From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Apr 9 07:53:56 2008 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, April 9 2008 Volume 01 : Number 3048 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: fsj: RE: first commute with the Diesel 1991 Grand Wagoneer fsj: RE: the Omega project RE: fsj: RE: first commute with the Diesel 1991 Grand Wagoneer RE: fsj: RE: first commute with the Diesel 1991 Grand Wagoneer fsj: RE: RE: the Omega project RE: fsj: RE: RE: the Omega project FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 07:32:11 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: RE: first commute with the Diesel 1991 Grand Wagoneer that's the dry weight complete. I'll swing by the scales, I know about what a GW weighs and know of another stock '91 we could compare with. ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 9 Apr 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # Does that include manifolds? How many gallons of oil? Is the filter standard sized? How big/heavy are the fuel filters? It does add up! (wish you'd gone across the scale bone stock before starting!) # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # # > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 00:00:35 -0700 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com # > CC: fsj-at-digest.net # > Subject: RE: fsj: RE: first commute with the Diesel 1991 Grand Wagoneer # > # > 650 lbs, Table 1-1, pg 1-4: # > http://wagoneers.com/DIESELS/6.2L_Diesel/ARMY_TM_9-2815-237-34_6.2L_REPAIR_manual.pdf # > # > STANDARD METRIC # > Dimensions: # > Length . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 in. 89 cm # > Width . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28 in. 71 cm # > Height . . . . . . . . . . . . 28 in. 71 cm # > New weight, dry . . . . . .. . 650 lbs 295 kg # > # > # > the AMC V8's weight is around 540lbs # > http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Engines/swapchart.html # > # > so there's 90lbs difference... # > # > ----- # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # > # > # That doesn't make much sense since the motor weighs more than a BBC (big block Chev) IIRC, # > the AMC 360 was 575 lbs dry complete. (anyone got a big fish scale? I'll have a 304 # > hanging from my engine hoist in a week or so. ) # > # # > # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # > # # > # > Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 16:01:07 -0700 # > # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > # > To: rbrooks-at-hvc.rr.com # > # > CC: diesel-benz-at-digest.net; fsj-at-digest.net # > # > Subject: fsj: RE: first commute with the Diesel 1991 Grand Wagoneer # > # > # > # > weight of the 6.2L Detroit Diesel is 650 lbs. # > # > # > # > I have heard of a 6BT being put in a Wagoneer... very little clearance # > # > underhood or above the axle... it was tight with the 6.2. # > # > # > # > The AMC 360 that came out weighed 640lbs if I recall correctly, give # > # > or take a bit... posted the accurate details earlier to the list. # > # > # > # > I got the weight out of a Technical manual for the engine. :) # > # > john # > # > # > # > On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Bob Brooks wrote: # > # > # > # > # John; # > # > # # > # > # I would think that with the lift you'd have the height for either a 6BT or a # > # > # 4BT. There are a couple of outfits that make conversion pcs to fit them # > # > # into GM and Ford trucks. # > # > # # > # > # Having towed with diesel pickups for a long time I find that the Cummins in # > # > # the Dodge seems to pull better and get better fuel mileage. Same trailer # > # > # and load over the same route. The Ford and Chevy got 7-8 miles to the # > # > # gallon less than the Dodge, And the Dodge was quicker. # > # > # # > # > # The Cummins 6BT is 906 lbs and the 4BT is 705, I think the 6.2 is about 830 # > # > # lbs. So the weights are pretty close. The Cummins is taller. # > # > # # > # > # Bob # > # > # # > # > # -----Original Message----- # > # > # From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] # > # > # Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:59 PM # > # > # To: Bob Brooks # > # > # Cc: full size jeep list # > # > # Subject: RE: first commute with the Diesel 1991 Grand Wagoneer # > # > # # > # > # the cummins is too tall, too heavy and too loud. # > # > # # > # > # I'm not familiar with the Ford/IH Diesels. # > # > # # > # > # I've had a few 6.2's and have been happy with them... they're # > # > # not powerhouses but they are affordable and reliable. # > # > # # > # > # john # > # > # # > # > # ----- # > # > # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > # http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # > # > # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Bob Brooks wrote: # > # > # # John: # > # > # # The Jeep looks really nice, congrats on the first outing!!! # > # > # # Just curious do you still think the 6.2 is the right engine for this jeep # > # > # # would a Cummins or Ford/ International have been better? # > # > # # Bob # > # > # # -----Original Message----- # # _________________________________________________________________ # More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger. # http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_instantaccess_042008 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 07:33:49 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: the Omega project I've got a selection of shafts here... maybe half a dozen. ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 9 Apr 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # I did a quick check for GM diesels at the pull a part, but rain started and drove me # out (I was still looking for a replacement rear driveshaft for my '87 Comanche. Got # any 43" long Ujoint center to Ujoint center? ) Near as I can figure, XJ 2wds came # with that exact size, but some ^%$%$#-at-* stole mine when my son did his GF's swap to 4x4! # Shops won't cut down the old MJ shaft because it has the rubber insert. # # # From: john # Subject: xj: the Omega project # # My son and I swapped in the last spring tonight... the driver's side rear, the # nut on the frame stayed where it was supposed to and we didn't have to drop the tank! # # Absolutely love working on a 17 year old Jeep that has NO RUST! # # Omega s running... I may drive it to work tomorrow... :) # # http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/04-Apr-05-after-glowplugs-Omega/ # # john # # # project highlights: # 1991 Grand Wagoneer - factory moonroof, pdl, pw, etc. # - - 6.2L Diesel - Novak mounts # - - 700R4 with Novak adapter to Jeep NP228 # - - new driveshafts and radiator # - - rebuilt injectors # - - 2" lift from BJs Offroad # - - Rancho 5000 shocks # - - dual tanks (bioDiesel and Diesel), may heat one eventually # - - factory brush guard with factory Marchall fog lamps and IPF driving lights # - - XJ center console # - - will have WJ seats # # Still need a GM a/c compressor and lines, and Tan heated leather WJ seats, # also thinking of putting two smaller bucket seats in the back in place of # the large rear bench to allow access to the rear without using the tailgate. :) # # ----- # _________________________________________________________________ # Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic. # http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=164&ocid=T003MSN51N1653A ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 10:28:46 -0400 From: "Bob Brooks" Subject: RE: fsj: RE: first commute with the Diesel 1991 Grand Wagoneer John; Thanks, I'm just curious. Bob - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:32 AM To: Jim Blair Cc: local Jeep list Subject: RE: fsj: RE: first commute with the Diesel 1991 Grand Wagoneer that's the dry weight complete. I'll swing by the scales, I know about what a GW weighs and know of another stock '91 we could compare with. ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 9 Apr 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # Does that include manifolds? How many gallons of oil? Is the filter standard sized? How big/heavy are the fuel filters? It does add up! (wish you'd gone across the scale bone stock before starting!) # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # # > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 00:00:35 -0700 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com # > CC: fsj-at-digest.net # > Subject: RE: fsj: RE: first commute with the Diesel 1991 Grand Wagoneer # > # > 650 lbs, Table 1-1, pg 1-4: # > http://wagoneers.com/DIESELS/6.2L_Diesel/ARMY_TM_9-2815-237-34_6.2L_REPAIR_m anual.pdf # > # > STANDARD METRIC # > Dimensions: # > Length . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 in. 89 cm # > Width . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28 in. 71 cm # > Height . . . . . . . . . . . . 28 in. 71 cm # > New weight, dry . . . . . .. . 650 lbs 295 kg # > # > # > the AMC V8's weight is around 540lbs # > http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Engines/swapchart.html # > # > so there's 90lbs difference... # > # > ----- # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # > # > # That doesn't make much sense since the motor weighs more than a BBC (big block Chev) IIRC, # > the AMC 360 was 575 lbs dry complete. (anyone got a big fish scale? I'll have a 304 # > hanging from my engine hoist in a week or so. ) # > # # > # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # > # # > # > Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 16:01:07 -0700 # > # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > # > To: rbrooks-at-hvc.rr.com # > # > CC: diesel-benz-at-digest.net; fsj-at-digest.net # > # > Subject: fsj: RE: first commute with the Diesel 1991 Grand Wagoneer # > # > # > # > weight of the 6.2L Detroit Diesel is 650 lbs. # > # > # > # > I have heard of a 6BT being put in a Wagoneer... very little clearance # > # > underhood or above the axle... it was tight with the 6.2. # > # > # > # > The AMC 360 that came out weighed 640lbs if I recall correctly, give # > # > or take a bit... posted the accurate details earlier to the list. # > # > # > # > I got the weight out of a Technical manual for the engine. :) # > # > john # > # > # > # > On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Bob Brooks wrote: # > # > # > # > # John; # > # > # # > # > # I would think that with the lift you'd have the height for either a 6BT or a # > # > # 4BT. There are a couple of outfits that make conversion pcs to fit them # > # > # into GM and Ford trucks. # > # > # # > # > # Having towed with diesel pickups for a long time I find that the Cummins in # > # > # the Dodge seems to pull better and get better fuel mileage. Same trailer # > # > # and load over the same route. The Ford and Chevy got 7-8 miles to the # > # > # gallon less than the Dodge, And the Dodge was quicker. # > # > # # > # > # The Cummins 6BT is 906 lbs and the 4BT is 705, I think the 6.2 is about 830 # > # > # lbs. So the weights are pretty close. The Cummins is taller. # > # > # # > # > # Bob # > # > # # > # > # -----Original Message----- # > # > # From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] # > # > # Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:59 PM # > # > # To: Bob Brooks # > # > # Cc: full size jeep list # > # > # Subject: RE: first commute with the Diesel 1991 Grand Wagoneer # > # > # # > # > # the cummins is too tall, too heavy and too loud. # > # > # # > # > # I'm not familiar with the Ford/IH Diesels. # > # > # # > # > # I've had a few 6.2's and have been happy with them... they're # > # > # not powerhouses but they are affordable and reliable. # > # > # # > # > # john # > # > # # > # > # ----- # > # > # - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > # http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # > # > # - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Bob Brooks wrote: # > # > # # John: # > # > # # The Jeep looks really nice, congrats on the first outing!!! # > # > # # Just curious do you still think the 6.2 is the right engine for this jeep # > # > # # would a Cummins or Ford/ International have been better? # > # > # # Bob # > # > # # -----Original Message----- # # _________________________________________________________________ # More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger. # http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh _instantaccess_042008 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 07:37:50 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: RE: first commute with the Diesel 1991 Grand Wagoneer we all are. :) ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 9 Apr 2008, Bob Brooks wrote: # John; # # Thanks, I'm just curious. # # Bob # # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john # Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:32 AM # To: Jim Blair # Cc: local Jeep list # Subject: RE: fsj: RE: first commute with the Diesel 1991 Grand Wagoneer # # that's the dry weight complete. # # I'll swing by the scales, I know about # what a GW weighs and know of another # stock '91 we could compare with. # # ----- # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # # # On Wed, 9 Apr 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # # # Does that include manifolds? How many gallons of oil? Is the filter # standard sized? How big/heavy are the fuel filters? It does add up! (wish # you'd gone across the scale bone stock before starting!) # # # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # # # # # > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 00:00:35 -0700 # # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # # > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com # # > CC: fsj-at-digest.net # # > Subject: RE: fsj: RE: first commute with the Diesel 1991 Grand Wagoneer # # > # # > 650 lbs, Table 1-1, pg 1-4: # # > # http://wagoneers.com/DIESELS/6.2L_Diesel/ARMY_TM_9-2815-237-34_6.2L_REPAIR_m # anual.pdf # # > # # > STANDARD METRIC # # > Dimensions: # # > Length . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 in. 89 cm # # > Width . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28 in. 71 cm # # > Height . . . . . . . . . . . . 28 in. 71 cm # # > New weight, dry . . . . . .. . 650 lbs 295 kg # # > # # > # # > the AMC V8's weight is around 540lbs # # > http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Engines/swapchart.html # # > # # > so there's 90lbs difference... # # > # # > ----- # # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # # > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** # # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # # > # # > On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # # > # # > # That doesn't make much sense since the motor weighs more than a BBC # (big block Chev) IIRC, # # > the AMC 360 was 575 lbs dry complete. (anyone got a big fish scale? # I'll have a 304 # # > hanging from my engine hoist in a week or so. ) # # > # # # > # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # > # # # > # > Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 16:01:07 -0700 # # > # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # # > # > To: rbrooks-at-hvc.rr.com # # > # > CC: diesel-benz-at-digest.net; fsj-at-digest.net # # > # > Subject: fsj: RE: first commute with the Diesel 1991 Grand # Wagoneer # # > # > # # > # > weight of the 6.2L Detroit Diesel is 650 lbs. # # > # > # # > # > I have heard of a 6BT being put in a Wagoneer... very little # clearance # # > # > underhood or above the axle... it was tight with the 6.2. # # > # > # # > # > The AMC 360 that came out weighed 640lbs if I recall correctly, # give # # > # > or take a bit... posted the accurate details earlier to the list. # # > # > # # > # > I got the weight out of a Technical manual for the engine. :) # # > # > john # # > # > # # > # > On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Bob Brooks wrote: # # > # > # # > # > # John; # # > # > # # # > # > # I would think that with the lift you'd have the height for # either a 6BT or a # # > # > # 4BT. There are a couple of outfits that make conversion pcs to # fit them # # > # > # into GM and Ford trucks. # # > # > # # # > # > # Having towed with diesel pickups for a long time I find that # the Cummins in # # > # > # the Dodge seems to pull better and get better fuel mileage. # Same trailer # # > # > # and load over the same route. The Ford and Chevy got 7-8 miles # to the # # > # > # gallon less than the Dodge, And the Dodge was quicker. # # > # > # # # > # > # The Cummins 6BT is 906 lbs and the 4BT is 705, I think the 6.2 # is about 830 # # > # > # lbs. So the weights are pretty close. The Cummins is taller. # # > # > # # # > # > # Bob # # > # > # # # > # > # -----Original Message----- # # > # > # From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] # # > # > # Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:59 PM # # > # > # To: Bob Brooks # # > # > # Cc: full size jeep list # # > # > # Subject: RE: first commute with the Diesel 1991 Grand Wagoneer # # > # > # # # > # > # the cummins is too tall, too heavy and too loud. # # > # > # # # > # > # I'm not familiar with the Ford/IH Diesels. # # > # > # # # > # > # I've had a few 6.2's and have been happy with them... they're # # > # > # not powerhouses but they are affordable and reliable. # # > # > # # # > # > # john # # > # > # # # > # > # ----- # # > # > # # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # # > # > # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they # mold # # > # > # http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com # ** # # > # > # # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # # > # > # On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Bob Brooks wrote: # # > # > # # John: # # > # > # # The Jeep looks really nice, congrats on the first outing!!! # # > # > # # Just curious do you still think the 6.2 is the right engine # for this jeep # # > # > # # would a Cummins or Ford/ International have been better? # # > # > # # Bob # # > # > # # -----Original Message----- # # # # _________________________________________________________________ # # More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live # Messenger. # # # http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh # _instantaccess_042008 # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 10:30:34 -0400 From: "Bob Brooks" Subject: fsj: RE: RE: the Omega project Jim; The shop should be willing to make a new one, but they tend to be very pricey. I've cut down quite a few over the years with out a problem. But you need to make sure it's done right!! Bob - -----Original Message----- From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Jim Blair Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 3:08 AM To: xj-at-digest.net; john Meister; local Jeep list Subject: xj: RE: the Omega project I did a quick check for GM diesels at the pull a part, but rain started and drove me out (I was still looking for a replacement rear driveshaft for my '87 Comanche. Got any 43" long Ujoint center to Ujoint center? ) Near as I can figure, XJ 2wds came with that exact size, but some ^%$%$#-at-* stole mine when my son did his GF's swap to 4x4! Shops won't cut down the old MJ shaft because it has the rubber insert. From: john Subject: xj: the Omega project My son and I swapped in the last spring tonight... the driver's side rear, the nut on the frame stayed where it was supposed to and we didn't have to drop the tank! Absolutely love working on a 17 year old Jeep that has NO RUST! Omega s running... I may drive it to work tomorrow... :) http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/04-Apr-05-after-glowplugs-Omega/ john project highlights: 1991 Grand Wagoneer - factory moonroof, pdl, pw, etc. - - - 6.2L Diesel - Novak mounts - - - 700R4 with Novak adapter to Jeep NP228 - - - new driveshafts and radiator - - - rebuilt injectors - - - 2" lift from BJs Offroad - - - Rancho 5000 shocks - - - dual tanks (bioDiesel and Diesel), may heat one eventually - - - factory brush guard with factory Marchall fog lamps and IPF driving lights - - - XJ center console - - - will have WJ seats Still need a GM a/c compressor and lines, and Tan heated leather WJ seats, also thinking of putting two smaller bucket seats in the back in place of the large rear bench to allow access to the rear without using the tailgate. :) ----- _________________________________________________________________ Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic. http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=164&ocid=T003MSN51N165 3 A ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 07:45:56 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: RE: RE: the Omega project To take the ends I have and put in a new tube will cost $350! (I can get a Tom Woods shaft cheaper!) and that doesn't include Ujoints! Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > From: rbrooks-at-hvc.rr.com > To: xj-at-digest.net; john-at-wagoneers.com; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: RE: RE: the Omega project > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 10:30:34 -0400 > > Jim; > > The shop should be willing to make a new one, but they tend to be very > pricey. > > I've cut down quite a few over the years with out a problem. But you need > to make sure it's done right!! > > Bob > > _________________________________________________________________ Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic. http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=164&ocid=T003MSN51N1653 A ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3048 **************************