From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Feb 16 16:36:07 2005 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, February 16 2005 Volume 01 : Number 2367 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: springs Re: fsj: springs fsj: shackle reversal fsj: OT transmission (fwd) fsj: Re: OT transmission (fwd) fsj: Re: shackle reversal Re: fsj: Re: OT transmission (fwd) Re: fsj: Re: shackle reversal Re: fsj: Re: OT transmission (fwd) fsj: Dana 44 Question Re: fsj: shackle reversal Re: fsj: Re: OT transmission (fwd) Re: fsj: Dana 44 Question FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:03:07 -0500 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: Re: fsj: springs oh, no. not at all. i'm not sure if it's still this way or not, but Brent (-at- BJ's) used to sell Rusty's spring packs for FSJs. Brent may have a different supplier now, don't really know. i've purchased other things off of Brent, and he's fine to deal with. i just don't like Crusty. can't trust him, shipping is pitiful, .... ah - i''ll stop there. has anyone here used the BDS spring packs? Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Bahm" To: "Neal Hoover" Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 1:13 AM Subject: RE: fsj: springs > So "Rusty" and BJ's Offroad are the same thing? I'm in the same boat as > you, I've got an 83 J20 I'm going to lift after the engine rebuild. I'm not > super concerned about a smooth ride, I just want to do the job right, and I > want to deal with suppliers I can trust. Custom springs for the old boat > seems like too much trouble to me. > > Kevin > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Neal > Hoover > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:44 PM > To: Kevin Pekarek; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: fsj: springs > > i refuse to ever do business with Crusty again. i dealt with him long > before he got into FSJ parts and had my fill. i hate to trash anyone on a > public forum, you struck a cord my mentioning his name. no way no how will > i ever buy stuff from him again. > *ahem* > no that that's over, what do you suggest for custom springs? i guess you'd > have to tell them the spring rate you want and the specific arch, right? i > haven't done enough homework to get that far, and doubt that i would be able > to considering how full my plate is and will be for a while. > any raw numbers you might suggest to start with? > thanks. > > Neal A. Hoover > Project '76 J-10 > Project '96 XJ > http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kevin Pekarek" > To: "Neal Hoover" > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 9:24 PM > Subject: Re: fsj: springs > > > > On Tue, Feb 15, 2005 at 07:01:21AM -0500, Neal Hoover wrote: > > > ok, i'm sure this is a very dead horse on many boards, but what > suspension > > > system out there gives the best ride at around 4"-6" of lift? i've come > to > > > the realization that my j-truck project is in need of 4 new springs. > > > cheapest place to buy? > > > thanks much. > > > > You can check out BJ's offroad for the rusty lifts, but I agree with > > John on the custom spring route. Production lift kits tend to ride rather > > rough, and for about the same amount of money, you can get a custom lift. > > > > I'm torn with what to do with the 74 cherokee. I want to lift it a couple > of > > inches and run 31s (running 29s now with about an 1.5-2" of sag), and > haven't > > decided whether I want to take a trip to San Diego to get some custom > springs > > made for it, or just get the 2" lift kit and be done with it. I really > like > > that jeep, it's about time I spent some time on it. 377k on factory stock > > springs is a bit much. :) > > > > K > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/05 > > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/05 > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/05 > > - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/05 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:17:01 -0500 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: Re: fsj: springs > A:Are BJ's sets Rusty's? at least they used to be. > I'm looking to do business for some adjustable > upper control arms on my Comanche. DON'T get crusty's arms. i used to run his upper and lower adjustable arms on my XJ. hate 'em. the ACME threads he uses have way too much tolerance in them so they like to clunk and rattle around a lot. the poly bushings wore out in less than one year's time. they are nice and cheap, tho (for a reason). actually, i'm still running his lower adjustable arms. that's only because i'm waiting to fab up a long-arm conversion, but can't get to it right now because of my j-truck project! ;) i'd suggest going with Teraflex's adjustable uppers. nice units. Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Blair" To: "Neal Hoover" ; "1L" Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 3:17 AM Subject: Re: fsj: springs > > A:Are BJ's sets Rusty's? I'm looking to do business for some adjustable > upper control arms on my Comanche. I'd look into Skyjacker's softride 4" > lift or talk to spring companies. > > > i refuse to ever do business with Crusty again. i dealt with him long > before he got into FSJ parts and had my fill. i hate to trash anyone on a > public forum, you struck a cord my mentioning his name. no way no how will > i ever buy stuff from him again. > *ahem* > no that that's over, what do you suggest for custom springs? i guess you'd > have to tell them the spring rate you want and the specific arch, right? i > haven't done enough homework to get that far, and doubt that i would be able > to considering how full my plate is and will be for a while. > any raw numbers you might suggest to start with? > thanks. > > Neal A. Hoover > Project '76 J-10 > Project '96 XJ > http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kevin Pekarek" > To: "Neal Hoover" > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 9:24 PM > Subject: Re: fsj: springs > > > > On Tue, Feb 15, 2005 at 07:01:21AM -0500, Neal Hoover wrote: > > > ok, i'm sure this is a very dead horse on many boards, but what > suspension > > > system out there gives the best ride at around 4"-6" of lift? i've come > to > > > the realization that my j-truck project is in need of 4 new springs. > > > cheapest place to buy? > > > thanks much. > > > > You can check out BJ's offroad for the rusty lifts, but I agree with > > John on the custom spring route. Production lift kits tend to ride rather > > rough, and for about the same amount of money, you can get a custom lift. > > > > I'm torn with what to do with the 74 cherokee. I want to lift it a couple > of > > inches and run 31s (running 29s now with about an 1.5-2" of sag), and > haven't > > decided whether I want to take a trip to San Diego to get some custom > springs > > made for it, or just get the 2" lift kit and be done with it. I really > like > > that jeep, it's about time I spent some time on it. 377k on factory stock > > springs is a bit much. :) > > > > K > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/05 > > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/05 > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/05 > > - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/05 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:57:36 -0500 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: fsj: shackle reversal has anyone done a *front* shackle reversal on their FSJ? i figured that while i was replacing my springs all the way around, i might as well improve the ride and handling further by doing a front shackle reversal while i was at it. thoughts? Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/05 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:21:05 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: fsj: OT transmission (fwd) my son is building a 460 V8 (ford) powered Javelin down in Tucson... since he's only an airman his salary is somewhat limited... so he's looking at getting a manual transmission instead of building up a AT... his question is below, (he's already talking about putting a Mercedes Diesel into it after he's driven the 460 for awhile... :) later, john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Meister Mark C Amn I think I'm going to go manual tranny for the car. It would simplify a couple of things in the build. Also I'll probably have to rebuild any used auto I find and I'll definitely have to put a shift kit in it, and after all that expense I figure I'll have spent a little more than just getting a mediocre manual from a junkyard. With the exception of the toploader, I don't know of a single manual that will bolt up to the 385 block. Can you ask some people what transmissions will bolt up to the 460? I don't care how many speeds they are, synchro or not, truck or car, just as long as it can handle my estimated 275 HP and 350 ft/lbs of torque. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:39:35 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: OT transmission (fwd) The problem is any 4 speed strong enough to stand behind a 460 is going to cost beaucoup bucks. If he runs a truck 4 speed, he won't be happy (I tried one in my '66 Fairlane with a 428 sideoiler. Not impressed) I ended up with a 4 speed (which was really a T150 3 speed with an overdrive attached) and that cost me $800! There are lots of C6 trannies around for cheap. I have an E4OD in my '91 E350 with 460 and I'll probably be pulling it out (not liking to rebuild it at -at-$1200 if the computer isn't bad) and replacing it with a C6. I found one in Arlington with a Motorhome body attached for free, but lack time to drag it home and scrap it out. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:42:48 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: shackle reversal I wouldn't. If you mean SOA, then that's a different story! Use stock springs and get -at-7" of lift in front! has anyone done a *front* shackle reversal on their FSJ? i figured that while i was replacing my springs all the way around, i might as well improve the ride and handling further by doing a front shackle reversal while i was at it. thoughts? Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:03:50 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Seevers Subject: Re: fsj: Re: OT transmission (fwd) I would hafta agree with Jim. A truck 4 speed would be a very unsatisfactory combo in a car. The T150 that Jim mentions is a pretty darn good 3 speed trans, and is known for its strength. It was used in Jeeps as well as ford cars, pickups, broncos, and vans. Matched with an overdrive, it could be a cool combo. Ford also used several variants of the T176/T177/T178 transmission. This is a 4 speed without a granny low. Its biggest drawback is it uses a cast aluminum housing, but not the thin ribbed housings of other aluminum housed transmissions. The case is pretty robust, but not as strong as cast iron. The ford versions came in several flavors -- a normal 4 spd with a 1:1 direct 4th gear and also an overdrive version with an overdriven 4th. I don't know how this transmission would hold up behind a 460. it was used in ford cars, pickups, brocos and vans. The ford T150s and T170s all had the normal ford butterfly bolt pattern and a 6.5" input shaft stickout. I don't know if the 460 uses that pattern or not. Its pretty easy to check, but also check the size of the input bearing retainer, as it must fit into the bellhousing, and there are different sizes. The Ford T150s and T170s are mostely, if not all, side loaders. The transmissions I talk about above are pretty easy to find in the wrecking yards, and are pretty cheap. At least here in the USA. If your son is in Germany, well, I have no idea. Also, there are probably other transmissions that may be a better choice. But when you get into true car 4 spds, like the BW T10s and such, they get a lot harder to find and the price starts to climb. - -brad - --- Jim Blair wrote: > The problem is any 4 speed strong enough to stand > behind a 460 is going to > cost beaucoup bucks. If he runs a truck 4 speed, he > won't be happy (I tried > one in my '66 Fairlane with a 428 sideoiler. Not > impressed) I ended up with > a 4 speed (which was really a T150 3 speed with an > overdrive attached) and > that cost me $800! There are lots of C6 trannies > around for cheap. I have an > E4OD in my '91 E350 with 460 and I'll probably be > pulling it out (not liking > to rebuild it at -at-$1200 if the computer isn't bad) > and replacing it with a > C6. I found one in Arlington with a Motorhome body > attached for free, but > lack time to drag it home and scrap it out. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:06:02 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Seevers Subject: Re: fsj: Re: shackle reversal A spring over with stock springs will probably give you the best ride too, because the flatter the springs are, the better the ride. Of course, that doesn't help you in the back much, because the springs are already over. - --- Jim Blair wrote: > I wouldn't. If you mean SOA, then that's a > different story! Use stock > springs and get -at-7" of lift in front! > > > has anyone done a *front* shackle reversal on their > FSJ? i figured that > while i was replacing my springs all the way around, > i might as well improve > the ride and handling further by doing a front > shackle reversal while i was > at it. > thoughts? > > Neal A. Hoover > Project '76 J-10 > Project '96 XJ > http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:18:59 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: OT transmission (fwd) thanx for the info! btw, he's in Tucson... Arizona. ;) john On Wed, 16 Feb 2005, Brad Seevers wrote: >-->I would hafta agree with Jim. A truck 4 speed would >-->be a very unsatisfactory combo in a car. The T150 >-->that Jim mentions is a pretty darn good 3 speed trans, >-->and is known for its strength. It was used in Jeeps >-->as well as ford cars, pickups, broncos, and vans. >-->Matched with an overdrive, it could be a cool combo. >--> >-->Ford also used several variants of the T176/T177/T178 >-->transmission. This is a 4 speed without a granny low. >-->Its biggest drawback is it uses a cast aluminum >-->housing, but not the thin ribbed housings of other >-->aluminum housed transmissions. The case is pretty >-->robust, but not as strong as cast iron. The ford >-->versions came in several flavors -- a normal 4 spd >-->with a 1:1 direct 4th gear and also an overdrive >-->version with an overdriven 4th. I don't know how this >-->transmission would hold up behind a 460. it was used >-->in ford cars, pickups, brocos and vans. >--> >-->The ford T150s and T170s all had the normal ford >-->butterfly bolt pattern and a 6.5" input shaft >-->stickout. I don't know if the 460 uses that pattern >-->or not. Its pretty easy to check, but also check the >-->size of the input bearing retainer, as it must fit >-->into the bellhousing, and there are different sizes. >--> >-->The Ford T150s and T170s are mostely, if not all, side >-->loaders. >--> >-->The transmissions I talk about above are pretty easy >-->to find in the wrecking yards, and are pretty cheap. >-->At least here in the USA. If your son is in Germany, >-->well, I have no idea. >--> >-->Also, there are probably other transmissions that may >-->be a better choice. But when you get into true car 4 >-->spds, like the BW T10s and such, they get a lot harder >-->to find and the price starts to climb. >--> >-->-brad >--> >-->--- Jim Blair wrote: >--> >-->> The problem is any 4 speed strong enough to stand >-->> behind a 460 is going to >-->> cost beaucoup bucks. If he runs a truck 4 speed, he >-->> won't be happy (I tried >-->> one in my '66 Fairlane with a 428 sideoiler. Not >-->> impressed) I ended up with >-->> a 4 speed (which was really a T150 3 speed with an >-->> overdrive attached) and >-->> that cost me $800! There are lots of C6 trannies >-->> around for cheap. I have an >-->> E4OD in my '91 E350 with 460 and I'll probably be >-->> pulling it out (not liking >-->> to rebuild it at -at-$1200 if the computer isn't bad) >-->> and replacing it with a >-->> C6. I found one in Arlington with a Motorhome body >-->> attached for free, but >-->> lack time to drag it home and scrap it out. >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:25:37 -0800 From: "Dalan Hawker" Subject: fsj: Dana 44 Question I have a '87 Wagoneer with Dana 44's front and rear, I was wondering if anyone can tell me what the sline count is on the axles? I am too lazy to pull an axle and have a look. I am wanting to buy a Powertrax unit for it so I need to know. Thanks. Dalan Hawker ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:00:23 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: fsj: shackle reversal On Wed, Feb 16, 2005 at 07:57:36AM -0500, Neal Hoover wrote: > has anyone done a *front* shackle reversal on their FSJ? i figured that > while i was replacing my springs all the way around, i might as well improve > the ride and handling further by doing a front shackle reversal while i was > at it. > thoughts? Part of the reason SJs wheel so much better than chevies is the shackle design. Shackle reversals will make it so you can't do any better than a K-5 off road. Like Jim said, it you want to lift the thing anyways, do an SOA in the front, which (depending on your springs) will give you anywhere between a 4-7" lift. Using the stock springs (or even stock WT springs) will give you a better ride than any lift kit out there. For the rear, you could use a block to give you the extra lift and still use the stock rpings. If the back rode too harsh empty, you could install goodrich velvet-ride shackles. A friend of a friend lifted his 89 grand wagoneer with nothing more than SOA front and a block in the rear because he wanted to keep the factory ride. It really was one sweet riding rig, even with the 33x12.5 muds and locker in the back. K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:31:50 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Seevers Subject: Re: fsj: Re: OT transmission (fwd) Lucky guy! Wish I was! Parts shouldn't be a prob at all then. > thanx for the info! btw, > he's in Tucson... Arizona. ;) > > john > > On Wed, 16 Feb 2005, Brad Seevers wrote: > > >-->I would hafta agree with Jim. A truck 4 speed > would > >-->be a very unsatisfactory combo in a car. The > T150 > >-->that Jim mentions is a pretty darn good 3 speed > trans, > >-->and is known for its strength. It was used in > Jeeps > >-->as well as ford cars, pickups, broncos, and > vans. > >-->Matched with an overdrive, it could be a cool > combo. > >--> > >-->Ford also used several variants of the > T176/T177/T178 > >-->transmission. This is a 4 speed without a granny > low. > >-->Its biggest drawback is it uses a cast aluminum > >-->housing, but not the thin ribbed housings of > other > >-->aluminum housed transmissions. The case is > pretty > >-->robust, but not as strong as cast iron. The > ford > >-->versions came in several flavors -- a normal 4 > spd > >-->with a 1:1 direct 4th gear and also an overdrive > >-->version with an overdriven 4th. I don't know > how this > >-->transmission would hold up behind a 460. it was > used > >-->in ford cars, pickups, brocos and vans. > >--> > >-->The ford T150s and T170s all had the normal ford > >-->butterfly bolt pattern and a 6.5" input shaft > >-->stickout. I don't know if the 460 uses that > pattern > >-->or not. Its pretty easy to check, but also > check the > >-->size of the input bearing retainer, as it must > fit > >-->into the bellhousing, and there are different > sizes. > >--> > >-->The Ford T150s and T170s are mostely, if not > all, side > >-->loaders. > >--> > >-->The transmissions I talk about above are pretty > easy > >-->to find in the wrecking yards, and are pretty > cheap. > >-->At least here in the USA. If your son is in > Germany, > >-->well, I have no idea. > >--> > >-->Also, there are probably other transmissions > that may > >-->be a better choice. But when you get into true > car 4 > >-->spds, like the BW T10s and such, they get a lot > harder > >-->to find and the price starts to climb. > >--> > >-->-brad > >--> > >-->--- Jim Blair wrote: > >--> > >-->> The problem is any 4 speed strong enough to > stand > >-->> behind a 460 is going to > >-->> cost beaucoup bucks. If he runs a truck 4 > speed, he > >-->> won't be happy (I tried > >-->> one in my '66 Fairlane with a 428 sideoiler. > Not > >-->> impressed) I ended up with > >-->> a 4 speed (which was really a T150 3 speed > with an > >-->> overdrive attached) and > >-->> that cost me $800! There are lots of C6 > trannies > >-->> around for cheap. I have an > >-->> E4OD in my '91 E350 with 460 and I'll probably > be > >-->> pulling it out (not liking > >-->> to rebuild it at -at-$1200 if the computer isn't > bad) > >-->> and replacing it with a > >-->> C6. I found one in Arlington with a Motorhome > body > >-->> attached for free, but > >-->> lack time to drag it home and scrap it out. > >--> > > ---- > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** > http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't > rust, they mold. > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- All your favorites on one personal page ^V Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:33:30 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Seevers Subject: Re: fsj: Dana 44 Question I think you mean spline count! I must really be aging, cuz I'm starting to forget this stuff. I think it is 30. - -brad - --- Dalan Hawker wrote: > I have a '87 Wagoneer with Dana 44's front and rear, > I was wondering if > anyone can tell me what the sline count is on the > axles? I am too lazy > to pull an axle and have a look. I am wanting to > buy a Powertrax unit > for it so I need to know. Thanks. > > Dalan Hawker Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2367 **************************