a york compressor fed by 12V. Seems like that'd be a trick way to go. Mount it in the back in a quarter panel and have a fitting poking out somewhere to hook into. No engine clutter, just battery drain. Something like this would be significantly more effective than most if not all portable electric compressors. > Umm, I think I read tech notes about this. I should RTFM in other words. :) I keep forgetting to do that. :( > I heard that someone put 6.5" round in w/o too much trouble. These are > better than 6x9. Wish I'd done that. Why better than 6x9? I thought 6x9's put out better bass? I have 6" in my 85 that have reasonable extension (but are otherwise poor). > think that if you don't write them down and prioritize, panic sets in. > When you can check items off and see the progress, the perspective is > better. The lists do help... time to update mine I guess. > I think it will be amazing after we get home, how little of the stuff > we take will actually get used, but I plan to bring a wheel bearing > socket anyway. The reverse is also true... it'll be amazing how the things that break are invariably the ones we don't have spares for. :) It sure is a nice feeling when something breaks and you just shrug calmly and go, "yah, got one of those spare and all the tools I need. I should be back on the road in 20 minutes." Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:00:09 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [Re: [fsj: Ouray Prep]] On Tue, Jul 16, 2002 at 03:20:14PM -0600, Michael Shimniok wrote: > Oops, better check to see I have spare ujoints. OTOH I will have spare > driveshafts too. Good idea on the headlamp. I need to stock back up on > ignition modules (I'm down to 'only' two) I'll have to remember to carry some > spare relays too. I carry recovery gear like winch kit, large tow strap, > chain, hi lift, stuff like that. I'm stock height so no high lift yet. The comealong and recovery straps never leave either vehicle - the list was just the spare parts box :) > On the big trips I carry two 30mm ammo cans of fluids or more if I can fit it. > They each hold 8 quart bottles perfectly (I usually do 5 oil, 4 atf, 1 p/s, > and one brake and then whatever else I can cram in. I used to stuff a jug of > water/coolant in the quarter panel along with a jug of diff fluid. Thankfully > the NP cases use ATF so that reduces the fluid demand. And I suppose in a > pinch atf would work in the p/s pump? yup. I also forgot to mention, but I carry a couple things of brake fluid as well. > > - DC/AC inverter (for charging HT batteries while you're driving, or > > As in hanheld transceiver? Ham radio? Those who are, donno if you saw the > updated call in frequencies but some repeater owners down there were kind > enough to let us use their repeater for communications. Too cool. Sort of, HT being applied universally. Sometimes we use 70cm to communicate between trucks, sometimes CB, sometimes the cheapo drug store walkie talkies. It depends on who all comes, and what they run (or are capable of running). The last couple trips, however, they actually were Motorola HT's :) I think it's awesome they're opening up the repeaters up there. > > - wheel bearings and some grease > > Good idea. I like to carry 1-2 spare hub assemblies, sans spindle and a > couple extra manual locking hubs or fixed (stock selectrac) hubs. Spare hubs are one thing I don't have. The 77 is quadratrac, so it's a solid hub anyway, but I really should carry hubs for the 74, which is a factory d20 rig. > I can see a junkyard raid in my future. :) HAHAAH > Yup, altho FWIW, the local shops know we're coming. I don't know if they plan > to order spare parts, but they ought to. you'd like to think so, but with the variety of running gear that jeepers run (stock jeep derived or not), it's impossible to predict all the combinations. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 74 Cherokee 2 door (258 1bbl, T15, D20, open 3.54 d44's) 77 Cherokee 4 door S (401 4bbl, TH400, BW QT, open 3.54 d44's) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:04:11 -0500 From: "Brian Wall" Subject: fsj: J-10 seats Well, you guys are like the mafia. I tried to get out, but you've pulled me back in. After selling my 86 GW last Nov as a down payment on my wife's new vehicle, I broke down and purchased another FSJ -- a 75 J-10. It's in pretty decent shape, but I have some things to address. Like the seat. Can you guys tell me what options I have for an inexpensive swap? Do any other vehicle seats fit? It's good to be back. And, as always, thanks! - ------------------------- Brian Wall 75 Jeep J-10 Oklahoma City ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:12:50 -0700 From: Tesar Landon-r16884 Subject: RE: [RE: [fsj: Ouray Prep]] Ohhhh. COMPRESSED air. Gotcha. I guess the 12V 22gage cigarette lighter adapter made in taiwan with a two foot fishtank tube vibrator/air spitter .0000028 cfm (cubic ft/millenium) isn't gonna cut it. BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. can you paint your truck while it's running? :)) Maybe this is a good way to cut wheelwells - with an air chisel while you're on the trail. How resourceful. Guess there will be quite a line to air tires back up after the trail rides.... - - Landon - -----Original Message----- From: Michael Shimniok [mailto:michael.shimniok-at-usa.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 4:49 PM To: Tesar Landon-r16884; 'Michael Shimniok'; fsj-at-digest.net Cc: fsj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: [RE: [fsj: Ouray Prep]] Tesar Landon-r16884 wrote: > Maybe you can elaborate, Michael. How is this gonna fit under the hood? > Why do you need two of these? It isn't that I NEED two, I WANT two. One for AC, one for OBA. I want to have my cake and eat it too (the story of this truck, really). Also I hate doing things the easy way. :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:23:13 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [RE: [fsj: Ouray Prep]] On Tue, Jul 16, 2002 at 03:12:50PM -0700, Tesar Landon-r16884 wrote: > Ohhhh. COMPRESSED air. Gotcha. I guess the 12V 22gage cigarette lighter > adapter made in taiwan with a two foot fishtank tube vibrator/air spitter > .0000028 cfm (cubic ft/millenium) isn't gonna cut it. > BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. HAH. Exactly. I have a 110v AC one that does a pretty bang up job, then again, I bought it at a hardware store. Pretty heavy duty, and can fill up a 29 pretty quickly. That's what the inverter is for :) > can you paint your truck while it's running? > :)) > Maybe this is a good way to cut wheelwells - with an air chisel while you're > on the trail. > How resourceful. Guess there will be quite a line to air tires back up > after the trail rides.... Yup, not to mention being aired down on pavement tends to shorten tire life, cause gas mileage to go down (more), etc, etc. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:26:16 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: fsj: J-10 seats On Tue, Jul 16, 2002 at 05:04:11PM -0500, Brian Wall wrote: > Well, you guys are like the mafia. I tried to get out, but you've pulled me > back in. After selling my 86 GW last Nov as a down payment on my wife's new > vehicle, I broke down and purchased another FSJ -- a 75 J-10. It's in pretty > decent shape, but I have some things to address. Like the seat. Can you guys > tell me what options I have for an inexpensive swap? Do any other vehicle > seats fit? fugedaboutit. Seriously, what is wrong with the seats? The driver's seat of my 74 was quite fubared, but I was able to peel the vinyl cover off and stuff more foam in, and it helped out a LOT. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:24:32 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [Re: [FSJparts] Re: [fsj: uh oh... the pictures...]] On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, Michael Shimniok wrote: >-->john wrote: >-->> 8 mpg, sagging headliner, >-->> slipping trans and no a/c... I don't think so... HOWEVER, I will >-->> attempt to make it a temporary driver for the summer... :) >--> >-->Wow and all that for ... how much did you pay again, $300? Like we always >-->said in Tucson, "What a gonga!" (that means, 'great deal') >--> >-->Slipping trans is probably just linkage or fluid/filter. 8mpg is probably my guess it's the xfr case... just a hunch... but you could be right... I think he mentioned something about spewing fluid... :) >-->vacuum lines, carb rebuild and slipping trans. No a/c doesn't matter cuz I'm guessing on the mileage, he hasn't driven it... >-->you'll overheat with it on anyway and besides it's prepped for on-board air >-->conversion! Heck, and you've got about 30 days... plenty of time to get 'er sure... I'll whip it right in shape... NOT. The WJ will be nice and comfy... leather seats, a/c... quadradrive... :) It will be cool to see what the WJ will ramp at though... I bet most FSJs will toast it... :) >-->ship shape! :D Why would you ever want to drive a 25mpg, air conditioned, >-->comfortable ZJ when you could roll down the miles in this fine piece of >-->precision machinery?? :) ZJ?!!! no thanks... WJ... ;) Never liked the ZJ. Although I'd consider one now... I wouldn't mind having another XJ, they really are about the best all around Jeep ever made... The WJ is nice, but doesn't have the visibility of the SJ. Now, if I could move the seats and driveline from a WJ into the '83 Wag LTD, NOW THEN I'll have the ultimate FSJ... The 4.7L V8 is a ssssswwweeeetttt motor... sometimes it just flat out surprises me when it winds up... :) john >--> >-->Michael >--> >--> >-->--- >-->Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net >--> "For every complex problem, there is a solution that >--> is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1694 **************************