From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Jul 20 21:12:58 2005 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, July 21 2005 Volume 01 : Number 2478 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: RE: Re: manifold gaskets fsj: Re: runs bad... fsj: Re: Re: runs bad... Re: fsj: Re: Re: runs bad... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 10:44:05 -0700 From: Tesar Landon-r16884 Subject: fsj: RE: Re: manifold gaskets "I've found that it does that better when you re-torque a hot engine, but it's not much fun." This makes sense as the steel bolts will elongate more with temperature than the cast iron manifolds. - - Landon - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Brazzadog-at-aol.com Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 12:37 PM To: fsj-at-digest.net Subject: fsj: Re: manifold gaskets Greg is right, you have to re-torque periodically. Here's my method. .... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 14:01:43 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: runs bad... I'm glad you got the manifolds sealed up. The one dirty spark plug makes me think you have an offending valve at that cylinder. It might not be worth worrying about as much as the timing problem. Also, bad valves can cause the engine to perform poorly under acceleration loads but if you only have one bad valve then that's probably not going to be enough to notice. The erratic and hard to set timing makes me think the timing chain may be loose, but it could be a vacum leak, as someone else suggested. Ben In a message dated 7/19/2005 10:40:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:55:21 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: ...was manifold gaskets, now runs bad... Well it makes little sense but these kinds of things always happen to me. I've gotten the exhaust manifold installed, sealed and that much is fine. It seems to work with the copper loaded silicone gasket maker. No real "gasket". But seems to have sealed fine. Thanks for the info guys! BUT. It has taken to not really wanting to run. Now this truck was running well enough when I started this little exhaust manifold adventure. But suddenly, it seems to be like this. It starts, and will sit and warm up , rough tho... and will drive a little, but gags and chokes at the slightest load on the throttle... Long-story short... have replaced plugs, coil, wires, cap, rotor, checked Intake manifold bolts (several loose), Checked for vacumn leaks (nothing of note), Ran through all the exhast manifold bolts again, Checked timing and it seems odd, not stable, kind of hard to set. and it doesn't want to set to "spec" I've got to set the timing high a bit to make it run half way decent.... Beginning to wonder if it doesn't have a broken valve spring or a sticking valve or something along those lines. What do those act like? I DID notice something odd about the plugs when I pulled them. They were all black, and I already know the mixture is definitely rich. I need to get the smaller jet set, whatever it is for the Edlebrock... one day... but what matters for the most part is that the plugs looked generally good, and all were similar excepting the #8 plug again. Looks really crappy. Has looked crappy before, changed, then once later when checked it looked good, but now again it looks really bad. There is an accumulation of crud perfectly formed along only one side wall of the tip. Otherwise the tip is kind of burned black like the others. Maybe actually a little tannish... But there is this weird crud attached to the side of the tip and bends around with it making the tip essentially appear to be twice as wide as normal. Similar buildup on the same side of the electrode and ceramic center parts. The "other side" of the tip has nearly nothing coating it, just the black coloring... Comments and clues desperately needed. This is my daily driver and it ain't... I cannot explain how important it is that I get this thing running.... I guess I'll investigate carb, maybe pull the top off and see if the bowls are full of crud or something.... don't know how it could be, it runs dual filters... Maybe I picked up some water? I could try one of my spare brain boxes, but i don't think that is it... I've got a few, worth a try... Potentially could be a pickup coil assy., so I'll replace that I guess... Better do a compression check on the right bank anyway to see what i see... Maybe need to change a fuel filter? Other Ideas anyone? JeepNut ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 12:25:53 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: runs bad... fwiw, the #8 exhaust valve is a cronic problem with the AMC V8s. something to do with the engine architecture and oiling. before i tore my motor down, i was getting zero compression on #8 due to a very burned out exhaust valve. we'll see how long the rebuilt lasts before it happens again. Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 2:01 PM Subject: fsj: Re: runs bad... > I'm glad you got the manifolds sealed up. > The one dirty spark plug makes me think you have an offending valve at that > cylinder. It might not be worth worrying about as much as the timing > problem. Also, bad valves can cause the engine to perform poorly under acceleration > loads but if you only have one bad valve then that's probably not going to > be enough to notice. > The erratic and hard to set timing makes me think the timing chain may be > loose, but it could be a vacum leak, as someone else suggested. > > Ben > > In a message dated 7/19/2005 10:40:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: > > Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:55:21 -0500 > From: JeepNut > Subject: fsj: ...was manifold gaskets, now runs bad... > > Well it makes little sense but these kinds of things always happen to me. > I've gotten the exhaust manifold installed, sealed and that much is fine. > It seems to work with the copper loaded silicone gasket maker. No real > "gasket". But seems to have sealed fine. Thanks for the info guys! > BUT. > It has taken to not really wanting to run. > Now this truck was running well enough when I started this little > exhaust manifold adventure. But suddenly, it seems to be like this. > It starts, and will sit and warm up , rough tho... and will drive a > little, but gags and chokes at the slightest load on the throttle... > Long-story short... have replaced plugs, coil, wires, cap, rotor, > checked Intake manifold bolts (several loose), Checked for vacumn leaks > (nothing of note), Ran through all the exhast manifold bolts again, > Checked timing and it seems odd, not stable, kind of hard to set. and > it doesn't want to set to "spec" I've got to set the timing high a bit > to make it run half way decent.... > > Beginning to wonder if it doesn't have a broken valve spring or a > sticking valve or something along those lines. What do those act like? > > I DID notice something odd about the plugs when I pulled them. They > were all black, and I already know the mixture is definitely rich. I > need to get the smaller jet set, whatever it is for the Edlebrock... one > day... but what matters for the most part is that the plugs looked > generally good, and all were similar excepting the #8 plug again. Looks > really crappy. Has looked crappy before, changed, then once later when > checked it looked good, but now again it looks really bad. There is an > accumulation of crud perfectly formed along only one side wall of the > tip. Otherwise the tip is kind of burned black like the others. Maybe > actually a little tannish... But there is this weird crud attached to > the side of the tip and bends around with it making the tip essentially > appear to be twice as wide as normal. Similar buildup on the same side > of the electrode and ceramic center parts. The "other side" of the tip > has nearly nothing coating it, just the black coloring... > > Comments and clues desperately needed. This is my daily driver and it > ain't... I cannot explain how important it is that I get this thing > running.... > > I guess I'll investigate carb, maybe pull the top off and see if the > bowls are full of crud or something.... don't know how it could be, it > runs dual filters... > Maybe I picked up some water? > I could try one of my spare brain boxes, but i don't think that is it... > I've got a few, worth a try... > Potentially could be a pickup coil assy., so I'll replace that I guess... > Better do a compression check on the right bank anyway to see what i see... > Maybe need to change a fuel filter? > > Other Ideas anyone? > > JeepNut > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.16/50 - Release Date: 7/15/05 > > - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.16/50 - Release Date: 7/15/05 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 23:11:58 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: runs bad... Thanks guys for the assist. Project on hold until I return from a trade show weekend extended.... For you Seattlites who are really bored, we're gonna be where-ever the American Association of Physicists in Medicine is holding their soiree for this year. I don't know really where it is in Seattle. Someone will point me to the right cab at the airport I suppose. That's kind of how I travel. I go to the right airport and then figure out where and how I need to go from there. One step at a time is my motto. I'd rather be fixing my truck anyway. This is all just an unwanted imposition on my wrenching time. I'd offer to visit with anyone available, but I'll be in a snit anyway the whole time and probably "scheduled" most of the time anyway. I don't mean to be a butthead really, but I really do have a problem as I despise, object, abhor, and rebuke! air travel and the marshall law imposed at the airports these days. And I don't give two hoots about some terror propaganda... I'll be surprised if I don't get arrested if they ask me to do something ignorant. I generally am just NOT a travelling sort of guy. Unless its in a 4x4 going somewhere fun... The airlines could all go bankrupt tomorrow and suit me just fine. Used to be a pleasure. Used to be fun. Now it's a chore. It stinks. Many times literally. And is much more uncomfortable and inconvenient than the Greyhound actually. Just faster... that's the only advantage. Country could use a little slowing down anyway ya know? They should all just go bankrupt... lol... y'all aren't still readin' this are you?... it's SORT of tongue in cheek but then.... Well in any case I will be ready to leave as soon as I get there, in fact I'm literally nauseated now with anticipation and dread and know that I will be like this until next Friday when I can get back home... I think it's a phobia but I don't know which one... Doc started me on Ativan 2 weeks ago to handle the stress and I have had to double my dose already just to maintain my sanity. Makes me a little slow, but I can eat at least one meal a day and NOT go off on people for nothing in particular... I only have to do this travel scenario one time a year with this new position. I haven't had to use one of these sad excuses for a flying Greyhound in about 4 or 5 years and I don't miss it one bit. Especially with the marshall-law and all. grrr... sorry this ran way off topic... I really do have an issue. I know. Sorry it came out in the mail... but heck. That's me. What I REALLY wanted to let you all know is that I appreciate the feedbacks and I will start the punch out list as soon as I can get back home. Thinking that there MUST be a vacumn lost somewhere... we'll see... and #8's are traditionally trouble... man... wish I had built this motor myself... I'll be back in a week or so and ready to find the gremlin in the works. Thanks again all and hopefully my ignorant phobia doesn't offend anyone in particular. JeepNuttier than usual... Neal Hoover wrote: >fwiw, the #8 exhaust valve is a cronic problem with the AMC V8s. something >to do with the engine architecture and oiling. before i tore my motor down, >i was getting zero compression on #8 due to a very burned out exhaust valve. >we'll see how long the rebuilt lasts before it happens again. > >Neal A. Hoover >Project '76 J-10 >Project '96 XJ >http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 2:01 PM >Subject: fsj: Re: runs bad... > > > > >>I'm glad you got the manifolds sealed up. >>The one dirty spark plug makes me think you have an offending valve at >> >> >that > > >>cylinder. It might not be worth worrying about as much as the timing >>problem. Also, bad valves can cause the engine to perform poorly under >> >> >acceleration > > >>loads but if you only have one bad valve then that's probably not going >> >> >to > > >>be enough to notice. >>The erratic and hard to set timing makes me think the timing chain may be >>loose, but it could be a vacum leak, as someone else suggested. >> >>Ben >> >>In a message dated 7/19/2005 10:40:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >>owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: >> >>Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:55:21 -0500 >>From: JeepNut >>Subject: fsj: ...was manifold gaskets, now runs bad... >> >>Well it makes little sense but these kinds of things always happen to me. >>I've gotten the exhaust manifold installed, sealed and that much is fine. >>It seems to work with the copper loaded silicone gasket maker. No real >>"gasket". But seems to have sealed fine. Thanks for the info guys! >>BUT. >>It has taken to not really wanting to run. >>Now this truck was running well enough when I started this little >>exhaust manifold adventure. But suddenly, it seems to be like this. >>It starts, and will sit and warm up , rough tho... and will drive a >>little, but gags and chokes at the slightest load on the throttle... >>Long-story short... have replaced plugs, coil, wires, cap, rotor, >>checked Intake manifold bolts (several loose), Checked for vacumn leaks >>(nothing of note), Ran through all the exhast manifold bolts again, >>Checked timing and it seems odd, not stable, kind of hard to set. and >>it doesn't want to set to "spec" I've got to set the timing high a bit >>to make it run half way decent.... >> >>Beginning to wonder if it doesn't have a broken valve spring or a >>sticking valve or something along those lines. What do those act like? >> >>I DID notice something odd about the plugs when I pulled them. They >>were all black, and I already know the mixture is definitely rich. I >>need to get the smaller jet set, whatever it is for the Edlebrock... one >>day... but what matters for the most part is that the plugs looked >>generally good, and all were similar excepting the #8 plug again. Looks >>really crappy. Has looked crappy before, changed, then once later when >>checked it looked good, but now again it looks really bad. There is an >>accumulation of crud perfectly formed along only one side wall of the >>tip. Otherwise the tip is kind of burned black like the others. Maybe >>actually a little tannish... But there is this weird crud attached to >>the side of the tip and bends around with it making the tip essentially >>appear to be twice as wide as normal. Similar buildup on the same side >>of the electrode and ceramic center parts. The "other side" of the tip >>has nearly nothing coating it, just the black coloring... >> >>Comments and clues desperately needed. This is my daily driver and it >>ain't... I cannot explain how important it is that I get this thing >>running.... >> >>I guess I'll investigate carb, maybe pull the top off and see if the >>bowls are full of crud or something.... don't know how it could be, it >>runs dual filters... >>Maybe I picked up some water? >>I could try one of my spare brain boxes, but i don't think that is it... >>I've got a few, worth a try... >>Potentially could be a pickup coil assy., so I'll replace that I guess... >>Better do a compression check on the right bank anyway to see what i >> >> >see... > > >>Maybe need to change a fuel filter? >> >>Other Ideas anyone? >> >>JeepNut >> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.16/50 - Release Date: 7/15/05 >> >> >> >> > > > > > > - -- This mail subject to change without notice. Text is slightly enlarged to show detail. No substitutions allowed. - ---------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer '92 Cherokee Laredo '87 Grand Wagoneer (parts) '81 Wagoneer (parts) ...and they say there's only one... - ---------------------------------------------------------- Registered Linux user #287453 ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2478 **************************