From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sat Aug 3 21:59:11 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Sunday, August 4 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1712 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1711 (Ernie's in the Islands) Re: fsj: News about nothing Re: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1709 (Ernie's in the Islands) Re: fsj: D20 needed for '77 Chero fsj: Trac-loc info needed ASAP Re: fsj: Re: Hot Rez Re: fsj: Re: Hot Rez Re: fsj: Re: Hot Rez Re: fsj: D20 needed for '77 Chero fsj: Re: SLC parts! fsj: RE: 360 in a cherokee FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 21:41:41 -0400 From: "Ernest Brown" Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1711 (Ernie's in the Islands) I will be out of the office and completely unavailable from the evening of Friday July 26 through Sunday August 4. If you need assistance with the Watershed Conference or the NPS Mini Grant Program, please contact Fran Geissler at 804 786-9732 or Jackie Miller at 804 786-0237. Matters related to Southern Rivers or Coastal Watershed Issues, please contact the appropriate DCR Watershed Manager for your watershed. Thanks Ernie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 21:47:40 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Re: fsj: News about nothing why are you not going? it better be a good excuse mister! R.J. JeepNut wrote: > Hi all, > Just feeling left out since I don't get to go to Ouray... > I just got the A/C rebuild in my Wag. I now have A/C for > the first time in 4 years!!! > Hot Dog!, well... more like cool kitty I guess... ;) > > It cost me $1200.00 to have the A/C rebuilt. New receiver, > dryer, clutch and compressor, etc. but buddy, she blows ice > cubes now, R12 too, not that crappy R134. $58.00 a pint > and I could care less... > > I had to turn on the windsheild wipers driving home from > Mississippi the other night because it was so hot and steamy > out (and my A/C is so cold now) that the windsheild AND both > front windows were fogging up on the OUTSIDE. That A/C was > worth every penny... ;) For those that aren't familiar with > the Memphis weather, the heat index today was 107. You can > imagine what it has been like getting into that Wagoneer at > noon for the lunch run and at 5:00 for the 50 minute run > home every afternoon for the last 4 years with no A/C. > > And I think I have a name for this one finally. Never been > big on actually naming my vehicles, but I'm thinking of > officially dubbing this 88 as Under Construction. > Or has this been taken? Comments? > > For what it's worth, I did pull 3 small downed trees up > roots and all today with the Wagoneer. Spun tires on the > grass in 4x4hi so I put it in lo, goosed it a little, and > pulled 'em right out. So even tho I don't get to trail ride > and probably will never get to do anything cool like Ouray, > at least it isn't just an overgrown station wagon. It works > for it's keep... ;) > > So that is 2 major fixes this year (rebuilt xfer case and > A/C) and likely the last majors this year. > Keep cool everyone... > JeepNut > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > '87 Street Comanche #24/100 > '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only > one... > '92 Cherokee > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 19:00:30 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1709 (Ernie's in the Islands) Oh good! Only 1 more day of this message! Shall we ask him how his getaway was? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 19:04:19 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: D20 needed for '77 Chero A: Well all it takes is $200 to get the one my son has dropped off (better hurry because the guys at the Lynnwood www.4wheelparts.com may beat you to it! My front axle is in there getting assembled and the manager is converting his baby Jeep to 360.) From: john Subject: fsj: D20 needed for '77 Chero we just got the twin stick setup and found out the D20 binds up and drags the hind legs in low range... regardless of 2wd or 4wd low... :( need a D20 up in the PNW... no I'm not going to bring one home from Ouray... to heavy. :) john ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 19:08:57 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Trac-loc info needed ASAP A: My read diff (Dana 44 4.10 gears) has a trash lock. The spider gears are toast (took a chip off the outside edge of the ring gear too!) and I need to know what I can replace it with w/o messing around with gear re-setting (Will the spider gears from a non-posi 3.31 carrier fit? Will a 3.31 carrier fit? complete?) This is going to make or break this trip in an FSJ for me so I need to know ASAP! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 22:39:09 -0500 From: "Vince Orr" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Hot Rez Well, tranny and transfer case will be out of the vehicle by tomorrow. With luck, it will be going back in tomorrow too. New 4 core radiator should show up this week. Engine may get broke in on the drive to Ouray. Perhaps I can change oil at my brother's place in Iowa but I will definitely change oil and filter before I leave. If I can still make the trip, will be leaving on the 13th, stopover in western Iowa, continue on to Ouray on the 14th. Leaving Ouray on the 18th. Still a slim chance I can make it. Nothing is ever as easy as it seems...... - --Vince '81 Wag - ----- Original Message ----- From: "R.J. Baynum" To: "JeepNut" Cc: "Vince Orr" ; "_FSJ List" Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 9:46 PM Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Hot Rez > Dude.. > just break down and take it to a mechanic, they have special tools and such > and can get to it much faster then you can! > Never seen a pro mechanic have a truck for too long , no matter what it is.. > At least see what they say.. > > R.J. > > JeepNut wrote: > > > Gee that kind of sounds like something that would happen to > > me... > > I don't see you getting a lot of help on this, but it seems > > odd to me that you have to run a 160 to get the thing to run > > in the normal range while the OEM 190 makes it run hot. > > I was running a 160 and mine would JUST clear the blue band > > on the temp gauge most of the time. Even in a Memphis > > summer it would not move over maybe 2 needle widths off the > > blue band. I switched to a 190 after reading R.J.'s post a > > while ago about the operating temp, oil flow, etc. It > > seemed to make good sense.... > > > > I don't know ANYTHING useful to offer except that this > > doesn't sound normal. > > We've all heard of doctors leaving tools in a patient.... > > could a rebuilder make a mistake? You bet. Wrong head > > gasket blocking holes maybe? > > > > I suspect you already talked to your rebuild shop, eh? What > > did they say? > > It just isn't right and I think you'd be living on the edge > > of the blade making a long trip with her so soon after > > rebuild with this weirdness going on. > > (easy for me to say, I can't go to Ouray anyway)... > > I'm watching this saga with great interest. > > JeepNut > > > > Vince Orr wrote: > > > > > > RJ wrote: > > > > Vince! don't put in the 160! I don't think the 360 is made to run with > > > that cool > > > > of a thermostat.... > > > A: > > > Too late, already in. Took Rez for a run just to scope things out. It's > > > about 92 degrees outside here so I figured it was going to be a good test. > > > > > > Well, guess what? Engine runs great, temp gauge in the middle of normal > > > range with the cooler (160) thermostat. However, I was doing about 70mph on > > > I55 and noticed I was leaving a cloud of smoke behind me. Limped home with > > > an extremely hot transmission. Apparently I dinged the rearmost fitting on > > > the tranny's cooling line when putting in the engine. It cracked. When I > > > removed the access cover to look, it was very apparent. So I tried to tease > > > it out but of course it broke off in the tranny. I've spent almost the > > > entire day with easyouts trying to get the little stub out of the tranny. > > > Not much room to work. Now my easyout is in the hunk of brass fitting and > > > spinning, not gripping anymore. I tried to back it out, it's not moving in > > > or out, just sits and spins, no luck. > > > > > > As I sit here contemplating what to do, I realize that the only way I'm > > > probably going to get this little sucker out is to drop the tranny and > > > transfer case. ANOTHER huge project! Guys, as I sit here covered in oil, > > > sweat, and dirt, I'm thinking the good Lord didn't intend for me to go to > > > Ouray this year. It's been one snag after another and at this point it's > > > going to take an act of congress to get me there. So my choices > > > remain........come in the TJ or don't come at all........and somehow, taking > > > the TJ just doesn't seem to make any sense to me. At this point, I'm so > > > darn tired and disappointed, I don't know what I'm going to do next. I > > > can't believe a 20 cent fitting is keeping me from a trip I've been planning > > > for the last 2 years! > > > --Vince > > > '81 Wag > > > '99 TJ > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "R.J. Baynum" > > > To: "Vince Orr" > > > Cc: ; "FSJ List" > > > Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 11:51 PM > > > Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Hot Rez > > > > > > > Vince! don't put in the 160! I don't think the 360 is made to run with > > > that cool > > > > of a thermostat.... > > > > I believe, it's more like 190-192 degrees, it's made to run warmer... > > > > Your likely to ruin the engine and pistons if you do, because the rings > > > will > > > > heat up enough to expand, thus,... getting blow by, and micro fracturing > > > the > > > > block pistons, or pre detention on the pistons from the cool running > > > temps . > > > > > > > > R.J. > > > > > > > > > Nope, using a new stock temp sensor in the same position as the stock > > > one. > > > > > Only difference is the Edelbrock intake. > > > > > > > > > > My current plan is to install the 160 degree thermostat I bought today. > > > I > > > > > also have a new 4 core radiator on the way. If that doesn't make it > > > cool, > > > > > nothing will. I'll probably have to change to a hotter thermostat > > > before > > > > > winter but I definitely don't want my new engine overheating in > > > Colorado. > > > > > > > > > > Putting on a cool Killer 32 rear bumper tomorrow. Looking for a whip > > > > > antenna and mount for the CB. Need tow hooks for the bumper. Also need > > > to > > > > > tweak the kick down on the linkage to the carb, it is too tight and > > > keeps > > > > > the Rez in low gears too long. Not shifting smooth because of that. > > > > > --Vince > > > > > '81 Wagoneer, 360, 727, np219, D44 front, AMC 20 rear > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Joe Hughes" > > > > > To: "'Vince Orr'" > > > > > Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 12:38 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: Hot Rez > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe your seeing the opposite of what I'm seeing. My new new motor > > > > > > overheated barely in the warm. I just installed two 12" electric fans > > > > > > from a MR2 and a new radiator from 1-800-radiator that I got for $134 > > > > > > (yes, I said $134, and yes it is a 3-core Modine). It always ran > > > > > > halfway between Cold and the begininning of the warm area when I ran > > > the > > > > > > old fan without a clutch. I adjusted the fans to kick on just above > > > > > > warm and it ended up overheating and I had the right mix of water and > > > > > > coolant and a brand new radiator. > > > > > > > > > > > > This new motor has a Edelbrock intake and carb, but the temp sensor > > > must > > > > > > not work correctly with my guage. A resisitor or a potentiometer will > > > > > > take care of that problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm assuming you aren't using the original temp sensor. If not use > > > your > > > > > > old one that should take care of that problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Vince Orr > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 6:17 PM > > > > > > > To: FSJ List > > > > > > > Subject: fsj: Hot Rez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, started the new engine yesterday.......sooooo > > > > > > > smmmoooottthhhhhh. Very nice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One problem. Engine overheats. Needle just steadily creeps > > > > > > > up to "H". Then I get scared and shut it off. Is there > > > > > > > anything I could have hooked up wrong to cause this? I can > > > > > > > pretty much rule out the thermostat. When filling the > > > > > > > radiator, it was very apparent when the thermostat opened, it > > > > > > > sucked all the coolant in from the top radiator tank. What > > > > > > > was a two-barrel carb is now an Edelbrock (weber) four barrel > > > > > > > (1400). Runs and idles great. Radiator is a three core. > > > > > > > Cooled the old engine really well. Do new engines run hot or > > > > > > > is it the parts I'm running? The water temp sensor is in the > > > > > > > intake manifold I think. Since the new manifold is > > > > > > > alumnimumumum...(wait while I stop my lips from > > > > > > > vibrating)..could that cause a false reading? Could I be > > > > > > > nervous over nothing? --Vince '81 Wagoneer, 360, > > > > -- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > '87 Street Comanche #24/100 > > '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only > > one... > > '92 Cherokee > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 22:42:40 -0500 From: "Vince Orr" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Hot Rez I'd have done this if I could get to it.........no room for a drill or anything. I wish it was as easy as a valve cover stud..... I'm going to be much more careful with prybars from now on! - --Vince - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Charles Gedraitis" To: "Vince Orr" Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 7:39 PM Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Hot Rez > If you wanted to do it the, um, unprofessional way (like me), drill it > out, retap the hole, and find the right size fitting or an adapter for the > one you do have, and drain the fluid to get out an particles. I did that > late one night when I NEEDED my car for a valve cover stud. Good luck if > you decide to go that route... > > ~dave ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 23:04:24 -0500 From: "Vince Orr" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Hot Rez I've got a good fan shroud. Also, the fan clutch is almost new and in great shape. Fan pulls lots of air. I'm thinking that I may be overheating due to the transmission leaking instead of running the fluid through the cooler faster. What was going through the heavy duty transmission cooler was superheated and may have contributed to the overheat condition. I've seen older GM cars overheat when the fluid level was low. - --Vince '81 Wag - ----- Original Message ----- From: "R.J. Baynum" To: "Vince Orr" Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 12:03 AM Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Hot Rez > oh and the 4 core, and a good fan shroud should help a lot too! > about the middle of the normal temp gauge is about right too... > > R.J. > > Vince Orr wrote: > > > I think when the new 4 core radiator comes in, I'll switch back to a 195 > > degree. > > --Vince > > '81 Wagoneer > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "R.J. Baynum" > > To: "Vince Orr" > > Cc: ; "FSJ List" > > Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 11:51 PM > > Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Hot Rez > > > > > Vince! don't put in the 160! I don't think the 360 is made to run with > > that cool > > > of a thermostat.... > > > I believe, it's more like 190-192 degrees, it's made to run warmer... > > > Your likely to ruin the engine and pistons if you do, because the rings > > will > > > heat up enough to expand, thus,... getting blow by, and micro fracturing > > the > > > block pistons, or pre detention on the pistons from the cool running > > temps . > > > > > > R.J. > > > > > > > Nope, using a new stock temp sensor in the same position as the stock > > one. > > > > Only difference is the Edelbrock intake. > > > > > > > > My current plan is to install the 160 degree thermostat I bought today. > > I > > > > also have a new 4 core radiator on the way. If that doesn't make it > > cool, > > > > nothing will. I'll probably have to change to a hotter thermostat > > before > > > > winter but I definitely don't want my new engine overheating in > > Colorado. > > > > > > > > Putting on a cool Killer 32 rear bumper tomorrow. Looking for a whip > > > > antenna and mount for the CB. Need tow hooks for the bumper. Also need > > to > > > > tweak the kick down on the linkage to the carb, it is too tight and > > keeps > > > > the Rez in low gears too long. Not shifting smooth because of that. > > > > --Vince > > > > '81 Wagoneer, 360, 727, np219, D44 front, AMC 20 rear > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Joe Hughes" > > > > To: "'Vince Orr'" > > > > Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 12:38 AM > > > > Subject: RE: Hot Rez > > > > > > > > > Maybe your seeing the opposite of what I'm seeing. My new new motor > > > > > overheated barely in the warm. I just installed two 12" electric fans > > > > > from a MR2 and a new radiator from 1-800-radiator that I got for $134 > > > > > (yes, I said $134, and yes it is a 3-core Modine). It always ran > > > > > halfway between Cold and the begininning of the warm area when I ran > > the > > > > > old fan without a clutch. I adjusted the fans to kick on just above > > > > > warm and it ended up overheating and I had the right mix of water and > > > > > coolant and a brand new radiator. > > > > > > > > > > This new motor has a Edelbrock intake and carb, but the temp sensor > > must > > > > > not work correctly with my guage. A resisitor or a potentiometer will > > > > > take care of that problem. > > > > > > > > > > I'm assuming you aren't using the original temp sensor. If not use > > your > > > > > old one that should take care of that problem. > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Vince Orr > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 6:17 PM > > > > > > To: FSJ List > > > > > > Subject: fsj: Hot Rez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, started the new engine yesterday.......sooooo > > > > > > smmmoooottthhhhhh. Very nice. > > > > > > > > > > > > One problem. Engine overheats. Needle just steadily creeps > > > > > > up to "H". Then I get scared and shut it off. Is there > > > > > > anything I could have hooked up wrong to cause this? I can > > > > > > pretty much rule out the thermostat. When filling the > > > > > > radiator, it was very apparent when the thermostat opened, it > > > > > > sucked all the coolant in from the top radiator tank. What > > > > > > was a two-barrel carb is now an Edelbrock (weber) four barrel > > > > > > (1400). Runs and idles great. Radiator is a three core. > > > > > > Cooled the old engine really well. Do new engines run hot or > > > > > > is it the parts I'm running? The water temp sensor is in the > > > > > > intake manifold I think. Since the new manifold is > > > > > > alumnimumumum...(wait while I stop my lips from > > > > > > vibrating)..could that cause a false reading? Could I be > > > > > > nervous over nothing? --Vince '81 Wagoneer, 360, ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 21:18:40 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: D20 needed for '77 Chero is it in good functioning condition? john At 07:04 PM 8/3/2002 -0700, Jim B wrote: >A: Well all it takes is $200 to get the one my son has dropped off (better >hurry because the guys at the Lynnwood >www.4wheelparts.com may beat you to it! My >front axle is in there getting assembled and the manager is converting his >baby Jeep to 360.) > >From: john ><john-at-wagoneers.com> >Subject: fsj: D20 needed for '77 Chero > >we just got the twin stick setup and found out >the D20 binds up and drags the hind legs in low >range... regardless of 2wd or 4wd low... :( > >need a D20 up in the PNW... no I'm not going to >bring one home from Ouray... to heavy. :) > >john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 21:56:25 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: SLC parts! Scott, I'll be in SLC for three days after Ouray... my son's D20 just went south... Can you hold on to these things until I get there after Ouray? This might be too much to haul in the back of the WJ, not sure... SLC is still a two day drive to Seattle and I'll already have a NP219 in the back... maybe I should bring a trailer... sheesh... I think my son would like to have a TH400 and QT, he was just talking about that since he's dual locked in his '77 Cherokee... email me your phone off list... john At 01:41 AM 8/4/2002 +0000, fsj-digest wrote: >Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 20:28:38 -0500 >From: "Phillips, Scott" >Subject: fsj: TH400 and QT > >I've got a TH400 and QuadraTrac that I saved out of a rotted out '76 Wag. I >was originally planning on keeping them as spares for my '76 but decided >that I won't be needing them. They're in an "unknown" condition; meaning >that I know that they worked when the rig was running but I don't know what >kind of *true* shape they are in. I was planning on rebuilding the TH400 >but plans have changed and I nolonger have the room to store them. I would >like them to be used rather than junked. I'll let them go for the price of >shipping. They are located in SLC, Utah. If nobody wants them, they'll end >up at the junkyard by the end of the month. - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 22:03:55 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: RE: 360 in a cherokee here it is... transplant from a J20 to an XJ... :) http://www.wagoneers.com/XJ/rigs/360-XJ/ At 07:08 AM 8/1/2002 -0700, you wrote: >sorry the reply is late john, but yes, I'd be elated to see it up on your >server. I'm always surfing around wag.com to see what's new, and the >links I've always missed. Thanks a lot for putting it up! >~mike > >-----Original Message----- >From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] >Sent: Fri 7/26/2002 1:58 PM >To: Mike Cummings >Cc: >Subject: Re: 360 in a cherokee >very cool, if it's ok with you I'd like to put this up >on my server... let me know. > >john > >At 07:22 AM 7/26/2002 -0700, you wrote: > > > >John, > > > >I've very successfully swapped in the entire driveline from a J-20 into = > >a Cherokee, with minor mods to the frame. (I only had to fab up motor = > >mounts and take 1/4" off of each exhaust manifold to make the beast = > >fit.) For cooling, I simply installed twin 12" cooling fans on a stock = > >3 row standard transmission radiator from a '92 XJ (my truck is an '88) = > >The x-fer case is a 205 from a ford F-250, but everything else is Jeep, = > >including the wrangler front springs (+2.5" lift from RE) It's a real = > >power-house, but really lacks pick-up. The T-18 isn't a real = > >gear-jammer, but if I had a little extra weight, I could tow a = > > > > > >WARNING: The remainder of this message has not been transferred. > >The estimated size of this message is 321021 bytes. > >Click on the Retrieve From Server icon above and check mail again to get > >the whole thing. (If you're reading this in the preview pane, you'll need > >to open the message to see the icon.) If the Retrieve From Server icon is > >not showing, then this message is no longer on the server. > >------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1712 **************************