From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Nov 20 00:29:01 2007 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, November 20 2007 Volume 01 : Number 2956 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Convertor Recommendation for 78 Cherokee Re: fsj: Convertor Recommendation for 78 Cherokee fsj: load question RE: fsj: Convertor Recommendation for 78 Cherokee RE: fsj: Convertor Recommendation for 78 Cherokee RE: fsj: Convertor Recommendation for 78 Cherokee RE: fsj: Convertor Recommendation for 78 Cherokee RE: fsj: load question RE: fsj: load question fsj: RE: fsj-digest V1 #2955 FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 21:39:08 -0600 From: Zee Man Subject: fsj: Convertor Recommendation for 78 Cherokee Listers, I was contemplating putting my 401 out of my Gremlin in my Cherokee. I would like some recommendations on choosing the right convertor. While I wont be racing the pig, it just needs to get out of its own way. The current 401 cam is 222-232 -at- .050 duration with 513in 538ex. My current stall was a TCI Breakaway for the 727. This convertor just never felt right for my combo in the Gremlin.. Maybe just not high enough. I believe my tire diameter was 26in with 3:73 gears and a 727 TC..3180lbs.. My Cherokee Chief weighs plenty , currently has 3:73's with 31's ,but it may see 33's or 35's in the future...Anyway I am pretty sure its a turbo 400 transmission. It will spend most of its life on road as my daily driver. So does anyone have any experience or recommendations for this combo? Rob 77 Gremlin 40178 Cherokee Chief 36004 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Initiative now. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:14:33 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Convertor Recommendation for 78 Cherokee since the 401 came with a TH400 in the '70s, and the 401 was an AMC standard with 727's in the matadors and such, this shouldn't be rocket science, just a call to a decent tranny shop to get the correct info. they'll have a TC for both scenarios. wish my problems were this simple. ;) so, mr. zee man... whatcha gonna do with that little Gremlin? :) (like I need another project...) I've seen a 4x4 Gremlin out here and would love to set one up... I've been fascinated by the Gremlins ever since they came out... saw my first one at the car show in Chicago... was looking at a Pinto, and ended up with a '68 Mustang when my mom bought the Pinto and sold me the Mustang. :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com * ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 19 Nov 2007, Zee Man wrote: # Listers, I was contemplating putting my 401 out of my Gremlin in my # Cherokee. I would like some recommendations on choosing the right convertor. # While I wont be racing the pig, it just needs to get out of its own way. The # current 401 cam is 222-232 -at- .050 duration with 513in 538ex. My current stall # was a TCI Breakaway for the 727. This convertor just never felt right for my # combo in the Gremlin.. Maybe just not high enough. I believe my tire # diameter was 26in with 3:73 gears and a 727 TC..3180lbs.. My Cherokee Chief # weighs plenty , currently has 3:73's with 31's ,but it may see 33's or 35's in # the future...Anyway I am pretty sure its a turbo 400 transmission. It will # spend most of its life on road as my daily driver. So does anyone have any # experience or recommendations for this combo? Rob 77 Gremlin 40178 Cherokee # Chief 36004 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon # Initiative now. # http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:40:26 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: load question have a heavy item to carry in the back of my WJ. (99). it's dimensions are: 42" long, 27" tall, 20" wide, & Very HEAVY I figure it weighs around 600lbs. it's a welder generator... trading my warn winch for it. :) anyway, I measured the opening in the back, it's 31" tall... width and depth aren't a problem. it's got an Onan 2 cylinder engine attached to a 5KW generator/welder, so that's where the 600lbs comes in. we're planning on using a shop crane to put it in the back... I'm thinking we could put a piece of plywood on the floor of the jeep and then scoot the generator back in once it's on the board... you know, it's a portable unit, but I can't remember if it has wheels... if it does, this shouldn't be a big problem... right? or should I just hook up my 2,000lb hydraulic dump trailer and drag it the 60 miles up I-5 to retrieve it and not risk tearing up the inside of the WJ? hmmm... trailer, or wrestling match... will only save a couple of miles per gallon... trailer makes the most sense I guess... john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com * ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:56:30 -0600 From: Zee Man Subject: RE: fsj: Convertor Recommendation for 78 Cherokee The little Gremlin is getting a 406(if that was .040) makes it. I got Edelbrock heads,Edelbrock headers, a hair bigger cam 238-242 -at-050 i think, same lift . new balancer and timing cover and etc... I have been waiting to finish this thing for like 6 years... So my stupid gremlin better run 12's. We will see. How ever its in storage and although my engine is finished i probably wont actually put it it till my next vacation to texas.. i want to ship the engine thats in the gremlin now to Charleston to put in the Jeep. I am kicking around the idea of just going to a smaller cam. I just dont want to jack up the cam bearings and have to start all over again. If i was smart or normaL, i would find a new non gas and pocket book guzzling hobby. My three cars put together add up to 36mpg (I hope). I guess i will just be happy its not hitting $5 a gallon yet. Thanks Rob > Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:14:33 -0800> From: john-at-wagoneers.com> To: z_man401-at-hotmail.com> CC: fsj-digest-at-digest.net> Subject: Re: fsj: Convertor Recommendation for 78 Cherokee> > since the 401 came with a TH400 in the '70s, and the> 401 was an AMC standard with 727's in the matadors and such, this> shouldn't be rocket science, just a call to a decent tranny shop to> get the correct info. they'll have a TC for both scenarios.> > wish my problems were this simple. ;)> > so, mr. zee man... whatcha gonna do with that little Gremlin? :)> > (like I need another project...) I've seen a 4x4 Gremlin out> here and would love to set one up... I've been fascinated by> the Gremlins ever since they came out... saw my first one at> the car show in Chicago... was looking at a Pinto, and ended> up with a '68 Mustang when my mom bought the Pinto and sold> me the Mustang. :)> > john> > > -----> - ----------------------------------------------------------------------> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold> http://freegift.com * ** http://wagoneers.com **> - ----------------------------------------------------------------------> * there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution?> - ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > > On Mon, 19 Nov 2007, Zee Man wrote:> > # Listers, I was contemplating putting my 401 out of my Gremlin in my> # Cherokee. I would like some recommendations on choosing the right convertor.> # While I wont be racing the pig, it just needs to get out of its own way. The> # current 401 cam is 222-232 -at- .050 duration with 513in 538ex. My current stall> # was a TCI Breakaway for the 727. This convertor just never felt right for my> # combo in the Gremlin.. Maybe just not high enough. I believe my tire> # diameter was 26in with 3:73 gears and a 727 TC..3180lbs.. My Cherokee Chief> # weighs plenty , currently has 3:73's with 31's ,but it may see 33's or 35's in> # the future...Anyway I am pretty sure its a turbo 400 transmission. It will> # spend most of its life on road as my daily driver. So does anyone have any> # experience or recommendations for this combo? Rob 77 Gremlin 40178 Cherokee> # Chief 36004 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon> # Initiative now.> # http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM> # _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_112007 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 21:03:21 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: Convertor Recommendation for 78 Cherokee my son stuffed a Ford 460/c6 into his '74 Javelin... he's down in Tucson with it... it won't shift into third gear, the tranny shop wants about 1,200 to fix it... so he's thinking of driving it home, 1600 miles, in 2nd gear... that ought to use up a bit of gas, eh? :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com * ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 19 Nov 2007, Zee Man wrote: # The little Gremlin is getting a 406(if that was .040) makes it. I got # Edelbrock heads,Edelbrock headers, a hair bigger cam 238-242 -at-050 i think, # same lift . new balancer and timing cover and etc... I have been waiting to # finish this thing for like 6 years... So my stupid gremlin better run 12's. We # will see. How ever its in storage and although my engine is finished i # probably wont actually put it it till my next vacation to texas.. i want to # ship the engine thats in the gremlin now to Charleston to put in the Jeep. I # am kicking around the idea of just going to a smaller cam. I just dont want # to jack up the cam bearings and have to start all over again. If i was smart # or normaL, i would find a new non gas and pocket book guzzling hobby. My # three cars put together add up to 36mpg (I hope). I guess i will just be # happy its not hitting $5 a gallon yet. # # # # Thanks # Rob # # # # # # # # # > Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:14:33 -0800> From: john-at-wagoneers.com> To: # z_man401-at-hotmail.com> CC: fsj-digest-at-digest.net> Subject: Re: fsj: Convertor # Recommendation for 78 Cherokee> > since the 401 came with a TH400 in the '70s, # and the> 401 was an AMC standard with 727's in the matadors and such, this> # shouldn't be rocket science, just a call to a decent tranny shop to> get the # correct info. they'll have a TC for both scenarios.> > wish my problems were # this simple. ;)> > so, mr. zee man... whatcha gonna do with that little # Gremlin? :)> > (like I need another project...) I've seen a 4x4 Gremlin out> # here and would love to set one up... I've been fascinated by> the Gremlins # ever since they came out... saw my first one at> the car show in Chicago... # was looking at a Pinto, and ended> up with a '68 Mustang when my mom bought # the Pinto and sold> me the Mustang. :)> > john> > > -----> # ----------------------------------------------------------------------> # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold> # http://freegift.com * ** http://wagoneers.com **> # ----------------------------------------------------------------------> * # there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution?> # ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > > On # Mon, 19 Nov 2007, Zee Man wrote:> > # Listers, I was contemplating putting my # 401 out of my Gremlin in my> # Cherokee. I would like some recommendations on # choosing the right convertor.> # While I wont be racing the pig, it just needs # to get out of its own way. The> # current 401 cam is 222-232 -at- .050 duration # with 513in 538ex. My current stall> # was a TCI Breakaway for the 727. This # convertor just never felt right for my> # combo in the Gremlin.. Maybe just # not high enough. I believe my tire> # diameter was 26in with 3:73 gears and a # 727 TC..3180lbs.. My Cherokee Chief> # weighs plenty , currently has 3:73's # with 31's ,but it may see 33's or 35's in> # the future...Anyway I am pretty # sure its a turbo 400 transmission. It will> # spend most of its life on road # as my daily driver. So does anyone have any> # experience or recommendations # for this combo? Rob 77 Gremlin 40178 Cherokee> # Chief 36004 Jeep Wrangler # Rubicon> # Initiative now.> # # http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM> # # _________________________________________________________________ # Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. # http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_112007 # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:03:49 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Convertor Recommendation for 78 Cherokee A: Chances are the hose is off the modulator, the shifter isn't moving all the way or the pin inside the modulator is bent. Could also be a LPOS in the governor (easy to access if you take off the tail stock) or so much crud in the pan that it can't get enough pressure to upshift. Aside from that, a can of STP engine oil treatment often does wonders for 3 speed automatics! > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: z_man401-at-hotmail.com > CC: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: fsj: Convertor Recommendation for 78 Cherokee > > my son stuffed a Ford 460/c6 into his '74 Javelin... > he's down in Tucson with it... it won't shift into third gear, > the tranny shop wants about 1,200 to fix it... so he's thinking > of driving it home, 1600 miles, in 2nd gear... > > that ought to use up a bit of gas, eh? :) > > john _________________________________________________________________ Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista. + Windows Live^Y. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_M ediaCtr_bigscreen_102007 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:26:50 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Convertor Recommendation for 78 Cherokee What is the RPM band of your cam? (I can't recall how to figure that from the numbers and it also depends how you set the timing chain) That will determine what would be the best stall speed for your setup. On Mon, 19 Nov 2007, Zee Man wrote: # Listers, I was contemplating putting my 401 out of my Gremlin in my # Cherokee. I would like some recommendations on choosing the right convertor. # While I wont be racing the pig, it just needs to get out of its own way. The # current 401 cam is 222-232 -at- .050 duration with 513in 538ex. My current stall # was a TCI Breakaway for the 727. This convertor just never felt right for my # combo in the Gremlin.. Maybe just not high enough. I believe my tire # diameter was 26in with 3:73 gears and a 727 TC..3180lbs.. My Cherokee Chief # weighs plenty , currently has 3:73's with 31's ,but it may see 33's or 35's in # the future...Anyway I am pretty sure its a turbo 400 transmission. It will # spend most of its life on road as my daily driver. So does anyone have any # experience or recommendations for this combo? Rob 77 Gremlin 40178 Cherokee # Chief 36004 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon # Initiative now. # http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_sharelife_112007 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 07:01:41 +0000 From: michel balea Subject: RE: fsj: load question Go trailer... it will save the WJ, and more likely save your back as well... the last thing that you want to happen is to be idling w lower back pain..... this is what i have been doing for 2 weeks..... doing better.... managed to change the spark plugs.... all 9 of them.... the wagoneer and the moto....check and add fluids.... If you cannot unload....it can stay on the trailer.... Michel 74wag > Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:40:26 -0800 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com; fsj-at-digest.net; diesel-benz-at-digest.net; xj-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: load question > > have a heavy item to carry in the back of my WJ. (99). > > it's dimensions are: 42" long, 27" tall, 20" wide, & Very HEAVY > I figure it weighs around 600lbs. > > it's a welder generator... trading my warn winch for it. :) > > anyway, I measured the opening in the back, it's 31" tall... width > and depth aren't a problem. > > it's got an Onan 2 cylinder engine attached to a 5KW generator/welder, > so that's where the 600lbs comes in. > > we're planning on using a shop crane to put it in the back... I'm thinking > we could put a piece of plywood on the floor of the jeep and then scoot > the generator back in once it's on the board... > > you know, it's a portable unit, but I can't remember if it has wheels... if > it does, this shouldn't be a big problem... > > right? > > or should I just hook up my 2,000lb hydraulic dump trailer and drag it the 60 miles > up I-5 to retrieve it and not risk tearing up the inside of the WJ? > > hmmm... trailer, or wrestling match... will only save a couple of miles per gallon... > trailer makes the most sense I guess... > > john > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com * ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > * there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_112007 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 23:18:33 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: load question good advice... (I'm thinking about using an old wagoneer license plate holder on my trailer so I can put the tailgate down and still display the plates. :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com * ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 20 Nov 2007, michel balea wrote: # Go trailer... it will save the WJ, and more likely save your back as well... # the last thing that you want to happen is to be idling w lower back pain..... # this is what i have been doing for 2 weeks..... doing better.... managed to # change the spark plugs.... all 9 of them.... the wagoneer and the # moto....check and add fluids.... # # If you cannot unload....it can stay on the trailer.... # # Michel # 74wag # # > Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:40:26 -0800 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com; fsj-at-digest.net; diesel-benz-at-digest.net; # xj-at-digest.net # > Subject: fsj: load question # > # > have a heavy item to carry in the back of my WJ. (99). # > # > it's dimensions are: 42" long, 27" tall, 20" wide, & Very HEAVY # > I figure it weighs around 600lbs. # > # > it's a welder generator... trading my warn winch for it. :) # > # > anyway, I measured the opening in the back, it's 31" tall... width # > and depth aren't a problem. # > # > it's got an Onan 2 cylinder engine attached to a 5KW generator/welder, # > so that's where the 600lbs comes in. # > # > we're planning on using a shop crane to put it in the back... I'm thinking # > we could put a piece of plywood on the floor of the jeep and then scoot # > the generator back in once it's on the board... # > # > you know, it's a portable unit, but I can't remember if it has wheels... if # > it does, this shouldn't be a big problem... # > # > right? # > # > or should I just hook up my 2,000lb hydraulic dump trailer and drag it the # 60 miles # > up I-5 to retrieve it and not risk tearing up the inside of the WJ? # > # > hmmm... trailer, or wrestling match... will only save a couple of miles # per gallon... # > trailer makes the most sense I guess... # > # > john # > # > ----- # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://freegift.com * ** http://wagoneers.com ** # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > * there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the # solution? # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # # _________________________________________________________________ # Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. # http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_112007 # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 02:27:08 -0600 From: Zee Man Subject: fsj: RE: fsj-digest V1 #2955 I think my cam was or is 2500-5500 rpm in current 401, install straight up, with a 2600 rpm stall(TCI Breakaway), I did notice when the car is cold It sounds beautiful when backing outta the garage and its intial put in drive... Its slipps pretty high,, but when it gets to normal operating temp, its much lower. Because i am deployed right now,, I am away from my cam cards.. I dont remember what cam is actually my 401 right now.. I found soemthing that crane sent me, but i cant remember if that was for 401 #2 or was because he didnt have the grindcard for the custom grind he emailed me something close until i would receive the actual card with cam.. (hope that makes sense). I think i should have installed the current one with 4 degrees advanced in hindsite.. I still may go with a smaller cam. I just hate all the adjusting rockers, breaking cam in, adjusting rockers again and possibly scratching a cam bearing when changing the cam.. I am not a natural mechanic. So i am like extra careful.. MY Cherokee still has a fuel delivery problem and i have changed the fuel pump,new carb, blown air backwards through the line, I am thinking tank has to come down, It has 170,000 miles so its a good time to check stuff. Rob s the RPM band of your cam? (I can't recall how to figure that from the numbers and it also depends how you set the timing chain) That will determine what would be the best stall speed for your setup.On Mon, 19 Nov 2007, Zee Man wrote: # Listers, I was contemplating putting my 401 out of my Gremlin in my # Cherokee. I would like some recommendations on choosing the right convertor. # While I wont be racing the pig, it just needs to get out of its own way. The # current 401 cam is 222-232 -at- .050 duration with 513in 538ex. My current stall # was a TCI Breakaway for the 727. This convertor just never felt right for my # combo in the Gremlin.. Maybe just not high enough. I believe my tire # diameter was 26in with 3:73 gears and a 727 TC..3180lbs.. My Cherokee Chief # weighs plenty , currently has 3:73's with 31's ,but it may see 33's or 35's in # the future...Anyway I am pretty sure its a turbo 400 transmission. It will # spend most of its life on road as my daily driver. So does anyone have any # experience or recommendations for this combo? Rob 77 Gremlin 40178 Cherokee # Chief 36004 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon # Initiative now. _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_112007 ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2956 **************************