From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Jun 25 16:16:56 2008 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, June 25 2008 Volume 01 : Number 3107 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: fsj: RE: xj: Fuel Pump question Re: fsj: RE: xj: Fuel Pump question fsj: Re: xj: Airbag kit fsj: Re: parts for independent front suspention Re: fsj: RE: xj: Fuel Pump question Re: fsj: RE: xj: Fuel Pump question RE: fsj: RE: xj: Fuel Pump question Re: fsj: RE: xj: Fuel Pump question RE: fsj: RE: xj: Fuel Pump question RE: fsj: RE: xj: Fuel Pump question Re: fsj: RE: xj: Fuel Pump question Re: fsj: RE: xj: Fuel Pump question FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:15:07 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: RE: xj: Fuel Pump question I've never played with that stuff, but I know a lot of pilots that use it. Every now and then I'll add amsoil pi to my gas engines... P.i. Performance Improver Gasoline Additive Product Code: APICN-EA P.i. improves fuel mileage an average of 2.3% and up to 5.7%. Reduces emissions such as hydrocarbons (HC) up to 15%, carbon monoxide (CO) up to 26% and nitrous oxides (NOx) up to 17%. Restores power and performance. Reduces the need for costly higher octane fuel. (API) http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - click onto the corporate website and look at fuel additives... taking this path will get me the sale if you buy. ;) thanx! john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 25 Jun 2008, Ed Kummel wrote: # I remember years ago with an ageing '72 Cutlass 455ci motor, Marvel's Mystery Oil kept that old girl running far longer than it should have! Perhaps its time to begin adding it again to my vehicles! # Ed # web/gadget guru # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Never mind that we just had an incredibly cold winter in North America and huge record snowfalls across the continent. As Al Gore said to a bunch of us the other day, these record cold spells and record snowfalls are actually caused by global warming. To which Jerry York replied, "Jeez then I guess we better stop this global warming before we all f**king freeze to death, eh?" # # - "Fake" Steve Jobs 3/24/08 blog entry # # --- On Wed, 6/25/08, Jim Blair wrote: # # From: Jim Blair # Subject: RE: fsj: RE: xj: Fuel Pump question # To: "john" , xj-at-digest.net # Cc: "full size jeep list" # Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 12:02 PM # # W # some lube to the fuel seems to help. (be careful not to use anything with lead # in it like 2 stroke oil or you can kill the O2 sensor in injected AND Carter # BBD 6 cyl rigs) # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # # > Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:57:02 -0700 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: xj-at-digest.net # > CC: diesel-benz-at-digest.net; fsj-at-digest.net # > Subject: fsj: RE: xj: Fuel Pump question # > # > the issue isn't lubricity, it's the fact that some o-rings # > and seals are attacked by either the alcholol or the methanol. # > if vitron seals are used they're fine... went through this # > with my benz... once the original seals / o-rings started # > leaking and were replaced all was fine... the flex fuel # > vehicles simply have compatible seals and o-rings... # > # > the other issue with ethanol is it tends to attract water # > which attracts rust which isn't something that makes pumps happy... # > # > john # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > On Wed, 25 Jun 2008, Tesar Landon wrote: # > # > # There must be a solution for this, as Brazil is using ethanol # > # extensively... # > # # > # - L # > # # > # -----Original Message----- # > # From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Jim # > # Blair # > # Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:46 AM # > # To: xj-at-digest.net # > # Subject: RE: xj: Fuel Pump question # > # # > # Alcohol is indeed destroying fuel pumps because of it's low # lubricity. # > # (mechanical as well as electrical pumps) # > # # > # _________________________________________________________________ # > # Earn cashback on your purchases with Live Search - the search that pays # > # you # > # back! # > # # http://search.live.com/cashback/?&pkw=form=MIJAAF/publ=HMTGL/crea=earnca # > # shbac # > # k # > # # # _________________________________________________________________ # The im Talkathon starts 6/24/08. For now, give amongst yourselves. # http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_LearnMore_GiveAmongst # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:19:39 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: RE: xj: Fuel Pump question the '74 would have had a catalytic converter, unless it had a slightly higher GVW. '73 was the required year for cats on US cars and light trucks. I had a '75 ford club wagon that had a slightly higher GVW and was excluded... do you know if it came with the reduced size filler neck? anyone remember what the gvw cutoff was? seems to me it was 6200lbs... I still have a catalytic converter "test pipe". it's a section of pipe that fits right where the suspect catalytic converter used to go... ;) I think they're somewhat illegal now... when cats came out there were stories of them starting grass fires... :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 25 Jun 2008, Dan Black wrote: # john said: # {- the issue isn't lubricity, it's the fact that some o-rings # {- and seals are attacked by either the alcholol or the methanol. # {- if vitron seals are used they're fine... went through this # {- with my benz... once the original seals / o-rings started # {- leaking and were replaced all was fine... the flex fuel # {- vehicles simply have compatible seals and o-rings... # # Most modern vehicles (since the '80s, give or take?) should be ok. And # my '74 never had a problem. (Note that I'm only using the standard 10% # Ethanol, or E10, not the E85 / 85% Ethanol.) And of course no other # vehicles I've had have had any trouble with E10, either. And we've had # E10 in Iowa since... well, probably since I could drive, in the late # '80s. Been using it pretty much full-time, at least while in Iowa since # it's always available. # # Now some people _have_ found that the non-ethanol lower grade gas # actually gets them better mileage, but that seems to vary with the # vehicle. So, literally, YMMV. I've used it very rarely under the same # conditions (i.e., not in hilly high-elevation places in CO), so I don't # have much data for comparison there. # # {- the other issue with ethanol is it tends to attract water # {- which attracts rust which isn't something that makes pumps happy... # # The main problem here is if you have years of bad crap in your tank, and # the ethanol cleans it, so you get a lot of that crap going through your # fuel pump and engine in a relatively short time. # # However, I've never had a problem personally, even when I first got the # '74 and started putting that ethanol through it. Of course, it's # possible the former owner(s) had already had it on ethanol for awhile, # but that's old enough to have been designed for _regular_ gas (and I # ain't talkin' "regular unleaded"!), and if any of my vehicles would have # gunk in the tank, that would be it. # # Besides, if you're using a stock FSJ, the fuel pumps are cheap and easy # to replace. If you want to try ethanol, go ahead. If you're worried # about it cleaning your tank too much, just be sure to do it in nice # weather and have a spare fuel pump on hand. I'm guessing it won't be an # instantaneous, strand-you-on-the-side-of-the-road thing, but if you're # going to try something that has the potential for requiring repairs, you # might as well schedule it as best you can. :) # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- # Lightning... has just struck my brain. # -- Smee # -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:28:15 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: xj: Airbag kit Stephen, you'd be much, much better off with an add a leaf or "load leveler" spring. You can set these things up so they don't provide support until a load is on them, keeping the ride decent when unloaded... I've used these with success on a wide variety of leaf spring vehicles from Mustangs through Full Size Jeeps... http://www.jcwhitney.com/Jeep-Helper-Spring/600007367.jcw I've not had good luck at all with air bags, slip in rubber boosts, bolt in coil supports, springs over shocks, air shocks, etc. have tried them all... best solution is add-a-leafs or better springs. :) As Ed pointed out, having the two bags connected could be dangerous... the biggest issue with any of these inflatable systems is that they WILL leak, and leave you in a bad spot if you have a load... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 25 Jun 2008, Ed Kummel wrote: # I've never used that particular kit, but I have used air support suspension systems before on other vehicles...Specifically, air shocks, but also air bag systems. What I found out, especially with airshocks is that they do more damage than they prevent. The most unusual damage was to the driver's seat! The stiffness of the suspension, put an undue amount of stress on the seat causing it to tear. I found this problem with airbag systems as well. # I also found that air systems that use a common manifold, have a tendancy to roll. Meaning that if too much weight is put on one side of the vehicle, the air will migrate from the airbag with the greatest pressure and flow into the airbag with the lowest pressure causing the leaning of the vehicle to be more pronounced. This can cause a dangerous situation indeed if your load shifts while driving! # Individually controlled valves are the only way to go and also why the price of some of the better systems are so high... # The other problem I found is that the bags don't last very long...especially if you have an aftermarket exhaust...the larger pipes put the exhaust closer to the suspension pieces and the heat from the exhaust causes the bags to deteriorate quicker...If you can fashion some kind of heat sheild, this may prolong the life, but honestly, I don't think it will do much. # Ed # web/gadget guru # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Never mind that we just had an incredibly cold winter in North America and huge record snowfalls across the continent. As Al Gore said to a bunch of us the other day, these record cold spells and record snowfalls are actually caused by global warming. To which Jerry York replied, "Jeez then I guess we better stop this global warming before we all f**king freeze to death, eh?" # # - "Fake" Steve Jobs 3/24/08 blog entry # # --- On Wed, 6/25/08, Stephen Rigley wrote: # # From: Stephen Rigley # Subject: xj: Airbag kit # To: "xj-list" # Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 6:16 AM # # Hi, # # Has anyone installed this kit? # http://www.autoaccessconnect.com/jech19to20ai.html # Am looking to help the rear springs a little to reduce sag + level side to # side (oh.. and reduce "bounciness"). # # Looks like a better option than replacing the springs .. thoughts? # # Steve # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:31:23 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: parts for independent front suspention don't have a clue... will send this info to the FSJ list an Bruce... since these were limited production items maybe a Crown Distributor or NAPA might have them... a good front end shop might be able to track these items down... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 25 Jun 2008, Mees Krul wrote: ( meeskrul-at-live.nl ) # Hello Jeepers ! # My name is Mees Krul and live in the Netherlands. # I,am looking from time to time on your side and see some nice pictures from Bruce Rice,s 63 wagoneer with independend front suspention (very nice) # Now is my question are there spare parts available for this system??? # Bushing,s and spacers for the torsion bar rotation point # and the rubber boots for on the steering nuckles ?? (see on your pictures) # Becaus my Dad,s car also a wagoneer!, # a 1964 FSJ 2 wheeldrive with independend front suspention # and need some rebuilding parts ! # So a address or so is very welcome! # in holland (netherlands) they don,t no notting about that IFS system # I hope you do now it or have somebody they do and can help me!?? # # All the best ! Mees # And keep the old Jeeps alive !!!! # _________________________________________________________________ # Jouw nieuws en entertainment, vind je op MSN.nl! # http://nl.msn.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:08:36 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: RE: xj: Fuel Pump question john said: {- the '74 would have had a catalytic converter, unless it had a slightly {- higher GVW. '73 was the required year for cats on US cars and light trucks. Umm, no, it must've been '75 for whatever class these count as. It never had a cat and probably never will. {- I had a '75 ford club wagon that had a slightly higher GVW and was {- excluded... do you know if it came with the reduced size filler neck? I dunno; how do you tell? I know it has the old style regular filler, and the angle or something is bad, so I can't just put in today's automatic gas pumps and let them go -- I have to hold them manually at a pretty slow pump rate. Gets kind of annoying when it's below 10deg outside and very windy (as all gas stations are). {- I still have a catalytic converter "test pipe". it's a section of {- pipe that fits right where the suspect catalytic converter used to go... ;) {- I think they're somewhat illegal now... Fortunately, Iowa is one of the few places that doesn't check that stuff. I've never even see them come out to do a visual inspection. Though I believe all my vehicles are legal in that aspect -- they either have the equipment or are exempt due to the model year. {- when cats came out there were stories of them starting grass fires... :) Any vehicle with hot exhaust (or even a hot engine) that gets too close to the grass in hot, dry conditions can do that -- due to high grass, low-sitting vehicle, or both. I've parked my GWag in tall enough grass that I watched it pretty closely for the first several minutes. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wherever you go, there you are -- unless, of course, you're Schroedinger's cat, in which case maybe you aren't. -- Matthew W. Schmeer - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:13:08 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: RE: xj: Fuel Pump question Dan Black said: {- john said: {- {- the '74 would have had a catalytic converter, unless it had a slightly {- {- higher GVW. '73 was the required year for cats on US cars and light truc {- ks. {- {- Umm, no, it must've been '75 for whatever class these count as. It {- never had a cat and probably never will. And some documentation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter First widely introduced on series-production automobiles in the US market for the 1975 model year to comply with tightening EPA regulations on auto exhaust, catalytic converters are still most commonly used in motor vehicle exhaust systems. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pretty sure. -- Indiana Jones - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:23:42 +0000 From: michel balea Subject: RE: fsj: RE: xj: Fuel Pump question No cat on my calif. 74 wag, and i have owned it for the last 25 years... almost. 75 is the cutoff. Thank you Jim for letting me know about no 2 stroke oil in engine w O2 sensor. Michel 74 wag _________________________________________________________________ The other season of giving begins 6/24/08. Check out the i^Rm Talkathon. http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_SeasonOfGiving ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:15:30 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: RE: xj: Fuel Pump question I think some of the trucks were exempt through '75 or so... they would have it marked on the emissions tag / vacuum routing stuff under the hood, and on the driver's door plate. oregon has a visual... washington used to but they got so many complaints because they didn't know what they were doing that they repealed it... we also were able to be exempted from the winter fuel stuff, mainly because of burn bans, really helped the air quality... it was so bad here in the '80s with all the wood stoves I couldn't breath... I drove around on the east side with a respirator on... (I'm allergic to Alders. :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 25 Jun 2008, Dan Black wrote: # john said: # {- the '74 would have had a catalytic converter, unless it had a slightly # {- higher GVW. '73 was the required year for cats on US cars and light trucks. # # Umm, no, it must've been '75 for whatever class these count as. It # never had a cat and probably never will. # # {- I had a '75 ford club wagon that had a slightly higher GVW and was # {- excluded... do you know if it came with the reduced size filler neck? # # I dunno; how do you tell? I know it has the old style regular filler, # and the angle or something is bad, so I can't just put in today's # automatic gas pumps and let them go -- I have to hold them manually at a # pretty slow pump rate. Gets kind of annoying when it's below 10deg # outside and very windy (as all gas stations are). # # {- I still have a catalytic converter "test pipe". it's a section of # {- pipe that fits right where the suspect catalytic converter used to go... ;) # {- I think they're somewhat illegal now... # # Fortunately, Iowa is one of the few places that doesn't check that # stuff. I've never even see them come out to do a visual inspection. # Though I believe all my vehicles are legal in that aspect -- they either # have the equipment or are exempt due to the model year. # # {- when cats came out there were stories of them starting grass fires... :) # # Any vehicle with hot exhaust (or even a hot engine) that gets too close # to the grass in hot, dry conditions can do that -- due to high grass, # low-sitting vehicle, or both. I've parked my GWag in tall enough grass # that I watched it pretty closely for the first several minutes. # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- # Wherever you go, there you are -- unless, of course, you're Schroedinger's # cat, in which case maybe you aren't. # -- Matthew W. Schmeer # -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:24:53 -0500 From: "Cohrs, Thomas" Subject: RE: fsj: RE: xj: Fuel Pump question Just to pitch another query on these lines, I was reading an article on small engine maintenance and it had a side bar regarding fuel. The article recommended Sta-Bil or Sea Foam in the gas for storage, but said it would not work if the gas has ethanol in it. Anyone ever heard of that, or why that would be so? Thanks Tom C. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:06:35 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: RE: xj: Fuel Pump question most likely the moisture content or the alcohol content... I would think that the chemicals in Sta-Bil would be impacted by both... don't know about Sea Foam... recommend getting a Diesel. ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 25 Jun 2008, Cohrs, Thomas wrote: # Just to pitch another query on these lines, I was reading an article on # small engine maintenance and it had a side bar regarding fuel. The # article recommended Sta-Bil or Sea Foam in the gas for storage, but said # it would not work if the gas has ethanol in it. Anyone ever heard of # that, or why that would be so? # # Thanks # Tom C. # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:04:46 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: fsj: RE: xj: Fuel Pump question A diesel XJ requires either serious surgery or putting up with a renault engine that is hard to get parts for and can't tow its own shadow across the street. On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 04:06:35PM -0700, john wrote: > most likely the moisture content or the alcohol content... > I would think that the chemicals in Sta-Bil would be impacted > by both... don't know about Sea Foam... > > recommend getting a Diesel. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:16:38 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: RE: xj: Fuel Pump question get one of the engines from europe... ;) stephen keeps sending us links to wrecking yards in the UK. for an XJ I'm still pondering the possibility of using a 2.5L TD out of a 124 series... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 25 Jun 2008, Kevin wrote: # A diesel XJ requires either serious surgery or putting up with a renault # engine that is hard to get parts for and can't tow its own shadow across the # street. # # On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 04:06:35PM -0700, john wrote: # > most likely the moisture content or the alcohol content... # > I would think that the chemicals in Sta-Bil would be impacted # > by both... don't know about Sea Foam... # > # > recommend getting a Diesel. ;) # ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3107 **************************