From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Jul 18 13:48:17 2008 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, July 18 2008 Volume 01 : Number 3127 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: [db] love the smell of bioDiesel in the morning... fsj: Re: [db] love the smell of bioDiesel in the morning... fsj: how much will a 4" (ID) pipe 70" long hold? fsj: RE: how much will a 4" (ID) pipe 70" long hold? fsj: RE: how much will a 4" (ID) pipe 70" long hold? fsj: Re: [db] how much will a 4" (ID) pipe 70" long hold? RE: fsj: Re: [db] how much will a 4" (ID) pipe 70" long hold? RE: fsj: Re: [db] how much will a 4" (ID) pipe 70" long hold? fsj: Re: [db] love the smell of bioDiesel in the morning... fsj: Re: [db] love the smell of bioDiesel in the morning... fsj: Re: [db] love the smell of bioDiesel in the morning... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 14:58:13 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] love the smell of bioDiesel in the morning... have an idea... I have the rear "bumper" off of my '67 J100 panel... it's basically a section of pipe about the width of an FSJ... If I capped off both ends, ran a line through the middle with coolant from the heater, and put a filler on it, and connections I could basically reinforce the front end of my Grand Wagoneer, which has horribly whimpy bumers (aluminum) and provide a few gallons of WVO storage... can mount it under the brush guard so it'll also serve as an air dam and off road skid plate... :) see what happens when parts are left laying around the Snohomish Monster Carport? :) I will need to measure the diameter, and the length, then figure the volume... hopefully my math skills will work. ;) http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/johns-67-Panel/March17-PANEL/P3171189.JPG should fit under the front bumper/brush guard: http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/06-Jun-22-garden-snohomish-benz-jeep/benz-n-jeep/ if it holds at least three gallons this might be worth the trouble... ;) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, chuck goolsbee wrote: # >hey, Jim, do you have any 3 to 5 gallon tanks I could use for veggie # >oil laying about? I need to add YetAnotherTank (YAT) to Omega so # >I can run straight filtered WVO... # # I know we talked on the phone about this (well... tried to while we both lost # signal!) but I still do not understand what you are trying to accomplish. # # >I can't mix wvo with biodiesel, # # That is true, as they just don't mix. The WVO will swiftly separate and # settle to the bottom of the tank. These two liquids just do not mix very # well. # # # >and don't want to mix it with dinodiesel for the cold months... # # Why not? The key there is just mixture. Petroleum Diesel and VO mix pretty # well so long as the VO is clean and free of water. During the summer months # you could go up to 50% mix with no issues. I know because I've done it. In # the winter just pull back to 10% VO or less. We never get THAT cold around # here to REQUIRE a fuel heater setup. # # The only time you would have to have a heated VO source is if you ever plan # to run on 100% VO. # # --chuck # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 15:27:28 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] love the smell of bioDiesel in the morning... let's see... 5*7= 35 lbs... the CG is just above the center of the frame, around the bottom of the seats... plan on mounting this well below the CG... of a 5,600 lb vehicle... 35lbs is about 0.6% of the vehicle mass... and it's unlikely I'll hear the sloshing as there is a 6.2L NoiseMaker directly between me and the sloshing... :) :) we'll see... I'll see if I can mount it, and if it has enough space... it's pretty heavy... but it is giving me some ideas. :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 17 Jul 2008, Alec Cordova wrote: # If it's ever less than completely full or completely empty, be sure to # plan for the effects on handling when the contents slosh from side to # side. ;-) # # Alec # # # On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:58 PM, john wrote: # > have an idea... # > # > I have the rear "bumper" off of my '67 J100 panel... it's # > basically a section of pipe about the width of an FSJ... # > # > If I capped off both ends, ran a line through the middle with # > coolant from the heater, and put a filler on it, and connections # > I could basically reinforce the front end of my Grand Wagoneer, # > which has horribly whimpy bumers (aluminum) and provide a few # > gallons of WVO storage... can mount it under the brush guard # > so it'll also serve as an air dam and off road skid plate... :) # > # > see what happens when parts are left laying around the Snohomish # > Monster Carport? :) # > # > I will need to measure the diameter, and the length, then figure # > the volume... hopefully my math skills will work. ;) # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/johns-67-Panel/March17-PANEL/P3171189.JPG # > # > should fit under the front bumper/brush guard: # > http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/06-Jun-22-garden-snohomish-benz-jeep/benz-n-jeep/ # > # > if it holds at least three gallons this might be worth the trouble... ;) # > # > john # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, chuck goolsbee wrote: # > # > # >hey, Jim, do you have any 3 to 5 gallon tanks I could use for veggie # > # >oil laying about? I need to add YetAnotherTank (YAT) to Omega so # > # >I can run straight filtered WVO... # > # # > # I know we talked on the phone about this (well... tried to while we both lost # > # signal!) but I still do not understand what you are trying to accomplish. # > # # > # >I can't mix wvo with biodiesel, # > # # > # That is true, as they just don't mix. The WVO will swiftly separate and # > # settle to the bottom of the tank. These two liquids just do not mix very # > # well. # > # # > # # > # >and don't want to mix it with dinodiesel for the cold months... # > # # > # Why not? The key there is just mixture. Petroleum Diesel and VO mix pretty # > # well so long as the VO is clean and free of water. During the summer months # > # you could go up to 50% mix with no issues. I know because I've done it. In # > # the winter just pull back to 10% VO or less. We never get THAT cold around # > # here to REQUIRE a fuel heater setup. # > # # > # The only time you would have to have a heated VO source is if you ever plan # > # to run on 100% VO. # > # # > # --chuck # > # # > # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:41:07 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: how much will a 4" (ID) pipe 70" long hold? Pipe ID=4", length=70" any engineers on line that can tell me how much fluid that will hold? :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:58 PM, john wrote: # > # > > have an idea... # > > # > > I have the rear "bumper" off of my '67 J100 panel... it's # > > basically a section of pipe about the width of an FSJ... # > > # > > If I capped off both ends, ran a line through the middle with # > > coolant from the heater, and put a filler on it, and connections # > > I could basically reinforce the front end of my Grand Wagoneer, # > > which has horribly whimpy bumers (aluminum) and provide a few # > > gallons of WVO storage... can mount it under the brush guard # > > so it'll also serve as an air dam and off road skid plate... :) # > > # > > see what happens when parts are left laying around the Snohomish # > > Monster Carport? :) # > > # > > I will need to measure the diameter, and the length, then figure # > > the volume... hopefully my math skills will work. ;) # > > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/johns-67-Panel/March17-PANEL/P3171189.JPG # > > # > > should fit under the front bumper/brush guard: # > > http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/06-Jun-22-garden-snohomish-benz-jeep/benz-n-jeep/ # > > # > > if it holds at least three gallons this might be worth the trouble... ;) # > > # > > john ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:41:35 -0700 From: "Joe Hughes" Subject: fsj: RE: how much will a 4" (ID) pipe 70" long hold? 879.65 cubic inches X 0.0043 cubic inches to gallon = 3.78 Gallons Joe Hughes Everett, WA 22 Willys-Overland Touring 50 Willys pickup, Cummins 3.9L 4bt on a 74 Cherokee chassis 64 Mercedes S220 Sedan 88 Honda CBR-600 <- Currently DD 94 BMW 540i e34 6-spd 4.0L 00 JGC Ltd. 4.7L - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 6:41 PM To: Edward Pomeroy Cc: Alec Cordova; full size jeep list; David Ashby; ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net; diesel-benz list Subject: fsj: how much will a 4" (ID) pipe 70" long hold? Pipe ID=4", length=70" any engineers on line that can tell me how much fluid that will hold? :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:58 PM, john wrote: # > # > > have an idea... # > > # > > I have the rear "bumper" off of my '67 J100 panel... it's # > > basically a section of pipe about the width of an FSJ... # > > # > > If I capped off both ends, ran a line through the middle with # > > coolant from the heater, and put a filler on it, and connections # > > I could basically reinforce the front end of my Grand Wagoneer, # > > which has horribly whimpy bumers (aluminum) and provide a few # > > gallons of WVO storage... can mount it under the brush guard # > > so it'll also serve as an air dam and off road skid plate... :) # > > # > > see what happens when parts are left laying around the Snohomish # > > Monster Carport? :) # > > # > > I will need to measure the diameter, and the length, then figure # > > the volume... hopefully my math skills will work. ;) # > > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/johns-67-Panel/March17-PANEL/P3171189.JPG # > > # > > should fit under the front bumper/brush guard: # > > http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/06-Jun-22-garden-snohomish-benz-jeep/benz-n- jeep/ # > > # > > if it holds at least three gallons this might be worth the trouble... ;) # > > # > > john ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:41:32 -0500 From: "Nathaniel Butts" Subject: fsj: RE: how much will a 4" (ID) pipe 70" long hold? 879.62in^2 3.8 gal 14.41 liter - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 8:41 PM To: Edward Pomeroy Cc: Alec Cordova; full size jeep list; David Ashby; ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net; diesel-benz list Subject: fsj: how much will a 4" (ID) pipe 70" long hold? Pipe ID=4", length=70" any engineers on line that can tell me how much fluid that will hold? :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:58 PM, john wrote: # > # > > have an idea... # > > # > > I have the rear "bumper" off of my '67 J100 panel... it's # > > basically a section of pipe about the width of an FSJ... # > > # > > If I capped off both ends, ran a line through the middle with # > > coolant from the heater, and put a filler on it, and connections # > > I could basically reinforce the front end of my Grand Wagoneer, # > > which has horribly whimpy bumers (aluminum) and provide a few # > > gallons of WVO storage... can mount it under the brush guard # > > so it'll also serve as an air dam and off road skid plate... :) # > > # > > see what happens when parts are left laying around the Snohomish # > > Monster Carport? :) # > > # > > I will need to measure the diameter, and the length, then figure # > > the volume... hopefully my math skills will work. ;) # > > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/johns-67-Panel/March17-PANEL/P3171189.JPG # > > # > > should fit under the front bumper/brush guard: # > > http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/06-Jun-22-garden-snohomish-benz-jeep/benz-n- jeep/ # > > # > > if it holds at least three gallons this might be worth the trouble... ;) # > > # > > john ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:44:51 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] how much will a 4" (ID) pipe 70" long hold? cool, thanx! thanx all... about 3.8 gallons... there is a square tube behind it... about the same length, I'll run out and get those dimensions as well... but I'm thinking that pipe it too heavy, it's thick wall, what is that schedule 40 or something along those lines? I should be able to find some thin wall, maybe in 5" diameter... my truck is back in Everett waiting to get it's a/c working, but 70" is about the correct length. I believe the gW is 76" wide. thanx Eric for providing the formula, it helped me remember. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 17 Jul 2008, Eric Ditwiler wrote: # pi r squared x length # # 879 cubic inches # # Eric Ditwiler # Director, Academic Operations # Harvey Mudd College # 909-607-3134 # eric_ditwiler-at-hmc.edu # # # # On Jul 17, 2008, at 6:41 PM, john wrote: # # > Pipe ID=4", length=70" # > # >any engineers on line that can tell me how much fluid that will hold? :) # > # > # >john # > # > ----- # >------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # >------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > # > # > On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:58 PM, john wrote: # > # > # > # > > have an idea... # > # > > # > # > > I have the rear "bumper" off of my '67 J100 panel... it's # > # > > basically a section of pipe about the width of an FSJ... # > # > > # > # > > If I capped off both ends, ran a line through the middle with # > # > > coolant from the heater, and put a filler on it, and connections # > # > > I could basically reinforce the front end of my Grand Wagoneer, # > # > > which has horribly whimpy bumers (aluminum) and provide a few # > # > > gallons of WVO storage... can mount it under the brush guard # > # > > so it'll also serve as an air dam and off road skid plate... :) # > # > > # > # > > see what happens when parts are left laying around the Snohomish # > # > > Monster Carport? :) # > # > > # > # > > I will need to measure the diameter, and the length, then figure # > # > > the volume... hopefully my math skills will work. ;) # > # > > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/johns-67-Panel/March17-PANEL/P3171189.JPG # > # > > # > # > > should fit under the front bumper/brush guard: # > # > > http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/06-Jun-22-garden-snohomish-benz-jeep/benz-n-jeep/ # > # > > # > # > > if it holds at least three gallons this might be worth the trouble... # > # > > ;) # > # > > # > # > > john # # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:31:26 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Re: [db] how much will a 4" (ID) pipe 70" long hold? Pi R not square! Pi R round! _________________________________________________________________ Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_fami ly_safety_072008 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:40:41 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: Re: [db] how much will a 4" (ID) pipe 70" long hold? yep, just like you. ;) rofl... btw, thinking about Pi, did I send you the article on the low carb diet winning the weight loss competition? :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 17 Jul 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # # Pi R not square! Pi R round! # # _________________________________________________________________ # Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. # http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_family_safety_072008 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:01:11 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] love the smell of bioDiesel in the morning... Alec! hey, you triggered an idea... I could use PVC piping, it's a lot lighter, and I can glue it... should be resistant to any issues with waste veggie oil, will hold the temperature while adding little weight! I can get fittings for it... (I wonder if PVC will hold up to BioDiesel... should...) cool! thanx buddy, this was the seed for a good idea... I know from our earlier calculations that a 70" long pipe with an ID of 4" would give me about 3.8 gallons, so if I bump this up to 6" it'll get me closer to where I want to be... i.e., 5 gallons... pi r squared x length (3.1416 * 36) * 70 = 7916.83 (details weren't provided on how one gets to the cubic inches, I reversed the math and came up with 3.99999 as the divisor... right?) 7916.83/4 = 1979.2 x 0.0043 = 8.5 gallons??? so a 6" ID pipe 70" long should hold about 8.5 gallons... earlier info: 879.65 cubic inches X 0.0043 cubic inches to gallon = 3.78 Gallons The PVC will be better, less weight... I'm not worried about what happens if there is an accident... veggie oil is messy, but not a big safety issue... I'll probably put it below the brush guard and bumper so the brush guard would be impacted before the PVC pipe... of course I'm thinking about all this without the Jeep sitting in front of me, so this may not work out... I can set up a filtering system on it, and just pour the nasty wvo right into the front bumper and drive off... :) I could use 2 4" pipes and have one filled with filter material... pour the raw wvo into the top one, let it run through that pipe into the bottom pipe and draw out of that one... the gears are turning... :) thanx again for triggering the idea... ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 18 Jul 2008, Alec Cordova wrote: # Probably couldn't do it with diesel fuel, but I dated a girl in high # school who's father did some testing for NHTSA (or somebody similar # way back then) on vehicle bumpers. They found that the safest bumpers # in collisions were basically water-filled bladders with # specifically-sized plugged holes. In an impact, the plugs would pop # out, and pushing the water out of the holes provided the best # deceleration rates. Of course the weight was a drawback. # # So if you could find an appropriate material, this could be considered # a safety improvement. ;-) # # Alec ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:43:11 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] love the smell of bioDiesel in the morning... On Fri, 18 Jul 2008, Jerome Kaidor wrote: # *** Woohoo! Pass the popcorn! If you should proceed with this # nefarious plan, see # # http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/proseal.php # # for the Right Sealant. # # It's used in small airplanes to create fuel tanks that are just # sections of the wing. They just rivet up a tank structure and use this # stuff at the edges. It lasts for years and years. # # I bought a bit of it for a cabin repair on my airplane, and to reglue a # side window. It's kind of like silicone, but FAR stronger and stickier. # When wet, it has very low surface tension, so no matter how lightly you # touch it, the mess gets on you :). Wear old clothes. It will never come # out in the wash. When I used it, there was a lump left on my mixing stick. # After it cured, I tried to peel it off. I was unable to peel it or break # it. Amazing stuff. I bet your employer uses it too. # # - Jerry Kaidor oh yes... by the barrel, or tanker car... there are people that actually crawl inside those wings... they attach a tether to them so they can drag them back out if something goes amiss... I'm freaking out just thinking about going in there... was out in the big building a few months ago troubleshooting an issue and got to see inside the new one... pretty cool stuff... but you won't catch me doing the sealing work in those conditions... for what I'm thinking simple PVC cement will work... will put screw on end caps, will make it easy to clean... I like PVC, easy to work with, way better than metal... will probably use the black stuff... thinking that I can slide in something with wafers on rods to act as baffles... or maybe some scotchbrite as a baffle... would also act as a filter for the french fries. ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:47:59 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] love the smell of bioDiesel in the morning... Ron, radius... diameter... I think I'm getting confused... so, let's ask the question of the math types; 6" diameter pipe, 70" long... in gallons, what's the capacity? and if possible, show all the steps so I understand what I'm trying to remember... :) 4" diameter pipe, 70" long netted about 3.8 gallons... how much bigger is the 6" pipe in capacity? Isn't it 33% bigger, or about 1.26 gallons more, or a total of 5.0 gallons? (which is less than what my incorrect math come up with isn't it? ;) There are three types of people in the world... those that can do math, and those that can't... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 18 Jul 2008, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: # On Friday 18 July 2008, my mailbox was graced by a missive # from john who wrote: # # > I know from our earlier calculations that a 70" long pipe # > with an ID of 4" would give me about 3.8 gallons, so if I # > bump this up to 6" it'll get me closer to where I want to be... # > i.e., 5 gallons... # > # > pi r squared x length # > # > (3.1416 * 36) * 70 = 7916.83 # # except that here r = 3", not 6". # So you are out by a factor of 4. # Cheers, # Ron. ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3127 **************************