From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Apr 25 07:05:22 2004 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Sunday, April 25 2004 Volume 01 : Number 2142 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: [db] question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) fsj: Re: [db] question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) Re: fsj: 4.0 With A Carb Re: fsj: Re: 4.0 With A Carb Re: fsj: Re: 4.0 With A Carb Re: fsj: question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) fsj: parting '77 Cherokee WT fsj: Re: [db] question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) [none] fsj: Re: fsj: Re: Re: FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:39:56 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, Jerome Kaidor wrote: >--> >--> ... Okay, let's see John's list. I have plenty of time to read it :) >--> - Jerry Kaidor in living color, for your reading pleasure... (should check to see if it's still current... ;) http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html BTW, anyone insterested in a very nice 1964 Cadillac Sedan de Ville? My son wants to buy my '87 Cherokee (with 249,650 miles) instead of it... he used to gripe about how I had it setup... NOW he thinks what I've done is great and he wants it for down in Arizona. ;) Ah yes, the Air Force is a good thing for this young man... ;) here's a current picture, as it sits on the farm next door: http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/tailfin.jpg Asking $2,500 have the specs somewhere if you're interested... in excellent shape... (they cleaned it up last summer...) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:07:06 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) appreciate the input... it's interesting that the rover has the same wheelbase as the wagoneer... but then again they started the whole thing in response to the wagoneer so it makes sense. ;) have you been up to Evans Creek? Trail 198 is one of my favorites... :) http://www.wagoneers.com/JEEPS/trail-reports/laborday98/john1.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/JEEPS/trail-reports/laborday98/john2.jpg I haven't been up there for a long time... wife won't let me wheel her jeep and my J10 isn't finished and not likely it'll see that trail as it's too long of a wheelbase and will look too nice to introduce it to THAT trail... :) john At 11:35 AM 4/23/2004, BigBdWolf wrote: >John, >Let me first start by saying I love off-roading, and that topic alone is >enough for an entire other mail list... :~) >Second I own a '75 Toyota Lancruiser FJ-40 (the jeep looking one), one >of the Kings of the offroad climbing fanatics. With the stock I6 and >some air lockers, I think it would climb a tree. The V8 guys think >they're the cat's meow, but I like the steady torque of the I6 for >serious offroading. >As for Range Rovers, I have vowed that if I were ever to sell my >cruiser, I would *only* do it to buy 1) Another nicer cruiser, or 2) A >LandRover Defender 90. Yet after reading a bit on that site, >www.rangerovers.net, I might be tempted to test out the Range Rover too. >Seems as though they even beat out a 90 in some offroad mag test cases, >yet retain the classic Rover style and comfort factors. >Now, I can't attest to knowing squat about the mechanical or electrical >reliability of these beasts, but I just thought someone should play >devil's advocate and say that these things are really known for their >abilities and breed, and if you can pick one up for a good price, you >might just make yourself a convert after a few trips to the boonies. God >knows we have enough of those out here to play in! (and yes yes, I know >how much of a Jeep enthusiast you already are :~) > >-Wolf > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:28:37 -0700 (PDT) >From: john >Subject: Re: [db] question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) > >Decided to check on recalls... >only 99 service bulletins... about 20 of those are just >manual updates and misc. non-problem gunk. > http://www.alldata.com/TSB/68/98680708.html > >As a reality check I looked at the '99 WJ (first >year and I had one.. high miles even) > it had 145 bulletins, 2 safety, 1 emission... > http://www.alldata.com/TSB/04/990418EQ.html >looks like most of those are real problems too... > >thanx for the input... this will take some thought... :) >(since we have no money this won't take a lot of thought... ;) > >The Rovers have an american designed V8, a ZF tranny... not sure on the >xfr case, for some reason I have a hunch it's a borg warner - full >time... I have another friend selling an older Rover, also in excellent >condition... > >never really considered these things before... both friends haven't had >any of the problems you described... been searching on the web, have >found a few folks with a very sour experience with these things... but >overall it seems pretty positive... > >research continues... :) > >john > > >On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, Robert Chase wrote: > > >-->John, > >--> > >-->I would suggest avoiding a 1998. Range Rovers are on the same level > > >-->as Volvos and simply love their service appointments at the > >-->dealership. Additionally this vehicle is OBD-II equipped and out of > >-->general prinipal I avoid anything made after 1996 becase of this. I > > >-->have a couple friends with late model Range Rovers. They love their > > >-->cars but admit they are far from being reliable. Check some parts > >-->prices but be sure to be sitting down before you do it. > >--> > >-->If you want a Range Rover try one of the earlier models such as a > >-->early 1990's Country or other older model. An interesting thought. > > >-->The Range Rover's strong point is the coil spring suspension and > >-->chassis. One of its weak points is its electricals and drivetrain. > > >-->I wonder how nice a OM-617 powered Range Rover would be. That my > >-->friend would be a vehicle worthy of a Mercedes Engine. You can get > >-->an older Country for as little as $2500. A wee bit cheaper than > >-->what your friend is probably asking for his 1998. > >--> > >-->Robert Chase > >--> - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:53:36 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: 4.0 With A Carb A: I have a set on an '82 Eagle Serpentine 4.2L I am parting out this week or next. Someone put a 4.0L in or? From: Colucci B Subject: fsj: 4.0 With A Carb greetings To The FSJ & XJ Worlds! A buddy of mine has a problem that maybe one of us old AMC types might have a solution for. He has an 86 AMC Eagle with the 4.0 motor, but it has a 2 barrel carb on it. He needs a new intake manifold for this motor, because his has split into two pieces. So anybody who has one of these intakes in their parts bins let me know what you might want for the thing. Until The Next Dimension, Admiral "Coluch." Starfleet Headquarters Ohio Post ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:56:09 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 4.0 With A Carb A: Not stock, but there are quite a few guys running 4.0L with a carb. Remember that aftermarket intake you had? It was intended for 4.0L carb conversions. YJ got the 4.2L till mid '91. From: john Subject: fsj: Re: 4.0 With A Carb huh? a 4.0 with a carb???? how is that possible... no, it's not... the 4.0 was designed for use w/ fuel injection... they did, however, use the 4.2 in those cars, and the cj's until almost 90... john ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:38:58 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 4.0 With A Carb Actually, it was John who said not possible. I think he was referring to the 4.0L in an Eagle. (I know of 4 but not stock, and 2 have Renix EFI) - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 7:36 AM Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 4.0 With A Carb Hello carnuck-at-hotmail.com (Jim Blair), In reference to your comment: h huh? a 4.0 with a carb???? how is that possible... h no, it's not... h the 4.0 was designed for use w/ fuel injection... Ah come on Anything is posable, the impossible just takes a little longer. I sure would not trade EFI for a Carb if I was off roading though. now if I was drag Racing and the computer for the EFI was to hard to change to run with NOX and a Turbo the Card would be the way to go. Have fun all Bill ========Original Message======== Subj: Re: fsj: Re: 4.0 With A Carb Date: 4/24/2004 2:56:51 AM Mountain Daylight Time From: carnuck-at-hotmail.com (Jim Blair) Sender: owner-fsj-at-digest.net Reply-to: carnuck-at-hotmail.com (Jim Blair) To: fsj-at-digest.net A: Not stock, but there are quite a few guys running 4.0L with a carb. Remember that aftermarket intake you had? It was intended for 4.0L carb conversions. YJ got the 4.2L till mid '91. From: john Subject: fsj: Re: 4.0 With A Carb huh? a 4.0 with a carb???? how is that possible... no, it's not... the 4.0 was designed for use w/ fuel injection... they did, however, use the 4.2 in those cars, and the cj's until almost 90... john - ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-xg04.mx.aol.com (rly-xg04.mail.aol.com [172.20.115.201]) by air-xg04.mail.aol.com (v98.19) with ESMTP id MAILINXG42-469408a2bbe163; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:56:50 -0400 Received: from krusty-motorsports.com (krusty-motorsports.com [192.94.170.8]) by rly-xg04.mx.aol.com (v99.9) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXG49-469408a2bbe163; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:56:30 -0400 Received: from majordomo by krusty-motorsports.com with local (Exim 4.22) id 1BHIxT-0001qJ-Hc for fsj-out-at-digest.net; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:56:23 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [67.5.179.150] X-Originating-Email: [carnuck-at-hotmail.com] X-Sender: carnuck-at-hotmail.com From: "Jim Blair" To: References: Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 4.0 With A Carb Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:56:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:56:09 -0700 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Apr 2004 08:56:11.0516 (UTC) FILETIME=[FDC143C0:01C429D9] Sender: owner-fsj-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Jim Blair" X-AOL-IP: 192.94.170.8 X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:XXX:XX X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 09:37:44 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) A: It wasn't Rube Goldberg (anyone ever google some of his drawings?), but Lucas, the Prince of Darkness and inventor of warm beer that had a hand in that stuff. Total overkill on some of the wiring circuits. Where 2 wires would operate a circuit, they would jam 5 and a relay. From: john Subject: fsj: question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) A good friend of mine offered his '98 Range Rover 4.0L V8 with 68,000 miles on it to me today. He bought it new and has taken incredible care of it. I've driven it before and we all drove up to BC with it... quiet, smooth, wonderful... controls are a bit odd though... took me a long time to figure out how to open windows and such... (guess I'll need to RTM, eh?) It's tempting... Need to replace the '99 WJ we sold last year, but I know little about the Land/Range Rovers. Well, I know that the V8 is a derivative of the Buick Aluminum V8 from the early '60's... They seem to have a following... I just never went down that path... mainly been SJ,XJ,WJ and Diesel Benz kind of guy... ;) This thing is fully loaded... absolutely no problems... only ONE scratch - on the tailgate... ;) The only thing is the color, kind of dark red... (even Edmunds deducts $76 for it... rofl...) Anyway, I'm clueless about Rovers and British vehicles... Need help from my friends on the list(s). This will be my wife's vehicle. It has to be reliable. Economy isn't as critical (it's rated 14/17, but I think switching it over to amsoil synthetics throughout should get it to at least 20mpg on the freeway if I keep my foot out of the injectors. :) My WJ went from 18 to 21... Would really appreciate input, comments, sarcasism, humor, votes of confidence, warnings to run for cover, horror stories, and so on... I know that an older WJ Grand Cherokee will have repair issues too... this Range Rover is perfect. I'm tempted to not replace a Jeep with a Jeep here folks... (My J10 might be done this year... ;) So keep me on the straight and narrow if venturing off is gonna be one of those expensive nightmares... My friend has never had a single problem with this thing and it's got almost 70k on it... I think Rube Goldberg was on the design team though... I have read articles that mention that the controls are in Klingon. :) What's funny is this thing is a British vehicle, but he's never had trouble with the electrics when it rains... which is often... so when did that myth evaporate? :) later, john ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 10:47:35 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: parting '77 Cherokee WT I picked up a red Cherokee WT (already partially dismantled) for parts for my son's '83. It has black interior that's not too bad. (door panels may end up on Black Jack and the rest need cleaning) Rear flares are rotted out and so is the rear crossbar and tailgate. Front fenders are gone as well as motor/trans/tcase. We are grabbing the springs for my son's rig (which is getting a Mopar 360/727 only cuz I already own it. I still need a core Jeep 727 output shaft) Still for sale: Axles D44 front and rear 3.07 ratio $400 the pair obo. (they will be already out and ready to go this week sometime) Inner fenderwells (V8) wiring harness? (it was a driver, but I didn't drive it) steering box $50 steering column (black non-tilt off a 4 speed) $40 tail lights (maybe. My son has first dibbs. He may chop the back of his shorter as it's going to be an offroad buggy) My mind is blank on anything else at the moment. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 14:00:46 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) On Sat, 24 Apr 2004, Edward Pomeroy wrote: >-->I tip my hat and bow my head, now that is a *true* believer in old iron >-->and skinned knuckles! >-->Edward right on... my hands bear the marks of years of wrenchin'... but since I started using rubber gloves in the early '80's at least they ain't all greasy no mo'. :) heading out to work on my '91 300D... electrical issues... and run over to the farm next door to fire up the '64 Sedan De Ville, my wife said her Jeep is NOT for sale... ;) john >--> >-->john wrote: >--> >-->>On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, Edward Pomeroy wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->>>-->John: >-->>>-->I had the pleasure of working with a garage in Auckland NZ that had the >-->>>-->Rover brand. The Rang Rover was the biggest single moneymaker for the >-->>>-->repair shop. Heads warp, electrics fail constantly (sensors and harness >-->>>-->connection points that corrode) and parts cost almost as much if not >-->>>-->more the MB bits. Unless you want another project to fill your >-->>>-->weekends, I would not recommend owning one for daily use. That said, >-->>>-->they sure are fun to drive, when running. >-->>>--> >-->>>-->Good luck, whatever road you take. >-->>> >-->>> >-->> >-->>my friend has had no trouble whatsoever, and reading reviews it seems >-->>like around 70 to 80% see that kind of result... the other 20+% >-->>have horrifying experiences... I've heard stories about cars I've owned >-->>too... mega miles on them without a hiccup... so if this Rover has >-->>seen nearly 70,000 miles trouble free is that a good indication of >-->>it's future? Or does it disassemble itself at 80k? ;) >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->>>-->BTW - I notice some of the fellows list cars they own (or have owned?). >-->>> >-->>> >-->> >-->>the jag sounds cool... haven't had one of those... >-->> >-->>I'm so out of control I started a webpage to keep track: >-->>http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html >-->> >-->>:) >-->>john >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:34:52 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [none] 1996 Dodge 2500 - 5.9L Cummins TD. 140,000 miles... needs brakes and washing... winch not included... :) Neighbor's going to let me buy it for trade-in, whatever the dealer offers, somewhere in the $6k area... Does this sound like a good deal? I'm wondering if the '99 WJ leather heated seats will fit w/o too much modification, it should be pretty close to the same size... I'm thinking rather then trying to finish building my custom pickup for economy, will just buy one, put SuperDawg back together without all the extra cab customizations and the 4.0L so it'll go together quicker, then sell the Benz maybe... or the J10 if it's not to my wife's liking... not sure what to do. All I know is I NEED a reliable vehicle now and it's looking like my J10 won't be together until at least this fall... :( Thoughts on the Cummins in the Dodge? I like the color scheme, GREEN and SILVER with a light gray interior... :) pix at: http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/Dodge/ john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:55:49 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: On Sat, 24 Apr 2004, Robert Chase wrote: >-->John, >--> >-->Your 300d that you paid dearly for is suddenly unreliable? >-->Robert Chase well, kinda sorta... mainly because of my own stupidity with the jump start, we're working on it right now... but that's not the whole story... not selling IT, selling the XJ to my son... but I need a truck, economical, and a daily driver... told the wife, then mentioned how easy it would be to hold antiques in the back and she immediately took a liking to it. ;) The 300d will then become hers, so yes, it's still reliable, but it doesn't do a good job of hauling rocks, topsoil and antiques... not to mention servers... ;) john >--> >--> >-->john wrote: >--> >-->>1996 Dodge 2500 - 5.9L Cummins TD. 140,000 miles... needs >-->>brakes and washing... winch not included... :) >-->> >-->>Neighbor's going to let me buy it for trade-in, whatever the dealer >-->>offers, somewhere in the $6k area... >-->> >-->>Does this sound like a good deal? >-->> >-->>I'm wondering if the '99 WJ leather heated seats will fit >-->>w/o too much modification, it should be pretty close to the >-->>same size... >-->> >-->>I'm thinking rather then trying to finish building my custom >-->>pickup for economy, will just buy one, put SuperDawg back together >-->>without all the extra cab customizations and the 4.0L so it'll >-->>go together quicker, then sell the Benz maybe... or the J10 if >-->>it's not to my wife's liking... not sure what to do. >-->> >-->>All I know is I NEED a reliable vehicle now and it's looking like >-->>my J10 won't be together until at least this fall... :( >-->> >-->>Thoughts on the Cummins in the Dodge? I like the color scheme, >-->>GREEN and SILVER with a light gray interior... :) >-->> >-->>pix at: http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/Dodge/ >-->> >-->>john >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 02:35:21 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: A: Should've bought the Commanche I had! I drove it 2 years with only the minorest problems (but I modified it a bit) The guy I sold it to just rolled the odo over to 300,000 miles the other day. Now it has an exhaust leak (from 4 wheeling) and the motor acts funny at the idle. It hunts a bit and sounds like it's going to die, which is probably a bad sensor someplace. Now I am almost finished the '88 Commanche I have (the red one with the American flag headliner) I installed a low mileage 4.0 (110,000 is low for a 4.0L!) It needed a head gasket as the old one was starting to weep a bit. Now it's getting an AW4 automatic and I'm looking to buy a NP208J to put behind it. (truck was 2WD and I converted to 4WD with a 4 1/2" front lift and Cherokee rear axle SOA with 3.73 gears) If my wife decides she doesn't like it well enough to get rid of her Subaru, then it'll be up for sale (to pay some bills) I'll be into it for nearly $2,000 when I'm done! It's getting 33" tires as well. (I still have to get the column shifter from the wrecking yard) Maybe I need to assemble the parts I have for a stroker 4.6L and put that in to boost the value even more! On Sat, 24 Apr 2004, Robert Chase wrote: >-->John, >--> >-->Your 300d that you paid dearly for is suddenly unreliable? >-->Robert Chase well, kinda sorta... mainly because of my own stupidity with the jump start, we're working on it right now... but that's not the whole story... not selling IT, selling the XJ to my son... but I need a truck, economical, and a daily driver... told the wife, then mentioned how easy it would be to hold antiques in the back and she immediately took a liking to it. ;) The 300d will then become hers, so yes, it's still reliable, but it doesn't do a good job of hauling rocks, topsoil and antiques... not to mention servers... ;) john ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2142 **************************