From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Aug 1 20:11:00 2008 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Saturday, August 2 2008 Volume 01 : Number 3140 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? Re: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? RE: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? Re: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? RE: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? RE: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? RE: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? RE: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? RE: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? RE: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? RE: fsj: fuel prices in British Columbia RE: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? RE: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 15:01:13 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? Well, down here there's always the risk that a dozer rig rolling code is coming the other direction. :) They're doing the whole route designation nonsense down here too, and as usual nobody's playing nice. On one side of the fence, you have the greenies who want to ban all transportation whatsoever, and you can only be in the forest if you walk, and on the other side of the fence, you have idiots with 44" boggers and 454s in their buggies who want to rip up everything in their path doing donuts. Unfortunately, those of us who don't stay home with our condos and lexuses get lumped in one of those two categories. On Fri, Aug 01, 2008 at 02:47:56PM -0700, john wrote: > it's nice that your fire roads are open... they've gated most of ours off. :( ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:06:57 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? Kevin said: {- People would rather be outside enjoying scenery than remembering what it costs {- for fuel these days, especially on a list where most of the vehicles on the {- list get less than 14 mpg. Amen. :( - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PHENOMONAL COSMIC POWER!!... ...itty-bitty living space! -- Genie - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 15:06:58 -0700 From: "Joe Hughes" Subject: RE: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? Speaking of gas, err.. I mean mountains. Sometimes those mountains are a little much for the out-of-towners, like this couple today from Maryland: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008085421_climbers01m0.html Joe Hughes Everett, WA 22 Willys-Overland Touring 50 Willys pickup, Cummins 3.9L 4bt on a 74 Cherokee chassis 64 Mercedes S220 Sedan 88 Honda CBR-600 <- Currently DD 94 BMW 540i e34 6-spd 4.0L 00 JGC Ltd. 4.7L - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 2:31 PM To: Kevin Cc: Dan Black; Full Size Jeeps Subject: Re: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? yes, the Sierra Nevadas are fine mountains... a bit warm and dry for my tastes though... I'll take the Cascades any day... ;) Chinook Pass, Mt. Baker/Shuksan, Pilchuck, Index, Stevens Pass... ah yes, green, cool and complete with snow year round, usually... :) http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/06-Jun-21-Yakima-to-Snohomish/ALL.html http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2007/09-Sep-13-MtBaker-Shuksan-WA/ALL.html john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 1 Aug 2008, Kevin wrote: # Two words: Sierra Nevada. # # Mountains so awesome that they actually named GOOD beer after them. Yes, # I've had rainier... # # Also of honorable mention are the white mountains, home to the aincent # bristlecone pine forest. # # On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 10:06:50PM -0700, john wrote: # > well, you do have Shasta... it's pretty decent. # > # > but we've got the Olympics, Baker, Rainier, Adams, Helens and # > a variety of others with snow on 'em... :) # > # > john # > # > On Thu, 31 Jul 2008, Kevin wrote: # > # > # Oh, I don't know about that. Then again, I'm biased because I live in the # > # ones we have here :) # > # # > # On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 08:29:20AM -0700, john wrote: # > # > I keep forgetting I'm in a state managed by democrats and liberals, # > # > almost as bad as california, but not as nice of an infrastructure. ;) # > # > # > # > but we do have better mountains here. ;) # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 15:19:19 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? what's worse is the folks that decide the ravines and woods are a good place to start a scrap metal yard or a land fill... or dump the remains of the stolen cars... I think if we get out a ways from the city we can access the forest service roads... it's just where we used to go is closed off now. :( ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 1 Aug 2008, Kevin wrote: # Well, down here there's always the risk that a dozer rig rolling code is # coming the other direction. :) # # They're doing the whole route designation nonsense down here too, and as usual # nobody's playing nice. On one side of the fence, you have the greenies who # want to ban all transportation whatsoever, and you can only be in the # forest if you walk, and on the other side of the fence, you have idiots with # 44" boggers and 454s in their buggies who want to rip up everything in their # path doing donuts. # # Unfortunately, those of us who don't stay home with our condos and lexuses # get lumped in one of those two categories. # # On Fri, Aug 01, 2008 at 02:47:56PM -0700, john wrote: # > it's nice that your fire roads are open... they've gated most of ours off. :( # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 15:28:40 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? could have happened to anyone... sounds like they were pretty well prepared and had an idea about what they were doing... we're so used to this area that we often head out on short hikes totally unprepared... we don't get too far off into the wild usually, but it doesn't take much... there aren't guard rails on most of the trails around here. ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 1 Aug 2008, Joe Hughes wrote: # Speaking of gas, err.. I mean mountains. Sometimes those mountains are a # little much for the out-of-towners, like this couple today from Maryland: # # http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008085421_climbers01m0.html # # # Joe Hughes # Everett, WA # 22 Willys-Overland Touring # 50 Willys pickup, Cummins 3.9L 4bt on a 74 Cherokee chassis # 64 Mercedes S220 Sedan # 88 Honda CBR-600 <- Currently DD # 94 BMW 540i e34 6-spd 4.0L # 00 JGC Ltd. 4.7L # # # # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john # Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 2:31 PM # To: Kevin # Cc: Dan Black; Full Size Jeeps # Subject: Re: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? # # yes, the Sierra Nevadas are fine mountains... a bit warm and # dry for my tastes though... I'll take the Cascades any day... ;) # # Chinook Pass, Mt. Baker/Shuksan, Pilchuck, Index, Stevens Pass... ah yes, # green, cool and complete with snow year round, usually... :) # # http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/06-Jun-21-Yakima-to-Snohomish/ALL.html # http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2007/09-Sep-13-MtBaker-Shuksan-WA/ALL.html # # john # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # # # On Fri, 1 Aug 2008, Kevin wrote: # # # Two words: Sierra Nevada. # # # # Mountains so awesome that they actually named GOOD beer after them. Yes, # # I've had rainier... # # # # Also of honorable mention are the white mountains, home to the aincent # # bristlecone pine forest. # # # # On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 10:06:50PM -0700, john wrote: # # > well, you do have Shasta... it's pretty decent. # # > # # > but we've got the Olympics, Baker, Rainier, Adams, Helens and # # > a variety of others with snow on 'em... :) # # > # # > john # # > # # > On Thu, 31 Jul 2008, Kevin wrote: # # > # # > # Oh, I don't know about that. Then again, I'm biased because I live # in the # # > # ones we have here :) # # > # # # > # On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 08:29:20AM -0700, john wrote: # # > # > I keep forgetting I'm in a state managed by democrats and # liberals, # # > # > almost as bad as california, but not as nice of an infrastructure. # ;) # # > # > # # > # > but we do have better mountains here. ;) # # > # # # # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 22:29:23 +0000 From: michel balea Subject: RE: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? I guess this is why we have emergency supplies... that we laugh at.... I have been carrying rain gears for over 20 years, and it never rains suddenly in the sierras.... at least where i go..... still a nice poncho in its plastic pouch. 2 weeks ago.... i could see the haze of water coming toward me... could not believe it... but i reach for the poncho..... a nice cold downpour... that could give you hypothermia.... at 6500'..... 30 min later a nice sunshine... and warm enough to enjoy a swim in the nearby lake. Same thing with storm matches and the magnesium pellets... or the water pills. Most of the fireroads are opened because they are access to dams for irrigation and electricity. Michel > From: joe > > Speaking of gas, err.. I mean mountains. Sometimes those mountains are a > little much for the out-of-towners, like this couple today from Maryland: > > http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008085421_climbers01m0.html< < _________________________________________________________________ Time for vacation? WIN what you need- enter now! http://www.gowindowslive.com/summergiveaway/?ocid=tag_jlyhm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 15:37:43 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? I usually carry water in my vehicles... not sure why... ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 1 Aug 2008, michel balea wrote: # # # I guess this is why we have emergency supplies... that we laugh at.... I have been carrying rain gears for over 20 years, and it never rains suddenly in the sierras.... at least where i go..... still a nice poncho in its plastic pouch. # # 2 weeks ago.... i could see the haze of water coming toward me... could not believe it... but i reach for the poncho..... a nice cold downpour... that could give you hypothermia.... at 6500'..... 30 min later a nice sunshine... and warm enough to enjoy a swim in the nearby lake. Same thing with storm matches and the magnesium pellets... or the water pills. # # Most of the fireroads are opened because they are access to dams for irrigation and electricity. # # Michel # # # > From: joe # > # > Speaking of gas, err.. I mean mountains. Sometimes those mountains are a # > little much for the out-of-towners, like this couple today from Maryland: # > # > http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008085421_climbers01m0.html<< # # _________________________________________________________________ # Time for vacation? WIN what you need- enter now! # http://www.gowindowslive.com/summergiveaway/?ocid=tag_jlyhm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 22:33:11 +0000 From: michel balea Subject: RE: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? at the price of scrapmetal.... those are being picked up by people w trailer.... at least when they are in the ravine.... There is a place next to a friend's cabin, called little Irak..... mostly carbonized trailers and cars... it is amazing to see what fire can do to a transfer case... i was probably a late nissan or ford... the metal had fusioned w the TC chain. Michel > To: kevin > > what's worse is the folks that decide the ravines and woods are > a good place to start a scrap metal yard or a land fill... or dump > the remains of the stolen cars...<<< _________________________________________________________________ Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_fami ly_safety_072008 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 22:47:15 +0000 From: michel balea Subject: RE: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? we need to get together.... and i will show you how many active locations, in the most unusual place... You stumble on those.... w a feel of apprehension..... Usually freewheeling w the moto down a steep canyon to cool the engine may startle the prospectors. Mostly water filtration on floating zodiac. I have some pictures... and some sites were too spooky to even think of stopping the engine and reach for the camera. Wondered how they brought those trailer down 25% grade, so narrow that even a wrangler would be a tad wide. Michel(in SF) > From: kevin > > I'm about an hour and a half from Tahoe, in California's gold country. > No, there ain't gold in them thar hills no more, but it's still a nice place > to live, with a lot of interesting history.<<< _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch when you're away with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenge r2_072008 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:28:17 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? oh yeah... hardest part about the local adventures is making sure you stay out of the news. ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 1 Aug 2008, Joe wrote: # Yea, I can't say much about out-of-towners, since I did get stuck on a hike # in Stevens Pass. We didn't pay attention to the time and we were only # prepared for a day hike. It started getting dark about the time we were # heading back, which is when it started snowing heavily. It was snowing hard # enough to cover our tracks and the trail, so here we are hiking in the dark # with no idea where the trail was and using our cell phones as a flash light. # # I guess some lessons get learned the hard way. ;-) # # Joe H. # # -----Original Message----- # From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] # Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 3:29 PM # To: Joe Hughes # Cc: 'Kevin'; 'Dan Black'; 'Full Size Jeeps' # Subject: RE: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? # # could have happened to anyone... sounds like they were pretty well # prepared and had an idea about what they were doing... # # we're so used to this area that we often head out on short hikes totally # unprepared... we don't get too far off into the wild usually, but it doesn't # take much... there aren't guard rails on most of the trails around here. ;) # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # # # On Fri, 1 Aug 2008, Joe Hughes wrote: # # # Speaking of gas, err.. I mean mountains. Sometimes those mountains are a # # little much for the out-of-towners, like this couple today from Maryland: # # # # # http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008085421_climbers01m0.html # # # # # # Joe Hughes # # Everett, WA # # 22 Willys-Overland Touring # # 50 Willys pickup, Cummins 3.9L 4bt on a 74 Cherokee chassis # # 64 Mercedes S220 Sedan # # 88 Honda CBR-600 <- Currently DD # # 94 BMW 540i e34 6-spd 4.0L # # 00 JGC Ltd. 4.7L # # # # # # # # -----Original Message----- # # From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of # john # # Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 2:31 PM # # To: Kevin # # Cc: Dan Black; Full Size Jeeps # # Subject: Re: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? # # # # yes, the Sierra Nevadas are fine mountains... a bit warm and # # dry for my tastes though... I'll take the Cascades any day... ;) # # # # Chinook Pass, Mt. Baker/Shuksan, Pilchuck, Index, Stevens Pass... ah yes, # # green, cool and complete with snow year round, usually... :) # # # # http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/06-Jun-21-Yakima-to-Snohomish/ALL.html # # http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2007/09-Sep-13-MtBaker-Shuksan-WA/ALL.html # # # # john # # # # ----- # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # # http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # # SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # # # # # # On Fri, 1 Aug 2008, Kevin wrote: # # # # # Two words: Sierra Nevada. # # # # # # Mountains so awesome that they actually named GOOD beer after them. # Yes, # # # I've had rainier... # # # # # # Also of honorable mention are the white mountains, home to the aincent # # # bristlecone pine forest. # # # # # # On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 10:06:50PM -0700, john wrote: # # # > well, you do have Shasta... it's pretty decent. # # # > # # # > but we've got the Olympics, Baker, Rainier, Adams, Helens and # # # > a variety of others with snow on 'em... :) # # # > # # # > john # # # > # # # > On Thu, 31 Jul 2008, Kevin wrote: # # # > # # # > # Oh, I don't know about that. Then again, I'm biased because I # live # # in the # # # > # ones we have here :) # # # > # # # # > # On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 08:29:20AM -0700, john wrote: # # # > # > I keep forgetting I'm in a state managed by democrats and # # liberals, # # # > # > almost as bad as california, but not as nice of an # infrastructure. # # ;) # # # > # > # # # > # > but we do have better mountains here. ;) # # # > # # # # # # # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 19:49:53 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: fuel prices in British Columbia I'll tell you on monday when I get back! (It's higher as you go inland) Price is still MUCH higher than the US. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 08:26:44 -0700 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: fuel prices in British Columbia > > any one know what fuel is going for in BC? > > unleaded > Diesel > > thinking of taking a trip up to Jasper/Glacier... > > john > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you. http://www.windowslive.com/mobile/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_mobile_0720 08 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 19:57:36 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? I pack water too..... and an extinguisher, tools, snacks, spare clothes, spare gas. All sorts of stuff! John wrote: I usually carry water in my vehicles... not sure why... ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 1 Aug 2008, michel balea wrote: # # # I guess this is why we have emergency supplies... that we laugh at.... I have been carrying rain gears for over 20 years, and it never rains suddenly in the sierras.... at least where i go..... still a nice poncho in its plastic pouch. # # 2 weeks ago.... i could see the haze of water coming toward me... could not believe it... but i reach for the poncho..... a nice cold downpour... that could give you hypothermia.... at 6500'..... 30 min later a nice sunshine... and warm enough to enjoy a swim in the nearby lake. Same thing with storm matches and the magnesium pellets... or the water pills. # # Most of the fireroads are opened because they are access to dams for irrigation and electricity. # # Michel _________________________________________________________________ Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_fami ly_safety_072008 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 20:03:44 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? I LIKE my little place that is almost to Steven's Pass! Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:30:35 -0700 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: kevin-at-mordred.punk.net > CC: dan-at-black.org; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: fsj: Canadian fuel costs? > > yes, the Sierra Nevadas are fine mountains... a bit warm and > dry for my tastes though... I'll take the Cascades any day... ;) > > Chinook Pass, Mt. Baker/Shuksan, Pilchuck, Index, Stevens Pass... ah yes, > green, cool and complete with snow year round, usually... :) > > http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/06-Jun-21-Yakima-to-Snohomish/ALL.html > http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2007/09-Sep-13-MtBaker-Shuksan-WA/ALL.html > > john > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Fri, 1 Aug 2008, Kevin wrote: > > # Two words: Sierra Nevada. > # > # Mountains so awesome that they actually named GOOD beer after them. Yes, > # I've had rainier... > # > # Also of honorable mention are the white mountains, home to the aincent > # bristlecone pine forest. > # > # On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 10:06:50PM -0700, john wrote: > #> well, you do have Shasta... it's pretty decent. > #> > #> but we've got the Olympics, Baker, Rainier, Adams, Helens and > #> a variety of others with snow on 'em... :) > #> > #> john > #> > #> On Thu, 31 Jul 2008, Kevin wrote: > #> > #> # Oh, I don't know about that. Then again, I'm biased because I live in the > #> # ones we have here :) > #> # > #> # On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 08:29:20AM -0700, john wrote: > #> #> I keep forgetting I'm in a state managed by democrats and liberals, > #> #> almost as bad as california, but not as nice of an infrastructure. ;) > #> #> > #> #> but we do have better mountains here. ;) > #> # > # _________________________________________________________________ Time for vacation? WIN what you need- enter now! http://www.gowindowslive.com/summergiveaway/?ocid=tag_jlyhm ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3140 **************************