From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Jun 24 10:08:00 2008 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, June 24 2008 Volume 01 : Number 3104 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: RE: Re: [db] F250 Diesel 4x4? Re: fsj: solution from so cal big tank RE: fsj: wjs, trailers, towing capacity of a 300D? RE: fsj: wjs, trailers, towing capacity of a 300D? FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:53:30 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: RE: Re: [db] F250 Diesel 4x4? the dodge pickups are best described by one test report: a bullet proof engine attached to a frame made of spagetti. but then there is my test drive to Mt.Vernon: My neighbor has a '97 I was considering... it isn't a truck, it's a freaking freight train... trying to turn that thing was like trying to berth the queen mary... coming off the trestle heading to north I-5 scared me... I turned the wheel and it kept going straight... I don't think it was understeering... it just wasn't steering. :) turning it around required four flaggers and a football field... the ride was naseauting... so, yes, I have considered them... the engine is very heavy, very noisy, but one of the very best... my 6.2L Diesel is quite happy in my Grand Wagoneer... just need to dial in the fuel system setup so it works better... change out the motor mounts and deal with the chassis vibrations... if I need more power I could always adapt a banks setup. ;) or swap in a 6.5, but that doesn't seem like a good option considering some of the feedback I've gotten... the electronic fuel pump could be replaced with a 6.2 or the electronics could be moved away from the engine... anyway... after looking at some of the options, the F250 might not be a bad solution for me, but if the mileage isn't good in town I'm better off with my Grand Wagoneer... and keeping the WJ for the long trips... and the 300D for local stuff... my wife is consistently getting 30 mpg in town with it, while I only get about 28... this morning I drove in slower... thinking about ron's experience with a lighter foot and a more relaxed pace... My dream would be to maintain about 18 mpg in town with the '91 Grand Wagoneer... fortunately have several sources of wvo now... :) Love my Diesels... PTL and eat your fries please... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, Joe Hughes wrote: # Have you looked into a Cummins powered Dodge? The bottom ends in those # motors are bullet proof. The first gens are all mechanical and it's not # uncommon to get 20-30% more power by turning some screws on the pump. # # They're probably a little better MPG than the 7.3L, but not much. # # Joe Hughes # Everett, WA # 50 Willys pickup, Cummins 3.9L 4bt on a 74 Cherokee chassis # 00 JGC Ltd. 4.7L # 94 BMW 540i e34 6-spd 4.0L # 88 Honda CBR-600 <- Currently DD # # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john # Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 8:34 AM # To: jasonbassett-at-juno.com # Cc: full size jeep list; ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net; diesel-benz list # Subject: fsj: Re: [db] F250 Diesel 4x4? # # so what year extended cab, SHORT box F250 Diesel 4x4 # would I want to get to run wvo/bioD and Diesel? # # my Grand Wagoneer gets 16 in town and 24 on the freeway... not # much sense in moving to an F250 if it doesn't get at least 18 in # town... # # the other unresolved issue with the ride comfort... # # remaining issues on my GW: a/c wiring, cruise control cable bracket, # engine vibration reduction via stock mounts... maybe new carpeting... # # that little bantam jeep trailer seems to still be available, that # might be handy for moving wvo around... need to call the guy... # # would my 300D be able to tow a 600lb trailer with maybe another # 300lbs of wvo in it? 1,000lbs??? # # would a TDI be able to tow it? :) # # sounds like a possible solution to the oil movement problem... :) # # appreciate the wisdom of the list... you guys are fantastic. # # john # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # # # On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: # # # There's something wrong with his. He should be getting more like # 13/18-16/22 # # city/freeway. Then again, his could be suffering from a bad case of "lead # foot # # syndrome." 8^) Those powerchokes will suck the fuel down FAST with your # foot # # on the floor. # # # # If you want to fool with the fuel though, DO AVOID the PowerChoke # diesels. # # They are fussy and expensive. The pre-powerchoke 7.3 turbo was a much # less # # fussy engine. Actually, the normally-aspirated version wasn't bad. I've # driven # # 2, and am actually very deeply involved with one right now (moving....) # and # # it's not the dog most people think NA diesels are. # # # # And the 6.9 was great, but they stopped making that in the 80s. # # # # J # # # # -- john wrote: # # saw a 99 on craigslist, emailed the # # guy... 13 hwy, 10 in town... say what? # # I think his was a 7.3... larger tires # # and lift... he didn't adjust his speedo... # # but still, that's horrible... # # # # that and my wife refuses to part with the grand # # cherokee (wj)... # # # # guess if I do find an econo f250 it'll # # only be my grand wag that goes... # # # # the adventure continues... # # # # ----- # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # # http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # # SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # # # # # # On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: # # # # # This is my primary reason for sticking with an IDI. # # # You can build very nice IDIs. I'd get an early '94 # # # with factory turbo, put in the larger downpipe and go! # # # # # # Or get a Cummins! # # # # # # ;) # # # # # # Jim # # # # # # > Biggest problem I see with you having a powerstroke # # # > of that vintage is that the injectors are $250-300 # # # > each, and with ford issuing bulletins not # # # recommending # # # > biodiesel (much less SVO/WVO) in higher # # # concentrations # # # > than 5% or so, I wouldn't consider a first gen # # # > powerstroke for an alternative fuels vehicle. # # # # # # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:58:30 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: solution from so cal big tank let's see... I saw a 100 gallon tank on craigslist... combined with the existing 40 gallons I have... at 24 mpg on the freeway... 1,700 miles down and back, 3,400 miles... 140 gallons * 24 = 3,360 miles - 3,400 miles... oh drat, would have to cover 40 miles at $5.00 or so... actually, my uncle in Canyon Country, CA said Diesel was $5.99 down there... I wonder if that was a mistake... Actually, I've secured a few more veggie oil sources... almost time to consider a fuel heating system to supplement the biodiesel... :) guess it won't matter if I'm only getting 16 instead of 18 in town... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, michel balea wrote: # $2.50 a gal for gas so of the border. (in the Wall Street J).... people are # starting to put big tanks and drive south for the weekend.... I wonder about # the waiting in line to come back. # # Solution: put a big hose accross the border # # Michel # # > From: joe-at-j-hughes.com # > To: fsj-at-digest.net # > Subject: fsj: RE: Re: [db] F250 Diesel 4x4? # > Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:47:35 -0700 # > # > Have you looked into a Cummins powered Dodge? The bottom ends in those # > motors are bullet proof. The first gens are all mechanical and it's not # > uncommon to get 20-30% more power by turning some screws on the pump. # > # > They're probably a little better MPG than the 7.3L, but not much. # > # > Joe Hughes # > Everett, WA # > 50 Willys pickup, Cummins 3.9L 4bt on a 74 Cherokee chassis # > 00 JGC Ltd. 4.7L # > 94 BMW 540i e34 6-spd 4.0L # > 88 Honda CBR-600 <- Currently DD # > # > -----Original Message----- # > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john # > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 8:34 AM # > To: jasonbassett-at-juno.com # > Cc: full size jeep list; ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net; diesel-benz list # > Subject: fsj: Re: [db] F250 Diesel 4x4? # > # > so what year extended cab, SHORT box F250 Diesel 4x4 # > would I want to get to run wvo/bioD and Diesel? # > # > my Grand Wagoneer gets 16 in town and 24 on the freeway... not # > much sense in moving to an F250 if it doesn't get at least 18 in # > town... # > # > the other unresolved issue with the ride comfort... # > # > remaining issues on my GW: a/c wiring, cruise control cable bracket, # > engine vibration reduction via stock mounts... maybe new carpeting... # > # > that little bantam jeep trailer seems to still be available, that # > might be handy for moving wvo around... need to call the guy... # > # > would my 300D be able to tow a 600lb trailer with maybe another # > 300lbs of wvo in it? 1,000lbs??? # > # > would a TDI be able to tow it? :) # > # > sounds like a possible solution to the oil movement problem... :) # > # > appreciate the wisdom of the list... you guys are fantastic. # > # > john # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: # > # > # There's something wrong with his. He should be getting more like # > 13/18-16/22 # > # city/freeway. Then again, his could be suffering from a bad case of # "lead # > foot # > # syndrome." 8^) Those powerchokes will suck the fuel down FAST with your # > foot # > # on the floor. # > # # > # If you want to fool with the fuel though, DO AVOID the PowerChoke # > diesels. # > # They are fussy and expensive. The pre-powerchoke 7.3 turbo was a much # > less # > # fussy engine. Actually, the normally-aspirated version wasn't bad. I've # > driven # > # 2, and am actually very deeply involved with one right now (moving....) # > and # > # it's not the dog most people think NA diesels are. # > # # > # And the 6.9 was great, but they stopped making that in the 80s. # > # # > # J # > # # > # -- john wrote: # > # saw a 99 on craigslist, emailed the # > # guy... 13 hwy, 10 in town... say what? # > # I think his was a 7.3... larger tires # > # and lift... he didn't adjust his speedo... # > # but still, that's horrible... # > # # > # that and my wife refuses to part with the grand # > # cherokee (wj)... # > # # > # guess if I do find an econo f250 it'll # > # only be my grand wag that goes... # > # # > # the adventure continues... # > # # > # ----- # > # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # > # SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # > # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # # > # # > # On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: # > # # > # # This is my primary reason for sticking with an IDI. # > # # You can build very nice IDIs. I'd get an early '94 # > # # with factory turbo, put in the larger downpipe and go! # > # # # > # # Or get a Cummins! # > # # # > # # ;) # > # # # > # # Jim # > # # # > # # > Biggest problem I see with you having a powerstroke # > # # > of that vintage is that the injectors are $250-300 # > # # > each, and with ford issuing bulletins not # > # # recommending # > # # > biodiesel (much less SVO/WVO) in higher # > # # concentrations # > # # > than 5% or so, I wouldn't consider a first gen # > # # > powerstroke for an alternative fuels vehicle. # > # # # > # # # _________________________________________________________________ # The other season of giving begins 6/24/08. Check out the i^Rm Talkathon. # http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_SeasonOfGiving # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:59:54 +0000 From: michel balea Subject: RE: fsj: wjs, trailers, towing capacity of a 300D? bantam trailers: seems like a good option, I looked for one to transport the off-road bikes but a weenie bit too short, the best deals are North, on the south west asking is usually $1200-1800. I trailered an M102, shortened all around w 16" wheel... very nice off-road... a bit heavy especially w the 2.67 gearing and going up donner pass. There are a few good groups which i lost the bookmarks after swapping OS from XP 2 Linux, it is somewhere on the back up disk. a yahoo group is a M101 and the other is a military/toy civilian board w all the goodies for sale. Michel > Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:40:08 -0700 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: joe-at-j-hughes.com > CC: diesel-benz-at-digest.net; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: wjs, trailers, towing capacity of a 300D? > > the WJs are fantastic... chrysler really screwed up with the WK. > > looking for a pair of tan heated leather seats out of a Limited WJ - 99-04... > > I've towed around 8K behind my wj... 2,000lb trailer with 2+ yards of gravel... > it has surge brakes, but they're broke. :) Towed the panel > and the grand wag behind the WJ... had the panel a bit too far back > on a very large equipment trailer, it was a little spooky... the grand > wag was on a uhaul car trailer, better distribution, felt much better. > > thinking of getting an old bantam trailer for hauling wvo around... I'm > wondering what my '91 300D is capable of towing... those old bantams are around > 600lbs empty... found a whole nest of them at MM 3 on I-84 at the Idaho Motor Pool. > they want too much for them though. :) > > john > snohomish, wa > 91 grand wag 6.2 - DD 16/24 > 91 300D 2.5L TD - wife is driving 30/35+ > 99 wj laredo 4.7 - interstate cruiser/family snow machine 15/~20 > 83 j10 no engine right now - had 4.2 ~15-17 > 75 j10 -hydraulic dump trailer > 67 j100 panel - holding for son's graduation from college (he actually started!) > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, Joe Hughes wrote: > > # My wife won't part with hers either, unless it's for a Mini. I've been > # trying to get my wife to trade the WJ in for a 7.3L Excursion, but she > # doesn't want anything to do with it. > # > # I've been hauling a 6K lb trailer on the weekends with the WJ for the last > # few months. I've put trailer brakes, and air bags in it. It works, but it > # still sways a bit. > # > # Joe Hughes > # Everett, WA > # 50 Willys pickup, Cummins 3.9L 4bt on a 74 Cherokee chassis > # 00 JGC Ltd. 4.7L > # 94 BMW 540i e34 6-spd 4.0L > # 88 Honda CBR-600 <- Current DD > # > # -----Original Message----- > # From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john > # Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 7:45 AM > # To: Jim Hoffman > # Cc: diesel-benz list; full size jeep list; ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net > # Subject: fsj: Re: [db] F250 Diesel 4x4? > # > # saw a 99 on craigslist, emailed the > # guy... 13 hwy, 10 in town... say what? > # I think his was a 7.3... larger tires > # and lift... he didn't adjust his speedo... > # but still, that's horrible... > # > # that and my wife refuses to part with the grand > # cherokee (wj)... > # > # guess if I do find an econo f250 it'll > # only be my grand wag that goes... > # > # the adventure continues... > # > # ----- > # - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ > # SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL > # - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > # > # On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: > # > # # This is my primary reason for sticking with an IDI. > # # You can build very nice IDIs. I'd get an early '94 > # # with factory turbo, put in the larger downpipe and go! > # # > # # Or get a Cummins! > # # > # # ;) > # # > # # Jim > # # > # # > Biggest problem I see with you having a powerstroke > # # > of that vintage is that the injectors are $250-300 > # # > each, and with ford issuing bulletins not > # # recommending > # # > biodiesel (much less SVO/WVO) in higher > # # concentrations > # # > than 5% or so, I wouldn't consider a first gen > # # > powerstroke for an alternative fuels vehicle. > # # > # _________________________________________________________________ Earn cashback on your purchases with Live Search - the search that pays you back! http://search.live.com/cashback/?&pkw=form=MIJAAF/publ=HMTGL/crea=earncashbac k ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:07:45 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: wjs, trailers, towing capacity of a 300D? they're about 1200-1400 in Idaho, nicely redone... clean... pintle setup though... found a rough civy version for about 500... needs a lot of help, he put 14" tires on it... has some surface rust... been sitting in his garage since 1964... ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, michel balea wrote: # # bantam trailers: seems like a good option, I looked for one to transport the off-road bikes but a weenie bit too short, the best deals are North, on the south west asking is usually $1200-1800. # # I trailered an M102, shortened all around w 16" wheel... very nice off-road... a bit heavy especially w the 2.67 gearing and going up donner pass. # # There are a few good groups which i lost the bookmarks after swapping OS from XP 2 Linux, it is somewhere on the back up disk. # # a yahoo group is a M101 and the other is a military/toy civilian board w all the goodies for sale. # # Michel # # > Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:40:08 -0700 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: joe-at-j-hughes.com # > CC: diesel-benz-at-digest.net; fsj-at-digest.net # > Subject: fsj: wjs, trailers, towing capacity of a 300D? # > # > the WJs are fantastic... chrysler really screwed up with the WK. # > # > looking for a pair of tan heated leather seats out of a Limited WJ - 99-04... # > # > I've towed around 8K behind my wj... 2,000lb trailer with 2+ yards of gravel... # > it has surge brakes, but they're broke. :) Towed the panel # > and the grand wag behind the WJ... had the panel a bit too far back # > on a very large equipment trailer, it was a little spooky... the grand # > wag was on a uhaul car trailer, better distribution, felt much better. # > # > thinking of getting an old bantam trailer for hauling wvo around... I'm # > wondering what my '91 300D is capable of towing... those old bantams are around # > 600lbs empty... found a whole nest of them at MM 3 on I-84 at the Idaho Motor Pool. # > they want too much for them though. :) # > # > john # > snohomish, wa # > 91 grand wag 6.2 - DD 16/24 # > 91 300D 2.5L TD - wife is driving 30/35+ # > 99 wj laredo 4.7 - interstate cruiser/family snow machine 15/~20 # > 83 j10 no engine right now - had 4.2 ~15-17 # > 75 j10 -hydraulic dump trailer # > 67 j100 panel - holding for son's graduation from college (he actually started!) # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, Joe Hughes wrote: # > # > # My wife won't part with hers either, unless it's for a Mini. I've been # > # trying to get my wife to trade the WJ in for a 7.3L Excursion, but she # > # doesn't want anything to do with it. # > # # > # I've been hauling a 6K lb trailer on the weekends with the WJ for the last # > # few months. I've put trailer brakes, and air bags in it. It works, but it # > # still sways a bit. # > # # > # Joe Hughes # > # Everett, WA # > # 50 Willys pickup, Cummins 3.9L 4bt on a 74 Cherokee chassis # > # 00 JGC Ltd. 4.7L # > # 94 BMW 540i e34 6-spd 4.0L # > # 88 Honda CBR-600 <- Current DD # > # # > # -----Original Message----- # > # From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john # > # Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 7:45 AM # > # To: Jim Hoffman # > # Cc: diesel-benz list; full size jeep list; ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net # > # Subject: fsj: Re: [db] F250 Diesel 4x4? # > # # > # saw a 99 on craigslist, emailed the # > # guy... 13 hwy, 10 in town... say what? # > # I think his was a 7.3... larger tires # > # and lift... he didn't adjust his speedo... # > # but still, that's horrible... # > # # > # that and my wife refuses to part with the grand # > # cherokee (wj)... # > # # > # guess if I do find an econo f250 it'll # > # only be my grand wag that goes... # > # # > # the adventure continues... # > # # > # ----- # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # > # SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # # > # # > # On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: # > # # > # # This is my primary reason for sticking with an IDI. # > # # You can build very nice IDIs. I'd get an early '94 # > # # with factory turbo, put in the larger downpipe and go! # > # # # > # # Or get a Cummins! # > # # # > # # ;) # > # # # > # # Jim # > # # # > # # > Biggest problem I see with you having a powerstroke # > # # > of that vintage is that the injectors are $250-300 # > # # > each, and with ford issuing bulletins not # > # # recommending # > # # > biodiesel (much less SVO/WVO) in higher # > # # concentrations # > # # > than 5% or so, I wouldn't consider a first gen # > # # > powerstroke for an alternative fuels vehicle. # > # # # > # # # _________________________________________________________________ # Earn cashback on your purchases with Live Search - the search that pays you back! # http://search.live.com/cashback/?&pkw=form=MIJAAF/publ=HMTGL/crea=earncashback ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3104 **************************