From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Mar 21 17:40:36 2005 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, March 21 2005 Volume 01 : Number 2391 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: More engine issues....:-( help please fsj: Re: [FSJ-List] More engine issues....:-( help please fsj: RE: Re: [FSJ-List] More engine issues....:-( help please fsj: RE: RE: Re: [FSJ-List] More engine issues....:-( help please Re: fsj: More engine issues....:-( help please fsj: RE: RE: RE: Re: [FSJ-List] More engine issues....:-( help please [FSJ-List] Re: fsj: More engine issues....:-( help please Re: fsj: RE: Re: [FSJ-List] More engine issues....:-( help please Re: fsj: RE: Re: [FSJ-List] More engine issues....:-( help please FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 14:19:46 -0700 From: Matt Subject: fsj: More engine issues....:-( help please Ok my engine was running strong but failed emissions it did stumble when cold off idle if i punched the throttle. Now i have replaced the air filter changed the oil and replaced the CTO that was bad and causing my air injection system to not work. I want to give emissions a try but now that i have done all this the engine backfires if i floor it from idle also if i am driving and punch it the same thing happens "boom" here the backfire up in the bay and engine almost dies. What gives... It does happen less when warm but still. This is on an 86 gw with the 360 and mc 2150. Any help Thanks, Matt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 14:44:40 -0700 From: Matt Subject: fsj: Re: [FSJ-List] More engine issues....:-( help please Well the engine has about 50k on it dont think the chain has been done since it was replaced. all the vac lines where replaced a little before i bought it so i just double checked everything was pluged in where it should be and left it be "they look new" . I can say the engine runs Much stronger when cold now that i hooked up the new CTO could it be advancing the ignition to much? I heard the vacume advance was riged to the cto and that it bumped up the timing to help with cold preformance but i might be way off :) Thanks, Matt On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:48:25 -0600, Roland Hughes wrote: > How many miles since the motor last had a timing chain installed? It > sounds like your timing is way out of whack. Did you happen to replace > any vacumm lines while putting in the CTO? > > Roland > > > Matt wrote: > > >Ok my engine was running strong but failed emissions it did stumble > >when cold off idle if i punched the throttle. Now i have replaced the > >air filter changed the oil and replaced the CTO that was bad and > >causing my air injection system to not work. I want to give emissions > >a try but now that i have done all this the engine backfires if i > >floor it from idle also if i am driving and punch it the same thing > >happens "boom" here the backfire up in the bay and engine almost dies. > >What gives... It does happen less when warm but still. > > > >This is on an 86 gw with the 360 and mc 2150. > > > > > >Any help > > > >Thanks, > >Matt > > > > > > > >To post message: FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com > >To subscribe: FSJ-List-subscribe-at-yahoogroups.com > >Moderator: FSJ-List-owner-at-yahoogroups.com > >IFSJ Page: http://www.ifsja.org > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To post message: FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com > To subscribe: FSJ-List-subscribe-at-yahoogroups.com > Moderator: FSJ-List-owner-at-yahoogroups.com > IFSJ Page: http://www.ifsja.org > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > ________________________________ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FSJ-List/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > FSJ-List-unsubscribe-at-yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 14:58:50 -0700 From: Tesar Landon-r16884 Subject: fsj: RE: Re: [FSJ-List] More engine issues....:-( help please Backfire and ping are about a way lean mixture, you may want to adjust the accelerator pump for a bit more fuel. Thing is though, when you 'punch it', this is a drop in vacuum, and should bring the advance back towards zero, so should mask the problem of lean, I suggest connecting a vacuum guage inline with the vacuum advance, and monitoring. It may be that your vacuum advance is connected to the manifold vacuum rather than to a carburetor 'port'ed vacuum. Should be, looking at the front of the carb, a port to the lower right of the front of the carb. (vehicle stage left) - - Landon No Jeep (though I looked at a Comanche 2WD, it was auto, so no go, $1688 here in Austin, but I'm SURE they'd take less) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 3:45 PM To: FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com; fsj-at-digest.net Subject: fsj: Re: [FSJ-List] More engine issues....:-( help please Well the engine has about 50k on it dont think the chain has been done since it was replaced. all the vac lines where replaced a little before i bought it so i just double checked everything was pluged in where it should be and left it be "they look new" . I can say the engine runs Much stronger when cold now that i hooked up the new CTO could it be advancing the ignition to much? I heard the vacume advance was riged to the cto and that it bumped up the timing to help with cold preformance but i might be way off :) Thanks, Matt On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:48:25 -0600, Roland Hughes wrote: > How many miles since the motor last had a timing chain installed? It > sounds like your timing is way out of whack. Did you happen to replace > any vacumm lines while putting in the CTO? > > Roland > > > Matt wrote: > > >Ok my engine was running strong but failed emissions it did stumble > >when cold off idle if i punched the throttle. Now i have replaced the > >air filter changed the oil and replaced the CTO that was bad and > >causing my air injection system to not work. I want to give emissions > >a try but now that i have done all this the engine backfires if i > >floor it from idle also if i am driving and punch it the same thing > >happens "boom" here the backfire up in the bay and engine almost dies. > >What gives... It does happen less when warm but still. > > > >This is on an 86 gw with the 360 and mc 2150. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 17:09:06 -0500 From: "Watry, Andrew (LNG-SFR)" Subject: fsj: RE: RE: Re: [FSJ-List] More engine issues....:-( help please Backfire can also be way-retarded spark. I adjusted mine once retarded enough to stop pinging and it started popping vacuum hoses off. There is also non-vacuum advance on some of these Jeeps. On my 85 Calif. GW with 360 and Motorcraft dist, you get a fair amount of advance with the vacuum line totally removed. Is it computerized advance, or mechanical by weights? Andrew - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Tesar Landon-r16884 Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 1:59 PM To: 'fsj-at-digest.net' Subject: fsj: RE: Re: [FSJ-List] More engine issues....:-( help please Backfire and ping are about a way lean mixture, you may want to adjust the accelerator pump for a bit more fuel. Thing is though, when you 'punch it', this is a drop in vacuum, and should bring the advance back towards zero, so should mask the problem of lean, I suggest connecting a vacuum guage inline with the vacuum advance, and monitoring. It may be that your vacuum advance is connected to the manifold vacuum rather than to a carburetor 'port'ed vacuum. Should be, looking at the front of the carb, a port to the lower right of the front of the carb. (vehicle stage left) - - Landon No Jeep (though I looked at a Comanche 2WD, it was auto, so no go, $1688 here in Austin, but I'm SURE they'd take less) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 3:45 PM To: FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com; fsj-at-digest.net Subject: fsj: Re: [FSJ-List] More engine issues....:-( help please Well the engine has about 50k on it dont think the chain has been done since it was replaced. all the vac lines where replaced a little before i bought it so i just double checked everything was pluged in where it should be and left it be "they look new" . I can say the engine runs Much stronger when cold now that i hooked up the new CTO could it be advancing the ignition to much? I heard the vacume advance was riged to the cto and that it bumped up the timing to help with cold preformance but i might be way off :) Thanks, Matt On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:48:25 -0600, Roland Hughes wrote: > How many miles since the motor last had a timing chain installed? It > sounds like your timing is way out of whack. Did you happen to replace > any vacumm lines while putting in the CTO? > > Roland > > > Matt wrote: > > >Ok my engine was running strong but failed emissions it did stumble > >when cold off idle if i punched the throttle. Now i have replaced the > >air filter changed the oil and replaced the CTO that was bad and > >causing my air injection system to not work. I want to give emissions > >a try but now that i have done all this the engine backfires if i > >floor it from idle also if i am driving and punch it the same thing > >happens "boom" here the backfire up in the bay and engine almost > >dies. What gives... It does happen less when warm but still. > > > >This is on an 86 gw with the 360 and mc 2150. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 17:25:31 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: More engine issues....:-( help please check your timing, it may be too advanced. john On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Matt wrote: >-->Ok my engine was running strong but failed emissions it did stumble >-->when cold off idle if i punched the throttle. Now i have replaced the >-->air filter changed the oil and replaced the CTO that was bad and >-->causing my air injection system to not work. I want to give emissions >-->a try but now that i have done all this the engine backfires if i >-->floor it from idle also if i am driving and punch it the same thing >-->happens "boom" here the backfire up in the bay and engine almost dies. >-->What gives... It does happen less when warm but still. >--> >-->This is on an 86 gw with the 360 and mc 2150. >--> >--> >-->Any help >--> >-->Thanks, >-->Matt >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:28:36 -0700 From: Tesar Landon-r16884 Subject: fsj: RE: RE: RE: Re: [FSJ-List] More engine issues....:-( help please To my knowledge, no computer managed advance on these beasts. There was a really good Hot Rod article on the different types of advance: Initial - where the distributor/ignition module releases a spark to the spark plug terminal relative to piston top dead center with engine at zero rpm. Mechanical - weights in the distributor that centrifugally advance with RPM Vacuum - pulls the distributor in advance based on ported vacuum(my Triumph has a retard diaphragm as well) The advance curve is the plot of total advance vs. rpm. The trick was to get mechanical to come on just as vacuum is tapering off, and not to get too much vacuum advance at idle, worked well in my C%$## after I limited the vacuum advance (long time ago, feels like another life) And every cam/compression ratio/carb/manifold/gearing/weight deserves a different advance curve - - Landon - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Watry, Andrew (LNG-SFR) Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 4:09 PM To: 'fsj-at-digest.net' Subject: fsj: RE: RE: Re: [FSJ-List] More engine issues....:-( help please Backfire can also be way-retarded spark. I adjusted mine once retarded enough to stop pinging and it started popping vacuum hoses off. There is also non-vacuum advance on some of these Jeeps. On my 85 Calif. GW with 360 and Motorcraft dist, you get a fair amount of advance with the vacuum line totally removed. Is it computerized advance, or mechanical by weights? Andrew - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Tesar Landon-r16884 Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 1:59 PM To: 'fsj-at-digest.net' Subject: fsj: RE: Re: [FSJ-List] More engine issues....:-( help please Backfire and ping are about a way lean mixture, you may want to adjust the accelerator pump for a bit more fuel. Thing is though, when you 'punch it', this is a drop in vacuum, and should bring the advance back towards zero, so should mask the problem of lean, I suggest connecting a vacuum guage inline with the vacuum advance, and monitoring. It may be that your vacuum advance is connected to the manifold vacuum rather than to a carburetor 'port'ed vacuum. Should be, looking at the front of the carb, a port to the lower right of the front of the carb. (vehicle stage left) - - Landon No Jeep (though I looked at a Comanche 2WD, it was auto, so no go, $1688 here in Austin, but I'm SURE they'd take less) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 3:45 PM To: FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com; fsj-at-digest.net Subject: fsj: Re: [FSJ-List] More engine issues....:-( help please Well the engine has about 50k on it dont think the chain has been done since it was replaced. all the vac lines where replaced a little before i bought it so i just double checked everything was pluged in where it should be and left it be "they look new" . I can say the engine runs Much stronger when cold now that i hooked up the new CTO could it be advancing the ignition to much? I heard the vacume advance was riged to the cto and that it bumped up the timing to help with cold preformance but i might be way off :) Thanks, Matt On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:48:25 -0600, Roland Hughes wrote: > How many miles since the motor last had a timing chain installed? It > sounds like your timing is way out of whack. Did you happen to replace > any vacumm lines while putting in the CTO? > > Roland > > > Matt wrote: > > >Ok my engine was running strong but failed emissions it did stumble > >when cold off idle if i punched the throttle. Now i have replaced the > >air filter changed the oil and replaced the CTO that was bad and > >causing my air injection system to not work. I want to give emissions > >a try but now that i have done all this the engine backfires if i > >floor it from idle also if i am driving and punch it the same thing > >happens "boom" here the backfire up in the bay and engine almost > >dies. What gives... It does happen less when warm but still. > > > >This is on an 86 gw with the 360 and mc 2150. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 14:30:36 -0800 From: "john" Subject: [FSJ-List] Re: fsj: More engine issues....:-( help please check your timing, it may be too advanced. john On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Matt wrote: >-->Ok my engine was running strong but failed emissions it did stumble >-->when cold off idle if i punched the throttle. Now i have replaced the >-->air filter changed the oil and replaced the CTO that was bad and >-->causing my air injection system to not work. I want to give emissions >-->a try but now that i have done all this the engine backfires if i >-->floor it from idle also if i am driving and punch it the same thing >-->happens "boom" here the backfire up in the bay and engine almost dies. >-->What gives... It does happen less when warm but still. >--> >-->This is on an 86 gw with the 360 and mc 2150. >--> >--> >-->Any help >--> >-->Thanks, >-->Matt >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Help save the life of a child. Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's 'Thanks & Giving.' http://us.click.yahoo.com/6iY7fA/5WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/unTolB/TM - --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To post message: FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com To subscribe: FSJ-List-subscribe-at-yahoogroups.com Moderator: FSJ-List-owner-at-yahoogroups.com IFSJ Page: http://www.ifsja.org Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FSJ-List/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: FSJ-List-unsubscribe-at-yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 17:33:25 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: RE: Re: [FSJ-List] More engine issues....:-( help please you know it's kind of ironic that Landon would pipe up, 'no jeep', seeing as how his old FSJ is also in Tucson and had trouble getting through emissions as well. My son was able to get it through, not sure what he finally did. ;) john On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Tesar Landon-r16884 wrote: >-->Backfire and ping are about a way lean mixture, you may want to adjust the accelerator pump for a bit more fuel. >-->Thing is though, when you 'punch it', this is a drop in vacuum, and should bring the advance back towards zero, so should mask the problem of lean, I suggest connecting a vacuum guage inline with the vacuum advance, and monitoring. It may be that your vacuum advance is connected to the manifold vacuum rather than to a carburetor 'port'ed vacuum. Should be, looking at the front of the carb, a port to the lower right of the front of the carb. (vehicle stage left) >--> >-->- Landon >-->No Jeep (though I looked at a Comanche 2WD, it was auto, so no go, $1688 here in Austin, but I'm SURE they'd take less) >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Matt >-->Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 3:45 PM >-->To: FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com; fsj-at-digest.net >-->Subject: fsj: Re: [FSJ-List] More engine issues....:-( help please >--> >--> >-->Well the engine has about 50k on it dont think the chain has been done >-->since it was replaced. all the vac lines where replaced a little >-->before i bought it so i just double checked everything was pluged in >-->where it should be and left it be "they look new" . I can say the >-->engine runs Much stronger when cold now that i hooked up the new CTO >-->could it be advancing the ignition to much? I heard the vacume advance >-->was riged to the cto and that it bumped up the timing to help with >-->cold preformance but i might be way off :) >--> >--> >-->Thanks, >-->Matt >--> >--> >-->On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:48:25 -0600, Roland Hughes wrote: >-->> How many miles since the motor last had a timing chain installed? It >-->> sounds like your timing is way out of whack. Did you happen to replace >-->> any vacumm lines while putting in the CTO? >-->> >-->> Roland >-->> >-->> >-->> Matt wrote: >-->> >-->> >Ok my engine was running strong but failed emissions it did stumble >-->> >when cold off idle if i punched the throttle. Now i have replaced the >-->> >air filter changed the oil and replaced the CTO that was bad and >-->> >causing my air injection system to not work. I want to give emissions >-->> >a try but now that i have done all this the engine backfires if i >-->> >floor it from idle also if i am driving and punch it the same thing >-->> >happens "boom" here the backfire up in the bay and engine almost dies. >-->> >What gives... It does happen less when warm but still. >-->> > >-->> >This is on an 86 gw with the 360 and mc 2150. >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:37:34 -0700 From: Matt Subject: Re: fsj: RE: Re: [FSJ-List] More engine issues....:-( help please Yah i got this jeep from Payson where they had no emissions so if it ran well thats all they cared about. I will check the timing i just thought it was odd that it started doing this after the air filter and cto valve maybe it was running lean but clogged filter compensated ?? Anyway i check timing and let you know gotta find my light... On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 17:33:25 -0500 (EST), john wrote: > you know it's kind of ironic that Landon would pipe up, 'no jeep', seeing > as how his old FSJ is also in Tucson and had trouble getting through emissions > as well. My son was able to get it through, not sure what he finally did. ;) > > john > > On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Tesar Landon-r16884 wrote: > > >-->Backfire and ping are about a way lean mixture, you may want to adjust the accelerator pump for a bit more fuel. > >-->Thing is though, when you 'punch it', this is a drop in vacuum, and should bring the advance back towards zero, so should mask the problem of lean, I suggest connecting a vacuum guage inline with the vacuum advance, and monitoring. It may be that your vacuum advance is connected to the manifold vacuum rather than to a carburetor 'port'ed vacuum. Should be, looking at the front of the carb, a port to the lower right of the front of the carb. (vehicle stage left) > >--> > >-->- Landon > >-->No Jeep (though I looked at a Comanche 2WD, it was auto, so no go, $1688 here in Austin, but I'm SURE they'd take less) > >--> > >-->-----Original Message----- > >-->From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Matt > >-->Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 3:45 PM > >-->To: FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com; fsj-at-digest.net > >-->Subject: fsj: Re: [FSJ-List] More engine issues....:-( help please > >--> > >--> > >-->Well the engine has about 50k on it dont think the chain has been done > >-->since it was replaced. all the vac lines where replaced a little > >-->before i bought it so i just double checked everything was pluged in > >-->where it should be and left it be "they look new" . I can say the > >-->engine runs Much stronger when cold now that i hooked up the new CTO > >-->could it be advancing the ignition to much? I heard the vacume advance > >-->was riged to the cto and that it bumped up the timing to help with > >-->cold preformance but i might be way off :) > >--> > >--> > >-->Thanks, > >-->Matt > >--> > >--> > >-->On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:48:25 -0600, Roland Hughes wrote: > >-->> How many miles since the motor last had a timing chain installed? It > >-->> sounds like your timing is way out of whack. Did you happen to replace > >-->> any vacumm lines while putting in the CTO? > >-->> > >-->> Roland > >-->> > >-->> > >-->> Matt wrote: > >-->> > >-->> >Ok my engine was running strong but failed emissions it did stumble > >-->> >when cold off idle if i punched the throttle. Now i have replaced the > >-->> >air filter changed the oil and replaced the CTO that was bad and > >-->> >causing my air injection system to not work. I want to give emissions > >-->> >a try but now that i have done all this the engine backfires if i > >-->> >floor it from idle also if i am driving and punch it the same thing > >-->> >happens "boom" here the backfire up in the bay and engine almost dies. > >-->> >What gives... It does happen less when warm but still. > >-->> > > >-->> >This is on an 86 gw with the 360 and mc 2150. > >--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2391 **************************