fsj-digest Tuesday, November 30 2004 Volume 01 : Number 2314 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Re: Re: [FSJ-XJList] Grand Wagoneer Article - Four Wheeler Jan '05 fsj: ideas for popcorn - walter middy motors... fsj: walter middy garage sale fsj: Re: ideas for popcorn - walter middy motors... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 22:31:23 -0500 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: [FSJ-XJList] Grand Wagoneer Article - Four Wheeler Jan '05 yes, but the way my rig is built, i'd say it takes 1-2k lbs off the overall towing capacity. so, it all evens out in my mind. i'm not sure how this thread started, but if you're still debating putting a 4.0L in your j-truck, then i wouldn't worry about it too much. in fact, why not go ahead and stroke it before dropping it in and you'd be SURE to have a solid power plant in there. Neal A. Hoover (who just got a "new" '00 XJ for the wife's DD!!!) Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Neal Hoover" Cc: "Jim Blair" ; ; "full size jeep list" ; "xj" Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 8:14 PM Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: [FSJ-XJList] Grand Wagoneer Article - Four Wheeler Jan '05 > > makes sense, the xj is rated at 5k pull... > but using it in an FJS already saps 1.5 - 2k of that in > extra weight... > > john > > On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Neal Hoover wrote: > > >-->FWIW, i'm towing 5000 lbs+ almost on a daily basis with my XJ (4.0L is not > >-->stroked). i'm also running 4.56 gears and 35" tires. it does quite well > >-->considering. > >--> > >-->Neal A. Hoover > >-->Project '76 J-10 > >-->Project '96 XJ > >-->http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj > >-->----- Original Message ----- > >-->From: "Jim Blair" > >-->To: ; "full size jeep list" ; > >-->"xj" > >-->Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 8:40 PM > >-->Subject: fsj: Re: [FSJ-XJList] Grand Wagoneer Article - Four Wheeler Jan '05 > >--> > >--> > >-->> A: I think the 4.0L HO will handle your trailer okay (maybe not as nicely > >-->as > >-->> my stroked 6 will be able to handle loads!) After all, the Mighty Elmo > >-->only > >-->> had an anemic carbed 4.6L (120 HP stock) and even with 30" tires I could > >-->> still haul my 5 ton trailer (IH bus body on a mobile home frame with > >-->tandem > >-->> axles and LOTS of car parts inside) with 2.72 gears, 999 and NP208. Yours > >-->> has much more going for it with 4.10 gears, AW4 auto, and small tires with > >-->> 220HP in front. > >-->> > >-->> > >-->> > >-->> Just finished reading the article "Grand Wagoneer Reborn" in > >-->> the January 2005 issue of Four Wheeler. Nicely done Jim. > >-->> (I'm about halfway through your article "Axles 101") > >-->> > >-->> Question though, you said, "The Grand Wagoneer is often heralded > >-->> as the prototypical SUV. That's an accurate portrayal, though it > >-->> certainly cannot be said it was the first SUV." > >-->> > >-->> You didn't mention what the first "SUV" was. What would that be? :) > >-->> > >-->> Looking back at 4x4 history the only other production 4x4 that > >-->> I can recall was the Suburban, hardly a "SUV" at the time. Unless you're > >-->> thinking the Willys Wagons were... The IH Scout, the Chevy Blazer, > >-->> Ford Bronco and all the other 4x4s all seemed to come out after > >-->> the November 1962 launch of the Jeep Wagoneers and Gladiators. > >-->> > >-->> The Super Wagoneers would qualify as luxury vehicles... > >-->> > >-->> I guess I have trouble with the term "SUV", as do many > >-->> FSJ owners (full size jeep) dislike the term "SUV" because it > >-->> invokes images of poorly designed and executed 4x4s that are > >-->> basically cars tossed on chassis, or worse, pickups with the > >-->> beds replaced with an enclose. A friend who has run several > >-->> GM dealerships brought home a new Blazer 4 door and I was checking > >-->> it out and he readily admitted that it wasn't a Jeep. Designed > >-->> more for heading up skiing than doing anything in the way of > >-->> serious offroading. > >-->> > >-->> Anyway, I like your comment about the Grand Wagoneer being like > >-->> John Wayne in a tux with a six shooter in his belt. I like it. > >-->> > >-->> In fact, the next Wagoneer I have may just acquire the name "the Duke". > >-->:) > >-->> > >-->> I also like the ZJ comment. Never liked those things... although > >-->> the WJ is a winner... I'm on my 2nd now... the WK just doesn't > >-->> do it for me at all, even though it's picked up some of the > >-->> Wagoneer's (SJ) features... spare tire under the back, fuel > >-->> tank on the side... that's about where the similarity ends... it > >-->> does NOT have the visibility, nor does it have the substance. The > >-->> WK does ride nice, is quiet, but it just doesn't feel right. :) > >-->> > >-->> FWIW, my '83 J10 Stepside is still in many pieces, awaiting the 4.0L > >-->> transplant. > >-->> > >-->> After reading your article I'm partially inspired to track down an > >-->> '89 to '91 Grand Wagoneer and drop my 6.2L V8 Diesel into it so I can > >-->> have the visibility and ride AND economy. :) Of course a 4.0L > >-->> might be sufficient for the economy and keep it Jeep. :) > >-->> > >-->> Of course, the question will be, and still is, whether or not a 4.0L > >-->> in an FSJ will pull my J10 trailer: > >-->> http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/J10-trailer/ as it weighs close to 2,000 lbs > >-->> in present form... :) > >-->> > >-->> ttyl, > >-->> john meister > >-->> > >-->> ***fwiw, I used BCC for Jim Allen's email address... so if > >-->> you reply it'll be going to the FSJ list only...*** > >--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:10:51 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: ideas for popcorn - walter middy motors... you know it's probably not a good thing leaving me unsupervised in a vehicle for an hour and a half to two hours every day... too much time to think. ;) Ok, the half-baked ideas previously posted have seen the light of day and the lunacy revealed (ok, it is a full moon ya know. ;) I'm wondering what would be better to pursue (read: dream about): a 6.2L/700r4 Grand Wagoneer (know of a late 70... ;) or a 3.0LTD/AW4 XJ (Cherokee) the idea is economy, 4wd, daily driver capable of towing my trailer... either rig has to be nice and clean... Putting the '77 300cd on the GMC chassis just doesn't seem right... fixing up the Jimmy and driving it doesn't appeal to me either... too big, same reason I got rid of my last one... ok rigs otherwise... The 6.2L isn't the best Diesel ever made, but they're decent. The 3.0L Turbo Diesel in the Benz is a decent engine as well and should propel an XJ within reason if I can mate it to the AW4. Of course there are issues to deal with... both the 3.0L and 6.2L I have now would need to be rebuild or freshened up a bit and are in vehicles that have value as runners... not to mention the amount of time and effort involved in swapping them... time and money, are bitter foes. :) (In fact, the '77 300CD, '83 300D and even the '83 GMC Jimmy are for sale...) This Diesel Jeep idea is more of a long term project... perhaps just another Walter Middy motor adventure. :) If my wife thought my J10 were "more practical" I'd probably put the 6.2L in there instead of the 4.0L... actually... maybe I should open that idea up again... I've got a buyer for the GMC chassis... (actually two possibly). My J10 is a truck and a 6.2L in it would fit and be nice. We have the WJ that's "practical" and the '91 300D for nice trips... The J10 has what I want for a daily driver and we'll see 20mpg easliy with it... plus the brute force for towing. The 4.0L is a sweet motor but just a wee undersized for the J10... even though the J10 came with a wimpier 4.2L... the mileage estimated could be upper teens to low 20's... I KNOW the 6.2L will fit and get that easy, in a bigger box it does 20mpg... I think the worst I ever got with my other Jimmy was 18. where's the popcorn? too much time on the freeway... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 11:34:59 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: walter middy garage sale talked to the wife about car insurance a bit ago... I think we need to trim the fleet a wee bit... :) (of course that's been the plan all along... :) Been trying to figure out a cost effective solution... engine swaps, body swaps... all great ideas, until you consider the cost of parts and the amount of time it takes... Anywya, my wife and I agree that towing my J10 trailer with her WJ is simply NOT a good idea, but she did agree to allowing her WJ to tow a light trailer. A friend has one he bought at Costco... will check it out... :) So the plan is to get the engine fan and a hitch for her WJ and sell the J10 hydraulic dump trailer... I love the trailer, it's super solid and functional. A masterpiece of engineering and design, but a bit overbuilt for hauling barkdust... it needs a home where it can be used to it's full capabilities. :) So, we'll keep the '99 WJ, '91 300D and the '83 J10 stepside... get a light trailer and continue with the 4.0L conversion on the J10. That means the following are for sale: - ---------------------------------------- '75 J10 hydraulic dump trailer with original Jeep canopy, tool box battery, disc brakes controlled by surge brake. Crosses the scales at 1,990 lbs. 30x9.5 BFG tires on six lug rims on a Model 20 axle fitted with SJ disc brakes, no ring gear. The design permitted the reuse of the axle if needed, and uses the same brake parts as a J10. The hydraulic dump assembly could be moved off of the trailer or the box replaced with another. Well balanced and easy to tow... '77 300CD - needs transmission and tlc, too nice to part, restorable gathering needed parts... this is a project... '83 300D - it's running now, but the engine is not 100%, willing to take offers, body is straight and clean, all glass and interior excellent. We're continuing with repairs... an engine rebuild would be the quickest solution... only 137,000 original miles... '83 GMC Jimmy - 6.2L Diesel, runs good, body rust free but has a few dings. needs A/C compressor. Have original window sticker, receiver hitches front and rear, two sets of tires for it. Enjoy this rig, excellent economy... but it's not a Jeep. ;) Will deliver the J10 trailer or Jimmy within a couple hours drive, provided of course the J10 sells before the Jimmy. ;) if you're interested contact me off list... thanx, walter, er... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:58:09 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: ideas for popcorn - walter middy motors... Back to the "how do we cool this heavy thing?" land again so soon? I've been doing some research on Toyota motors for doing an XJ conversion. 2L-T seems to be the choice so far. (that's what the one I recently missed out on for $500 was) I just found http://toyotadieselmadness.com/ for some ideas to peruse. (still need to test the diesel to gas automatic trans conversion ideas) you know it's probably not a good thing leaving me unsupervised in a vehicle for an hour and a half to two hours every day... too much time to think. ;) Ok, the half-baked ideas previously posted have seen the light of day and the lunacy revealed (ok, it is a full moon ya know. ;) I'm wondering what would be better to pursue (read: dream about): a 6.2L/700r4 Grand Wagoneer (know of a late 70... ;) or a 3.0LTD/AW4 XJ (Cherokee) the idea is economy, 4wd, daily driver capable of towing my trailer... either rig has to be nice and clean... Putting the '77 300cd on the GMC chassis just doesn't seem right... fixing up the Jimmy and driving it doesn't appeal to me either... too big, same reason I got rid of my last one... ok rigs otherwise... The 6.2L isn't the best Diesel ever made, but they're decent. The 3.0L Turbo Diesel in the Benz is a decent engine as well and should propel an XJ within reason if I can mate it to the AW4. Of course there are issues to deal with... both the 3.0L and 6.2L I have now would need to be rebuild or freshened up a bit and are in vehicles that have value as runners... not to mention the amount of time and effort involved in swapping them... time and money, are bitter foes. :) (In fact, the '77 300CD, '83 300D and even the '83 GMC Jimmy are for sale...) This Diesel Jeep idea is more of a long term project... perhaps just another Walter Middy motor adventure. :) If my wife thought my J10 were "more practical" I'd probably put the 6.2L in there instead of the 4.0L... actually... maybe I should open that idea up again... I've got a buyer for the GMC chassis... (actually two possibly). My J10 is a truck and a 6.2L in it would fit and be nice. We have the WJ that's "practical" and the '91 300D for nice trips... The J10 has what I want for a daily driver and we'll see 20mpg easliy with it... plus the brute force for towing. The 4.0L is a sweet motor but just a wee undersized for the J10... even though the J10 came with a wimpier 4.2L... the mileage estimated could be upper teens to low 20's... I KNOW the 6.2L will fit and get that easy, in a bigger box it does 20mpg... I think the worst I ever got with my other Jimmy was 18. where's the popcorn? too much time on the freeway... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2314 **************************