From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Feb 8 16:34:59 2008 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Saturday, February 9 2008 Volume 01 : Number 3005 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: Mercedes diesel in an XJ plans again fsj: Diesel dreams do come true... :) fsj: Re: Fw: Cool Advertisement RE: fsj: Re: Mercedes diesel in an XJ plans again fsj: Re: More AMC V8 Stroker Calculations Re: fsj: Re: More AMC V8 Stroker Calculations RE: fsj: Re: More AMC V8 Stroker Calculations fsj: [db] GM Building New Diesel Engine At Ohio Plant (fwd) RE: fsj: [db] GM Building New Diesel Engine At Ohio Plant (fwd) fsj: Diesel dreams... a day of vacation well spent... :) FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 10:43:40 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Mercedes diesel in an XJ plans again RE: Mercedes Diesel swap # http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=940087 main problems: - engine to transmission adaptation - or benz trans to jeep xfr case (most promisinig solution) - oil pan clearance to axle, need rear sump I chose to go with the 6.2L Diesel in my '91 Grand Wagoneer.. availability, familiarity, durability, simplicity, cost, it's a V8, my SJ had a V8... adapters available for GM to Jeep xfr cases. Motor mount kit and radiator available... I'll be gathering up pictures and details and do a full write up. basic parts needed beyond the 6.2L/700R4: - chevy big block motor mounts, $150 - chevy radiator for jeep, needs larger in/out, or adapters $250 - oil cooler $75-100 - novak adapter (forgot cost, probably around $450) - different exhaust downheader going to get the exhaust system installed tomorrow if I can take the day off. :) john one thread on the link provided by jim noted a lot of the issues: spinsession spinsession is offline NAXJA Forum User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Fenton, MI Posts: 10 Re: to swap or not to swap..... I too have been VERY interested in doing this. I think that there are others. If you find a shop who will make adapter plates for you, we might be able to drum up a group purchase to make it more worth their while. I believe that there are other concerns with this swap, however. I saw an MJ with a Merc. 5 cylinder in it, but his rig was 2wd and he just used the Mercedes trans. His major problem was clearance between the front differential housing and the oil pan. His MJ was originally 4wd, so he just swapped in the straight 2wd front axle without a pumpkin and his problem was solved. It's not just a matter of building a custom oil pan either though because the oil pump sits right where the clearance problem is. I saw one guy try to adapt an electric remote oil pump. He then built a custom oil pan similar to the XJ in shape. His engine seized after about 5000 miles, evidently he wasn't flowing enough oil. I saw another guy who pulled off this swap while keeping his 4wd. His solution was 8+" of lift and LONG bump stops to keep the differential off the oil pan. He built his own adapter plate and flywheel to bolt to the AX-15. He also wound up plating the entire front part of the frame with 1/4" steel after the first set of mounts shredded the XJ sheet metal. The last person I saw attempt this decided to mount the engine higher in the bay. This led to severe cutting of the trans tunnel, followed by a messy rebuild of the area. Then the paint on his hood fried because the motor was too close to it. Overall, that one was a hack job. I don't mean to discourage you, but I've done a lot of reading (and dreaming) about doing this conversion. It's just not as easy as coming up with an adapter plate (although that would be a major step in the right direction). If you can figure out a way to make it work, I will be the first to congratulate you, and then promptly copy you. Btw...for the record, the three examples I cited did make it work...sorta. It can be done! I park my 300 Wagon next to my XJ every day with the hope that one day the two might become one. lol Seriously though, if I can be of any help I'd love to work together on this. If you need pictures of either vehicle or have specific questions about the components, I'll do my best to lend a hand. Unless you're set on the Mercedes motor, I know that guys have pretty good success with the Cummins 4bt swap. Not nearly as pimp as popping the hood and seeing the Mercedes star though! Good luck! ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 6 Feb 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # These guys are getting around to it. Anyone got some ideas for them? # http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=940087 # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 14:02:28 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Diesel dreams do come true... :) On Thu, 7 Feb 2008, Tesar Landon wrote: # You started it w/o exhaust? I've never heard a diesel w/o exhaust # hooked up....that must've been LOUD. # wasn't that bad actually. :) of course it's got the collector pipes back to where a converter used to live... so they weren't open at the exhaust ports... still loud, my wife heard it in the house... on the other side of the house... past the garage and a myriad of gardens... with the windows closed and the TV on... about 100 feet away... :) tomorrow, airport welding... exhaust... taking a day off work to get Omega done. :) going home tonight to work on it... need the mental health time, it's crazy at work, grad school, school... :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 17:45:58 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Fw: Cool Advertisement I wonder if they weren't hacked... :) ...by Rube Goldberg. :) Take a look at http://producten.hema.nl/ HEMA's product page. john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? # Click on the link below and watch the full thing. # Why can't we have sights like that around here? # Glen # # ----- Original Message ----- # From: Carol Rubeck # To: Phil Dellner # Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:21 PM # Subject: Fwd: Cool Advertisement # # # # # # Now this is a way cool advertisement # # # # # HEMA is a Dutch department store. The first store opened on # # November 4, 1926, in Amsterdam . Now there are 150 stores all over # # The Netherlands . HEMA also has stores in Belgium, Luxembourg, and # # Germany . In June of this year, HEMA was sold to British # # Investment company Lion Capital. # # # # Take a look at HEMA's product page. # # You can't order anything and it's in Dutch but just wait a couple # # Of seconds and watch what happens. # # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 08:20:51 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Re: Mercedes diesel in an XJ plans again There is no need for a Novak adapter since all you would have to do is open the FSJ Tcase and swap in a Jeep input gear with the correct spline count (27 for 700R4) I picked up a Chev NP208 because I was going to do that with a TH400 in my '73 J4000. That's when I found out there was more than 1 spline count (TH400 comes with 32 spline) so that one sits in my parts pile (along with a Jeep NP208J and Ford NP208F) I'm going to be taking all my excess stuff to an upcoming swapmeet. > Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 10:43:40 -0800 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > CC: xj-at-digest.net; diesel-benz-at-digest.net; WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com; DZAshby-at-verizon.net; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: Re: Mercedes diesel in an XJ plans again > > RE: Mercedes Diesel swap > # http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=940087 > > main problems: > - engine to transmission adaptation > - or benz trans to jeep xfr case (most promisinig solution) > - oil pan clearance to axle, need rear sump > > I chose to go with the 6.2L Diesel in my '91 Grand Wagoneer.. availability, > familiarity, durability, simplicity, cost, it's a V8, my SJ had a V8... > adapters available for GM to Jeep xfr cases. > > Motor mount kit and radiator available... > > I'll be gathering up pictures and details and do a full write up. > > basic parts needed beyond the 6.2L/700R4: > - chevy big block motor mounts, $150 > - chevy radiator for jeep, needs larger in/out, or adapters $250 > - oil cooler $75-100 > - novak adapter (forgot cost, probably around $450) > - different exhaust downheader > > going to get the exhaust system installed tomorrow if I can take the day off. > :) > > john > _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 09:12:15 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: More AMC V8 Stroker Calculations JC Jones, not sure if he did strokers, but he was at Ouray, haven't talked to him for a while... his website is wagoneer.net he hasn't had the road warrior since before ouray... last truck he had was max. :) in other news, I'm off today, working on Omega... reasons why the 6.2 didn't start: - ran completely dry during install test - fuel solenoid not wired up correctly - aux tank setup incorrectly and used as source - battery cables on side terminal fell off... finally got it going after using an electric pump and the main tank, hotwiring the solenoid, reconnecting cables and buying a 200A starter/charger. :) taking it down to the muffler shop if it will move under it's own power... going to make a latte, wire up some stuff and see if it'll make it the 4 miles to the shop without getting me a ticket or a tow. :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 8 Feb 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # One of the guys that used to be on the main list was building AMC strokers. Been trying to remember his name (he was at Ouray because it was in his back yard) Golden Computer Services rings a bell. I'll CC John and see if he can remember. (my head injury is acting up again! Checked my email addies and I think it's J.C.Jones) # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # Re: More AMC V8 Stroker Calculations # Posted by: "Greg Taylor" amundaza-at-yahoo.com amundaza # Date: Thu Feb 7, 2008 12:09 pm ((PST)) # # Hey Bill, # Being able to run a 2.1 SBC journal, stroking the crank to 3.87" and running a KB 305 piston at 3.796" bore (0.060" over 305), nets 350.5 CID out of the 304. It seems that the H-beam rods would be best suited for a stroker and the SBC parts are cheap. # # More food for thought. # # Greg :) <>< # # _________________________________________________________________ # Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. # http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 09:20:08 -0800 (PST) From: elliott sydnam Subject: Re: fsj: Re: More AMC V8 Stroker Calculations If you are looking for a shop that builds strokers you can get ahold of MC at www.bulltear.com Look around his site and get hooked up with him there. Elliott - --- john wrote: > JC Jones, not sure if he did strokers, but he was at Ouray, > haven't talked to him for a while... > > his website is wagoneer.net he hasn't had the road > warrior since before ouray... last truck he had was max. :) > > in other news, I'm off today, working on Omega... > > reasons why the 6.2 didn't start: > - ran completely dry during install test > - fuel solenoid not wired up correctly > - aux tank setup incorrectly and used as source > - battery cables on side terminal fell off... > > finally got it going after using an electric pump and the > main tank, hotwiring the solenoid, reconnecting cables and > buying a 200A starter/charger. :) > > taking it down to the muffler shop if it will move under > it's own power... going to make a latte, wire up some stuff > and see if it'll make it the 4 miles to the shop without > getting me a ticket or a tow. :) > > john > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > there's a solution for every problem; > problem is can we afford the solution? > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Fri, 8 Feb 2008, Jim Blair wrote: > > # One of the guys that used to be on the main list was building AMC strokers. > Been trying to remember his name (he was at Ouray because it was in his back > yard) Golden Computer Services rings a bell. I'll CC John and see if he can > remember. (my head injury is acting up again! Checked my email addies and I > think it's J.C.Jones) > # > # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > # Re: More AMC V8 Stroker Calculations > # Posted by: "Greg Taylor" amundaza-at-yahoo.com amundaza > # Date: Thu Feb 7, 2008 12:09 pm ((PST)) > # > # Hey Bill, > # Being able to run a 2.1 SBC journal, stroking the crank to 3.87" and > running a KB 305 piston at 3.796" bore (0.060" over 305), nets 350.5 CID out > of the 304. It seems that the H-beam rods would be best suited for a stroker > and the SBC parts are cheap. > # > # More food for thought. > # > # Greg :) <>< > # > # _________________________________________________________________ > # Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we > give. > # http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 09:35:12 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Re: More AMC V8 Stroker Calculations I wrote him but the email bounced. I thought http://jtruck.net was his site? Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 09:12:15 -0800 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > CC: fsj-list-at-yahoogroups.com; fsj-at-digest.net; max-at-jtruck.net > Subject: fsj: Re: More AMC V8 Stroker Calculations > > JC Jones, not sure if he did strokers, but he was at Ouray, > haven't talked to him for a while... > > his website is wagoneer.net he hasn't had the road > warrior since before ouray... last truck he had was max. :) > > in other news, I'm off today, working on Omega... > > reasons why the 6.2 didn't start: > - ran completely dry during install test > - fuel solenoid not wired up correctly > - aux tank setup incorrectly and used as source > - battery cables on side terminal fell off... > > finally got it going after using an electric pump and the > main tank, hotwiring the solenoid, reconnecting cables and > buying a 200A starter/charger. :) > > taking it down to the muffler shop if it will move under > it's own power... going to make a latte, wire up some stuff > and see if it'll make it the 4 miles to the shop without > getting me a ticket or a tow. :) > > john > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > there's a solution for every problem; > problem is can we afford the solution? > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Fri, 8 Feb 2008, Jim Blair wrote: > > # One of the guys that used to be on the main list was building AMC strokers. > Been trying to remember his name (he was at Ouray because it was in his back > yard) Golden Computer Services rings a bell. I'll CC John and see if he can > remember. (my head injury is acting up again! Checked my email addies and I > think it's J.C.Jones) > # > # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > # Re: More AMC V8 Stroker Calculations > # Posted by: "Greg Taylor" amundaza-at-yahoo.com amundaza > # Date: Thu Feb 7, 2008 12:09 pm ((PST)) > # > # Hey Bill, > # Being able to run a 2.1 SBC journal, stroking the crank to 3.87" and > running a KB 305 piston at 3.796" bore (0.060" over 305), nets 350.5 CID out > of the 304. It seems that the H-beam rods would be best suited for a stroker > and the SBC parts are cheap. > # > # More food for thought. > # > # Greg :) <>< > # > # _________________________________________________________________ > # Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we > give. > # http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join _________________________________________________________________ Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! http://biggestloser.msn.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 09:49:03 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: [db] GM Building New Diesel Engine At Ohio Plant (fwd) http://www.manufacturing.net/News-GM-Building-New-Diesel-Engine-At-Ohio-Plant.aspx?menuid=36 does anyone know if the 6.6 will bolt up to a 700R4 that's mated to the 6.2? ;) need to get outside and finish up some wiring and a few other mechanical tasks, and Omega will be heading down the hill to the muffler shop... airport welding at harvey field on the south end of snohomish... only open during the weekdays... took the day off... worked on it last night and found the aux tank may be hooked up wrong... or it's gone bad which would be odd since it was working on superdawg... 7 years ago... ;) it's not pouring rain, in the 40s... wind warning which means we may get a storm later, but we'll see... heading out to the carport to get some quality wrench time in. :) of course, pictures to follow... will do a complete write up on this conversion project... used off the shelf parts for the most part... john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.manufacturing.net/News-GM-Building-New-Diesel-Engine-At-Ohio-Plant.aspx?menuid=36 Jim ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 09:52:10 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: [db] GM Building New Diesel Engine At Ohio Plant (fwd) It's probably an Isuzu patterned engine. Jim Blair > Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 09:49:03 -0800 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: fsj-at-digest.net; ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net; FParker24-at-verizon.net; diesel-benz-at-digest.net; xj-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: [db] GM Building New Diesel Engine At Ohio Plant (fwd) > > http://www.manufacturing.net/News-GM-Building-New-Diesel-Engine-At-Ohio-Plant .aspx?menuid=36 > > does anyone know if the 6.6 will bolt up to a 700R4 that's mated to the 6.2? ;) > > need to get outside and finish up some wiring and a few other mechanical > tasks, and Omega will be heading down the hill to the muffler shop... airport > welding at harvey field on the south end of snohomish... only open during > the weekdays... took the day off... worked on it last night and found the > aux tank may be hooked up wrong... or it's gone bad which would be odd since > it was working on superdawg... 7 years ago... ;) > > it's not pouring rain, in the 40s... wind warning which means we may get > a storm later, but we'll see... heading out to the carport to get some quality > wrench time in. :) > > of course, pictures to follow... will do a complete write up on this conversion > project... used off the shelf parts for the most part... > > john > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > there's a solution for every problem; > problem is can we afford the solution? > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > http://www.manufacturing.net/News-GM-Building-New-Diesel-Engine-At-Ohio-Plant .aspx?menuid=36 > > Jim _________________________________________________________________ Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! http://biggestloser.msn.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 16:33:47 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Diesel dreams... a day of vacation well spent... :) Omega is functional, more or less... Omega actually saw asphalt... (which is good, 4wd doesn't seem to work)... about 10 miles total... no flames, no pieces fell off... I'm back from Airport Welding... had a 3" pipe put into a 3" Magnaflow muffler, but we muzzled it down to the stock 2.5" tail pipe... until I can get a lift on the jeep a 3" would likely be reformed with the first bump I hit. :) should be fine as is... wasn't very loud going down with just an open collector. I got the wiring figured out to get it started and driving, still cutting holes in the dash for the glow plug light assy and will wire in the lights and such tomorrow. Not sure if I'm ready to start the stereo install or WJ seats until it's running right... ...it's not running very well... not sure if it's just because it's been sitting for so long or if the engine or injection pump is marginal. The trans doesn't seem to shift right either, but it was pretty low on fluid... added three quarts and it's still a smidgen low... haven't driven it since I added the last quart. no leaks in the coolant system, looks like a small oil leak on the front seal. Power Steering/brakes really need another belt. Guess I'll need to go to a wrecking yard to get a GM a/c pump so the belts and brackets are right... not sure what happened to the one on the truck, think it may have gone with the cab. :( If I can remember the guy's name he may have an extra unit. taking the night off... will be working on the '89 GW and my son's 74 javelin wiring tomorrow... :) a vacation day well spent. :) :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3005 **************************