From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sat Jun 7 12:17:48 2003 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Saturday, June 7 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1944 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: early '70's wag vent shades fit 89GW doors? fsj: 300CD - some assembly required... other stuff... Re: fsj: early '70's wag vent shades fit 89GW doors? fsj: not this Washingtonian's desire... Re: fsj: Re: RE: AW-4 tranny kit fsj: non-starter fsj: Re: JEEP Comanche needed!! fsj: Re: Rear spring help fsj: Re: RE: AW-4 tranny kit fsj: Re: Problems with AMC BID Ignition FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:58:58 -0500 From: "Randy Thomas" Subject: fsj: early '70's wag vent shades fit 89GW doors? Will vent shades from a early '70's wag fit my 89 GW doors? Thanks. R. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:00:44 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: 300CD - some assembly required... other stuff... I've got this '80 300CD sitting in my carport... I just got a job that starts on Monday... don't have the time (or skills to make it 100%). I can get it running and legal, should be safe to drive anywhere... I ran into a snag with the hood... the '79 240D hood seems to have different hinges... will measure and adapt if it isn't too severe. The car has just over 200k on it, 3.0L/AT, overall in nice condition, but does need TLC to make 100%, my wife told me (along with most of my friends) to keep the '85 190D... so, for a change I'm listening to the sage advice of countless folks... ;) This '80 300CD is a sweet machine... but it needs more then I can give it right now... Other then the hood situation I can't see where this thing wouldn't make a cross country jaunt... I'll even throw in some duct tape and bailing wire to secure the hood... ;) Anyway, I can have the mechanical part taken care of in another 4 to 6 hours, the fine work can be done anywhere, anytime... I need to clean up my shop/carport and office... I'm into it just over $1,200 right now... also have a bunch of xj and sj parts available, along with some 35x12.5 tires on six lug rims ($500) and a couple of free TH400/QT combos. :) Also have three sets of rims, 1 complete steel xj, 2 complete steel sj, one set of chrome spoke (rusted) with 235/75 r15 studded snows) beautiful day for a drive to Snohomish, Washington... mold is at an all time low today as we break records, could see 90 today... all this sunshine is making traffic miserable, come early... stay late, bring a big truck, cash, check, paypal or swap stuff... ;) also have two Sun Sparc Classic with a bunch of accessories and maybe a pc or two I'll sell cheap... plenty of technical books too... :) later, john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:05:06 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: early '70's wag vent shades fit 89GW doors? At 12:58 PM 6/6/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Will vent shades from a early '70's wag fit my 89 GW doors? >Thanks. >R. should... the doors are the same, some changes in hinges/latches over the years, but glass is the same size... :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:54:39 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: not this Washingtonian's desire... typical liberal politicians... this is NOT the desire of mine, or most of my friends... I want to be be able to access our beautiful countryside. They keep gating off the forest service roads... :( john Lawmakers Want Road Building Ban to be Law Two members of Washington's congressional delegation want to make permanent a rule halting road building in 60 million acres of national forest. Seattle Representative Jay Inslee and Senator Maria Cantwell say making the Clinton-era roadless rule into law is necessary to protect it from an onslaught of legal challenges. The rule banned new road construction on 2 million acres on currently roadless national forest land in Washington state. The rule has faced legal challenges, mainly from timber industry officials who say, among other things, it was poorly crafted. http://netscape.digitalcity.com/seattle/news/article.adp?article=1308049&_dci_e_t=incoming&_dci_a_l=my%2enetscape%2ecom%2findex2%2epsp%3fcp%3dmyfresh ==================================================================== If it exhibits ambulatory and auditory characteristics consistent with current data on a small waterfowl with flat bill, short neck and webbed feet, it would be illogical to assume that it is anything other than a duck. However, in this era of post-modern license with basic linguistic commodities, our view is only relative and if we say we know the truth, we will be labeled a hateful, narrow-minded, intolerant bigot. So a duck is only a duck when you embrace his world view, otherwise, it's just a bunch of funny looking parts. john-at- http://wagoneers.com ''De Ominibus Dubitantum.'' Doubt everything. (except for one thing... ) ==================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:16:26 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: RE: AW-4 tranny kit A: Actually, Aisin-Warner is an American/Japanese co-owned corporation under license to Borg Warner. The other thing is that the AW4 does NOT have a valve body like American cars! It's all solenoid operated by the computer under the dash (John should have remembered that!) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: RE: AW-4 tranny kit After having a few "american" transmissions, I really don't care if the AW4 is a toyota trans or not... I've got one out in the drive with 243,000 original miles that still pulls my trailer without complaint... The chrysler torqueflites I've had in my full size jeeps were lucky if they made it to 80,000 miles, the TH400's seemed to a little bit longer... but nothing has gone over 150,000 miles without a problem that was "american". john At 04:32 PM 6/5/2003 -0500, Mike wrote: >john wrote: >: Subject: [strokers] AW-4 tranny kit >: >: http://www.levelten.com/store/index.htm >: >: Contacted them about a rebuild kit for the jeep and this >: was the response I had received from them. >: >: >: Dear Sir, >: We do offer a pts high performance kit that will >: handle up to 750 ft pounds and deliver more power to the >: wheels, It will come with the high perf. clutches, heat >: treated steels, all seals, gaskets, o rings... >: pts kit $606! >: >: Mike >: Green/Gold Cherokee >: '93 Country 2 door > >I browsed their site and bsed on the fact the AW4 is *basically* a Toyota RWD >trans they may also have the valve body available. I don't know if I would >swallow the 600 for the hp kit plus another 700 for the valve body. > >My biggest gripe with the AW4 has always been that the toyota parts cost alot >more than if it was an American trans. Just look at the NSS for an AW4 is >200+ >and an NSS for a ZJ or YJ is <100 > >Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 10:37:39 -0700 From: Tesar Landon-r16884 Subject: fsj: non-starter Jeff, I'll give it a shot. I drove the GW today. starter relay setup is definitely different. If I get a chance I'll send you a pic, but expect text sooner. - - Landon '89 GW Fairly stock starter circuit ======================== Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:46:01 -0700 From: "Faith Jeff" Subject: fsj: stupid alarm! i want to fire up the rebuilt! hello folks- i've hit a snag with rebuilding my 90 gw...i'm ready to turn it over and have been fighting with the newly discovered po's alarm. i've removed all of it out that i can find, and reconnected all the stuff it was spliced into underneath the dash... but i still have a problem in the area of the starter relay...more ugly spliced wires come off it than is in my "wiring diagrams" (term used loosely to describe the haynes/chiltons i have at home). i've started tracing wires...still have a few wires to keep tracing that don't look right...fun fun fun. so does anyone know how the starter relay is supposed to look like / connect-to in a 90 gw? can anyone with a 89-90 or 91 take a digital pic of theirs for me? thanks, jeff so-cal ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 23:12:52 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Re: JEEP Comanche needed!! Sold mine, but maybe someone else on the XJ list knows? From: Joe Subject: JEEP Comanche needed!! To: mail-at-amc-list.com Hi All , Does anyone know of a nice Comanche pickup for sale near Illinois?? A very good friend is looking for a Comanche truck. He prefers 4.0/5-speed trans/4x4/longbed...BUT will respond to any .....if the body is good/runs well!! PLEASE no rotted floors!! Please advise me of JEEP lists/websites..etc...Please respond to me directly also. As always...THANKYOU very much!!..Lets get my buddy a NICE truck!! ....joe Jim Blair, Seattle, WA '84 J10 Black Jack, '86 Comanche 4x4 _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 11:07:13 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: Rear spring help Replying to a multitude of posts... So what you're saying is that even if I'm using a leaf from a set of old and possibly saggy springs, by using a leaf from the front pack, which would have had a greater spring rate anyway, I can still boost the rear a little bit? I'm only looking for an inch or two. I've used an abrasive blade in a circular saw with great success. Years ago I had a pickup bed that I was replacing due to rust. When I was done with it I cut it lengthwise into 3 pieces and took it to the dump in the new bed. Ben >Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 10:57:14 -0700 >From: "Jim B" > >A: My reasons for using an old main leaf with the eyes cut off (besides the >cheap factor) is that you nearly double the strength of the main leaf w/o >changing the ride much. They have the same flex rate of the ones you have now, >so they are already broken in. I wouldn't use any that were bent tho. > > >Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 13:53:32 -0700 >From: john > >the idea of using the main spring is pretty good, that's what >I do... I take the 2nd spring from the front and put it in the >back, nothing to cut (when you heat a spring it looses properties >that you want... ;)... a long add-a-leaf is the next (or best) best >thing... > > >Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 00:36:40 -0700 >From: "Jim B" > >A: You don't use a torch to cut the springs! Use an old Skilsaw and a metal >cutting abrasive blade (My sons and I chopped up an entire bus with my old saw >that I used after to do the remodel on my house! It finally died when someone >forgot to loop the cord over the peak of the roof, and it skittered to it's >death from 30 feet up on concrete!) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 10:48:02 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Re: RE: AW-4 tranny kit A: Tired this AM, so I can't recall any big caveats, except the following: You MAY need to add a spacer between trans and transfercase (easiest done by chopping down a 727 adapter sleeve, then having a machine shop level it off to 7/8" thick) All '91 and up XJ 6 cyl trans SHOULD be 23 spline (AW4 auto and AX-15 std overdrives), but if a PO swapped the motor, they may have swapped the whole drivetrain. (same goes for someone with a blown transfercase. 21 spline versions are MUCH cheaper here!) Now for the fun part: You need to use the 6 cyl AW4 flexplate and starter, and have the AW4 flexplate balanced to work with the 360 motor (take the shop your current flexplate and let them know you need the same weight offset) The crank sleeve should only be on TH400 motors, BUT the early motors with the Uni-pattern TH400 (used till '73) may have no sleeve because they were adapted to the TH400 with a spacer (I'll find out once I pull mine out to put a 4.0L in) The TH400 and 727 flexplates sit too deep to use with an AW4 trans and will punch out the trans front pump (2 people found this the hard way, so you don't have to! ). Ditto the starter for length. You won't need the crank position sensor on the bellhousing with the V8 (and if you did, the notches on the flexplate are wrong for a V8 anyway) If someone plans to bolt a 258 to the AW4 trans, it will work fine with the EFI by putting all the 4.0L externals on. (I definitely suggest using the 4.0L head and exhaust though! Even on a stock 258, the 4.0L exhaust header will net about 15HP extra) I can't recall the exact length of the 727 compared to the AW4, but I do recall the AW4 was 2.5" longer (John posted our original measurements someplace on http://wagoneers.com ) As for driveshafts, that depends on whether your rig is lifted at all. If you lift at the same time, you will need a front shaft (longer), but if you don't, the rear will need swapping at the same time (shorter of course!) On a Wag, the rear match is easily found by getting the rear shaft from a 6 cyl, 727/999, NP208 which is exactly 2" shorter than a V8, 727, NP219/229/228 shaft. (I discovered this when I was looking for a rear shaft for Elmo, my '83 Cherokee 4 dr with the 258/999/NP208 combo and measured the '84 GW 360/727/NP229 rear shaft against it) You will need to hook up the AW4 shift computer and it's harness (the XJ EFI wiring diagram is posted on the Strokers site along with the AW4 manual) and then attach the TVS cable to the throttlebody or carb. (kind of like the TH350 shift cable, except this controls a variable resistance control instead of the valve body) PS: The AW4 has no real valvebody to speak of (unlike American trans) as it is all electric solenoids controlled by the computer, which relies on sensor inputs. You may need a VSS sensor to go on the transfercase where the speedo cable plugs it for proper shifting. (without the computer, the AW4 can still be manually shifted. Frank Swygert, of AIM magazine, built his own little shift controller for his Stroker powered Rambler with an AW4 and posted that info on the Strokers site as well at http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/strokers He used a 2WD Jeep auto trans for the Rambler conversion) I'm including several lists in this reply as someone else may be wanting this info. From: "Ray Drouillard" Subject: Re: RE: AW-4 tranny kit Cool! It looks like I'll be able to go with that. I'm going to check with my favorite mechanic and see if he can get me one. Maybe I'll check with one of the tranny shops that are trustworthy around here. What are the caveats on this one? Am I going to need to add or subtract spacers between the tranny and t-case? Do all 1991+ AW4s on 4WD XJs work? Am I going to have to add or remove a bushing in the end of the crank shaft? (I remember some issue like that with a TH400 swap, or something like that) What do I use for a torque converter -- the one from my TF727, the one from the AW4, or some special order hybrid? Or, will I have to drill some extra holes in the flex plate? What is the length of my original TF727, and what is the size of an AW4? Will I be able to swap this thing without goofing with my driveshafts? Ray Drouillard ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 11:07:43 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Re: Problems with AMC BID Ignition A: If you go over to HEI, then get the Zack HEIsey unit, as it's built by a fellow FSJ'er and list member, plus I haven't heard of any probs with the unit's people have bought so far. Haven't done it myself (but then I'm not running a V8) From: jonzl1-at-unm.edu Subject: Re: Problems with AMC BID Ignition Thanks Jim. I will make a trip back to Checker and see if they can get me the right part. Ugh hopefully this will solve my problems, I really dont want to shell out the cash for an MSD box. And if this doenst work I dont see any other option. Either that or a complete all in one from Proformance Distributors. They adapt a custom complete dynoed GM HEI distributor for your AMC engine. we will see... Jon ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1944 **************************