From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed May 7 12:47:49 2003 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, May 7 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1923 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: Question fsj: RE: Re: Question fsj: RE: Re: Question Re: fsj: RE: Re: Question fsj: Re: Question fsj: Surround Molding fsj: Re: Question fsj: Tailgate Window issue. Re: fsj: Tailgate Window issue. Re: fsj: Tailgate Window issue. fsj: steering wheel parts fsj: crazy thought... 3.0L TD into J10? fsj: Re: xj: Re: crazy thought... 3.0L TD into J10? FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 10:45:41 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Question At 01:35 PM 5/6/2003 -0400, gerry.harter-at-lynchburgva.gov wrote: >John >I have a 1985 Grand Wagoneer (360 cu) that smokes (blueish white) and >actually smokes worse when warmed up. Any idea what this maybe. Any >direction to put me in? I am ready to replace piston rings and gaskets but >I want to make sure what the problem is. Any help would be appreciated. >Thanks. >Gerry Harter >Va How many miles? blueish white could be a head gasket... are there bubbles in your antifreeze or swelling in the hoses? is there water in your oil? I'd run a compression check before doing anything, see if all the cylinders are close to each other. Also, read the plugs and see what they say. It might just be one bank that needs help. It could just be the valve seals, but the fact that it gets worse when it's warmed up makes me think of a head gasket... It could also be something as simple as the intake manifold not tight enough allowing coolant to leak into the intake creating a smoke screen generator. :) Try torquing the intake manifold to spec and seeing if that helps. The 360 is notorious for loose bolts and sensitivity to vacuum leaks, and exhaust leaks, and oil leaks... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 13:47:26 -0400 From: James Isennock Subject: fsj: RE: Re: Question The biggest leak mine has is all the money leaking out of my wallet. LOL :) Jay Isennock - -----Original Message----- From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 1:46 PM To: gerry.harter-at-lynchburgva.gov Cc: fsj-at-digest.net; fsjeeps-at-smartgroups.com; FSJparts-at-yahoogroups.com; FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com Subject: fsj: Re: Question At 01:35 PM 5/6/2003 -0400, gerry.harter-at-lynchburgva.gov wrote: >John >I have a 1985 Grand Wagoneer (360 cu) that smokes (blueish white) and >actually smokes worse when warmed up. Any idea what this maybe. Any >direction to put me in? I am ready to replace piston rings and gaskets but >I want to make sure what the problem is. Any help would be appreciated. >Thanks. >Gerry Harter >Va How many miles? blueish white could be a head gasket... are there bubbles in your antifreeze or swelling in the hoses? is there water in your oil? I'd run a compression check before doing anything, see if all the cylinders are close to each other. Also, read the plugs and see what they say. It might just be one bank that needs help. It could just be the valve seals, but the fact that it gets worse when it's warmed up makes me think of a head gasket... It could also be something as simple as the intake manifold not tight enough allowing coolant to leak into the intake creating a smoke screen generator. :) Try torquing the intake manifold to spec and seeing if that helps. The 360 is notorious for loose bolts and sensitivity to vacuum leaks, and exhaust leaks, and oil leaks... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 11:04:12 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: RE: Re: Question At 01:47 PM 5/6/2003 -0400, James Isennock wrote: >The biggest leak mine has is all the money leaking out of my wallet. LOL :) >Jay Isennock that's funny... :) Like I ask folks interested in getting a Grand Wagoneer or other FSJ's... 1) are you a mechanic? 2) are you married to a mechanic? 3) are you related to a mechanic? 4) or are you independently wealthy and KNOW a good mechanic? :) john ========================================================================== For Full Size Jeep help see: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech - technical information http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs - pictures of FSJ's http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-list.html - FSJ list on digest.net http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/digests - list digests http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/decal.html - the FSJ logo/stickers more info on other lists, etc. at: http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-info.html ========================================================================== Snohomish, Washington, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... remember, leaving life with out Jesus isn't recommended... ========================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 14:10:03 -0400 From: Tom & Lisa King Subject: Re: fsj: RE: Re: Question LOL!!! yep I just had to rebuild a wiring harness for mine. Junk yard wanted $200.00. So I went to Home Depot and bought some wire and conduit. Tom > > From: john > Date: 2003/05/06 Tue PM 02:04:12 EDT > To: James Isennock , gerry.harter-at-lynchburgva.gov > CC: fsj-at-digest.net, fsjeeps-at-smartgroups.com, FSJparts-at-yahoogroups.com, > FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com > Subject: fsj: RE: Re: Question > > At 01:47 PM 5/6/2003 -0400, James Isennock wrote: > >The biggest leak mine has is all the money leaking out of my wallet. LOL :) > >Jay Isennock > > that's funny... :) > > Like I ask folks interested in getting a Grand Wagoneer or other > FSJ's... > 1) are you a mechanic? > 2) are you married to a mechanic? > 3) are you related to a mechanic? > 4) or are you independently wealthy and KNOW a good mechanic? > > :) > > john > > ========================================================================== > For Full Size Jeep help see: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech - technical information > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs - pictures of FSJ's > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-list.html - FSJ list on digest.net > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/digests - list digests > http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/decal.html - the FSJ logo/stickers > more info on other lists, etc. at: > http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-info.html > ========================================================================== > Snohomish, Washington, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > remember, leaving life with out Jesus isn't recommended... > ========================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 11:08:57 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Question At 01:54 PM 5/6/2003 -0400, gerry.harter-at-lynchburgva.gov wrote: >Thanks John for the quick reply.... >It has 180,000 miles (and no it is not time to get rid of it). Can't say I >noticed bubbles or water in oil. We did note the compression on one of the >cylinders is considerably lower than the others. The same cylinder had a >fouled plug. All others looked good. ok... how was it fouled? what color? It could be one of two things in that cylinder... head gasket blown there, or a cracked ring... the blueish white smoke indicates to me that it could be the head gasket leaking into that cylinder... problem is if it's been doing it for a while it could have eroded the cylinder walls a bit... it's a bigger problem on a Diesel then a gas engine, but still... water doesn't compress very well. :) >It sounds like based on your opinion that piston rings and gaskets should >cover >the problem (especially for the one cylinder) . I was going to replace >head gasket >as well. Will check manifold. Thanks for help. well, a rebuild will certainly solve the problem, and at 180k it's time anyway. as long as you have to go in and open up the patient, do it right. ;) You might consider having the transmission touched up a bit at the same time... and look at the chain in the xfr case... and check those ujoints and bearings... >PS: It looks like you share in my two love affairs as well, jeeps and >Jesus..... right on. :) I have a couple others too... UNIX and Diesel Benz's... ;) happy wrenching. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 14:24:42 -0400 From: "George Milam" Subject: fsj: Surround Molding Does anybody know where I can get the woodgrain surround molding that goes on the right front fender? I ruined mine in an accident and the dealer & body shop say that it is no longer in production & that they can't source it. Thanks, George Milam '89 GW "Moose" VT - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "James Isennock" ; Cc: ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 2:04 PM Subject: fsj: RE: Re: Question > At 01:47 PM 5/6/2003 -0400, James Isennock wrote: > >The biggest leak mine has is all the money leaking out of my wallet. LOL :) > >Jay Isennock > > that's funny... :) > > Like I ask folks interested in getting a Grand Wagoneer or other > FSJ's... > 1) are you a mechanic? > 2) are you married to a mechanic? > 3) are you related to a mechanic? > 4) or are you independently wealthy and KNOW a good mechanic? > > :) > > john > > ========================================================================== > For Full Size Jeep help see: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech - technical information > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs - pictures of FSJ's > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-list.html - FSJ list on digest.net > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/digests - list digests > http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/decal.html - the FSJ logo/stickers > more info on other lists, etc. at: > http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-info.html > ========================================================================== > Snohomish, Washington, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > remember, leaving life with out Jesus isn't recommended... > ========================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 12:26:24 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Question At 03:22 PM 5/6/2003 -0400, gerry.harter-at-lynchburgva.gov wrote: >Not to beat a dead horse as I know we are all busy, but the plug was black >with crud on it. I do appreciate your help and expertise. that would indicate to me that the rings are bad and you're fouling with oil and that the blueish smoke is from oil... john ========================================================================== For Full Size Jeep help see: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech - technical information http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs - pictures of FSJ's http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-list.html - FSJ list on digest.net http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/digests - list digests http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/decal.html - the FSJ logo/stickers more info on other lists, etc. at: http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-info.html ========================================================================== Snohomish, Washington, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... remember, leaving life with out Jesus isn't recommended... ========================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 07:58:48 -0700 From: "Dalan Hawker" Subject: fsj: Tailgate Window issue. Rear window was working great. Lowered it to do some work in the back then no worky. Seems to be lower on one side than the other (not level in tailgate). The motor tried to lift it but it seems to be stuck in the down position. It moves about an inch then hangs. Anybody know how to fix it? Dalan 87' Grand Wagoneer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 09:26:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Loxtercamp Subject: Re: fsj: Tailgate Window issue. First thing to do is to remove the access panel (after removing the carpeting on the tailgate). What probably happened, is that the spring clip popped off and the window frame has come off the regulator. The regulator has ~3/8" pins that ride in the frame...then receive the spring clip to hold the frame to the regulator. The spring clips are available from the dealer. Greg - --- Dalan Hawker wrote: > Rear window was working great. Lowered it to do some work in the > back then no > worky. Seems to be lower on one side than the other (not level in > tailgate). > The motor tried to lift it but it seems to be stuck in the down > position. It > moves about an inch then hangs. Anybody know how to fix it? > > Dalan > 87' Grand Wagoneer __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 09:29:38 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Tailgate Window issue. had a similar problem... solved it for good by buying a J10. ;) could be that one clip fell off on the track, or the guide is bad, the material collapses and blocks the track... :( john At 07:58 AM 5/7/2003 -0700, Dalan Hawker wrote: >Rear window was working great. Lowered it to do some work in the back then no >worky. Seems to be lower on one side than the other (not level in tailgate). >The motor tried to lift it but it seems to be stuck in the down position. It >moves about an inch then hangs. Anybody know how to fix it? > >Dalan >87' Grand Wagoneer - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 11:39:50 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: steering wheel parts Anybody have a parts rig with a couple small steering wheel parts in it? I need the spring that goes around the center shaft, probably right below the retaining plate, and the C-clip that goes just over the retaining plate to hold it down on the spring. It's for a '74 Wagoneer. People here said they're GM columns and should be able to use parts from GM cars, like Novas, in the '73 range. I've checked local junkyards, a GM dealer, and parts stores; they either don't have the parts listed that far back or simply can't get small parts like that. (And the junkyard doesn't have any from those years.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reality can be a drag, but it's the only place that you can get a good steak. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 10:20:22 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: crazy thought... 3.0L TD into J10? Since SuperDawg ('83 J10 Stepside) is still in a number of pieces and I may have located a possible 3.0L Turbo Diesel that is running (should be rebuilt), and I've always wanted a Diesel Full Size Jeep... Would a 1984 3.0L Mercedes Benz Turbo Diesel engine actually push a 1983 J10 stepside with 4.10 gears and 235's... and how hard would it be to mate the Benz 3.0L engine to the Aisin Warner 4speed Automatic normally found in a 1996 Jeep Cherokee? Or would it mate to the old T-5 that came in my J10? (prefer an Automatic and don't want the mercedes AT, prefer to leave Rube Goldberg setups off of SuperDawg. ;) Already spent money building a custom adapter to mate the AW4 to the NP219, so sticking with the AW4 is the best plan... ENGINE SPECS - MISC ENGINE Specs year - engine - HP -at- rpm - torque -at- rpm - -------------------------------------- 83 - J10 4.2L - 115 hp -at- 3,200 - 210 ft lbs -at- 1,800 <-- current 96 - XJ 4.0L - 185 hp -at- 4,600 - 220 ft lbs -at- 2,400 <-- superdawg current plan 83 - 300SD 3.0L - 125 hp -at- 4,350 - 170 ft lbs -at- 2,400 (TURBO) From the specs the stock engine had 115hp/210fts of torque, the 3.0L TD has 10 more hp, but about 40 less ft lbs of torque... Of course the 4.0L that I have seems to offer so much more in the way of power... BUT, if SuperDawg at the Turbo Diesel with the Aisin Warner 4 speed automatic and the gearing/tires I've selected he should get over 20mpg in town and offer acceptable performance for Seattle area traffic... :) Thoughts? Remember I'm driving a 190D with a 2.2L right now and find it acceptable... would like more power, but where would I go with it anyway? I'd just get to the traffic bottlenecks faster... ;) 85 - 190D 2.2L - 72 hp -at- 4,200 - 96 ft lbs -at- 2,800 (normally aspirated) - daily driver now... ;) john meister - ----------------------------------------------------- http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - - 67 J100 Panel (SJ) - 83 J10 Stepside - superdawg (SJ) - 99 grand cherokee (WJ) (for sale) - '87 Cherokee (XJ) (243,000 miles) '75 J10 trailer http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/J10-trailer/ '85 190D http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/190D/ john-at-wagoneers.com jesus, don't leave life without him, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 10:56:26 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: xj: Re: crazy thought... 3.0L TD into J10? At 01:40 PM 5/7/2003 -0400, Don Hansen wrote: >I'm sure it'll push it,but if the Diesel Benz's I've been behind are any >indication, it'll push it SLOWLY! In Seattle if you're doing the speed limit you're lucky... :) There are very few places where acceleration is needed or able to be used. :( I can get around fine with the little 190D. But I'm not sure I want to give up the zip of a good 4.0L in my J10 yet... it's a tough call... economy or mediocre performance... I'm not trying to build a racer, if I were I'd gone for the 4.7L v8 out of a Wj (major bucks though. :( The 4.0L in the 4,100lb J10 isn't going to be all that zippy... won't be bad with the 4.10 gears, but still... guess we'll see... The 4.0L should be a good compromise, but if I sacrificed a bit of performance for the Turbo Diesel's economy... problem is fitting the Benz 3.0L to the AW4... john >----- Original Message ----- >From: "john" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 1:20 PM >Subject: xj: crazy thought... 3.0L TD into J10? > > > > Since SuperDawg ('83 J10 Stepside) is still in a number of pieces > > and I may have located a possible 3.0L Turbo Diesel that is running > > (should be rebuilt), and I've always wanted a Diesel Full Size Jeep... > > > > Would a 1984 3.0L Mercedes Benz Turbo Diesel engine actually > > push a 1983 J10 stepside with 4.10 gears and 235's... and how > > hard would it be to mate the Benz 3.0L engine to the Aisin Warner > > 4speed Automatic normally found in a 1996 Jeep Cherokee? Or would > > it mate to the old T-5 that came in my J10? (prefer an Automatic > > and don't want the mercedes AT, prefer to leave Rube Goldberg setups > > off of SuperDawg. ;) Already spent money building a custom adapter > > to mate the AW4 to the NP219, so sticking with the AW4 is the best > > plan... > > > > ENGINE SPECS - MISC > > ENGINE Specs > > year - engine - HP -at- rpm - torque -at- rpm > > -------------------------------------- > > 83 - J10 4.2L - 115 hp -at- 3,200 - 210 ft lbs -at- 1,800 <-- current > > 96 - XJ 4.0L - 185 hp -at- 4,600 - 220 ft lbs -at- 2,400 <-- superdawg >current > > plan > > 83 - 300SD 3.0L - 125 hp -at- 4,350 - 170 ft lbs -at- 2,400 (TURBO) > > > > > > From the specs the stock engine had 115hp/210fts of torque, the 3.0L TD > > has 10 more hp, but about 40 less ft lbs of torque... Of course the 4.0L >that > > I have seems to offer so much more in the way of power... > > > > BUT, if SuperDawg at the Turbo Diesel with the Aisin Warner 4 speed >automatic > > and the gearing/tires I've selected he should get over 20mpg in town and >offer > > acceptable performance for Seattle area traffic... :) > > > > Thoughts? > > > > Remember I'm driving a 190D with a 2.2L right now and find it >acceptable... > > would like more power, but where would I go with it anyway? > > I'd just get to the traffic bottlenecks faster... ;) > > > > 85 - 190D 2.2L - 72 hp -at- 4,200 - 96 ft lbs -at- 2,800 (normally aspirated) > > - daily driver now... ;) > > > > john meister > > > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html > > - 67 J100 Panel (SJ) - 83 J10 Stepside - superdawg (SJ) > > - 99 grand cherokee (WJ) (for sale) - '87 Cherokee (XJ) (243,000 >miles) > > '75 J10 trailer http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/J10-trailer/ > > '85 190D http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/190D/ > > john-at-wagoneers.com > > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > ----------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1923 **************************