From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Oct 3 10:57:02 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, October 3 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1760 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: RE: Re: why Re: fsj: gears Re: fsj: Rez Report fsj: What is this Jeep? fsj: custom transmission linkage (was "Rez Report") Re: fsj: Re: deep puddles... fsj: Re: the M3S project fsj: Re: 3.54's fsj: RE: What is this Jeep? fsj: Re: What is this Jeep? fsj: Re: custom transmission linkage (was "Rez Report") fsj: T-18s FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 00:46:38 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: RE: Re: why A: But, you're comparing a car motor to a truck motor! Drop a stock AMX motor in a Jeep and see what you get out of it! They are cammed quite different and have different compression ratios as well. From: john Subject: fsj: RE: Re: why At 11:29 AM 10/1/2002 -0700, Faith Jeff wrote: >i see what you're saying...i like the idea! >i'd maybe take a caddi 500 over a 455 for that project. >...oh and a neon sign that reads 'eat jeep dust' that lights up in the back >window. >or maybe 'this old jeep beat your new bmw'. or like I had on the back of my '81 chevy luv that had the built buick 3.8L v6 in... "I may be slow, but I'm ahead of you". :) nothing got ahead of that rig... I took it apart before I got in trouble with it. :) The motor went into my '67 Wagoneer... moved it along faster then Old Blue! Old Blue did 0 to 60 in 15 seconds, the '67 with the V6 did it in about 12. :) The AMC v8's just don't excite me... in order to get them to really put out the ponies you have to do a lot to them... john ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 00:54:04 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: gears A: Each shop is different. Cost me $200 to get mine professionally set up in the front (I supplied the gears and you need a bearing and shim kit to do it) If anyone needs it, I have a 3.54 for Model 20 (it's complete in a CJ5 axle housing) $100, and I have an '84 J10 Model 20 with 3.31 in what looks like an ARB carrier (there is a hole in the carrier with some kind of locking mechanism that's partially removed) and the 3.31 D44 gears from my front axle for sale. $200 obo (I can send good pics now. Much better than Webtv days! ) From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: gears http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1863120642 Woo hoo! Gettin' some 3.54s for the '88. Will be much better than the 2.72s, eh? So I have a couple questions. I know they've been discussed before, but there's usually a lot of debate back and forth about them. So I'm looking for a couple straight, solid answers. 1. Mine is an '88 GWag, stock axles. They're both D44s, aren't they? 2. Anybody know how much a typical mechanic (in the midwest) would charge to install the gears in both axles, including labor, fluids, and any miscellanous parts needed? 3. Anybody know specifically what speedometer gear to get, where to get it, etc.? 4. Anything else I haven't thought of to do the switch? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 01:03:34 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: Rez Report A: For the cruise, get the air cleaner spacer on the performance rack at any CSK store (yeah, I know it's plastic!) The passing gear has to be pushed back or pulled ahead for kick down? I used the chain stuff (like for sink plugs) from the hardware store for pull stuff, and push stuff, cut the rod and add a piece of allthread with a pipe spacer and double nut (like they use for the clutch linkage) From: "Vince Orr" Subject: fsj: Rez Report Well, been tinkering with the new engine on and off. Just didn't seem to run right. So the other day, I disconnected the vacuum setup and connected the carb straight to the distributor. Now all the little vacuum gadgets and valves are without vacuum. Only running vacuum to the EGR setup and the brake booster now. That was the trick. It really came alive. This new engine is nice. Plenty of power when I want it. The big SUV's can't keep up on the tollway. And I'm still getting 15 mpg. Just have one minor problem......with the Edelbrock carb, the linkage for the transmission kick down is farther forward than the old carb. It doesn't reach well. There is a thing that looks like a bent coat hanger that connects the carb to the linkage arm. I need one that is longer. Should I just try to make one out of heavy wire or a coat hanger? Otherwise, I have to manually shift down when I really want to hit the power. Other problem is my pull chain on the cruise control hits the bottom of my aftermarket Edelbrock 15" air cleaner. Works OK most of the time but you can tell when the chain hangs up. Won't resume speed entirely. - - --Vince '81 Wag '99 TJ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 08:12:48 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: What is this Jeep? This was at the KOA in Ouray. What is it, exactly? (I always get a bunch of those old Willys-type Jeeps confused among models...) There are three pictures... http://129.186.79.84/CO%20Aug2002/oldjeep/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I got lost, so I decided to go look for myself. If I happen to return before I find myself, tell me to sit down and wait. I'll be right back. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 11:38:05 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: custom transmission linkage (was "Rez Report") {- Just have one minor problem......with the Edelbrock carb, the linkage for the {- transmission kick down is farther forward than the old carb. It doesn't reach {- well. There is a thing that looks like a bent coat hanger that connects the {- carb to the linkage arm. I need one that is longer. Should I just try to {- make one out of heavy wire or a coat hanger? Otherwise, I have to manually {- shift down when I really want to hit the power. Yes, Virginia, you _can_ make the transmission linkage from a wire coat hanger. In fact, that's specifically in the instructions for the CustomEFIs TBI system I got. Pictures: http://129.186.79.84/FSJ/TBI/misc/tranny%20linkage%201.jpg http://129.186.79.84/FSJ/TBI/misc/tranny%20linkage%202.jpg Just use a couple pairs of pliers for bending; and, to make things easier, a big bolt cutter. I think I made one or two that weren't quite good enough before making a good one (and the pictures may not actually be my final one; they look a bit angled...), but you start to get a feel for it. Anyway, I think you're supposed to be careful to keep the transmission linkage coming straight forward (in relation to the vehicle), hence the double 90-degree offset made by the coathanger (instead of a mostly-straight one that would end up making the linkage go at an upward angle -- again, I think those pictures are my first attempt, which _was_ too angled). Something about eventually wearing it out otherwise, though I'm not sure the details since I never learned all the details about the transmission parts. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Show me a man with both feet planted firmly on the ground and I'll show you a man who can't put on his pants. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:05:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Alexander Wall Subject: Re: fsj: Re: deep puddles... I see what you mean. I can't even imagine the surprise! I have frequently charged into puddles in my Waggy - it's fun. I would have been suckered by this without question! Alex - --- john wrote: > > never heard of a sinkhole in europe... that usually results > from limestone erosion, typical of florida, but not the european > continent... > > note the construction equipment nearby... > > john > > At 08:18 AM 10/2/2002 -0700, Alexander Wall wrote: > > Could also be a sinkhole, with the water a result of raining and > > flooding. Seems like kind of a > >deep hole for a watermain accident. > > > >Alex > > > > > > > >--- john wrote: > > > At 10:28 PM 10/1/2002 +0000, FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com wrote: > > > >Hey, Jim, > > > > Is that you standing there in the striped shirt and white shopping > > > >bag? Should have had a lifted Jeep. > > > >Bob > > > >--- In FSJ-List-at-y..., "Jim B" wrote: > > > > > http://www.minca.cz/suzuki/ > > > > > > any idea of what was going on there Jim? looks like a water > > > main broke and the road collapsed... :) This looks like it > > > was in Czechoslovkia, if you can find text I might be able to > > > translate it. My great grandparents came from Prague, I think > > > my uncle still has a dictionary laying around... > > > > > > john > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >===== > >Alexander Wall > >Spokane, WA > >================================================================================= > >"Before you attempt to beat the odds, be sure you can survive the odds > >beating you!" - E.L. Kersten, Ph.D. > >================================================================================= > >New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! > >http://sbc.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ===== Alexander Wall Spokane, WA ================================================================================= "Before you attempt to beat the odds, be sure you can survive the odds beating you!" - E.L. Kersten, Ph.D. ================================================================================= New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 10:42:44 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: the M3S project oohh yeah... this sounds excellent... more details on the injection setup... name of system... what gears do you recommend? :) turbo or supercharger? john At 07:11 AM 10/2/2002 +0000, fsj-digest wrote: >From: "Jim B" >Subject: Re: fsj: Re: why >A: I'd be more inclined to grab one of Herman's aluminum 401 blocks (built >out to 522 like his drag car!) pop injection and the new Edelbrock intake and >heads, plus EFI goodies on it with a turbo. Can you say AMC rises again? - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 10:47:46 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: 3.54's At 07:11 AM 10/2/2002 +0000, fsj-digest wrote: >Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 14:30:11 CDT >From: Dan Black >Subject: fsj: gears > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1863120642 > >Woo hoo! Gettin' some 3.54s for the '88. Will be much better than the >2.72s, eh? Dan, yes, these will be excellent ratios for your rig... my son's 77 chero has these and they seemed ideal. The factory option was 3.31's, thewe will be a bit lower, meaning you'll probably want to run taller tires... a body lift would help... ;) didn't you win the "lowest" FSJ at Ouray? ;) estimate around $250 per axle to setup tops... recommend using amsoil synthetic gear lube and new bearings/seals when you do it. screamin' deal... you'll have to pull the plastic gear out of the xfr case and check the number... then figure the percentage difference btwn the 2.72s and the 3.54s, it's like one tooth for 3% or something like that... the dealer should know. I have to do my '87 xj too... GPS showed it's off by quite a bit, the previous owner went with taller tires, when I'm doing 30mph on the speedo I'm doing 34 or so... or was it 64mph at 60mph on the clock? either way it's a ticket waiting to happen... :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/Filter_INFORMATION/air_filter-1.jpg http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/Filter_INFORMATION/air_filter-2.jpg SJ Jeeps: 360/401: TS-23 258: TS-12 retail $21.50 XJ Jeeps: 4.0L/2.5L('87 and up): TS-29 retail $29.95 WJ Jeeps: 4.7L: TS-104 retail $47.50 DieselBenz: typical S1118 or S1680 retail $32.50 or $39.85 http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/ order 1-800-956-5695 cust# 283461 Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 12:54:06 -0700 From: "Faith Jeff" Subject: fsj: RE: What is this Jeep? check out this link...got some collection of pics. http://www.public.asu.edu/~grover/willys/g1/gallery1.html > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Black [SMTP:dan-at-black.org] > Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 6:13 AM > To: Full Size Jeeps > Subject: fsj: What is this Jeep? > > This was at the KOA in Ouray. What is it, exactly? (I always get a > bunch of those old Willys-type Jeeps confused among models...) There > are three pictures... > > http://129.186.79.84/CO%20Aug2002/oldjeep/ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > I got lost, so I decided to go look for myself. > If I happen to return before I find myself, tell me to sit down and > wait. > I'll be right back. > -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org > -------------- This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, contains information from Prescription Solutions which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 15:40:39 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: Re: What is this Jeep? "Faith Jeff" said: {- > From: Dan Black [SMTP:dan-at-black.org] {- > Subject: fsj: What is this Jeep? {- > {- > This was at the KOA in Ouray. What is it, exactly? (I always get a {- > bunch of those old Willys-type Jeeps confused among models...) There {- > are three pictures... {- > {- > http://129.186.79.84/CO%20Aug2002/oldjeep/ {- check out this link...got some collection of pics. {- {- http://www.public.asu.edu/~grover/willys/g1/gallery1.html Yeah, I actually found that site earlier today with Google after you mentioned something like that in the previous email. In comparing those, I've come to the conclusion it was just called a "Willys wagon" (or station wagon), with no better model name than that. Just judging from the years displayed in that gallery, I'm guessing it was made clear through the 50s and through at least the mid-60s. The one in my pics was probably early 60s (single-pane windshield). That's good enough for my description purposes. Thanks to all who helped! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I finally stopped asking "What Would Jesus Do?" when I realized the answers were coming in first-century Aramaic. Fat lot of good *that* did me! -- Mark Spence - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 20:41:18 -0500 From: "Vince Orr" Subject: fsj: Re: custom transmission linkage (was "Rez Report") Thanks for the pictures Dan! My carb doesn't sit that high so I shouldn't have as much trouble with angles. I'll be drifting through your end of the country soon. Going to hunt coyotes again the weekends of the 12th and the 19th in western Iowa. Have to go to a plant near Iowa City around the end of the month. I'll probably drive the Rez to put on some highway miles. Got kinda cold around here the other day so I put the hard top on the TJ. - --Vince '81 Wagoneer '99 TJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Black" To: "Full Size Jeeps" Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 11:38 AM Subject: fsj: custom transmission linkage (was "Rez Report") {- Just have one minor problem......with the Edelbrock carb, the linkage for the {- transmission kick down is farther forward than the old carb. It doesn't reach {- well. There is a thing that looks like a bent coat hanger that connects the {- carb to the linkage arm. I need one that is longer. Should I just try to {- make one out of heavy wire or a coat hanger? Otherwise, I have to manually {- shift down when I really want to hit the power. Yes, Virginia, you _can_ make the transmission linkage from a wire coat hanger. In fact, that's specifically in the instructions for the CustomEFIs TBI system I got. Pictures: http://129.186.79.84/FSJ/TBI/misc/tranny%20linkage%201.jpg http://129.186.79.84/FSJ/TBI/misc/tranny%20linkage%202.jpg Just use a couple pairs of pliers for bending; and, to make things easier, a big bolt cutter. I think I made one or two that weren't quite good enough before making a good one (and the pictures may not actually be my final one; they look a bit angled...), but you start to get a feel for it. Anyway, I think you're supposed to be careful to keep the transmission linkage coming straight forward (in relation to the vehicle), hence the double 90-degree offset made by the coathanger (instead of a mostly-straight one that would end up making the linkage go at an upward angle -- again, I think those pictures are my first attempt, which _was_ too angled). Something about eventually wearing it out otherwise, though I'm not sure the details since I never learned all the details about the transmission parts. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Show me a man with both feet planted firmly on the ground and I'll show you a man who can't put on his pants. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 09:59:23 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: T-18s At 08:27 AM 10/3/2002 +0000, FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com wrote: > From: "Marvin Fernow" >Subject: gear ratios in t-18 >does anyone know all gear ratios in the t-18 or t-18a transmissions? i >could use the help. >Thanks >Marvin I've got the ratios in the shop manual... Will try to look tonight. What's a T-18 out of a '77 Cherokee worth? My son just pulled his and I guess we're going to sell it. I know that first gear is 6.35 or so to 1, and of course 4th is 1:1, that leaves me with the homework assignment of 2nd and 3rd. ;) He's installing the TH400/QT I brought back from SLC. Also, how hard is it to pull the output shaft out of the back of a Dana 20? john meister snomomish, washington - ----------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html '83 J10 stepside (SJ) - http://wagoneers.com/SuperDawg '87 Cherokee Pioneer (XJ) - http://wagoneers.com/XJ/rigs/johns-87 238K! '99 Grand Cherokee Ltd (WJ) - http://wagoneers.com/WJ '67 J-100 Panel (SJ) - http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/johns-67-Panel/ '77 Cherokee (SJ) - http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/marks-77-cherokee '76 Datsun 280Z - http://www.wagoneers.com/tmp/280Z/ (for sale) '67 Ford Fairlane - http://www.wagoneers.com/ebay/fairlane/ (for sale) '75 Jeep J10 - almost a trailer... '54 Chevy box... almost a trailer... (for sale) Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1760 **************************