From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sat Oct 12 14:10:40 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Saturday, October 12 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1766 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: "New" Commanche fsj: Jeep FSJ, XJ, MJ and AMC Eagle Parts in Seattle fsj: Re: 1985, Grand Wagoneer fsj: Re: 4.0Ls in FSJs fsj: Re: Question quadratrac FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:40:03 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Re: "New" Commanche A: If you need a 2WD 5 speed trans for the 4.0L, let me know as I have a rebuilt one for the 4.0L (guy spent $1500 on it!) for $100 (I also have a 2WD AX-5 from my 4 cyl that I swapped out for the 4WD version) You can probably find another Holley Pro-Jection before then! Don wrote: I'm getting an 89 MJ tomorrow for $700. 2 wheel drive(Rats!); 4.0 liter; auto; cap on the bed; good tires. Not crazy about the 2 wheel drive, but at least I won't have to worry about the xfer case or vacuum disconnect axles. This is going to replace my 88 GW for my daughters to take to college. The Waggy will be semi-retired to either partsmobile of projectmobile status. I'm leaning toward a long-term spifferoo on it... Can you say "Ouray 2112"?? Might be done by then!!! - -Don Hansen Braintree, MA. fixxa-at-beld.net 1992 XJ Laredo "Helga" 1988 Grand Wagoneer "Edna" (Retired) 1987 J-20 "Miss Agnes" Holley Pro-Jection-Vroom! 1988 XJ "Betty" 1989 MJ Name TBA... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:44:57 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Jeep FSJ, XJ, MJ and AMC Eagle Parts in Seattle 4.6L stroker motor: not yet assembled, but all parts are there. Specs: '89 block bored 0.030, new pistons, rings, bearings, gaskets, etc (still in box). 4.2L serpentine crank ground 10/10. All rotating parts are balanced. I have receipts for almost $3000 of work and parts, not counting my time. This includes a complete core motor with all accessories still attached, but not the EFI harness. ('97 HO injectors and cam are included) '80-'88 AMC Eagle non-vacuum Dana 30 front and Dana 35 (Model 15 with one piece shafts from '88 XJ) rear diffs $100 each (3.08 ratio) or $175 pair; 2.37 ratio vacuum front diff $50 obo; Near new brake rotors $50 pair; lightly used Dana 30 3.08 gears only $35 set (I have forward and reverse cut sets); Starter for AMC 6 or 8 cyl $20; used auto trans mount $5; used door hinges $15 pair; Carter BBD carb $35 (ran well unplugged); used rad $35 (kept my Eagle cool) boxed and ready to go in a Go-Dan box; used ignition module $20 obo; used model 15 spider gears with carrier $10 '77 Matador: 6 connecting rods #707 from a 360, resized and ready to go $100 (cost me $150 plus machining, but then found out they won't work in the 6 cyl stroker I'm building); good used trans mount $5; starter $20; rebuilt V8 points dist with new cap and rotor $60; 1 new '79 AMC Concord brake rotor Raybestos #4510 (minor surface rust from box getting wet) $35 '83 Dodge Wide one van $600 obo, needs right rear axle shaft; '89 Cherokee 4 dr: Rear hatch with defog and wiper $150; grey tilt/cruise column and wheel $100 obo; D35 Axle 3.08 ratio $100 rear; Master cyl/booster $25; rear chrome bumper $35 (needs rubber ends); bare Dana 35 housing $25; tail-lights $20 each; Wiper motor with arms $20; useable but dirty red seats $20; grey console and shift boot for std trans $20; misc parts $5 and up. '86/'87 Comanche 2WD parts: 4 cyl core that ran but rattled $150 obo (I think it's the timing chain the PO put in); AX-5 2WD trans $100 (fits 4 cyl with TBI); 2WD front axle $50; complete '87 box with rear frame to make a trailer (no tongue or axle yet) $150; Rebuilt BA-1/5 2WD trans from 4.0L, complete with near new clutch, driveshaft yoke and shifter $150 obo; used 4 cyl rad $25; left front fender $10; rear bumper $50 obo '84 Jeep J10 parts: aluminum front bumper $75; Model 20 axle 3.31 open gears $150; New Model 20 Chrome rear cover $35; 4 brand new Wild Country 315/75/16 (-at-35/12.5) mounted and balanced on 6 bolt alloy rims (fits Chev to '88 and 3/4 ton Chev 2WD after that) $1500 obo (I'm going to 37" instead); NP208 $200; NP228 $200 obo Jeep CJ5: Model 20 axle 3.54 SOA $100; New Model 20 Chrome rear cover $35 '76 J10: gas tank $30 (minor dent); Box and frame to make a trailer $100 obo (no tailgate or tongue); SOA D44 front axle 3.08 gears non-posi $150 (actually from '76 Blazer but fits '74 to '79 truck and widetrac); Matching pair front and rear dana 44 with 4.10 ratio (rear needs spider gears) $200 for both; Std flywheel from 360 with complete clutch $100; rebuilt points dist for 360 $60 with new cap and rotor (Mallory wires that need minor fixing included); rear bumper $40 obo; steering box $35; '84 Grand Wagoneer/'83 Cherokee: 1 tail-light $20; starters $25; alloy slotted rims $100 or $150 with caps; '76 Wag tailgate with glass and motor $50 obo (rusty bottom); Pair of 8' wide trailer axles (DIY tow dolly?) $50 with tires and 6 bolt rims '83 Dodge van class 1 trailer hitch $25 Used starters for GMs: 6 cyl std starter $20, 350 Chev auto starter $20, 350 Olds (Left mount) $20 GM alternator cores 10si (builtin reg, same as '80-'91 FS Jeep) $10 ea Misc: 4 Rockwell 5 bolt gold honeycomb rims (wrong pattern for XJ); '80 Nissan 210 motor, 5 speed (core), muffler and rad (open to offers); basketball hoop $20; 12 orange road cones; 3 Michelin 205/50 ZR16 $45 obo; ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 08:26:57 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: 1985, Grand Wagoneer Excellent! :) john At 09:38 AM 10/11/2002 -0700, Josi De Lesn wrote: >WOW >It is really working now, i knew that when we do things in the name of >JESUS, everything comes out perfect, that is why we do everything in the >name of JESUS. >Thanks for your support, me and my family(1 girl and 3 boys) and my wife >assist at the BETHEL BAPTIST CHURCH of Puerto Rico, we have some other >churches (missions) around the world and thru the caribbean, doing as Jesus >told us to do (i know you been doing it thru the net, keep on it): "Id por >todo el mundo y predicad el evangelio a toda criatura" (Marcus. 16:15), >excuse me, but dont know how to say it in english. > >God Bless You and Your Family. > >Josi and Family > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "john" >To: "Josi De Lesn" >Cc: >Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 9:59 PM >Subject: Re: 1985, Grand Wagoneer > > >6 degrees... 258. :) > >john > >At 01:40 PM 10/8/2002 -0700, Josi De Lesn wrote: > >Hello > >Excuse the delay but been to busy, Thanks for your support, but yesterday i > >found out it is not a 4.0 litter engine, but a 4.2, 258, still i will try > >the degrees you told me. > > > >Tu hermano en Cristo > >Josi > > > >Muchas Gracias > >Y que el Seqor te Bendiga a tm y a los tuyos. > >Amin, Amin, Amin > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "john" > >To: "Josi De Lesn" > >Cc: > >Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 9:06 PM > >Subject: Re: 1985, Grand Wagoneer > > > > > > > >the MR 253 (factory service manual) says 10 degrees BTDC +/-1 degree. > > > >At 04:00 PM 10/1/2002 -0700, Josi De Lesn wrote: > > > i been trying to get the correct timing degrees, > > > > > >john > > > >============================================================= > > The just shall live by Faith... > >Der Gerechte wird aus Glauben leben... > >Mas El Justo vivira Por Fe... > >Le Juste vivra par la foi... > > > > Habakkuk 2:4b, Romans 1:17, Galations 3:11, Hebrews 10:38 > > > >============================================================= > > > > Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, > >the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1 > > > > There is no other name... Acts 4:12 > > > >============================================================= > > john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com > > http://www.helpmewithbiblestudy.org/ > > http://www.freegift.net/ - can you pass this test? > >http://www.wagoneers.com/BIBLE > >what about Islam? see: > >http://www.persecution.com/news/index.cfm?action=article&NewsId=111 > >============================================================= > >------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 09:55:28 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: 4.0Ls in FSJs I'm in the process of installing a '96 4.0L into my '83 J10 Stepside... I believe it'll be fine as I had a high mileage XJ that I towed the equivalent weight behind to make it the same as an FSJ. :) It did ok, you won't be racing anyone, but you can't do that with a 360 and stock gears either. Mileage with the weight was around 16 mpg. With proper gearing and smaller tires you could see closer to 18mpg on the freeway. (the xj weighs in around 3,500 lbs, plus or minus, while my J10 weighs in around 4,100 lbs and Old Blue tipped the scales at 5,200lbs (must have been the spare parts in the back as most FSJs weigh somewhere between 4,500 and 4,900lbs) I think if I were setting up a Grand Wagoneer instead of a J10 I'd look for the '99 and up WJ driveline, probably with the 4.7L V8. :) The 4.7L V8 SOHC motor is sweet, smooth and fast. We're getting over 20mpg on the freeway with it, and around 16-17 towing a trailer at 75mph... Of course the price for a 4.7LV8 with computers and wiring harnesses and transmission and xfr case could easily be $3,000 if you're lucky enough to find a complete one... perhaps more... I've seen some of the newer engines complete for conversions priced out at $7,500 at some yards... :( You'll need ALL the wiring harnesses and computers. This is not a drop in and run conversion. However, it's not something drastic or terrifying either. The newer engines are quite modular, parts are plentiful and the stuff is RELIABLE. I recommend getting a wrecked XJ complete and getting all your parts that way. I picked up a wrecked '96 XJ for my SuperDawg project on ebay. I think you'll be happy with even a 4.0L with the Aisin Warner 4speed automatic... the transfer case is an issue though, We had to make an adapter to mate the NP219 (or NP208 or NP229) to the AW4. If you use the existing NP231 or 242 from the 4.0L you'll end up wanting to use a Slip Yoke Eliminator (SYE) on the rear output shaft. You may also find that driveline lengths will need to be modified. All in all I'm VERY happy with the 4.0L's I've owned... about 8 XJ/MJs to date. Much, much happier then ANY driveline I've had in my 20 FSJs. I've owned FSJ's with the 232, 327, 350, 360, and 258s. yech. they all had issues. The 4.0L is a superb, long-lived modern engine that will find a place in your heart and perhaps in your FSJ. :) BTW, there are differences in the 4.0L. 87-90 used the Renix computers, they're fine, regardless of what some may say, I'm driving an '87 xj with 238,000 miles on it now, my '88 had 210k when it got totalled, and I had another '87 xj that ended up with 320,000 miles before it got totalled (by the kid that bought it from me), in fact, the parts truck at the old jeep dealer was an '87 MJ and it had over 435,000 miles and is still going, ORIGINAL ENGINE on all of these... with the ORIGINAL computers... sure they had crank position sensors replaced, rear main seals replaced from time to time... and so on... Then there is the '90 and up HO motors. From what I've heard the best engines are supposed to be the '94 to '97 engines, of course the newest ones are probably fine too. One issue I have experienced, as have others is piston slap in number 1 cylinder. Of course if you're looking at a used motor and it's not making noise it'll probably be fine. Oh yeah, there is one other option... making a 4.0L into a STROKER motor... I think they're 4.6-4.9L depending on the way you set them up. I personally don't recommend them, but the guys that have them like them. If SuperDawg ever gets done... we'll find out with certainty the benefits and mileage. :) (at this point we're extending the cab, I think we're going to pass up on the Dana 60 rear axle, no point, there is a full floater kit for the Dana 44 and I really don't want to mess around with 16 and 16.5" tires when I have to excellent sets of Michelins now.) john meister At 08:36 AM 10/11/2002 +0000, FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com wrote: >Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:46:56 -0700 (PDT) > From: Will Morris >Subject: 4.0 HO and 4spd. Auto? > >With all the talk of fuel mileage and engine swaps in >FSJs, has anyone out there actually swapped in a fuel >injected 4.0? If so what kind of mileage did you get >and did you think it was adequate for moving the 4.5k >lbs of steel around? I was kicking around the idea of >a 4.0HO and 4spd auto transmission out of a newer >Cherokee or Grand Cherokee in my FSJ. Do you think >it'd be up to the stress of the extra wait? Is it >even possible or am I just dreaming? > >Thanks, >Will >78 Cherokee NT S "The Magic Bus" >78 Cherokee Chief waiting to be built - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 13:51:53 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Question quadratrac absolutely normal. Working perfectly. You have open differentials so only one tire will spin on each end of the vehicle. The fact that one on each end was spinning indicates your transfer case was working as designed. What sometimes helps in cases like that is a light foot on the brake. The other option is to add a "traction aiding device" (TAD) on the rear, typically. I wouldn't recommend a locker for street use though. Jeep makes a TAD called the Trac-Lock. It's ok, but not terribly useful off-road. There are lots of options for TADs. Randy's Ring and Pinion Service would be the folks I'd call for options. :) john At 04:23 PM 10/12/2002 -0400, wrote: >Hi!! >My name is Josue and I have a question you may answer. > >I have a Grand Cherokee 1993 with the quadratrac system (4 full time , >neutral and 4 low) > >I got stucked in sand last week and i noticed only one rear tire and 1 front >tire were spinning. > >I tested on 4 low with same results, only one tire for rear and only one for >the front. > >Is this normal?? Is not supposed to work 4 wheels at the time?? > >I was acelerating and didn4t see anything .. > >Please help >Regards - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1766 **************************