From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Sep 28 17:13:45 2007 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Saturday, September 29 2007 Volume 01 : Number 2929 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: and the proud owner of the J10 is... fsj: Re: and the proud owner of the J10 is... RE: fsj: Re: and the proud owner of the J10 is... fsj: Re: xj: RE: mix matched bolts, and news article fsj: Re: xj: mix matched bolts, and news article RE: fsj: Re: xj: pictures... Re: fsj: Re: and the proud owner of the J10 is... RE: fsj: Anyone want to hydroboost their brakes? follow up... fsj: an omega update FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:09:10 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: fsj: Re: and the proud owner of the J10 is... did that thing have a nice cargo/bed lamp on it??? ;) Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "b max" ; "full size jeep list" ; "diesel-benz list" ; "xj-list" Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 4:08 PM Subject: fsj: and the proud owner of the J10 is... > Jim Blair got in touch, he wants it... :) > Putting him in touch with the owner... thanx Jim... See, if > you help John do a compression test on his Grand Wagoneer > he'll give you a Jeep. ;) > > He's getting it for our mutual friend Brian, who has been afflicted, > infected and otherwise affected by the Full Size Jeep bug... he > either caught it from me, or from Jim... not sure... ;) > > john > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > # ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" > # To: "full size jeep list" ; "xj-list" ; > # "diesel-benz list" ; "Blair, Jim -- Jim Blair" > # ; "Jim Blair" > # Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:55 PM > # Subject: xj: resized j10 pix > # > # > ok, here's the chance to be part of the FSJ community... :) > # > little or no initial cost... just think you could tow > # > your Diesel Benz, XJ or FSJ (mlc) with ease... > # > > # > some assembly (and paint) required... > # > > # > resized links: > # > http://wagoneers.com/tmp/j10/ALL.html > # > http://wagoneers.com/tmp/j10/All-900.html > # > > # > ----- > # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 15:55:53 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: and the proud owner of the J10 is... if you can't see it in the picture, it ain't there. :) you've seen what I've seen... :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 26 Sep 2007, Neal Hoover wrote: # did that thing have a nice cargo/bed lamp on it??? # ;) # # Neal A. Hoover # Project '76 J-10 # Project '96 XJ # http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj # # # ----- Original Message ----- # From: "john" # To: "b max" ; "full size jeep list" ; # "diesel-benz list" ; "xj-list" # Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 4:08 PM # Subject: fsj: and the proud owner of the J10 is... # # # > Jim Blair got in touch, he wants it... :) # > Putting him in touch with the owner... thanx Jim... See, if # > you help John do a compression test on his Grand Wagoneer # > he'll give you a Jeep. ;) # > # > He's getting it for our mutual friend Brian, who has been afflicted, # > infected and otherwise affected by the Full Size Jeep bug... he # > either caught it from me, or from Jim... not sure... ;) # > # > john # > # > ----- # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" # > # To: "full size jeep list" ; "xj-list" ; # > # "diesel-benz list" ; "Blair, Jim -- Jim Blair" # > # ; "Jim Blair" # > # Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:55 PM # > # Subject: xj: resized j10 pix # > # # > # > ok, here's the chance to be part of the FSJ community... :) # > # > little or no initial cost... just think you could tow # > # > your Diesel Benz, XJ or FSJ (mlc) with ease... # > # > # > # > some assembly (and paint) required... # > # > # > # > resized links: # > # > http://wagoneers.com/tmp/j10/ALL.html # > # > http://wagoneers.com/tmp/j10/All-900.html # > # > # > # > ----- # > # # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:01:26 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Re: and the proud owner of the J10 is... It has part of a canopy on it so I can't tell. Going to get it next week. (our schedules don't match) if you can't see it in the picture, it ain't there. :) you've seen what I've seen... :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 26 Sep 2007, Neal Hoover wrote: # did that thing have a nice cargo/bed lamp on it??? # ;) # # Neal A. Hoover _________________________________________________________________ News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now! http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:46:35 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: fsj: Re: xj: RE: mix matched bolts, and news article The AIR system was a dinosaur attempt to "clean" the air by burning leftover fuel as it escapes from the combustion chamber but all it really does is thin out the mixture before it leaves the back of the car. From: "Tesar Landon-r16884" Subject: xj: RE: mix matched bolts, and news article It's a very strange thread. Believe I added JB Weld to make sure. Too bad we don't understand how to better support the AIR system - parts/diagrams, etc. - - - Landon _________________________________________________________________ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&m kt=en-us ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:55:18 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: fsj: Re: xj: mix matched bolts, and news article I originally thought it was 14mm but those banjo bolts are hard to come by. Brian's haven't come out yet and it's been 8 months since we did it. From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 7:49 PM Subject: xj: mix matched bolts, and news article why is it with american iron that there is a mix of metric and SAE? :) getting the exhaust manifold off of my jeep has been an interesting experience... did find the CORRECT bolt to plug up the air injection stuff... 9/16" 18 threads per inch... only thing Tacoma Screw had was 1" bolts... I think they'll stay seated in the holes without washers... thoughts? also, on that topic about materials, Flight International has an interesting article (9/24/2007) that clearly showed the ex-engineer is in a minority of old school engineers and that the vast majority of engineers they talked with concurred that there was sufficient data and that there clearly isn't a problem. _________________________________________________________________ Explore the seven wonders of the world http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=7+wonders+world&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 23:25:42 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: pictures... I sold my house after living there 8 years. Been in 2 apartments, but no more. Bought another mobile home for now. Hope to collect enough $$ to build a house where my cabin is now. From: Kevin Subject: fsj: Re: xj: pictures... You always seem to be moving every time I hear from you, Jim :) On Fri, Sep 21, 2007 at 07:29:09PM -0700, Jim Blair wrote: > I get about 20 mpg in my '87 Comanche with 4.0L 5 speed with 3.73 gears and > 33" tires which gives me the equivalent to my OEM gears (3.07) and stock > tires so my speedometer is dead on. Fully loaded with the canopy on it > drops to -at-15 mpg. Got a lot of that happening lately with moving. _________________________________________________________________ Discover the new Windows Vista http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vista&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 07:05:10 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: and the proud owner of the J10 is... if it has a lamp with a housing that still has a nice chrome finish on it, would you be intersted in parting with it? btw, i have a lamp housing without a finish on it that we can swap if you want! ;) guess it depends on how nice you want to make your "new" truck. Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Blair" To: "john" ; "Neal Hoover" Cc: Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 1:01 AM Subject: RE: fsj: Re: and the proud owner of the J10 is... > It has part of a canopy on it so I can't tell. Going to get it next > week. (our schedules don't match) > > > > if you can't see it in the picture, it ain't there. :) you've > seen what I've seen... :) > > john > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Wed, 26 Sep 2007, Neal Hoover wrote: > > # did that thing have a nice cargo/bed lamp on it??? > # ;) > # > # Neal A. Hoover > _________________________________________________________________ > News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now! > http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 06:03:18 -0700 (PDT) From: elliott sydnam Subject: RE: fsj: Anyone want to hydroboost their brakes? follow up... I checked this out on my dually which uses the same bendix hydroboost system as the Astro van (with only external differences). The results were: with the engine shut off I could not tell the difference between braking pressure required with the engine off or running for the first two applications of the brake pedal. Engine off I had full power brakes. On the third through fifth pedal applications the amount of braking assist reduced rapidly to the point I only had typical manual brake pressure. If I'd had vacuum brakes I would not have even had the first two full power assist applications so the accumualator work as designed and I'd prefer this set up over vacuum brakes any day. Now accumualtors can lose pressure over time and you won't know it unless your engine quits and you only have manual brakes. An accumulator requiring replacement might not be fully obvious but often it is completely obvious as when you grab it you can tell it is wobbling in the housing. One that has lost ~50% pressure might not be so obvious. Anyone who has an interest in the functioning of the hydroboost and review tech and ask questions on Hydratech's forum at: http://www.hydratechbraking.com/ They also sell units as well as hoses and fittings for the hydraulics. Elliott - --- elliott sydnam wrote: > Neil, > Any chance you'd be willing to check this out in your rig? On a straight away, cut the engine > being careful not to lock the column and see if you still have decent brakes for several pedal > applications? > The idea of haveing the 1500psi nitrogen charge in the accumulater is to provide back up > pressure > assist for 5-10 pedal applications. Even without a charged accumulator the pedal pressure should > be no greater than losing power on a vacuum assist system because the manual system is the same, > the pushrod from the pedal acutuates the plunger in the master cylinder so I'm not seeing how > even > with a failed accumulator the pedal pressure would be any greater in a HB equipped vehicle. > I've lost power in my vacuum assisted Cherokee on a hill once and I agree that it felt like John > described "like pressing down on concrete" so I don't see how it could be worse. I lost power in > my hydroboosted 2000 F350 dually once and I don't recall it being that bad... not that it was > pleasent either, but not worse than what I experience in my Chero. My experience with the Chero > was that if my pedal pressure had been any worse I would not have had any brakes. > > These hydroboost are installed on every Astro EXT van and all the diesel duallies, it has the > same > size pressure piston in the HB as used in the GM dually one ton trucks. > > BTW, I know a guy making up pressure hose for these that have the Metric o-ring fittings at the > HB > end of the hose and flared hose fittings at the box and pump end of the hose, with correct > bending > for the price of what a set of hoses cost at AutoZone with the addition of flared line adaptors. > This should simplify installing on pre '80 rigs. > Thanks guys! > Elliott > > > > --- john wrote: > > > have had four factory equipped, fully functional GM Diesels with this > > setup, when the engine quits the brakes are really hard, but still work > > fine... harder than when you lose vacuum... > > > > ----- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > On Tue, 11 Sep 2007, elliott sydnam wrote: > > > > # Not sure on that, possibly your accumulator was compromised. That is something I could try > > out > > # though. It shouldn't be any worse than manual brakes, especially if you use the same master > > # cylinder. It should be no different than losing vacuum assist since the system is manual > once > > the > > # 5-10 applications of nitrogen assist in the accumulator are used. With vacuum breaks you > > don't > > # have another 5-10 power assists when you stall or bust a belt. I'll look into that. > Hydratech > > has > > # a pretty good forum at: http://www.hydratechbraking.com/ and it may have come up as a > > question > > # there. > > # Elliott > > # > > # > > # > > # --- john wrote: > > # > > # > if a hydraboost system looses it's power it's NOT the same as > > # > a vaccum booster pressure, it's way harder!!! > > # > > > # > I've had four GM Diesels with hydraboost... you loose power steering > > # > from a belt break or an engine termination and you'd better have > > # > really, really strong leg muscles... it feels like you're trying > > # > to press down on concrete... > > # > > > # > john > > # > > > # > ----- > > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > > # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > # > > > # > On Tue, 11 Sep 2007, Jim Blair wrote: > > # > > > # > # I scored my own from boneyards (got real lucky because most want more than > > # > # your price for them!) and I even found one in a Lincoln Towncar to go into my > > # > # '82 AMC Spirit when I put the EFI in. MUCH better braking and if you ever > > # > # stall, it's more like manual brakes than double footing a vacuum booster gone > > # > # bad! > > # > # > > # > # Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will > > # > # > > # > # like them only Entangle and > > # > # hold the poor and > > # > # > > # > # weak, while the rich and powerful will easily > > # > # > > # > # break > > # > # through them > > # > # > > # > # > > # > # > > # > # ANACHARSIS Scythian philosopher (fl. 600 BC) > > # > # > > # > # > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 08:54:22 -0700 > > # > # > From: elliottsydnam-at-yahoo.com > > # > # > Subject: fsj: Anyone want to hydroboost their brakes? > > # > # > To: fsj-at-digest.net > > # > # > > > # > # > I have several used hydroboosts for sale that can be adapted to '74+ rigs > > # > # fairly easily and I'm > > # > # > working out issues for pre '74 rigs. > > # > # > The hydroboost itself is $75 and includes mounting bolts and will be bushed > > # > # to fit your brake > > # > # > pedal assembly. > > # > # > If you have a '81+ rig you will also need the master cylinder and that set > > # > # up is only $100. > > # > # > Shipping on these in the continental US is under $25. > > # > # > > > # > # > Other things you would need to purchase on your own are: > > # > # > 1) new hoses (I will give you the part numbers depending on your vehicle) > > # > # > 2) a 3/8" barbed hose T-fitting for the return line (if you can't find one I > > # > # can get them) > > # > # > 3) a 1" spacer block to fit between your aluminum firewall spacer and the > > # > # mounting plate of the > > # > # > hydroboost. You can fab your own (I will provide the dimensions) or you can > > # > # purchase them through > > # > # > a buddy of mine at $35 for a stainless spacer or $25 for a regular spacer > > # > # that you will need to > > # > # > paint. > > # > # > 4) if you have flared hose fittings (pre '80 rigs) you will need to adapt > > # > # your hoses and there are > > # > # > a few ways to accomplish that which I will guide you on. > > # > # > > > # > # > Just a note here, if your rig has the later style cruise control ('83+ ?) > > # > # the servo will need to > > # > # > be relocated. If you have a 6 cyl with the weber carb the throttle linkage > > # > # will need to be > > # > # > modified slightly I believe, or the HB can be inverted for greater clearance > > # > # although it does take > > # > # > longer to bleed inverted. I also have a guy looking to make custom hoses > > # > # that will adapt the > > # > # > metric o-ring HB end to the earlier flared hose fittings on pre '80 rigs. > > # > # > > > # > # > For pre '74 rigs I have quite a bit of the details worked out already, there > > # > # are some variations > > # > # > among those rigs so with some basic info/measurements from you I am > > # > # confident I can adapt these to > > # > # > your application as well, but you will need another master cylinder, as well > > # > # as a residual > > # > # > pressure valve for your front brake line to maintain a firm pedal (~$26), > > # > # and you have to have > > # > # > power steering already. > > # > # > > > # > # > If you are interested... I do take paypal. Any questions? > > # > # > Thanks for reading and your interest, > > # > # > Elliott > > # > # > > > # > # > > > # > # > > > # > # _____________________________________________________________________________ > > # > # _______ > > # > # > Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows > > # > # on Yahoo! TV. > > # > # > http://tv.yahoo.com/ > > # > # > > # > # _________________________________________________________________ > > # > # Capture your memories in an online journal! > > # > # http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us > > # > # > > # > > > # > > # > > # > > # ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > # Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV. > > # http://tv.yahoo.com/ > > # > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 17:12:51 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: an omega update http://wagoneers.com/tmp/Omega/all.html work has resumed... oil lines/remote filter, exhaust, some wiring, odds and ends... 3" body lift allowed the dual battery configuration to sit under the body attached to the frame on each side... no pix yet. goes into the muffler shop late next week, might be home Oct 5/6 time frame... :) looking good... that brush guard makes any full size jeep look good. :) now I'll need to head back up to Mt. Baker/Shuksan to get some pictures like this: http://wagoneers.com/WJ/99WJ-pix-MtBaker-Sep07/ Hope Omega works out... looks like that one '99 Cherokee Limited (XJ) I have been watching finally sold... Keeping Shadowfax... my son will pay for insurance so he can use it to commute to college... :) later, john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2929 **************************