From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Jul 29 15:45:41 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, July 29 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1706 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1705 (Ernie's in the Islands) fsj: Re: [FSJ-L-VW] (unknown) fsj: Re: [FSJparts] Re: Re: Ouray Invasion Convoy fsj: RE: [FSJparts] NP229, NP228, QTs, T400s for sale... fsj: RE: [FSJparts] NP229, NP228, QTs, T400s for sale... fsj: the FSJ charter, for the Ouray record... Re: fsj: cherokee grille for sale Re: fsj: the FSJ charter, for the Ouray record... fsj: 63 wagoneer - crossover steering update Re: fsj: the FSJ charter, for the Ouray record... fsj: Re: the FSJ charter, for the Ouray record... fsj: Electrical Re: [fsj: Electrical] fsj: Re: the FSJ charter, for the Ouray record... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 20:58:21 -0400 From: "Ernest Brown" Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1705 (Ernie's in the Islands) I will be out of the office and completely unavailable from the evening of Friday July 26 through Sunday August 4. If you need assistance with the Watershed Conference or the NPS Mini Grant Program, please contact Fran Geissler at 804 786-9732 or Jackie Miller at 804 786-0237. Matters related to Southern Rivers or Coastal Watershed Issues, please contact the appropriate DCR Watershed Manager for your watershed. Thanks Ernie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 19:44:14 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Re: [FSJ-L-VW] (unknown) nope! I asked my son to post it to the Jeep lists for me and he included them all! (I was at work with no internet access, but I'm home now!) - ----- Original Message ----- From: Landen Schooler Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 4:45 PM To: FSJ-L-VW-at-yahoogroups.com Cc: me Subject: Re: [FSJ-L-VW] (unknown) And this is virus warning?? Landen Schooler Palmyra, Iowa > Water pump needed. 66 Wagoneer. Overhead Cam 6. 425.747.3856. Jim (work) > > http://www.virtualjeep.com/ Black Jack's before pic http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/jim-b-J10.jpg > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > Click here to find your contact lenses! > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > FSJ-L-VW-unsubscribe-at-yahoogroups.com - ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NsdPZD/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/unTolB/TM - ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: FSJ-L-VW-unsubscribe-at-yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 19:51:41 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [FSJparts] Re: Re: Ouray Invasion Convoy At 07:46 PM 7/28/2002 -0700, Jim B wrote: >A: It'll matter to me! and surely to others who feel the overwhelming urge to meet you... ;) If you can't make it I'll vouch for the last vestiges of sanity that you cling tenaciously too... ;) If you do go, I'm thinking it might be a good idea if I leave after you to pick up any pieces you might lose... but I think we'll be leaving early... I think... I haven't had time to think or map out the adventure... it's closing in quickly too... I'm working on training material and been consulting on the side too... way too busy... looking forward to this break. Only downside is SuperDawg and Curtis/Rocky won't be making it... Neither does it appear that a couple of the originators of this event: Mark Wallace & Mike Lacher. The thought of not going has crossed my mind a few times too... but I'm scheduled to take a class in SLC so I'm on the hook... course has already been paid for. :) john > From: john >Subject: Re: Re: Ouray Invasion Convoy > >Hope things get better for you Jim... Not a big deal if you >can't make it... Curtis can't get the time off either. :( > >john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:41:37 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: RE: [FSJparts] NP229, NP228, QTs, T400s for sale... I'll pass this to the other fsj lists to see if anyone is willing to bring 'em to Ouray... I'm only interested in the NP228 at this point, already buying an NP219 and picking it up at Ouray... driving a '99 WJ, aye, not sure how many transfer cases she'll hold captian... ;) john At 12:32 PM 7/29/2002 -0400, Kievit Matthew wrote: >Can't make it to Ouray.... BUT. If somebody is coming through Detroit, or >along 80-90 through Ohio, it could be picked up.... ANY of it!!! > >Or, if you (or somebody) buys it all, I'll DRIVE IT OUT! LOL > >Matt > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] > > > > are you coming to Ouray? > > > > If so I'd be interested in the NP228... otherwise > > too much expense to ship... :( > > > > john > > > > At 08:01 AM 7/29/2002 -0400, Kievit Matthew wrote: > > >Would still like to move these things.... > > > > > >(1) NP229 - good condition, $200 > > >(1) NP228 - $175 > > >(8) QTs - $70 w/low range, $50 w/o low > > >(3) T400 AMC trans for QT cases, $50/ea. > > > > > >All located in Michigan. Will make a smokin' package deal > > for somebody. > > >Over the weekend, I had to "abandon" (2) more T400s, and (3) QT cases > > >because I have no more room to store them! > > > > > >Willing to ship these, or you pickup in Detroit. Will be in > > Indianappolis > > >in the coming week, along with the Chicago area. I'll be in > > South Carolina > > >in a month and can drop off there (my brother's place)... > > > > > >Matt > >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> >Free $5 Love Reading >Risk Free! >http://us.click.yahoo.com/NsdPZD/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/unTolB/TM >---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >FSJparts-unsubscribe-at-yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:07:25 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: RE: [FSJparts] NP229, NP228, QTs, T400s for sale... At 12:53 PM 7/29/2002 -0400, Kievit Matthew wrote: >'99 WJ, eh? I have one of those, too, and I know she hold 3 D44s, an AX15, >NP231, some misc stuff, a baby, my wife, and myself. With room to spare. >:) >Matt cool. that's encouraging... so if the NP228 makes it Ouray, I'll have an NP219, luggage and that... of course who knows what else we might find along the way... :) IF it weren't for the hit on fuel economy I'd bring along my J10 trailer bed to haul stuff there and back... :) I still have to figure out how to attach an early '80's Cherokee grile to the front of my WJ to make it a pseudo-FSJ so I can sneak into all the FSJ events... very curious about how this thing will index on the ramp... :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:42:13 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: the FSJ charter, for the Ouray record... At 01:11 PM 7/29/2002 -0400, Kievit Matthew wrote: >Technically, it's ('99 WJ) still full-sized. >Liberty, Wrangler, and Cherokee are all >down-size. Therefore, your WJ is a FULLSIZE Jeep. :) >Matt (wouldn't test that theory -at- Ouray, though!) According to the definition, it's NOT a Full Size Jeep, the WJ is only 105.9 inches in wheelbase, minimum requirement is 108". :) (hence my desire to create a pseudo-FSJ by duct taping an early '80's Cherokee grille to the front... ;) Those of us that formed the FSJ list defined what an FSJ is as such: http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-charter.html THE FSJ CHARTER: - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- FSJ information - -------------------------- This list is for the discussion of Full-size Jeeps (FSJ) An "FSJ" is any vehicle produced in North America, carrying the "Jeep" nameplate, with 2 or 4drs, in 2 or 4wd, whose wheelbase does not exceed 132", nor is less than 108", and whose tread width is no more than 63" nor less than 57". - -------------------------- This definition is known to include the following models: Wagoneer: 1963-1983 Gladiator and J-series pickup: 1963-1987 Cherokee: 1974-1983 Grand Wagoneer: 1984-1991 - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ALL FULL-SIZE JEEPS HAVE A JEEP MODEL DESIGNATOR OF: SJ http://www.wagoneers.com/JEEPS/jeepcode.html (jeep production codes) Jeep Dimensions rig - WB - length - Width ===================== J10 118.8 194.0 78.9 (SJ - shortwheelbase pickup) WJ 105.9 181.5 72.3 (1999 and up) SJ 108.7 186.5 75.6 XJ 101.4 165.3 70.5 ZJ 105.9 177.2 70.9 (1992-1998) TJ 93.4 152.8 68.2 YJ 93.4 152 66 CJ7 93.5 147.9 65.3 And for the record, the charter members were: The folks that started this thing all off were referred to as the Charter Members, here is the list of those folks in order by year of their vehicles...: - --------------------------------- VEHICLE, NAME, STATE, E-MAIL (sorted by Vehicle age...) - --------------------------------- 67 Super Wagoneer, Ken Wetherall, California (met in 1998) 68 Wagoneer, David Klingenberg, Idaho (met in 1997) 74 Wagoneer, Rolf Aalto, Washington 75 J-10, Hunter Hasbrouck, Alaska 76 Wagoneer, Ron Strouss, Washington (met in 1997) 77 Chief, Russ Campbell, Oregon 79 Cherokee, Michael Baxter, Nevada (met in 1999) 79 Cherokee, Ed Pedersen, Vancouver, B.C. (met in 1997) 79 J-10, Rich Holley, Nebraska 79 Wagoneer, Mike Lacher, N. Dakota (posted "wagoneer owners unite") 81 Wagoneer Ltd, John Meister, Washington (worked with Mike Lacher to start FSJ list) 82 Wagoneer, Steve Nordby, Mass. 84 Wagoneer, Allen Lundgren, Texas - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================== For Full Size Jeep help see: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech - technical information http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs - pictures of FSJ's http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-list.html - FSJ list on digest.net http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/digests - list digests more info at: http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-info.html ========================================================================== Snohomish, Washington, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... remember, leaving life with out Jesus isn't recommended... ========================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:53:47 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: cherokee grille for sale At 12:51 PM 7/29/2002 -0500, Dan Black wrote: >john said: >{- I still have to figure out how to attach an early '80's Cherokee grile >{- to the front of my WJ to make it a pseudo-FSJ so I can sneak into all >{- the FSJ events... very curious about how this thing will index on >{- the ramp... :) > >Not sure how the WJ grille is attached or how hard it is to remove, but >if it isn't too bad, you might be able to rig an adapter out of small >blocks of wood or pieces of sheet metal or something -- just to screw >the big grille on one side and mount to the WJ on the other side. Of >course, for the long trip down there, you might want to keep the >original grille on it; dunno how wind buffeting might damage things. it's not so much a "grille" as an extension of plastic bumper shroud... and I use the term "bumper" lightly... hitting something with this thing might produce undesirable effects. I haven't looked under the plastic to see if there is metal or not. :) I think I'll use plumbers tape to fabricate some "brackets" to hold the grille in front... will only put it on down in Ouray as the looks it will draw will be somewhat undesirable... ;) Anyone interested in a slightly used/abused early '80's Cherokee grille? One of the uprights is broken... the piece is possibly in Montana... ;) let me know, it'll save me the trouble of carrying it home. :) I also have two Kaiser era grilles for sale, one with headlight buckets... this is NOT the rhino chaser version, it's the full Wagoneer from '67 and up type... john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:01:44 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: the FSJ charter, for the Ouray record... At 12:54 PM 7/29/2002 -0500, Dan Black wrote: >john said: >{- An "FSJ" is any vehicle produced in North America, carrying the "Jeep" >{- nameplate, with 2 or 4drs, in 2 or 4wd, whose wheelbase does not exceed >{- 132", nor is less than 108", and whose tread width is no more than 63" >{- nor less than 57". http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-charter.html >Does not exceed 132"? What about the monster that guy put together from >2/3 of a Cherokee and 2/3 of a Wagoneer, for the full four doors plus >the full Cherokee back? I don't know what the wheelbase was, but it >could very well have exceeded that... Or is that just when they began >their lives at the factory? I'm not sure if 132" was exceeded or not, but us remaining charter members would surely grant an official exemption... ;) One of the guys back east bought it... can't remember his name, Zach??? Brad??? I think he's in ohio, right???? Would be cool if it made it to Ouray... john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:08:37 -0700 From: "Faith Jeff" Subject: fsj: 63 wagoneer - crossover steering update hi all, a couple weeks ago i got a steering arm attached to the passenger-side steering knuckle. i put new u-joints in both front axle shafts, rebuilt the hubs, reassembled the brakes with new pads... this last weekend i finally got my hands on a power-steering-gear box for my 63 wagoneer...donor was a 77 wagoneer. maybe next weekend i can figure out how to install it. more to come, jeff This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, contains information from Prescription Solutions which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:27:26 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: the FSJ charter, for the Ouray record... At 01:17 PM 7/29/2002 -0500, Dan Black wrote: >john said: >{- I'm not sure if 132" was exceeded or not, but us remaining charter >{- members would surely grant an official exemption... ;) > >Heh, as long as there's some flexibility. :) > >{- One of the guys back east bought it... can't remember his name, >{- Zach??? Brad??? I think he's in ohio, right???? Would be cool if it >{- made it to Ouray... > >I hadn't heard. So somebody on the list? one of the guys that stayed on the original list after I left orc. >That'd be great. And yes, >it'd be very cool if it made it to Ouray, but I remember it didn't have >4wd and would have a lot of trouble with the tight turns I've heard >described. Still, even if it didn't go on the trails, it'd be awesome >to see it. > >Heh, after I get the fuel injection in the '74, and hopefully after some >more mods, I'm gonna have to take that to Camp Jeep and stuff. It'll >scare the livin' daylights outta some of the preppy people who buy the >Wranglers and never take them off-road. (Though when I went to Camp >Jeep, the second or third year they had it, most of the people seemed >pretty cool.) It's old-yellow-and-rust right now, and when I get done >with the exterior (waaay down the road) it'll be rust-free but black and >probably have a lift, bigger tires, and Scottie's grille guard and >bumper by then. It already has the 401, no cat (legal), and we're >guessing 4.11 gears. Low and growly; I love it... Put a ported fuel >injection system on a dual-quad Offenhauser aluminum intake on that >freshly rebuilt 401, and you're really getting into the definition of a >beast. :) (I think its nicknames will eventually be "The Beast" and >"The Monster". Sounds more interesting than just "the '74". :) ) >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think the "'74" has a nice ring to it... :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:43:41 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: the FSJ charter, for the Ouray record... will do... :) hopefully it'll be a bit more assembled then this... ;) john At 06:43 PM 7/29/2002 +0000, txh3202-at-att.net wrote: >Keep an eye out for this one John... > >http://4x4wire.com/cgi-bin/gallery/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=technical_shots/susp/75j10lift&image=dcp_0042.jpg&img=&tt= > >Hope to meet you in 2.5 weeks! > >-- >Terry L. Howe >http://www.jeeptech.com/ >http://www.jeepwire.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:08:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Alexander Wall Subject: fsj: Electrical Well, I finally brought Lucky back to life! After eliminating the ammeter (and it's short) from the circuit, it was simply a matter of putting everything back together. When the short occurred, it pretty well cooked the plug that goes into the side of the alternator, so I replaced that. When I drove around yesterday, the battery was not charging (I had to get a jump-start to get home from my buddy's house). I haven't had the alternator tested yet, but I fear that I may not have put the wiring back togather correctly. Can anyone give me a little direction for an '84 Waggy alternator wiring? Right now, I have the main 10ga red wire from the alternator going up to the firewall as it always has. The 10ga yellow wire coming from the firewall (from the downside of the ammeter connection) is spliced with the 14ga red wire from the plug on the alternator, and those two are fusible-linked to the battery side of the solenoid. The other wire from that plug is spliced to the black wire from the wiring harness (thick insulation, single thin silver-colored strand) which joins the red-white lead from the solenoid, and meets the red-green wire in the harness. Does the alternator charge the battery through the fusible link? Does the red wire to the plug act for switching charging on and off? I have had trouble reconciling this with my wiring diagram, due to my ignorance regarding terminology on a wiring diagram. TIA, Alex ===== Alexander Wall Spokane, WA ================================================================================= "Where there's a will, there's a way." - Eliza Cook "Where there's a way, there's a construction crew disrupting traffic!" - Alex Wall ================================================================================= Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:48:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Alexander Wall Subject: Re: [fsj: Electrical] > IIWY, I'd remove the > alternator output wire from the alternator and snip the yellow wire off and > run two 10ga wires from the alt output post to the positive solenoid post > (where all the circuits are hooked up) bypassing the ammeter entirely. When I tried to run the output from the alternator directly to the battery side of the solenoid, I had no power to anything. I figure that the entire system gets power from somewhere in the firewall plug, or the fusebox. That's the only way I can explain the lack of any power without the alternator output going to the firewall. There were never any other wires on the solenoid post, other than the fusible link. > AFAIK, your yellow wire from the 'other' side of the ammeter should tie ONLY > into the positive solenoid post where all the circuits are attached. It > sounds like you tied it into the plug that excites the alternator field??? The only reason I did this was to duplicate the original wiring. Is that what the red plug wire does - excite the alternator field? I thought it seemed very odd to splice to wires to the fusible link, but that's how it was when I took it apart. Thanks for the suggestions!! Alex ===== Alexander Wall Spokane, WA ================================================================================= "Where there's a will, there's a way." - Eliza Cook "Where there's a way, there's a construction crew disrupting traffic!" - Alex Wall ================================================================================= Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:03:19 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: the FSJ charter, for the Ouray record... well, if you do go with the gas cans, recommend bringing a few more... ;) or using a larger one... ;) john At 07:39 PM 7/29/2002 +0000, txh3202-at-att.net wrote: >I sure hope I'm not using that gas can ratchet >strapped to the frame as a gas tank. The truck >is coming together. It should be on the road by >the end of this week. > >-- >Terry L. Howe >http://www.jeeptech.com/ >http://www.jeepwire.com/ > > will do... :) > > > > hopefully it'll be a bit more assembled then this... ;) > > > > john > > > > At 06:43 PM 7/29/2002 +0000, txh3202-at-att.net wrote: > > > > > > >Keep an eye out for this one John... > > > > > >http://4x4wire.com/cgi-bin/gallery/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=tech > nical_sh > > ots/susp/75j10lift&image=dcp_0042.jpg&img=&tt= > > > > > >Hope to meet you in 2.5 weeks! > > > > > >-- > > >Terry L. Howe > > >http://www.jeeptech.com/ > > >http://www.jeepwire.com/ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1706 **************************