From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Jul 4 18:57:21 2008 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Saturday, July 5 2008 Volume 01 : Number 3112 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: parts run... fsj: 2002 F350 Super Duty? fsj: Re: parts run... leather seats for Omega fsj: minneapolis - eric Re: fsj: Re: [db] heating fuel fsj: two questions - fuel related RE: fsj: Re: parts run... fsj: car humor fsj: RE: [db] Re: parts run... leather seats for Omega FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 01:08:01 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: fsj: Re: parts run... NICE! how much did you pay for them? both of them power/heated? i'd love to see a few pics. yeah, you can change the color of the leathers. i got some dye custom mixed at a local paint supply shop. i'm using it to match all of my interior colors of my j-truck build. it works great, stays put, and looks fantastic. we'll see how well it wears in a few years. there are even numerous dye-in-a-can aerosols out there in a bunch of colors. SEM is one of them. have you already worked out how the mounting bracketry is going to work? if i remember right, you were saying that WJ seats turned out to be about the closest fit requiring the least mods for retrofitting into an FSJ. what say you? :) Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 10:18 PM Subject: fsj: parts run... > finally found a nice pair of heated leather WJ seats for my '91 Grand Wagoneer, > only problem is they are charcoal and not tan. :( > > is there any way of changing the color of leather? > > these aren't the limited/premium wj seats, they were in a laredo, but they > are very comfortable, as comfortable as the ones in my '99 wj. > > john > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 22:25:33 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: 2002 F350 Super Duty? found a salvage F350... someone used it for target practice... 75000 miles, 7.3L Diesel, supposedly runs good, pictures look good. http://www.ar-auto.com/show_ad_info.php?AID=9620 what kind of mileage might this get? ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 22:51:05 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: parts run... leather seats for Omega On Fri, 4 Jul 2008, Neal Hoover wrote: # NICE! how much did you pay for them? both of them power/heated? # i'd love to see a few pics. # # yeah, you can change the color of the leathers. i got some dye custom mixed # at a local paint supply shop. i'm using it to match all of my interior # colors of my j-truck build. it works great, stays put, and looks fantastic. # we'll see how well it wears in a few years. # # there are even numerous dye-in-a-can aerosols out there in a bunch of # colors. SEM is one of them. # # have you already worked out how the mounting bracketry is going to work? if # i remember right, you were saying that WJ seats turned out to be about the # closest fit requiring the least mods for retrofitting into an FSJ. what say # you? # :) # Neal A. Hoover # Project '76 J-10 # Project '96 XJ got them both for $400, or 200 each, with my cloth WJ seats as "trade in"... have the option of getting the rear seat for another 200, but don't think they'll work in the Grand WAgoneer, and my wife doesn't care about having leather rear seats in the WJ... Anyway, yest, these are heated, power lumbar, power recline, and have the memory module... didn't get that switch out of the door, didn't notice it. Easy enough to wire up a switch for it... but since I'm the only driver not sure I will use it... nice to have the option though. :) These were out of a Laredo... other leather seated laredos didn't have this nice of seat... looking at the factory manual it appears there are four levels of seats: basic, premium 1, premium II and premium III. the leather seats I have from a limited are obviously premium III, nice pleated bottoms... the leather seats I saw in Boise must have been the Premium I. Inferior leather, no memory, no heat, manual recline (I think)... much less support on the bottom cushion, the leather looked wimpy. the basic seats are obviously the cloth seats like the ones that came out of my '99 laredo. definetly not that great... reminiscient of XJ seats... So, based on this, it appears these are the Premium II. Unfortunately they are the dark charcoal color... I would think it would be hard to change a dark color, unless we can strip the leather down and recolor it... will look into it. Tan or sand would be perfect for omega... or even natural leather... As far as the bases, well, I don't think I can use the WJ bases, went through this before with the cloth seats: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/Seats-Console-21may2008/ One thing I noticed is that the recline motor sits up on the seat bottom and is not part of the power base unit... so that solves one big problem... and the lumbar pump also sits on the seat bottom... which means I should be able to split the wiring harness and mount the electronics I need on the base and use the SJ power base as I have now... that means other than wiring all I have to do is drill one hole and figure out where to mount the seat heater switches. :) Sounds like a good project for tomorrow... not sure we really need heated seats right now... still trying to get the a/c working... also have my GM style motor mounts off of another 6.2L Diesel... let's see, the only other thing is the cruise control... almost there... almost there... :) one other issue with the seats... someone really, really liked air freshners in their jeep... they reek of fragrance... fortunately for me my nose hasn't started bleeding from them, no headache and no sore throat... so whatever flavor they liked isn't one I'm allergic to. They're sitting out in the carport airing out with a coating of febreeze to help soak up the stink. :) will have pictures tomorrow... same color as the ones in my WJ... then I'll get back to the restoration of the '47 Bantam T3-C trailer... picked up white paint and tail light wiring. :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:00:38 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: minneapolis - eric eric, your return email address appears to have bounced... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:09:26 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: [db] heating fuel just had an engineer friend look up visocity vs. temperature... there is hardly any change in viscosity of Diesel until you get way up in temperature... way up... so preheating Diesel to about 160 to 180 degrees shouldn't be a problem. :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 2 Jul 2008, Stephen Cahill wrote: # Hello John # They have done over the site completely. # # Look at # http://www.plantdrive.com/shop/home.php?cat=250 # # That will keep help to keep a tank warm. # Their products are used in Alaska, so you are covered. # # Stephen # Tell Craig I sent you. # # On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 6:17 PM, john wrote: # # > I don't see a "hot stick heater"... got a more specific link? # > # > # > john # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > On Wed, 2 Jul 2008, Stephen Cahill wrote: # > # > # Morning John # > # http://www.plantdrive.com/ # > # Check out their hot stick heater. # > # I think that will work for you. # > # # > # Stephen # > # # > # Check out their hot stick heater. # > # # > # On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 7:06 PM, john wrote: # > # # > # > jason, # > # > # > # > I may be getting senile, but you need a remedial reading course... # > # > # > # > I listed your write up as one of the options... the problem with # > # > your install plans are the space required to implement... and the # > # > fact it takes time to assemble your quite workable plan... # > # > # > # > a VW water heated filter setup may be the better solution, more # > # > costly, but less complex and less likely to spew coolant and veggie # > # > oil all over the place. :) I will just need to put in a few valves # > # > to switch things around... :) # > # > # > # > john # > # > # > # > ----- # > # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # > # > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # > # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > # > # > # > On Tue, 1 Jul 2008, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: # > # > # > # > # Good grief, John! You must be getting senile! # > # > # # > # > # Every time you ask this question (this has got to be the 6th or # > 7th) I # > # > remind # > # > # you that I sent you detailed instructions AND DIAGRAMS for how to # > make a # > # > heat # > # > # exchanger that you DON'T have to run all the way to the tank. You # > even # > # > posted # > # > # it on your site! You should have lots of room under the hood, and # > it # > # > will cost # > # > # you too little to mention. # > # > # # > # > # Why consider anything else? You must have forgotten about it. # > # > # # > # > # J # > # > # # > # > # -- john wrote: # > # > # trying to figure out the best way of heating vegetable oil on # > # > # my '91 Grand Wagoneer... # > # > # # > # > # currently have two tanks... stock factory 20 gallon plastic, along # > # > # the driver's side frame... and an aftermarket 20 gallon metal tank # > # > # that sits where the spare tire used to live... # > # > # # > # > # both tanks are fed through a pair of matching Racor filters # > (10micron) # > # > # which then feed a solenoid... the line from the solenoid goes up # > # > # to the firewall and uses the stock GM 6.2L Filter/water separator # > setup. # > # > # >From there the fuel goes to a lift pump and then to a secondary # > filter # > # > # on the intake manifold and into the injection pump... from there a # > # > # miracle occurs and the Grand Wagoneer gets 24 mpg on the freeway... # > # > (left # > # > # a few parts out. ;) # > # > # # > # > # Anyway... trying to decide if I want to add yet another tank with # > just # > # > # veggie oil or use one of the tanks for only veggie oil and some # > # > biodiesel. # > # > # # > # > # # > # > # Option one: # > # > # HEATED FILTER SETUP ON FIREWALL: # > # > # http://www.frybrid.com/filters.htm # > # > # # > # > # Option two: # > # > # Using a heat exchanger might work to heat the fuel and then the # > # > # tank... but I'm not excited about running 20 plus feet of heater # > hose # > # > # with coolant back to the tanks... # > # > # # > # > # two options with heat exchangers: # > # > # http://www.frybrid.com/parts.htm#heat # > # > # http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/WVO/heater/ # > # > # # > # > # # > # > # If I run the heated filter setup there is the option of an electric # > one # > # > # and one using coolant... the later is preferred as the electric # > uses # > # > 12A. # > # > # # > # > # The thing is I may not run veggie oil all the time... don't think I # > want # > # > # to heat my bioDiesel... or my Diesel... or do I? # > # > # # > # > # Anyway, that means if I don't run a separate tank I may need # > another # > # > valve # > # > # setup to switch the heater in and out... :) # > # > # # > # > # john # > # > # # > # > # ----- # > # > # # > # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they # > mold # > # > # http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # > # > # SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # > # > # # > # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # # > # > # > # # > # # > # # > # # > # # # # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:58:49 -0700 From: griggy-at-dslnorthwest.net Subject: fsj: two questions - fuel related Put heat trace cable along the fuel lines, then insulate them, and set a thermostat to run off of the 12V system in the truck. If you want to start out running WVO you will need to keep it plugged into an external 12V power source to keep the lines hot. Here is one link: http://www.heatline.com/kompensator.htm I'm not sure if 3 W per foot would be enough, (thermodynamics is why I never finished an engineering degree) but it should keep things from freezing up at least. You can get heat trace in much higher wattages but typically only for AC power. GAS Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 14:14:29 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: two questions - fuel related 1) anyone have experience with using an electric pump to push toward a factory lift pump? Thinking of adding an inline pump on my 6.2L Diesel. The electric pump is a passthrough type if it's off or fails. The lift pump is new, and since this is a Diesel setup there isn't the danger of rupturing the diapraghm and having the crankcase fill with that nasty gasoline stuff. 2) anyone know if there is any problem with heating Diesel fuel to 160 degrees before going into the injection pump? I know that WVO should be heated to 160 degrees to match the viscosity of "normal" Diesel, but I'm not sure if problems would result if I heat normal Diesel or bioDiesel. thanx, john ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 09:42:08 +0000 From: michel balea Subject: RE: fsj: Re: parts run... We need to see images for the bracketry. I looked at a set once... but the tunnel on the WJ is smaller..... dye at a paint shop... I will need to investigate that too. Happy 4th Michel > From: proj96xj-at-bellsouth.net > yeah, you can change the color of the leathers. i got some dye custom mixed > at a local paint supply shop. > there are even numerous dye-in-a-can aerosols out there in a bunch of > colors. SEM is one of them. > > have you already worked out how the mounting bracketry is going to work? if > i remember right, you were saying that WJ seats turned out to be about the > closest fit requiring the least mods for retrofitting into an FSJ. _________________________________________________________________ Do more with your photos with Windows Live Photo Gallery. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_photos_022008 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 11:11:03 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: car humor alternate fuels? alternate power sources? smaller vehicles? seems like the issue has made it's way into the funnies: http://www.comics.com/wash/opus/archive/images/opus2008062174669.jpg :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 18:56:52 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: [db] Re: parts run... leather seats for Omega nope, I saw the air freshners hanging in the jeep... it had just come in and we pulled the seats out... :) they drove it in... had a noise in the engine, couldn't extract the engine codes, worth more in parts... the guy had the axles and seats sold before the engine cooled off... ;) clean ash trays though... wiring up the seats now... using the stock SJ 6-way harness to run a 10-way WJ setup... will need to wire up special heater circuit... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 4 Jul 2008, Randy Bennell wrote: # Maybe not air fresheners. A former brother in law used to sprinkle cologne # all over inside his car. Really powerful for a day or two after he did it # but over time it would fade some. # # Or, was the vehicle owned by an older woman? Older ladies often wear way too # much perfume. Their sense of smell deteriorates as they age and they fail to # notice that they reek of it. They think they smell nice while the rest of us # can smell them coming for a mile. # # Randy # # # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On # Behalf Of john # Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 12:51 AM # To: Neal Hoover # Cc: WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com; diesel-benz list; FParker; # ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net; David Ashby; xj-list; full size jeep list # Subject: [db] Re: parts run... leather seats for Omega # # # On Fri, 4 Jul 2008, Neal Hoover wrote: # # NICE! how much did you pay for them? both of them power/heated? # # i'd love to see a few pics. # # # # yeah, you can change the color of the leathers. i got some dye custom # mixed # # at a local paint supply shop. i'm using it to match all of my interior # # colors of my j-truck build. it works great, stays put, and looks # fantastic. # # we'll see how well it wears in a few years. # # # # there are even numerous dye-in-a-can aerosols out there in a bunch of # # colors. SEM is one of them. # # # # have you already worked out how the mounting bracketry is going to work? # if # # i remember right, you were saying that WJ seats turned out to be about # the # # closest fit requiring the least mods for retrofitting into an FSJ. what # say # # you? # # :) # # Neal A. Hoover # # Project '76 J-10 # Project '96 XJ # # got them both for $400, or 200 each, with my cloth WJ seats # as "trade in"... have the option of getting the rear seat for # another 200, but don't think they'll work in the Grand WAgoneer, # and my wife doesn't care about having leather rear seats in the WJ... # # Anyway, yest, these are heated, power lumbar, power recline, # and have the memory module... didn't get that # switch out of the door, didn't notice it. Easy enough to wire # up a switch for it... but since I'm the only driver not sure I will # use it... nice to have the option though. :) # # These were out of a Laredo... other leather seated laredos # didn't have this nice of seat... looking at the factory manual # it appears there are four levels of seats: # # basic, premium 1, premium II and premium III. # # the leather seats I have from a limited are obviously premium III, nice # pleated bottoms... # # the leather seats I saw in Boise must have been the Premium I. Inferior # leather, no memory, no heat, manual recline (I think)... # much less support on the bottom cushion, the leather looked wimpy. # # the basic seats are obviously the cloth seats like the ones that # came out of my '99 laredo. definetly not that great... reminiscient # of XJ seats... # # So, based on this, it appears these are the Premium II. Unfortunately # they are the dark charcoal color... I would think it would be # hard to change a dark color, unless we can strip the leather down # and recolor it... will look into it. Tan or sand would be perfect # for omega... or even natural leather... # # As far as the bases, well, I don't think I can use the WJ bases, # went through this before with the cloth seats: # # http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/Seats-Console-21may2008/ # # One thing I noticed is that the recline motor sits up on the # seat bottom and is not part of the power base unit... so that solves # one big problem... and the lumbar pump also sits on the seat bottom... # # which means I should be able to split the wiring harness and mount the # electronics # I need on the base and use the SJ power base as I have now... that means # other than wiring all I have to do is drill one hole and figure out # where to mount the seat heater switches. :) # # Sounds like a good project for tomorrow... not sure we really need heated # seats right now... still trying to get the a/c working... also have my # GM style motor mounts off of another 6.2L Diesel... let's see, the only # other thing is the cruise control... almost there... almost there... :) # # one other issue with the seats... someone really, really liked # air freshners in their jeep... they reek of fragrance... fortunately # for me my nose hasn't started bleeding from them, no headache and no # sore throat... so whatever flavor they liked isn't one I'm allergic to. # # They're sitting out in the carport airing out with a coating of febreeze # to help soak up the stink. :) # # will have pictures tomorrow... same color as the ones in my WJ... # # then I'll get back to the restoration of the '47 Bantam T3-C trailer... # picked up white paint and tail light wiring. :) # # # john # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # 5:03 PM # # No virus found in this outgoing message. # Checked by AVG. # Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1535 - Release Date: 7/4/2008 # 5:03 PM # ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3112 **************************