From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Dec 2 19:29:51 2008 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, December 3 2008 Volume 01 : Number 3213 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: runs for a bit, then dies... Re: fsj: 1976 Jeep Wagoneer fsj: Re: runs for a bit, then dies... fsj: RE: 1976 Jeep Wagoneer RE: fsj: 1976 Jeep Wagoneer fsj: 4.28 tons RE: fsj: 1976 Jeep Wagoneer RE: fsj: 1976 Jeep Wagoneer fsj: cummins fsj: Re: [db] cummins RE: fsj: 1976 Jeep Wagoneer fsj: RE: cummins fsj: RE: cummins FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 22:12:11 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: runs for a bit, then dies... could be the module, or the pickup in the coil... could also be fuel related... a collapsed return line... the fuel filter oriented incorrectly... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: http://freegift.com SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 1 Dec 2008, Kobe Benny wrote: # I have been trying to troubleshoot my 1976 Wagoneer and i think that it must be the electronic ignition module. It will start and then run for about 2 minutes then all of a sudden just quit for no reason. Usually it will restart again but lately it has not been starting because the weather is getting colder. A buddy thinks that it is related to the ignition module but I wanted a second opinion. Thanks KOBY # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 22:14:24 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: 1976 Jeep Wagoneer module, points/electronic pickup bad ground dying coil clogged fuel filter, return lines, gas cap try running it with a timing light attached... and maybe with a clear section of line on the fuel line... of course it'll probably run until you empty the tank... but who knows... you might see a bubble in the line or a loss of spark... or you could just buy all the parts, swap 'em out and if it fixes it put 'em back one by one until the problem reoccurs... I think this is the way the dealership does it, except they don't put 'em back. ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: http://freegift.com SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 1 Dec 2008, Kobe Benny wrote: # If my electronic ignition module is bad will the engine run for a couple of # minutes then all of a sudden just quit for no reason. What else could this be # a symptom of ? I have check everything. KOBY # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 22:27:00 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: runs for a bit, then dies... we've seen this before, ignition switch even comes to mind... maybe tomorrow when normal people are up someone will pipe up... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: http://freegift.com SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 1 Dec 2008, Kobe Benny wrote: # Hey thanks for your response. I have tracked down all fuel related problems and it is definately an ignition problem. I am just not very smart with that end of it. KOBY # # --- On Mon, 12/1/08, john wrote: # # From: john # Subject: runs for a bit, then dies... # To: "Kobe Benny" # Cc: "full size jeep list" # Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 11:12 PM # # could be the module, or the pickup in the coil... could also be # fuel related... a collapsed return line... the fuel filter oriented # incorrectly... # # john # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: http://freegift.com # SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf # SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # # On Mon, 1 Dec 2008, Kobe Benny wrote: # # # I have been trying to troubleshoot my 1976 Wagoneer and i think that it # must be the electronic ignition module. It will start and then run for about 2 # minutes then all of a sudden just quit for no reason. Usually it will restart # again but lately it has not been starting because the weather is getting # colder. A buddy thinks that it is related to the ignition module but I wanted # a second opinion. Thanks KOBY # # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 07:21:32 -0600 From: "Potter, Tom E" Subject: fsj: RE: 1976 Jeep Wagoneer I don't think it is pertinent to your vehicle, but the later Jeeps have a coded key which if not used will cause the engine to die in a couple of minutes. Tom Potter - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Kobe Benny Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 12:05 AM To: fsj-at-digest.net Subject: fsj: 1976 Jeep Wagoneer If my electronic ignition module is bad will the engine run for a couple of minutes then all of a sudden just quit for no reason. What else could this be a symptom of ? I have check everything. KOBY ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 18:33:40 +0000 From: Michel Balea Subject: RE: fsj: 1976 Jeep Wagoneer As John said. What is the setup on your 76, it should be prestolite? the distributor w the funky double vacuum advance! How many miles Seems like you have gas, as it starts but dies after a couple of minutes. Test the coil after it fails, When coils warm up they change their resistance value, connect a spark plug to any boot w a good ground contact and crank.... it should spark. As for the ignition switch, you can wire directly from the battery positive to the coil -using the appropriate resistor value to lower the current voltage- Not too sure about the prestolite set up. Michel 74 wag... ready to graduate to 85 Gwag > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 22:14:24 -0800 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: fozgrin-at-yahoo.com > CC: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: fsj: 1976 Jeep Wagoneer > > module, > points/electronic pickup > bad ground > dying coil > clogged fuel filter, return lines, gas cap > > try running it with a timing light attached... and maybe > with a clear section of line on the fuel line... > > of course it'll probably run until you empty the tank... but > who knows... you might see a bubble in the line or a loss of spark... > > or you could just buy all the parts, swap 'em out and if it > fixes it put 'em back one by one until the problem reoccurs... I think > this is the way the dealership does it, except they don't put 'em back. ;) > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: http://freegift.com > SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf > SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Mon, 1 Dec 2008, Kobe Benny wrote: > > # If my electronic ignition module is bad will the engine run for a couple of > # minutes then all of a sudden just quit for no reason. What else could this be > # a symptom of ? I have check everything. KOBY > # _________________________________________________________________ Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed_12 2008 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 11:04:25 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: 4.28 tons took the blazer to the dump with the trailer loaded with the remains of a hot tub, and two barrels of WVO... tipped the scales going in at 4.28 tons... that's 8,560 lbs... only dropped off 300 lbs of tub... left at 8,260 lbs on the scales. the 6.5L Turbo Diesel wasn't working very hard that I could tell... trailer weighs 2,000lbs or a bit more since I added the barrel lift... not sure how much oil is in the drums... but 4 tons of truck and trailer... maybe I should look at getting an extended cab Diesel pickup... :) Or putting Diesel in my J10... ;) either solution will net better fuel economy... 4.13 tons, look out Hondas... ;) that was my first trip to a transfer station/dump in years... kind of fun... :) maybe I missed my calling, maybe I should have been a garbage truck driver. ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: http://freegift.com SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 12:05:50 -0700 From: "Tesar Landon" Subject: RE: fsj: 1976 Jeep Wagoneer Yes, please check for partially clogged fuel line, loss of pressure/vacuum in the line, and clogged exit at the fuel tank...blow back through the line into the tank, see if that helps extend the run time. I had pebbles in the gas tank - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Michel Balea Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 12:34 PM To: john wagoneer; fozgrin-at-yahoo.com Cc: fsj digest Subject: RE: fsj: 1976 Jeep Wagoneer As John said. What is the setup on your 76, it should be prestolite? the distributor w the funky double vacuum advance! How many miles Seems like you have gas, as it starts but dies after a couple of minutes. Test the coil after it fails, When coils warm up they change their resistance value, connect a spark plug to any boot w a good ground contact and crank.... it should spark. As for the ignition switch, you can wire directly from the battery positive to the coil -using the appropriate resistor value to lower the current voltage- Not too sure about the prestolite set up. Michel 74 wag... ready to graduate to 85 Gwag > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 22:14:24 -0800 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: fozgrin-at-yahoo.com > CC: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: fsj: 1976 Jeep Wagoneer > > module, > points/electronic pickup > bad ground > dying coil > clogged fuel filter, return lines, gas cap > > try running it with a timing light attached... and maybe > with a clear section of line on the fuel line... > > of course it'll probably run until you empty the tank... but > who knows... you might see a bubble in the line or a loss of spark... > > or you could just buy all the parts, swap 'em out and if it > fixes it put 'em back one by one until the problem reoccurs... I think > this is the way the dealership does it, except they don't put 'em back. ;) > > ----- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: http://freegift.com > SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf > SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Mon, 1 Dec 2008, Kobe Benny wrote: > > # If my electronic ignition module is bad will the engine run for a couple of > # minutes then all of a sudden just quit for no reason. What else could this be > # a symptom of ? I have check everything. KOBY > # _________________________________________________________________ Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_spe ed_12 2008 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 19:51:46 +0000 From: Michel Balea Subject: RE: fsj: 1976 Jeep Wagoneer Whaoooo, pebbles in the gas tank... at least they do not float... the pick up is above the gas tank pick up. It is also a good idea to add a fuel filter before the fuel pump.... you can use a fram G2.... you will be surprised by what is trapped, in my case: rust and last week some shiny metal flakes..... I have not tested them yet... theyt are drying.... you can loop a 5/16 fuel line from the OEM line before the fuel pump to the inner fender skirt, away from moving or hot parts, drill a few holes and secure w zip ties.... and route it back to the fuel pump Of course I am running an electric pump... but the set up is similar. Michel > Subject: RE: fsj: 1976 Jeep Wagoneer > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 12:05:50 -0700 > From: landon.tesar-at-freescale.com > To: mbalea-at-hotmail.com; john-at-wagoneers.com; fozgrin-at-yahoo.com > CC: fsj-at-digest.net > > Yes, please check for partially clogged fuel line, loss of > pressure/vacuum in the line, and clogged exit at the fuel tank...blow > back through the line into the tank, see if that helps extend the run > time. > I had pebbles in the gas tank > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of > Michel Balea > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 12:34 PM > To: john wagoneer; fozgrin-at-yahoo.com > Cc: fsj digest > Subject: RE: fsj: 1976 Jeep Wagoneer > > As John said. > > What is the setup on your 76, it should be prestolite? the distributor w > the > funky double vacuum advance! > > How many miles > Seems like you have gas, as it starts but dies after a couple of > minutes. > > > Test the coil after it fails, When coils warm up they change their > resistance > value, connect a spark plug to any boot w a good ground contact and > crank.... > it should spark. > > As for the ignition switch, you can wire directly from the battery > positive to > the coil -using the appropriate resistor value to lower the current > voltage- > Not too sure about the prestolite set up. > > Michel > 74 wag... ready to graduate to 85 Gwag > > > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 22:14:24 -0800 > > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > > To: fozgrin-at-yahoo.com > > CC: fsj-at-digest.net > > Subject: Re: fsj: 1976 Jeep Wagoneer > > > > module, > > points/electronic pickup > > bad ground > > dying coil > > clogged fuel filter, return lines, gas cap > > > > try running it with a timing light attached... and maybe > > with a clear section of line on the fuel line... > > > > of course it'll probably run until you empty the tank... but > > who knows... you might see a bubble in the line or a loss of spark... > > > > or you could just buy all the parts, swap 'em out and if it > > fixes it put 'em back one by one until the problem reoccurs... I think > > this is the way the dealership does it, except they don't put 'em > back. ;) > > > > ----- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > > http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: http://freegift.com > > SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf > > SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > On Mon, 1 Dec 2008, Kobe Benny wrote: > > > > # If my electronic ignition module is bad will the engine run for a > couple > of > > # minutes then all of a sudden just quit for no reason. What else > could > this be > > # a symptom of ? I have check everything. KOBY > > # > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. > http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_spe > ed_12 > 2008 _________________________________________________________________ Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed_12 2008 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 16:47:58 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: cummins what kind of mileage would a '92 Dodge 250 with a cummins get? might take a look at this one... http://wagoneers.com/tmp/1992DodgePU11-10-08001.JPG http://wagoneers.com/tmp/1992DodgePU11-10-08013.JPG would get rid of my trailer, the blazer and the 2 j10s... and try to put a dump bed on the dodge... would still have three vehicles... ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: http://freegift.com SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 17:02:07 -0800 From: Kevin Subject: fsj: Re: [db] cummins Depends on the gearing. Keep in mind the early cummins dodges aren't real barnburners (the 7.3 non turbo ford made more power, believe it or not), and the early four speed auto sometimes wasn't up to the task of the cummins. If it has a 727, it's going to have something like 3.07 gears in it, and while it'll be fine on the freeway... well, 3.07 gears with 32" tires, you do the math. Mileage will depend on gears and how stock it is. I'd plan on getting 16 out of it on the highway and lousy mileage around town if a 727, probably better around town but similar on the highway if it's a four speed auto, and if you get more, be happy with it. Mileages I hear about cummins dodges is all over the map, from as low as 13 to as high as 22 out of the autotragics. On Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 04:47:58PM -0800, john wrote: > what kind of mileage would a '92 Dodge 250 with a cummins get? > > might take a look at this one... > http://wagoneers.com/tmp/1992DodgePU11-10-08001.JPG > http://wagoneers.com/tmp/1992DodgePU11-10-08013.JPG > > would get rid of my trailer, the blazer and the 2 j10s... and try to put a dump bed on the dodge... > would still have three vehicles... ;) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 18:38:39 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: 1976 Jeep Wagoneer Prestolite runs 12VDC without a resistor to the coil. (according to what I have read anyways) Motorcraft definitely has a resistor wire. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > From: mbalea-at-hotmail.com > To: john-at-wagoneers.com; fozgrin-at-yahoo.com > CC: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: fsj: 1976 Jeep Wagoneer > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 18:33:40 +0000 > > As John said. > > What is the setup on your 76, it should be prestolite? the distributor w the > funky double vacuum advance! > > How many miles > Seems like you have gas, as it starts but dies after a couple of minutes. > > > Test the coil after it fails, When coils warm up they change their resistance > value, connect a spark plug to any boot w a good ground contact and crank.... > it should spark. > > As for the ignition switch, you can wire directly from the battery positive to > the coil -using the appropriate resistor value to lower the current voltage- > Not too sure about the prestolite set up. > > Michel > 74 wag... ready to graduate to 85 Gwag > >> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 22:14:24 -0800 >> From: john-at-wagoneers.com >> To: fozgrin-at-yahoo.com >> CC: fsj-at-digest.net >> Subject: Re: fsj: 1976 Jeep Wagoneer >> >> module, >> points/electronic pickup >> bad ground >> dying coil >> clogged fuel filter, return lines, gas cap >> >> try running it with a timing light attached... and maybe >> with a clear section of line on the fuel line... >> >> of course it'll probably run until you empty the tank... but >> who knows... you might see a bubble in the line or a loss of spark... >> >> or you could just buy all the parts, swap 'em out and if it >> fixes it put 'em back one by one until the problem reoccurs... I think >> this is the way the dealership does it, except they don't put 'em back. ;) >> >> ----- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >> http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: http://freegift.com >> SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf >> SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> On Mon, 1 Dec 2008, Kobe Benny wrote: >> >> # If my electronic ignition module is bad will the engine run for a couple > of >> # minutes then all of a sudden just quit for no reason. What else could > this be >> # a symptom of ? I have check everything. KOBY >> # > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. > http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed_12 > 2008 _________________________________________________________________ Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed_12 2008 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 20:24:21 -0700 From: "Tesar Landon" Subject: fsj: RE: cummins Have some experience here, I know you don't like to shift but purchasing an auto this old, is the weakness in that truck, and also a big loss of mileage. It slips a lot, creates heat, wears out. Mileage in TX and mileage in Washington are going to be different. You should make 19 mpg unloaded easily, and I got 18 pulling an old IHC pickup home from Nebraska in Dad's '93 D250LE. Big, comfortable truck. The Overdrive cutout button is on the dash. You know, Mopar just can't drop that push button auto... - - Landon - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 6:48 PM To: full size jeep list; diesel-benz list; FParker Subject: fsj: cummins what kind of mileage would a '92 Dodge 250 with a cummins get? might take a look at this one... http://wagoneers.com/tmp/1992DodgePU11-10-08001.JPG http://wagoneers.com/tmp/1992DodgePU11-10-08013.JPG would get rid of my trailer, the blazer and the 2 j10s... and try to put a dump bed on the dodge... would still have three vehicles... ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: http://freegift.com SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 20:25:42 -0700 From: "Tesar Landon" Subject: fsj: RE: cummins Oh, that's 4WD, Dad's cousin in Idaho has one, with manual, 20mpg consistently. - - Landon - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 6:48 PM To: full size jeep list; diesel-benz list; FParker Subject: fsj: cummins what kind of mileage would a '92 Dodge 250 with a cummins get? might take a look at this one... http://wagoneers.com/tmp/1992DodgePU11-10-08001.JPG http://wagoneers.com/tmp/1992DodgePU11-10-08013.JPG would get rid of my trailer, the blazer and the 2 j10s... and try to put a dump bed on the dodge... would still have three vehicles... ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: http://freegift.com SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3213 **************************