From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Sep 14 09:57:26 2005 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, September 14 2005 Volume 01 : Number 2507 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: turtle project gets interesting... Re: fsj: turtle project gets interesting... Re: fsj: 6" Lift disaster, need input Re: fsj: turtle project gets interesting... Re: fsj: turtle project gets interesting... fsj: Re: turtle project gets interesting... fsj: flexplate 4.0L to 727 - the turtle project fsj: j-20 on e-bay (not mine) Re: fsj: j-20 on e-bay (not mine) fsj: Re: flexplate 4.0L to 727 - the turtle project fsj: Trucks! - Bargain Beater ('79 Cherokee) Part 2 FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:47:49 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: turtle project gets interesting... john said: {- he may be the first one to put a 4.0L from {- an XJ into an SJ (unless it's already been done...) That's profound... I would definitely agree that he would be the first unless it's already been done. ;) Now lemme get this straight... Whose XJ did he roll? It sounded like he rolled somebody else's and then pulled it back right-side-up (greasy side down) with his own XJ. What's the real scoop? {- he'll take the turtled xj and make it {- an open top desert runner... :) That could be cool. Saw one that was topless I think from the factory once, at the second Camp Jeep. Apparently they're pretty much all that way in the Bahamas. I wonder why we don't see more pics of them, or see them for sale on eBay. Just remember, living in your area, he'd better have a garage for it, and he's only going to get to use it three days per year. Less often if he has a job. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dogs believe they are human. Cats believe they are God. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:04:47 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: turtle project gets interesting... A: I already put one in. I just didn't get to drive it because my SOA steering parts were missing in action (UPS lost them in '02 or I would've driven my '84 J10 to Ouray) I'm about to put another in (as soon as I finish the yard cleaning. A little info for people wanting to do this swap: Brake booster needs to go away and be replaced with a hydroboost or a 3" body lift put on to clear the EFI intake. Use the FSJ mounts and brackets for a 6 cyl. If you use Renix EFI, the knock sensor has to be moved forward on the driver's side of the block (there is a drilled boss there already) and the hole redrilled for the Metric threaded sensor (I think it's 12mm x 1.5 but double check. I bought the tap for mine). Motor mount bracket will need drilling (where the sensor was) and a Metric bolt, same thread as the sensor put in there. I SERIOUSLY suggest putting in Energy Suspension CJ 6 cyl motor mount pads while you are at it. I used the XJ PS pump first time (you need a '78? or newer FSJ PS box that has O-ring fittings) and will be using the ZJ one second time (keeping all the ZJ or XJ accessories with the serpentine belt) Use a 4.0L ZJ or YJ/TJ waterpump and centered fan. (I'm changing out my parts rig 4.0L '93 ZJ's alternator for a regular GM Delcotron as they are easier to find and CHEAPER!) The motor end is easy. It's the trans mount and wiring that are daunting. I also went with a CJ 3 core V8 conversion rad, but the hoses were mickey moused the first time. More later (pics and all are being taken to put into an upcoming FSJ magazine writeup) The XJ HO wiring is far easier to deal with than a ZJ one. Renix needs to be wired into the cab of the FSJ. john said: {- he may be the first one to put a 4.0L from {- an XJ into an SJ (unless it's already been done...) That's profound... I would definitely agree that he would be the first unless it's already been done. ;) Now lemme get this straight... Whose XJ did he roll? It sounded like he rolled somebody else's and then pulled it back right-side-up (greasy side down) with his own XJ. What's the real scoop? {- he'll take the turtled xj and make it {- an open top desert runner... :) That could be cool. Saw one that was topless I think from the factory once, at the second Camp Jeep. Apparently they're pretty much all that way in the Bahamas. I wonder why we don't see more pics of them, or see them for sale on eBay. Just remember, living in your area, he'd better have a garage for it, and he's only going to get to use it three days per year. Less often if he has a job. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dogs believe they are human. Cats believe they are God. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:06:46 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: 6" Lift disaster, need input DEFINTELY high angle driveline (Ujoint hits the backside of the yoke as it turns if you don't) degree the driveline angles and at the very least new Ujoints. U-joints blowing is to be expected if they are old. I would would definately install whatever steel shims are required with the kit on both axles. Did it come with shims? Should be 6* IIRC. Make sure that your axle U-bolt straps are torqued to spec to ensure you don't have any potential play there as well. Also, I'm pretty sure that going above a 4" lift requires new/longer drivelines and your's are probably so far extended that you don't have enough spline engagement to be stable. If you have slip joints popping apart and you aren't even articulating then you definately need longer drivelines. Check out Tom Woods Drivelines or High Angle Driveline. Elliott - --- JeepNut wrote: > Hi all, > I really need your ideas, so if you think I'm > windy, and want to cut > to the chase, go to the bottom and look for "my > questions"... > > Been in lurk mode. Too busy, working 10-12 hour > days, all of 'em > for several weeks now... took a 3 day weekend > finally... specifically to > do the BJ's 6" kit and it has of course become a > minor disaster... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:10:31 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: turtle project gets interesting... On Tue, 13 Sep 2005, Dan Black wrote: >-->john said: >-->{- he may be the first one to put a 4.0L from >-->{- an XJ into an SJ (unless it's already been done...) >--> >-->That's profound... >--> >-->I would definitely agree that he would be the first unless it's already >-->been done. ;) can't disagree with you... ;) >--> >--> >-->Now lemme get this straight... Whose XJ did he roll? It sounded like >-->he rolled somebody else's and then pulled it back right-side-up (greasy >-->side down) with his own XJ. What's the real scoop? he was driving his friend's xj... this is the same friend that bought landon's '88 FSJ from Houston, blew the motor and then went to LA to buy a wrecked $250 xj. My son donated this tailgate to get his friend's xj together... and that's the xj they were in... seems they had some sort of medievel slingshot attached to the roof that weighed 100lbs... there were three of these flyboys in the xj... :) remember this is the same bunch of airmen that fly mercedes around tucson, see my website for that picture... :) >--> >-->{- he'll take the turtled xj and make it >-->{- an open top desert runner... :) >--> >-->That could be cool. Saw one that was topless I think from the factory >-->once, at the second Camp Jeep. Apparently they're pretty much all that >-->way in the Bahamas. I wonder why we don't see more pics of them, or see >-->them for sale on eBay. hard to say, one of the guys on the xj list cut the top off of one, up in Wisconsin??? don't know what happened to it. >--> >-->Just remember, living in your area, he'd better have a garage for it, >-->and he's only going to get to use it three days per year. Less often if >-->he has a job. that xj probably won't make it out of AZ... he's already trying to figure out how he's going to get all his vehicles home when he rotates out of the AF. :) john >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> Dogs believe they are human. >--> Cats believe they are God. >-->-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:12:00 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: turtle project gets interesting... On Tue, 13 Sep 2005, Jim Blair wrote: >-->A: I already put one in. I just didn't get to drive it because my SOA >-->steering parts were missing in action (UPS lost them in '02 or I would've well, then you didn't... ;) because if you count just putting a 4.0L into an FSJ, Curtis and I already did that 4 years ago... ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:09:05 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: turtle project gets interesting... A: I have the flexplate (someplace) but he'll need a harmonic balancer mounted CPS kit (Renix or HO) and use the FSJ starter. as earlier reported, my son went turtle with an xj... turns out that the xj is now going to be a donor for an FSJ... my son is going to attempt to mate the 4.0L to a 727 in the '88 fsj. we know the bellhousings will mate up... flex plate is an issue, he doesn't have one... we'll see how this goes... he may be the first one to put a 4.0L from an XJ into an SJ (unless it's already been done...) then the axles from the turtled xj will go into his '87 (he found out that welded diffs aren't real good) and he'll take the turtled xj and make it an open top desert runner... :) like I said, see what happens when I lock up my sawzall? :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:36:04 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: flexplate 4.0L to 727 - the turtle project On Tue, 13 Sep 2005, Jim Blair wrote: >-->A: I have the flexplate (someplace) but he'll need a harmonic balancer >-->mounted CPS kit (Renix or HO) and use the FSJ starter. how much? also, why would he need a harmonic balancer CPS if he's got the correct flex plate? just because the sensor notch isn't in the 727? john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:04:22 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: fsj: j-20 on e-bay (not mine) if anyone's looking for a CHERRY j-20.... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/87-JEEP-J20-3-4-ton-4X4-PickUp-Truck_W0QQitemZ4575231268QQcategoryZ6286QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:08:50 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: j-20 on e-bay (not mine) nice looking but not exactly cherry... 154,000 miles... wheels are not stock, cheesy steering wheel wrap, missing the underhood liner, what's going on with the left rear fender? bed is "rippled" a bit. otherwise it isn't a bad looking rig, have a feeling it won't make reserve though... maybe I should buy it and put my 6.2L Diesel into... ;) john On Tue, 13 Sep 2005, Neal Hoover wrote: >-->if anyone's looking for a CHERRY j-20.... >-->http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/87-JEEP-J20-3-4-ton-4X4-PickUp-Truck_W0QQitemZ4575231268QQcategoryZ6286QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem >--> >--> >-->Neal A. Hoover >-->Project '76 J-10 >-->Project '96 XJ >-->http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 02:01:37 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: flexplate 4.0L to 727 - the turtle project A: No sensor hole in the bellhousing and the 727 flexplate doesn't have a tome ring for EFI. (If the parts rig is HO, then one from a ZJ 4.0L should work if he cuts the CPS hole) On Tue, 13 Sep 2005, Jim Blair wrote: >-->A: I have the flexplate (someplace) but he'll need a harmonic balancer >-->mounted CPS kit (Renix or HO) and use the FSJ starter. how much? also, why would he need a harmonic balancer CPS if he's got the correct flex plate? just because the sensor notch isn't in the 727? john ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:48:55 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: Trucks! - Bargain Beater ('79 Cherokee) Part 2 http://dan.black.org/Trucks!/ Second episode is up -- I did get it successfully when it re-ran last weekend. Shouldn't be long to get the DVD put together. Tonight if I'm lucky, though I've got a lot of non-computer stuff going on before the weekend. Use the .mov version if possible -- uses the new H264 codec, so much smaller for similar or even higher quality. Requires QuickTime 7. But there's an mpeg1 version in there for the QuickTime-impaired. 40MB for the .mov, 83MB for the mpeg. Both 320x240, 30fps. Video is 18min, and that's including the 4min of non-FSJ sponsorship stuff at the end -- yeah, not much meat to some of those shows. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Failure is not an option! It comes bundled with the software. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2507 **************************