From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Feb 5 11:52:20 2008 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, February 5 2008 Volume 01 : Number 3003 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: fsj: Re: Build sheet fsj: re: Fuel Delivery Problems RETURN fsj: RE: Fuel Delivery Problems RETURN RE: fsj: re: Fuel Delivery Problems RETURN RE: fsj: re: Fuel Delivery Problems RETURN RE: fsj: Fuel Delivery Problems RETURN RE: fsj: re: Fuel Delivery Problems RETURN FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 22:42:20 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Re: Build sheet D30 is what Brian (can't think of his last name at the moment) had in the front of his '70 Wagoneer. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 20:25:17 -0800 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > CC: rice4pack-at-aol.com; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: fsj: Re: Build sheet > > yes on the DAna 27, not sure on the D30, would have to verify that wiht > my shop manuals... > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > there's a solution for every problem; > problem is can we afford the solution? > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Mon, 4 Feb 2008, Jim Blair wrote: > > # Dana 27 was the front axle for pre '70 Wagoneers (as well as D30 for a few > years) > # > # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > # > # > # > Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 19:35:30 -0800 > # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > # > To: rice4pack-at-aol.com > # > CC: fsj-at-digest.net > # > Subject: fsj: Re: Build sheet > # > > # > as far as I know they've always had Dana 44s in the rear of > # > the Wagoneers... up until about 80 when they switched to a Model 20. > # > I can check my shop manuals, have a wide range of 'em... > # > > # > build sheets are pretty rare, I've seen two or three between > # > SJ and XJ models. :) > # > > # > panel isn't actively on the market, but still for sale, my son > # > took the 35's off and it actually drives better. :) > # > > # > still trying to sell my '89 GW... and still trying to get > # > my '91 GW 6.2L Diesel primed... getting closer, every time > # > I visit Omega in the carport I crank and then look for fuel > # > dribbles... :) going to buy a starting type battery charger > # > tomorrow... > # > > # > I may just fix up all the wiring and then have him towed > # > to a Diesel shop and have him started up... never ever ever > # > run a Diesel out of fuel completely... it's a miserable experience > # > getting it reprimed... soon as you realize the fuel coming in > # > is gone and it studders, shut it off ASAP... I inherited this > # > problem... > # > > # > hey, look what I found: > # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/build-sheets.txt > # > anyway, here's some BUILD ORDERS and Summary sheets: > # > > # > FSJ (1989) Summary Sheets: > # > http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/SPECS-n-MISC/89GW_SummarySheet1.JPG > # > http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/SPECS-n-MISC/89GW_SummarySheet2.JPG > # > > # > FSJ (1984? - need to check the VIN) build order: > # > > http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/SPECS-n-MISC/vehicle-building-order.jpg > # > > # > > # > I really need to reorganize my website... almost done with Grad School, > # > Feb 16 is my last class and I'm done, then I'll have some time for > # > Jeeps, carport rebuilding and website updates. :) > # > > # > john > # > > # > ----- > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > there's a solution for every problem; > # > problem is can we afford the solution? > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > > # > > # > On Mon, 4 Feb 2008, rice4pack-at-aol.com wrote: > # > > # > # Hey John, > # > # > # > # I was just wondering if you've ever run across a build sheet for the > early Wagoneers like mine. If you have, how would I get one? > # > # > # > # The reason I ask is that I discovered that the rear axle in my Jeep is > a Dana 44, but the book shows only Dana 27's in the rear for the Wagoneer. > Dana 44's came in the half-ton pick-ups (according to my literature and the > shop manual). > # > # > # > # Both axles have the correct date codes (3/14/63 for the front and > 3/21/63 for the rear). > # > # > # > # By the way, how's the sale of your panel going? > # > # > # > # Thanks for checking on this. When you get a chance, let me know. > # > # > # > # Thanks. Bruce > # > # > ________________________________________________________________________ > # > # More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - > http://webmail.aol.com > # > # > # > # _________________________________________________________________ > # Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star > power. > # http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 08:54:14 -0800 (PST) From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: re: Fuel Delivery Problems RETURN When I was t/s these problems I just stuck a T on the line and ran the hose out of the engine bay under the bonnet lip, on the rear corner, and taped the pressure gauge to the wiper w/ duct tape. I know. It was totally GHETTO but hey, I kept a potential fuel leak outside the cabin and was able to watch pressures as I drove. What was REALLY ghetto was the timing gun I had run out the OTHER corner and taped to the cowl with the trigger rubber banded closed so I could watch and see if it was Fuel failing when it died or Ignition failing when it died. LOL Interestingly (this is with my '88) I only showed about 2-3psi in fuel pressure with it fluctuating between 1 and 2 when I. uh... "opened the throttle significantly". ;-) I had been expecting to get at least 6psi since I'm running an electric fuel pump with a rated pressure range of 6-9psi for my setup. (Vince Orr's old RezRunner w/ the Edelbrock. Edelbrock book says it should run about 6psi fuel pressure) But it never would run more than 3 psi and when the REAL problem was fixed, it ran and runs fine at that pressure. I surmised that this lower than expected pressure was due to the OEM design. ie. the 3rd nipple on the fuel filter. It seemed obvious to me that there was no chance of much higher pressure, as the fuel had an escape route back to the tank via that top connection on the filter. - --- michel balea wrote: > If you think fuel. i would put a mechanical fuel > gauge. > > Now for the kicker.... how do you route the fuel > line from the carb inlet to > the gauge so you can read it. > > I have some "issues" w my 85 project..... so i put a > fuel gauge... but was > debatting weather do drill a hole in the hood so i > can see what is happening. > Probably a hole thru the cowl/vent and resting below > the wiper arm. > > the 3rd nipple is at 12 o'clock.... and was reading > 3 psi..... > > sorry for the hijack... > > but in my case it is at idle... shortly after the > temp gauge reaches the green > band.... and a steep downhill..... well it is SF.... > basically i put in > neutral and open the throttle a tad... it will work. > > Michel > 74 wag > > > From: z_man401-at-hotmail.com > > To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > > Subject: fsj: Fuel Delivery Problems RETURN > > Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 18:30:27 -0600 > > > > I do not believe my luck... > > I have changed the filter in the tank, replaced > all the rubber all the way > up > > to the carb.. Today i was drivinga round and my > vehicle started to die like > it > > was running outta gas again... It has been running > so nice the last few > > weeks... anyway it seams to do this randomly... i > mean i was leaving lowes > > and it started to bog then runns absolutely > fine... I get it out on the > > interstate run 60 mph for 5 miles zero problems i > was driving about 40-50 > mph > > in soem traffic and then the thing starts to > die... it keeps running barely > > then it smooths out again.... So i am guessing > fuel pump or water.... any > > ideas? I have a glass filter and dont see anything > unusual in my filter at > > carb. > > > > thanks > > > > bob > > > > 78 Cherokee Chief > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word > scramble challenge with star > > power. > > > http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan > > _________________________________________________________________ > Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant > messaging. You IM, we give. > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join > JeepNut - ---------------------------------------------------------- '92 Cherokee Laredo, bought new, still in daily use... '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer - '81 AMC 360 -.030 over- Edelbrock Performer/1400 600cfm 4bbl, TFI System upgrade, TF727 -mild kit- NP229, D44's F/R -3:31- B.J.'s Offroad 6" kit/ drop pittman, stainless extended brake lines, ProComp 3000 shocks, Maxxis Buckshot 33x12.5x15 14 Spoke OEM Wagonwheels, IPF 65/55 lamps...and then some. - ---------------------------------------------------------- Registered Linux user #287453 ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 10:01:56 -0700 From: "Tesar Landon" Subject: fsj: RE: Fuel Delivery Problems RETURN It does sound like water settling out, but as you say, the filter looks ok. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Zee Man Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 6:30 PM To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net Subject: fsj: Fuel Delivery Problems RETURN I do not believe my luck... I have changed the filter in the tank, replaced all the rubber all the way up to the carb.. Today i was drivinga round and my vehicle started to die like it was running outta gas again... It has been running so nice the last few weeks... anyway it seams to do this randomly... i mean i was leaving lowes and it started to bog then runns absolutely fine... I get it out on the interstate run 60 mph for 5 miles zero problems i was driving about 40-50 mph in soem traffic and then the thing starts to die... it keeps running barely then it smooths out again.... So i am guessing fuel pump or water.... any ideas? I have a glass filter and dont see anything unusual in my filter at carb. thanks bob 78 Cherokee Chief _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_j an ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 17:49:14 +0000 From: michel balea Subject: RE: fsj: re: Fuel Delivery Problems RETURN I have the carter pump rated also at 4-6psi... and it does not quit even at 70+ mph for 10-15 minutes... it is just the oil level that drops.... time for a valve seal post. So what was your problem in the end... ignition/distributor/coil/module Michel > Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 08:54:14 -0800 > From: thejeepnut-at-yahoo.com > Subject: fsj: re: Fuel Delivery Problems RETURN > To: fsj-at-digest.net > > When I was t/s these problems I just stuck a T on the > line and ran the hose out of the engine bay under the > bonnet lip, on the rear corner, and taped the pressure > gauge to the wiper w/ duct tape. I know. It was > totally GHETTO but hey, I kept a potential fuel leak > outside the cabin and was able to watch pressures as I > drove. What was REALLY ghetto was the timing gun I > had run out the OTHER corner and taped to the cowl > with the trigger rubber banded closed so I could watch > and see if it was Fuel failing when it died or > Ignition failing when it died. LOL > > Interestingly (this is with my '88) I only showed > about 2-3psi in fuel pressure with it fluctuating > between 1 and 2 when I. uh... "opened the throttle > significantly". ;-) I had been expecting to get at > least 6psi since I'm running an electric fuel pump > with a rated pressure range of 6-9psi for my setup. > (Vince Orr's old RezRunner w/ the Edelbrock. > Edelbrock book says it should run about 6psi fuel > pressure) But it never would run more than 3 psi and > when the REAL problem was fixed, it ran and runs fine > at that pressure. > > I surmised that this lower than expected pressure was > due to the OEM design. ie. the 3rd nipple on the fuel > filter. It seemed obvious to me that there was no > chance of much higher pressure, as the fuel had an > escape route back to the tank via that top connection > on the filter. > > > > --- michel balea wrote: > > > If you think fuel. i would put a mechanical fuel > > gauge. > > > > Now for the kicker.... how do you route the fuel > > line from the carb inlet to > > the gauge so you can read it. > > > > I have some "issues" w my 85 project..... so i put a > > fuel gauge... but was > > debatting weather do drill a hole in the hood so i > > can see what is happening. > > Probably a hole thru the cowl/vent and resting below > > the wiper arm. > > > > the 3rd nipple is at 12 o'clock.... and was reading > > 3 psi..... > > > > sorry for the hijack... > > > > but in my case it is at idle... shortly after the > > temp gauge reaches the green > > band.... and a steep downhill..... well it is SF.... > > basically i put in > > neutral and open the throttle a tad... it will work. > > > > Michel > > 74 wag > > > > > From: z_man401-at-hotmail.com > > > To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > > > Subject: fsj: Fuel Delivery Problems RETURN > > > Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 18:30:27 -0600 > > > > > > I do not believe my luck... > > > I have changed the filter in the tank, replaced > > all the rubber all the way > > up > > > to the carb.. Today i was drivinga round and my > > vehicle started to die like > > it > > > was running outta gas again... It has been running > > so nice the last few > > > weeks... anyway it seams to do this randomly... i > > mean i was leaving lowes > > > and it started to bog then runns absolutely > > fine... I get it out on the > > > interstate run 60 mph for 5 miles zero problems i > > was driving about 40-50 > > mph > > > in soem traffic and then the thing starts to > > die... it keeps running barely > > > then it smooths out again.... So i am guessing > > fuel pump or water.... any > > > ideas? I have a glass filter and dont see anything > > unusual in my filter at > > > carb. > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > bob > > > > > > 78 Cherokee Chief > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word > > scramble challenge with star > > > power. > > > > > > http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant > > messaging. You IM, we give. > > > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join > > > > > JeepNut > ---------------------------------------------------------- > '92 Cherokee Laredo, bought new, still in daily use... > '87 Street Comanche #24/100 > '88 Grand Wagoneer > - '81 AMC 360 -.030 over- Edelbrock Performer/1400 600cfm 4bbl, > TFI System upgrade, TF727 -mild kit- NP229, D44's F/R -3:31- > B.J.'s Offroad 6" kit/ drop pittman, stainless extended brake lines, > ProComp 3000 shocks, Maxxis Buckshot 33x12.5x15 > 14 Spoke OEM Wagonwheels, IPF 65/55 lamps...and then some. > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Registered Linux user #287453 > > > _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping _________________________________________________________________ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail.-get your "fix". http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 10:13:18 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: re: Fuel Delivery Problems RETURN Sounds like the needle and seat of the carb weren't holding back enough pressure for it to get up to 6psi. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 08:54:14 -0800 > From: thejeepnut-at-yahoo.com > Subject: fsj: re: Fuel Delivery Problems RETURN > To: fsj-at-digest.net > > When I was t/s these problems I just stuck a T on the > line and ran the hose out of the engine bay under the > bonnet lip, on the rear corner, and taped the pressure > gauge to the wiper w/ duct tape. I know. It was > totally GHETTO but hey, I kept a potential fuel leak > outside the cabin and was able to watch pressures as I > drove. What was REALLY ghetto was the timing gun I > had run out the OTHER corner and taped to the cowl > with the trigger rubber banded closed so I could watch > and see if it was Fuel failing when it died or > Ignition failing when it died. LOL > > Interestingly (this is with my '88) I only showed > about 2-3psi in fuel pressure with it fluctuating > between 1 and 2 when I. uh... "opened the throttle > significantly". ;-) I had been expecting to get at > least 6psi since I'm running an electric fuel pump > with a rated pressure range of 6-9psi for my setup. > (Vince Orr's old RezRunner w/ the Edelbrock. > Edelbrock book says it should run about 6psi fuel > pressure) But it never would run more than 3 psi and > when the REAL problem was fixed, it ran and runs fine > at that pressure. > > I surmised that this lower than expected pressure was > due to the OEM design. ie. the 3rd nipple on the fuel > filter. It seemed obvious to me that there was no > chance of much higher pressure, as the fuel had an > escape route back to the tank via that top connection > on the filter. > > > > --- _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 11:38:24 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Fuel Delivery Problems RETURN It could be something is jamming the inlet valve open. If it's big enough the see in the filter, it's big enough to jam the valve open (then not pressure can build up. Or at least not enough to run hard) Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 From: z_man401-at-hotmail.com To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com Subject: RE: fsj: Fuel Delivery Problems RETURN Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 23:29:09 -0600 I like your idea... i did see some white solids in my glass filter,, sludge is usually black right? anyway it was only two small pieces. the pum p maybe teh culpret... i did buy a new little air compressor to change my valve seals so now i will get alittle more use out of it... I think i will crawl under it tomorrow or next day and check the lines at the tank to look for kinks. and do the blow back.. I do not smell gasoline seaping so everything should be good... Right now I am just glad this thing is running again... I found three bent push rods and a burnt or hole in one of my intake valves..my oil usage may have went down since i changed those valve stem seals.. It was ridiculous.. My jeep still smokes but only during hard acceleration,, and i think at 60mph my back window isnt getting as oily as it used to.... Oh its a motorcraft ignition... For the record i will defend the Prestolite I had that in my Gremlin for maybe 10+ years and it was always good.. I did upgrade to the Motorcraft just for giggles, I use the same distributor cap as an 1986 Mustang GT (big one)... thanks Bob _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 11:49:38 -0800 (PST) From: JeepNut Subject: RE: fsj: re: Fuel Delivery Problems RETURN You might be right about that. Since that time, I've mod'ed the carb for the Edelbrock Off-Road needles and seats cause the Waggie would choke out on steep inclines. Unfortunately I haven't been able to do much playing in the woods since I got them installed. But it could be that there would be an increased line pressure now. - --- Jim Blair wrote: > Sounds like the needle and seat of the carb weren't > holding back enough > pressure for it to get up to 6psi. > > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, > '84 Jeep J10 > > > > Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 08:54:14 -0800 > > From: thejeepnut-at-yahoo.com > > Subject: fsj: re: Fuel Delivery Problems RETURN > > To: fsj-at-digest.net > > > > When I was t/s these problems I just stuck a T on > the > > line and ran the hose out of the engine bay under > the > > bonnet lip, on the rear corner, and taped the > pressure > > gauge to the wiper w/ duct tape. I know. It was > > totally GHETTO but hey, I kept a potential fuel > leak > > outside the cabin and was able to watch pressures > as I > > drove. What was REALLY ghetto was the timing gun > I > > had run out the OTHER corner and taped to the cowl > > with the trigger rubber banded closed so I could > watch > > and see if it was Fuel failing when it died or > > Ignition failing when it died. LOL > > > > Interestingly (this is with my '88) I only showed > > about 2-3psi in fuel pressure with it fluctuating > > between 1 and 2 when I. uh... "opened the throttle > > significantly". ;-) I had been expecting to get > at > > least 6psi since I'm running an electric fuel pump > > with a rated pressure range of 6-9psi for my > setup. > > (Vince Orr's old RezRunner w/ the Edelbrock. > > Edelbrock book says it should run about 6psi fuel > > pressure) But it never would run more than 3 psi > and > > when the REAL problem was fixed, it ran and runs > fine > > at that pressure. > > > > I surmised that this lower than expected pressure > was > > due to the OEM design. ie. the 3rd nipple on the > fuel > > filter. It seemed obvious to me that there was no > > chance of much higher pressure, as the fuel had an > > escape route back to the tank via that top > connection > > on the filter. > > > > > > > > --- > > _________________________________________________________________ > Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. > http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 > JeepNut - ---------------------------------------------------------- '92 Cherokee Laredo, bought new, still in daily use... '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer - '81 AMC 360 -.030 over- Edelbrock Performer/1400 600cfm 4bbl, TFI System upgrade, TF727 -mild kit- NP229, D44's F/R -3:31- B.J.'s Offroad 6" kit/ drop pittman, stainless extended brake lines, ProComp 3000 shocks, Maxxis Buckshot 33x12.5x15 14 Spoke OEM Wagonwheels, IPF 65/55 lamps...and then some. - ---------------------------------------------------------- Registered Linux user #287453 ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3003 **************************