From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Apr 23 20:40:09 2004 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Saturday, April 24 2004 Volume 01 : Number 2141 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: [db] question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) fsj: Re: [db] Anyone want to buy a car like John's? Re: fsj: Re: Re: Interior Ideas... Re: fsj: Re: Re: Interior Ideas... fsj: body mounts Re: fsj: body mounts Re: fsj: body mounts Re: fsj: body mounts Re: fsj: Re: Re: Interior Ideas... fsj: Re: [db] question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:54:52 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) dude! you rock! this is the kind of techno babble I love... :) You're right about the ponies... my buddy road in my '88 xj and when we pulled out onto the street he immediately stated how much power it had... the specs on the 4.0L in the jeep is at least 5hp more... the weight of the rover is close to 5,000lbs!!! the xj, around 3,800. I also started checking the specs on the WJ vs the Rover... they are very closely matched in features... reliability, as per alldata, 99 notices on the rover, 145 on the WJ. If my buddy comes down a lot more in price I might bite... I was initially thinking of selling shadowfax to make it happen, but with fuel prices the way they are that wouldn't be a bright thing to do. :) I noticed that when comparing details on the '99WJ and '98 Range Rover, that the prices on the WJ might be lower and within reach even to someone without a real day job.;) not sure if this link will work, but it compares the two. http://www.carsdirect.com/research/compareresults?cat=0&acodes=USA80LRS021A0,USA90JES052B0 MSRP * $56,300 (in 1998) / $34,190 (in 1999) Invoice * $49,825 (in 1998) / $30,817 (in 1999) Used Car Trade In $13,297 - $16,492 / $8,280 - $11,587 Used Car Private Seller $14,775 - $18,325 / $9,200 - $12,875 Used Car Dealer Retail $17,575 - $21,500 / $11,375 - $15,425 Engine 4.0L V-8 190HP / Standard: 4.0L I-6 195HP Available: 4.7L V-8 235HP Transmission 4-spd auto / w/OD 4-spd auto w/OD Fuel Economy City 13.0 mpg 16.0 mpg Fuel Economy Highway 17.0 mpg 21.0 mpg The mileage, weight and good old American Jeep brand is keeping me on track, thanx to your outstanding analysis... If my buddy really drops the price I might go for it and drive it a few years... my buddy has more toys then most boys... single doctor... with excellent tastes... now, if I can just end up with his plane at a bargain when he gets tired of it. :) The ONLY reason I'd consider THIS Range Rover is he's had it since new, has it loaded with extras and has taken superb care of it... he's spent more on accessories for this thing then I did for my very reliable/economical '87 XJ. :) Actually, he's spent at least 4 times what my XJ cost me... Ya gotta love those XJs... Oh well, this was and is a nice little side adventure... dreaming, learning, sharing wheeled info... bottom line appears that Jeeps rule... and an XJ with a Mercedes Diesel would be a sweet setup... too bad my buddy didn't buy the Diesel version of the Rover... ;) I'll be looking forward to hearing input from others... you guys are a great bunch, thanx! BTW, I'm flying into NYC Sunday... flying home Friday, anyone in the big apple? I'll be staying at the Mayfair New York Hotel 242 WEST 49TH STREET - I should be able to get on line there... they have telephones there, right? ;) the hotel doesn't have high speed internet though, it's a real issue going to these uncivilized locations... (in the middle of missouri I had high speed connections... ;) standing by for more info... john On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >-->On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 03:49:48PM -0700, john wrote: >-->> A good friend of mine offered his '98 Range Rover 4.0L V8 >-->> with 68,000 miles on it to me today. He bought it new and >-->> has taken incredible care of it. I've driven it before and >-->> we all drove up to BC with it... quiet, smooth, wonderful... >-->> controls are a bit odd though... took me a long time to figure >-->> out how to open windows and such... (guess I'll need to RTM, eh?) >--> >-->That is my favorite series of Range Rover, and one of these days, I >-->hope to have space in the stable for such a steed. But, I have other >-->daily drivers, other trucks, other 4x4s, so if it pisses me off, it >-->sits until we are on speaking terms. >--> >-->> It's tempting... Need to replace the '99 WJ we sold last >-->> year, but I know little about the Land/Range Rovers. Well, I >-->> know that the V8 is a derivative of the Buick Aluminum V8 >-->> from the early '60's... They seem to have a following... >-->> I just never went down that path... mainly been SJ,XJ,WJ >-->> and Diesel Benz kind of guy... ;) >--> >-->It is far removed from the old starfire 215 v8. The 98, even >-->though it also displaces 3.9 liters like the older rover engines, >-->is distributorless and heavily computerized. Rovers off road are >-->famous for getting dust in the idle control so that they idle at >-->somewhere around 1600 rpm or so until you've shot it with WD-40. >-->It is still all aluminum, and any of the sensors going out can >-->have you hunting for a new head/block/engine/etc when you blow >-->a head gasket. >--> >-->> This will be my wife's vehicle. It has to be reliable. >-->> Economy isn't as critical (it's rated 14/17, but I think >-->> switching it over to amsoil synthetics throughout should >-->> get it to at least 20mpg on the freeway if I keep my >-->> foot out of the injectors. :) My WJ went from 18 to 21... >--> >-->Dream on. That 4.0L v8 is extremely underpowered for that heavy of >-->a vehicle. Range rovers are tankers - they easily weigh as much as >-->my 77 6.6L cherokee. Your 300D will blow the doors off it out of >-->the hole, and it will struggle to keep up with your two bazillion >-->original mile 87 XJ. But, it has class that is undeniable. The 14/17 >-->rating for mileage was extremely optimistic. >--> >-->> Would really appreciate input, comments, sarcasism, humor, >-->> votes of confidence, warnings to run for cover, horror stories, >-->> and so on... I know that an older WJ Grand Cherokee will have >-->> repair issues too... this Range Rover is perfect. I'm >-->> tempted to not replace a Jeep with a Jeep here folks... (My >-->> J10 might be done this year... ;) So keep me on the straight >-->> and narrow if venturing off is gonna be one of those expensive >-->> nightmares... >--> >-->Okay, here you go. >--> - The power steering box WILL ALWAYS LEAK. They did from the factory. >--> If it doesn't leak now, then either it will tomorrow because someone >--> spent a fortune on it yesterday, or the fluid just isn't hitting the >--> ground yet. >--> - Servicing the transmission needs to be done at the dealer, because >--> you need the special dealer tool to SPREAD THE FRAME APART so the >--> x-member can come out of the way of the pan. >--> - Surprisingly, under the hood is mostly bosch instead of lucas. This >--> means replacement will still be expensive, but won't be near as >--> frequent. >--> - The suspension is air bags, no longer coils. While they are smoother >--> on road, and amazing off road, when they leak, you are in for >--> serious expense. And if the computer controlling the ride height >--> segfaults, you're riding home on the bump stops. And if for some reason >--> the ride height sensor at one of the four corners freaks out or fails, >--> the computer puts its head firmly up its rear and may require expensive >--> (think a couple thousand dollar) replacement. >--> - regardless of the receiver hitch or the use of one as a tow vehicle in >--> "The Horse Whisperer", your XJ probably does better as a tow vehicle in >--> the power department. >--> >-->The transmission (a ZF) is pretty solid, and the transfercase has a >-->viscous coupling, which is a lot nicer than the noisy gear drive >-->one in the discovery. I *THINK* putting it into 4L gives you the >-->option of what would behave like a manual valve body, don't remember when >-->that came into being. Axles are 3.54s, with a dropout third member like >-->a toyota. Transfercase has a 1.21:1 (or so) HIGH range. Low range is >-->somewhere in the threes. Nothing is better than a range rover (for a >-->factory stock vehicle) for crusing down rutted or washboard roads. You >-->will have to learn how to four wheel while hauling ass, drinking tea, and >-->eating crumpets because you can actually get away with it in a range >-->rover :) >--> >-->IMO (which really isn't humble), you may be better off finding >-->a WJ. It might be more expensive up front, but >--> - you already like WJs A LOT >--> - your wife already likes WJs >--> - they're not overly maintenance happy like a british vehicle >--> can be >--> - they have better acceleration and mileage >--> - parts and labor are much cheaper on a jeep than a rover. >--> >-->But, if like me you don't care if the car has downtime because you >-->can just drive something else when it is either not reliable enough >-->or too expensive to deal with right now, go for it. They're awesome >-->cars. >--> >-->> My friend has never had a single problem with this thing >-->> and it's got almost 70k on it... I think Rube Goldberg >-->> was on the design team though... I have read articles that >-->> mention that the controls are in Klingon. :) >--> >-->There's some wonkiness, but it isn't too bad. Just incredibly >-->expensive. >--> >-->> What's funny is this thing is a British vehicle, but he's >-->> never had trouble with the electrics when it rains... which >-->> is often... so when did that myth evaporate? :) >--> >-->The car is probably just used to it :) >--> >-->I highly recommend visiting www.rangerovers.net and reading the >-->checklist of what to look for. That will be a second generation, >-->aka "4.0/4.6". That page will also give you an idea of what you >-->are in for. >--> >-->K >--> >-->-- >-->Kevin Pekarek >-->Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and >-->Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) >-->85 190D (601, 5spd) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:06:49 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] Anyone want to buy a car like John's? At 02:00 PM 4/20/2004, Derick wrote: >Ebay number 2473795216 >Looks pretty sweet. >Derick For a couple of brief moments today one could almost have bought my car... was tempted and frustrated at the same time, bad combo... got a relay that's acting up and then my buddy offers me his pristine range rover... but the wisdom of the list, combined with poverty and an understanding that replacing a relay, or even an "expensive" computer module on a Diesel Benz is far, far better then getting a British car... my friends, my wife and the price of fuel all brought me back from the brink... ;) thank you... It was a close call, but the intervention worked... ;) the plan will still be to replace the WJ with a WJ as soon as we can... we'll retire the XJ when the SJ is completed and I'll continue driving the '91 300d at 30 mpg in town, over 37mpg on the freeway... :) now, if my buddy slips a cog or two and drops the offering price down about 3K the temptation will rear it's ugly head again... stand by for further interventions. ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:13:21 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: Interior Ideas... A: I have early '73 Wagoneer bucket seats in my '73 J4000. (Just got home from picking up a '77 Cherokee WT for parts from Whidbey Island. It's my son's birthday tomorrow and it's parts mostly for his '83 rig) '77 has almost the same bucket seats as my '73. From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: Interior Ideas... On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, Neal Hoover wrote: >-->for real? unfortunately... >-->is the reclining deal the only reason they don't work well? or does the >-->seat have to sit up too straight all of the time? it won't go far enough back... even at 5'7" I had the seat against the wall... the GW seats are too thick. >-->btw, what kind of jap seats did you put in? not sure, but they're coming out of superdawg... >-->oh yeah, any pics? yeah, look at the pix of http://wagoneers.com/SuperDawg john Jim Blair, Seattle, WA '84 J10 Black Jack (getting lifted and stroked!), '73 J4000 304/TH400/QT tow truck (it's alive!!), '83 Eagle wagon (soon to be modified!)http://www.virtualjeep.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page ^V FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:28:44 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: Interior Ideas... what kind of shape are they in? surface material? Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Blair" To: Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 4:13 AM Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: Interior Ideas... > A: I have early '73 Wagoneer bucket seats in my '73 J4000. (Just got home > from picking up a '77 Cherokee WT for parts from Whidbey Island. It's my > son's birthday tomorrow and it's parts mostly for his '83 rig) '77 has > almost the same bucket seats as my '73. > > > From: john > Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: Interior Ideas... > > On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, Neal Hoover wrote: > > >-->for real? > > unfortunately... > > >-->is the reclining deal the only reason they don't work well? > or does the > >-->seat have to sit up too straight all of the time? > > it won't go far enough back... even at 5'7" I had the seat > against > the wall... the GW seats are too thick. > > >-->btw, what kind of jap seats did you put in? > > not sure, but they're coming out of superdawg... > > >-->oh yeah, any pics? > > yeah, look at the pix of http://wagoneers.com/SuperDawg > > john /direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:52:19 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: fsj: body mounts anyone know where i can get some new replacement body mounts (i.e.: rubber isloators) and hardware for the cab of my j-truck? btw, i also have a 3" body lift for sale (w/ hardware) if anyone is interested. Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:51:13 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: body mounts I was able to get those from the dealer... crown automotive distributor might be another source, or even jc whitney... john On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, Neal Hoover wrote: >-->anyone know where i can get some new replacement body mounts (i.e.: rubber >-->isloators) and hardware for the cab of my j-truck? >--> >-->btw, i also have a 3" body lift for sale (w/ hardware) if anyone is >-->interested. >--> >-->Neal A. Hoover >-->Project '76 J-10 >-->Project '96 XJ >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:14:26 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: Re: fsj: body mounts thanks! never thought the dealer would still carry those. also can't believe i never thought of JC Whitney! :) Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Neal Hoover" Cc: Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 12:51 PM Subject: Re: fsj: body mounts > I was able to get those from the dealer... > > crown automotive distributor might be another source, > or even jc whitney... > > john > > On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, Neal Hoover wrote: > > >-->anyone know where i can get some new replacement body mounts (i.e.: rubber > >-->isloators) and hardware for the cab of my j-truck? > >--> > >-->btw, i also have a 3" body lift for sale (w/ hardware) if anyone is > >-->interested. > >--> > >-->Neal A. Hoover > >-->Project '76 J-10 > >-->Project '96 XJ > >--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:14:58 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: body mounts On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, Neal Hoover wrote: >-->thanks! >-->never thought the dealer would still carry those. >-->also can't believe i never thought of JC Whitney! :) yep, bought cab mounts from the dealer for superdawg... I'm sure JCW might have some sort of universals that would work, bought my 2" body lift from them... john >--> >-->Neal A. Hoover >-->Project '76 J-10 >-->Project '96 XJ >-->----- Original Message ----- >-->From: "john" >-->To: "Neal Hoover" >-->Cc: >-->Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 12:51 PM >-->Subject: Re: fsj: body mounts >--> >--> >-->> I was able to get those from the dealer... >-->> >-->> crown automotive distributor might be another source, >-->> or even jc whitney... >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, Neal Hoover wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->anyone know where i can get some new replacement body mounts (i.e.: >-->rubber >-->> >-->isloators) and hardware for the cab of my j-truck? >-->> >--> >-->> >-->btw, i also have a 3" body lift for sale (w/ hardware) if anyone is >-->> >-->interested. >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Neal A. Hoover >-->> >-->Project '76 J-10 >-->> >-->Project '96 XJ >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:53:29 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: Interior Ideas... black leather. Two will be available for recovering soon. (the best are going in mine) I'll send a pic later after I finish fixing my computer. I erased my hard drive and loaded up XP (already regretting it. I had the Blaster worm before I even got online long enough to open 1 email and update my PCCillin! Now I have Worm Nachi.b and agobot.hm to get rid of plus RPC Dcom buffer overflow attacks have been through the roof! Good thing I got my firewall up in time!) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neal Hoover" To: "Jim Blair" ; Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 5:28 AM Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: Interior Ideas... > what kind of shape are they in? surface material? > > Neal A. Hoover > Project '76 J-10 > Project '96 XJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Blair" > To: > Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 4:13 AM > Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: Interior Ideas... > > > > A: I have early '73 Wagoneer bucket seats in my '73 J4000. (Just got > > home > > from picking up a '77 Cherokee WT for parts from Whidbey Island. It's my > > son's birthday tomorrow and it's parts mostly for his '83 rig) '77 has > > almost the same bucket seats as my '73. > > > > > > From: john > > Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: Interior Ideas... > > > > On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, Neal Hoover wrote: > > > > >-->for real? > > > > unfortunately... > > > > >-->is the reclining deal the only reason they don't work well? > > or does the > > >-->seat have to sit up too straight all of the time? > > > > it won't go far enough back... even at 5'7" I had the seat > > against > > the wall... the GW seats are too thick. > > > > >-->btw, what kind of jap seats did you put in? > > > > not sure, but they're coming out of superdawg... > > > > >-->oh yeah, any pics? > > > > yeah, look at the pix of http://wagoneers.com/SuperDawg > > > > john > /direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:27:58 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, Edward Pomeroy wrote: >-->John: >-->I had the pleasure of working with a garage in Auckland NZ that had the >-->Rover brand. The Rang Rover was the biggest single moneymaker for the >-->repair shop. Heads warp, electrics fail constantly (sensors and harness >-->connection points that corrode) and parts cost almost as much if not >-->more the MB bits. Unless you want another project to fill your >-->weekends, I would not recommend owning one for daily use. That said, >-->they sure are fun to drive, when running. >--> >-->Good luck, whatever road you take. my friend has had no trouble whatsoever, and reading reviews it seems like around 70 to 80% see that kind of result... the other 20+% have horrifying experiences... I've heard stories about cars I've owned too... mega miles on them without a hiccup... so if this Rover has seen nearly 70,000 miles trouble free is that a good indication of it's future? Or does it disassemble itself at 80k? ;) >-->BTW - I notice some of the fellows list cars they own (or have owned?). the jag sounds cool... haven't had one of those... I'm so out of control I started a webpage to keep track: http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2141 **************************