From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Nov 11 11:59:05 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, November 11 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1789 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Fwd: from zach on xfr cases fsj: john's pics fsj: brakes Re: fsj: brakes fsj: the Eagle has landed... :) FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 21:13:17 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Fwd: from zach on xfr cases To: Subject: from zach Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 15:09:56 -0800 From: "Zack Heisey" <zmjeeps-at-desupernet.net> Subject: Re: 241 vs 242 - Tcase 101 (long) Remember, you ask for this. Decoding NP/NVG transfer cases is fairly simply, once you know the current system. Each tcase has a 3 number call out, like 231, 241, 242, etc. These three numbers will tell you the basics. First Number: The number of speeds. If it is a standard high range, neutral, low range transfer case, the number is 2. If it is a single speed with no low range, like a 133, it gets a 1. Second Number: The size of the case, physically, and has a lot to do with how strong the case is. The case sizes current are: 2, 3, 4, 6, 7. With 22X series being the smallest and 27X series being the largest. Third Number: This is where it gets confusing. The third number tells you what type of 4wd system is in the transfer case. Current systems are designated by: 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7 and I'll explain. 1 - Part time (PT) transfer case, manually shifted. When in 4wd, front and rear driveshafts are locked together. If its a 2 speed tcase, then it would have 4 positions, 2wd, 4wd, N, 4 loPT. These cases are shifted by a lever on the floor. Example: 231, 241, 261, 271 2- Part time transfer case plus Full time (FT), manually shifted. A geared differential is used to allow the driveshafts to turn at different speeds, while still applying torque. Some are 4 position and some are 5. 4 position have 4FT, 4PT, N, 4loPT. 5 position boxes get a true 2wd where the differential is bypassed and all the torque goes to the rear driveshaft. These cases are shifted by a lever on the floor. Example: 242, 242HD, 242AMG 3 - Part time (PT) transfer case, electrically shifted. Everything is the same as a -1-, except an electric motor is used to shift the transfer case. Instead of a lever on the floor, you have a button or a dial on the dash. Example: 133, 233, 243, 263, 273 4 - Part time transfer case plus Full time (FT), electrically shifted. Everything is the same as a -2-, except an electric motor is used to shift the transfer case. Instead of a lever on the floor, you have a button or a dial on the dash. Example - 244 5 - Currently, there is no 5. 6 - Active on demand System. Front and rear axles are constantly monitored electronically to detect any differences in speed due to wheel slippage. When a speed difference is detected, a computer signals the transfer case clutch pack to engage. Torque transfer is transparent to the driver, meaning the driver can tell it happened, like all four wheels are now pulling, but you didn't have to pull a lever or turn a dial to activate it. Example: 226, 236, 246 7 - Progressive on demand system. The vehicle operates in 2WD. When traction is lost by one of the driving wheels, power is automatically transferred to the other axle. Torque transfer is transparent to the driver, meaning the driver can tell it happened, like all four wheels are now pulling, but you didn't have to pull a lever or turn a dial to activate it. Example: 247 This is already way to long. If anyone wants a break down of what case goes into what, I could do it in another email. NVG has a pretty informative web site, complete with torque capacities at http://www.nvg.com/tcases.html. The rest of the site is good as well. If you go to the aftermarket sales page and email or call in with a question regarding tcases, take a wild guess who it gets referred too. Have a nice weekend. Zack Heisey zmjeeps-at-desupernet.net ========================================================================== For Full Size Jeep help see: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech - technical information http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs - pictures of FSJ's http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-list.html - FSJ list on digest.net http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/digests - list digests more info at: http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-info.html ========================================================================== Snohomish, Washington, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... remember, leaving life with out Jesus isn't recommended... ========================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 23:05:55 -0700 From: "Daniel Beiers" Subject: fsj: john's pics cool pics of your sons chero...do you ever feel guilty of raising a jeep addict? my dad did it to me :) he bought a brand new cj-5 when i was 4 years old, it was all donwhill from there. i drove his 53 willys pickup to high school for te first 6 months i had my license. only because the 47 cj-2a, which he ENCOURAGED me to buy as my first car, had the tub off and was being rebuilt. among other assorted cars i have owned a 51 m38a (someting like that) 80 cj-7, 86 cj-7, 85 grand wagoneer, 88 cherokee, and a 98 grand cherokee since i got my driver license 10 years ago. he is a great man! but my fiancee doesn't think much of him :) Dan 86 CJ-7 - Trail use only 98 Grand Cheorkee Limited - Daily driver 85 Grand Wagoneer - For Sale http://cjseven.jeeps.org/wagoneer.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:14:08 -0600 From: "John Pettit" Subject: fsj: brakes Hello there. I recently bought an '81 Wagoneer that's in great running condition (except for the brakes) I need some help getting to the root of the problem: Two Weeks Ago: The brakes went down pretty far to the floor, but still stopped the car - and I wasn't too concerned about it. Then, eventually, they went all the way down and it didn't stop it at all. Then, the pressure seemed to build back up or something, and they worked again, but very unpredictable. They make somewhat of a hissing noise when you pump them. I was told it was probably the power brake booster. So I bought one - it should be in Monday. Then - I let the car sit for a few days. Today: I was driving the Jeep - trying to go mid-night mudding & the brakes were about the same - until halfway into the trip. Then, before we got off road at all - they went completely out - and I could push them all the way to the floor. Thankfully, we were on a long straight stretch without any traffic, and we eventually stopped. Then, I drove home at about 5MPH the whole way. The brakes never started working again, and even the emergency brake doesn't work. To make a long story short, I stopped by hitting my garage at home. Please help if you can!! Thanks, John Pettit p.s. that's me in the middle of the picture.... [demime 0.99c.7 removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of garage_hit.jpg] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:28:52 -0600 From: JeepNut Subject: Re: fsj: brakes It seems reasonable to me to consider this as 2 problems actually. Hydraulic system failure Mechanical system failure 1. Are there any leaks of brake fluid? Trace every line from the master cylinder to each wheel, look on the back side of every wheel looking for leaking fluids. 2. Make double sure you are getting good vacumn at the brake bootser. Even if the line to the brake booster looks good, make sure you aren't leaking vac down somewhere else. Just because the hose looks good there doesn't mean there's a sufficient vacumn in it. 3. Inspect linings. Pull the back wheels/drums first and check the wear on the linings. The emergency brake just works by cable, so if the emergency brake doesn't work you have to consider: a. The cable assy adjustment may be off so much that the EBrake isn't pulling the linings out far enough for them to contact the brake drum wall... b. Drum-brake self-adjusting hardware is notorious for being inoperative so the brakes could just be far out of adjustment or hungup, disallowing the EBrake to work. c. Are the brakes assembled correctly? Many a dspo has mis-assembled a set of rear drum brakes for some unsuspecting new owner... do the linings actually expand outward in response to light pedal pressure? d. Do the linings look like they are worn evenly, or are there lots of ridges? or deep gouges? It should become pretty apparent pretty fast what is gone wrong with the emergency brakes. Have a bud sit in the seat and press the EBrake pedal down while you watch what the rear brake lining and hardware is doing, but have him go easy on it, just push it enough for you to see if the system is doing what it is supposed to do anyway.... WARNING: These parts are under significant pressure and the springs 'n things will hurt you if something lets go while you're down there with your face in the open wheel/brake assy. Be careful. Apply pedal pressures slowly and only as much as necessary to see what you need to see. If all the linings look good, not worn out, but some wear at each wheel to indicate that they HAVE been working... No obvious leaks... Brake hardware and assemblies seem mechanically competent... Yet they just won't pump up and grab the brake rotors/drums when you hit the brake pedal, then you've probably got a master cylinder issue I would guess. I've changed a lot of brake linings, hardware, etc., but I'm no master mechanic. But I'll say that if you check those things out you'll know where your brake system stands on this new acquisition and you'll know whether you need to find out more about the master cylinder... JeepNut John Pettit wrote: >Hello there. > >I recently bought an '81 Wagoneer that's in great running condition (except >for the brakes) I need some help getting to the root of the problem: > >Two Weeks Ago: > >The brakes went down pretty far to the floor, but still stopped the car - and >I wasn't too concerned about it. Then, eventually, they went all the way down >and it didn't stop it at all. Then, the pressure seemed to build back up or >something, and they worked again, but very unpredictable. > >They make somewhat of a hissing noise when you pump them. I was told it was >probably the power brake booster. So I bought one - it should be in Monday. > >Then - I let the car sit for a few days. > >Today: > >I was driving the Jeep - trying to go mid-night mudding & the brakes were >about the same - until halfway into the trip. Then, before we got off road at >all - they went completely out - and I could push them all the way to the >floor. Thankfully, we were on a long straight stretch without any traffic, >and we eventually stopped. > >Then, I drove home at about 5MPH the whole way. The brakes never started >working again, and even the emergency brake doesn't work. To make a long >story short, I stopped by hitting my garage at home. > >Please help if you can!! > >Thanks, > >John Pettit > >p.s. that's me in the middle of the picture.... > >[demime 0.99c.7 removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of garage_hit.jpg] > > > - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:30:20 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: the Eagle has landed... :) the Eagle landed on my hillside on Sunday... :) The Golden Eagle that is, a '79 WT Cherokee http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/GoldenEagle/all-golden-eagle-oct26-2002.jpg I'm going to make it road/trail worthy and part company with it... I don't need it, have too many rigs already. It's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but it's a cool looking rig. I'll finish patching the floor pan (roof leaked and rusted the floor, fenders aren't rusty), fix the well-nuts for the two roof racks, fix the brakes, exhaust manifold and a few other odds and ends. I'm buying a better tailgate for it for the rear, it has one off of a rusted '78 Wagoneer Limited right now. I'm buying the "deer-slayer" GW's tailgate (Paul Kershner's '84 that got totalled on the way back from Ouray this summer). I'm going to install the brush guard ( a home built unit) that came on Mark's 77 Cherokee, probably install a stereo and so on. It'll be a great trail rig. If you're good with sheet metal you could restore this one... dents and bends all over the place. Funny though, it looks good, decent paint... The title won't be clear for another 3 years, but can be transferred, sold, licensed or parted. The original owner sold it to the guy and never transferred the title... that was years ago, the FSJ sat in a field for a while and the original owner moved on... A registered letter was sent and returned, state police has inspected it and now it's just a matter of waiting out the time. Shouldn't be a problem. If you're worried about such things this isn't the rig for you. :) (If you're one of those FUD factor car fax type followers... don't get me started... ;) Soon as we get Mark's '77 Cherokee out of my carport/shop we'll be rolling it down the hill and getting it going. We finally got Mark's TH400 up into his rig last night, about 2am... :) Harbor Freight finally got the tranny jack in on Saturday. Of course my son hadn't removed the cross member or front drive shaft so it was a real bear. Finally pulled the drive shaft and loosened the exhaust system and with much effort got it in and got a bolt started... It's worth $200 to have someone else R&R these things... ;) If you're interested in the Golden Eagle drop me an email at john-at-wagoneers.com Won't know if it'll be capable of an extended drive until I go through it a bit... of course the price goes up as the systems get worked on... ;) buy now, buy cheap... ;) Save an Eagle... clean up my hillside... (oh yeah, still have that '54 Chevy Bed to part with, and the '76 280Z should be coming out of the shop today, and my son may be selling his '62 Galaxie 500... the thing is amazing... light throttle and a shift into 2nd gear causes the rear end to break loose... that 460 is built to the hilt... fuel economy is not it's strong point though... rofl... My son is actually talking some sense in selling it and putting the money into his FSJ... :) Of course he's also talking about getting an XJ... I think if he sold all of his vehicles and just got a nice XJ like Dan Starc's he'd be happy... I wonder if the Golden Eagle would sell well on ebay? rofl... Any idea what it's worth? Sure wish the body wasn't all dented... :( btw, Happy Veteran's Day... (us army 1974-1981) I'm at work today... (we take an extended Christmas break so I don't mind). john meister - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com - - 67 J100 Panel (SJ) - 83 J10 Stepside (SJ) - 99 grand cherokee (wj) - '76 datsun 280Z (4sale) - - 62 Galaxie (4 sale?) - '77 cherokee (SJ) - '79 Golden Eagle (FSJ) (4 sale) - '87 Cherokee (XJ) - '83 Ford Ranger Diesel - '75 J10 trailer jesus, don't leave life without him, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1789 **************************