From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Jul 21 22:57:42 2009 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, July 22 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3382 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: [db] Re: Diesels and ATs fsj: size difference? fsj: Voltage AT Coil RE: fsj: Voltage AT Coil Re: fsj: Voltage AT Coil Re: fsj: Voltage AT Coil Re: fsj: Voltage AT Coil Re: fsj: Voltage AT Coil RE: fsj: Voltage AT Coil RE: fsj: Voltage AT Coil RE: fsj: Voltage AT Coil fsj: FW: Willy's jeep pickup 4x4 (Burien) $1000 fsj: the reality check FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 13:34:14 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] Re: Diesels and ATs all these adapters add a lot of expense... :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 20 Jul 2009, Kevin wrote: # Asked the person who had the adapter I saw for the 722.3 to toyota truck case, # and he pointed me to where he got most of it: # http://www.ottindustries.com/divorcetoyota.htm # # If you were going to go this route, you'd need either an older J10 front axle # to get passenger drop, use the toyota case as a crawl box (marlin crawler # style) and have the rear case be driver's drop (probably the route I'd go) # or something like this to flip the toy case over to driver's drop: # http://www.inchwormgear.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=1001&osCsid=f88bc0757f3086cd829b0e284e1826b1 # # Part of the reason I'd go with the crawl box option is it might not be a whole # lot more expensive to go that route than flip the case and it opens a lot of # doors on the trail. # # The early J-10 axle is going to be the easiest, though. # # Don't forget if you're putting the mercedes transmission into something, # that conventional thought with respect to gearing gets thrown out the window # since it has a low first (3.6:1?) and no overdrive. # # On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:20:58AM -0700, Kevin wrote: # > The roll your own option has some merits as well. I saw a picture a while # > back where a guy adapted off the back of the 722.3's three bolt rubber # > donut a four bolt flange that attached to a spline that was attached to # > a toyota pickup transfercase. Lots of people use pieces of the old pickup # > transfercase between their existing transmission and another transfercase # > for a crawl box, and the old ones (from the carbed trucks) were gear driven # > and quite stout. But its problem is the same as that diesel landcruiser you # > posted - it's passenger drop. # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 13:42:54 -0700 (PDT) From: diesel john Subject: fsj: size difference? other than weight, does anyone know what the relative differences are in size between a Jeep 4.2 and: Jeep 4.0 (think it's the same block) = 0 SD33/SD33T = ? Mercedes I-5 Diesel = ? guess a better question is, what would be reliable and consistent points to measure on the different engines? thanx, john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:27:52 -0500 From: Zee Man Subject: fsj: Voltage AT Coil Since my mechanicin skills are limited... Can anyof you tell me if i have less then 12v at teh coil... Its like 10v Is teh ignition module possibley bad then.. It runs fine until above 3500 RPM where it seams to not miss but not have power either... Bob Zabawa 78 Jeep Cherokee 401 77 gremlin 401 _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live^Y Hotmail.: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL _QA_HM_sports_photos_072009&cat=sports ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:09:39 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Voltage AT Coil Because they use a points type coil in the FSJs, it runs less than 12 volts. Do a search for Jeep ignition upgrade. (It's called something else too, that I can't quite recall) Team something or other. (Team Rush. http://www.geocities.com/jeepboyjus/TR_Ignition_Upgrade.html ) Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will like them only Entangle and hold the poor and weak, while the rich and powerful will easily break through them ANACHARSIS Scythian philosopher (fl. 600 BC) > From: z_man401-at-hotmail.com > To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: Voltage AT Coil > Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:27:52 -0500 > > Since my mechanicin skills are limited... Can anyof you tell me if i have > less then 12v at teh coil... Its like 10v Is teh ignition module possibley > bad then.. > > It runs fine until above 3500 RPM where it seams to not miss but not have > power either... > > > > > > Bob Zabawa > > 78 Jeep Cherokee 401 > > 77 gremlin 401 > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live^Y Hotmail.: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. > Check it out. > http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL > _QA_HM_sports_photos_072009&cat=sports _________________________________________________________________ NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here. http://windowslive.com/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_MB_new_hotmail_072009 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:35:42 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: fsj: Voltage AT Coil The only jeep ignition upgrade worth doing is putting a points distributor in. (you there, JC?) seriously, most either swap in ford stuff (the TFI upgrade, also known as thin film ignition) or GM stuff (HEI, Zack sells this). On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 09:09:39PM -0700, Jim Blair wrote: > Because they use a points type coil in the FSJs, it runs less than 12 volts. > Do a search for Jeep ignition upgrade. (It's called something else too, that I > can't quite recall) Team something or other. (Team Rush. > http://www.geocities.com/jeepboyjus/TR_Ignition_Upgrade.html ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:58:55 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Voltage AT Coil what about petronics or whatever that one kit is that gets rid of points? I dislike points... I dislike carburators... I dislike gasonline... I dislike drum brakes... :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 20 Jul 2009, Kevin wrote: # The only jeep ignition upgrade worth doing is putting a points distributor # in. (you there, JC?) # # seriously, most either swap in ford stuff (the TFI upgrade, also known as # thin film ignition) or GM stuff (HEI, Zack sells this). # # On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 09:09:39PM -0700, Jim Blair wrote: # > Because they use a points type coil in the FSJs, it runs less than 12 volts. # > Do a search for Jeep ignition upgrade. (It's called something else too, that I # > can't quite recall) Team something or other. (Team Rush. # > http://www.geocities.com/jeepboyjus/TR_Ignition_Upgrade.html ) # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:58:22 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: fsj: Voltage AT Coil The pertronix ignitor goes into a points distributor. I did this on the brown 74 you saw in medford, though it was a points rig when you saw it. Tossup as to what I'd do. Probably would suggest the HEI setup, but for the 74 wanted something I could ducttape on the side of the road without an expensive spare module. The TFI has a bit of a parts list, but might be cheaper than the kits for HEI, even though I'd probably suggest the HEI having dealt with plenty of fords from the TFI era ;) On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 10:58:55PM -0700, john wrote: > what about petronics or whatever that one kit is that gets rid of points? > > I dislike points... I dislike carburators... I dislike gasonline... I dislike drum brakes... :) > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Mon, 20 Jul 2009, Kevin wrote: > > # The only jeep ignition upgrade worth doing is putting a points distributor > # in. (you there, JC?) > # > # seriously, most either swap in ford stuff (the TFI upgrade, also known as > # thin film ignition) or GM stuff (HEI, Zack sells this). > # > # On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 09:09:39PM -0700, Jim Blair wrote: > # > Because they use a points type coil in the FSJs, it runs less than 12 volts. > # > Do a search for Jeep ignition upgrade. (It's called something else too, that I > # > can't quite recall) Team something or other. (Team Rush. > # > http://www.geocities.com/jeepboyjus/TR_Ignition_Upgrade.html ) > # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 23:03:35 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: fsj: Voltage AT Coil Price point is worth adding. The pertronix ran somewhere just shy of $100. Might have been as low as $85 or 90 shipped, can't remember. If you hit a junkyard and are good at wheeling and dealing, the TFI setup might run you $40-50. Dropin HEI, probably still the best setup since you don't have the motorcraft stuff already will be around $200. Replacement modules when they fry are $50, but the TFI is two pieces and they're each roughly that expensive, can't remember exactly though, so assume error is +/- 20 each. On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 10:58:22PM -0700, Kevin wrote: > The pertronix ignitor goes into a points distributor. I did this on the brown > 74 you saw in medford, though it was a points rig when you saw it. > > Tossup as to what I'd do. Probably would suggest the HEI setup, but for the > 74 wanted something I could ducttape on the side of the road without an > expensive spare module. The TFI has a bit of a parts list, but might be cheaper > than the kits for HEI, even though I'd probably suggest the HEI having dealt > with plenty of fords from the TFI era ;) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 06:13:38 +0000 From: Michel Balea Subject: RE: fsj: Voltage AT Coil I did them all... points to pertronix "good" to HEI "better" depends on how much $$ and energy you want to waste, spend or entertain. In the end I would say that the pertronix was the best money spent, a bit annoying to set up initially. The HEI is harder to debug is there is any problem, and the JEEP duraspark even if too complex because of the excess wiring is the easiest to debug. So 10volts is good. And from my point of vue $$$/install: pertronix, duraspark, HEI, the duraspark is the cheapest (pars are all over the junkyards), the duraspark is more involved for collecting parts, and the HEI the more expensive but easiest to install (one wire), except that you may have to install a longer PS belt. Back to 10 volts... if you are running the OEM wire w the resistor wire, you will have 10 volts but not the amps, so you may be better off running a new wire w a ceramic resistor of about 1.32 ohms. Checks w Tom Collins web site. I am currently running the HEI on the 74 wag. I am not sure if I have the correct timing curve, but it works and starts without any issues, but it was the same w the pertronix, or the MSD. The duraspark works on the 85 and has been trouble free as I have secured the grounds which seems to be the most troubled issue: so battery ground to distributor base, and module to ground.\ Michel 74 wag > Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:58:22 -0700 > From: kevin-at-mordred.punk.net > To: john-at-wagoneers.com > CC: carnuck1-at-msn.com; z_man401-at-hotmail.com; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: fsj: Voltage AT Coil > > The pertronix ignitor goes into a points distributor. I did this on the brown > 74 you saw in medford, though it was a points rig when you saw it. > > Tossup as to what I'd do. Probably would suggest the HEI setup, but for the > 74 wanted something I could ducttape on the side of the road without an > expensive spare module. The TFI has a bit of a parts list, but might be cheaper > than the kits for HEI, even though I'd probably suggest the HEI having dealt > with plenty of fords from the TFI era ;) > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 10:58:55PM -0700, john wrote: > > what about petronics or whatever that one kit is that gets rid of points? > > > > I dislike points... I dislike carburators... I dislike gasonline... I dislike drum brakes... :) > > > > > > > > ----- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > On Mon, 20 Jul 2009, Kevin wrote: > > > > # The only jeep ignition upgrade worth doing is putting a points distributor > > # in. (you there, JC?) > > # > > # seriously, most either swap in ford stuff (the TFI upgrade, also known as > > # thin film ignition) or GM stuff (HEI, Zack sells this). > > # > > # On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 09:09:39PM -0700, Jim Blair wrote: > > # > Because they use a points type coil in the FSJs, it runs less than 12 volts. > > # > Do a search for Jeep ignition upgrade. (It's called something else too, that I > > # > can't quite recall) Team something or other. (Team Rush. > > # > http://www.geocities.com/jeepboyjus/TR_Ignition_Upgrade.html ) > > # _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live^Y Hotmail.: Search, add, and share the web^Rs latest sports videos. Check it out. http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL _QA_HM_sports_videos_072009&cat=sports ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 23:14:59 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Voltage AT Coil The coil was the same one used with points, but used in Jeep electronic ignition. Very low output. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 - ---------------------------------------- > Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:58:22 -0700 > From: kevin-at-mordred.punk.net > To: john-at-wagoneers.com > CC: carnuck1-at-msn.com; z_man401-at-hotmail.com; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: fsj: Voltage AT Coil > > The pertronix ignitor goes into a points distributor. I did this on the brown > 74 you saw in medford, though it was a points rig when you saw it. > > Tossup as to what I'd do. Probably would suggest the HEI setup, but for the > 74 wanted something I could ducttape on the side of the road without an > expensive spare module. The TFI has a bit of a parts list, but might be cheaper > than the kits for HEI, even though I'd probably suggest the HEI having dealt > with plenty of fords from the TFI era ;) > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 10:58:55PM -0700, john wrote: >> what about petronics or whatever that one kit is that gets rid of points? >> >> I dislike points... I dislike carburators... I dislike gasonline... I dislike drum brakes... :) >> >> >> >> ----- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >> http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org >> http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> On Mon, 20 Jul 2009, Kevin wrote: >> >> # The only jeep ignition upgrade worth doing is putting a points distributor >> # in. (you there, JC?) >> # >> # seriously, most either swap in ford stuff (the TFI upgrade, also known as >> # thin film ignition) or GM stuff (HEI, Zack sells this). >> # >> # On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 09:09:39PM -0700, Jim Blair wrote: >> #> Because they use a points type coil in the FSJs, it runs less than 12 volts. >> #> Do a search for Jeep ignition upgrade. (It's called something else too, that I >> #> can't quite recall) Team something or other. (Team Rush. >> #> http://www.geocities.com/jeepboyjus/TR_Ignition_Upgrade.html ) >> # _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live^Y SkyDrive^Y: Store, access, and share your photos. See how. http://windowslive.com/Online/SkyDrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_SD_photos_072009 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:13:22 +0000 From: Michel Balea Subject: RE: fsj: Voltage AT Coil one more point..... the HEI is not adjustable unless you swap the vaccum canister (there is a number or ref stamped on the canister that tells you at which vaccum you have the max advance). I have an article somewhere from one of those hotrod guys that give the whole specs. I can post it when I find it. the duraspark distributor canister is adjustable w an allen wrench nudged inside the vaccum inlet. Michel 74wag > From: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > To: kevin-at-mordred.punk.net; john-at-wagoneers.com > CC: carnuck1-at-msn.com; z_man401-at-hotmail.com; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: fsj: Voltage AT Coil > Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 23:14:59 -0700 > > The coil was the same one used with points, but used in Jeep electronic > ignition. Very low output. > > > > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:58:22 -0700 > > From: kevin-at-mordred.punk.net > > To: john-at-wagoneers.com > > CC: carnuck1-at-msn.com; z_man401-at-hotmail.com; fsj-at-digest.net > > Subject: Re: fsj: Voltage AT Coil > > > > The pertronix ignitor goes into a points distributor. I did this on the > brown > > 74 you saw in medford, though it was a points rig when you saw it. > > > > Tossup as to what I'd do. Probably would suggest the HEI setup, but for the > > 74 wanted something I could ducttape on the side of the road without an > > expensive spare module. The TFI has a bit of a parts list, but might be > cheaper > > than the kits for HEI, even though I'd probably suggest the HEI having > dealt > > with plenty of fords from the TFI era ;) > > > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 10:58:55PM -0700, john wrote: > >> what about petronics or whatever that one kit is that gets rid of points? > >> > >> I dislike points... I dislike carburators... I dislike gasonline... I > dislike drum brakes... :) > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > >> http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > >> http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 20 Jul 2009, Kevin wrote: > >> > >> # The only jeep ignition upgrade worth doing is putting a points > distributor > >> # in. (you there, JC?) > >> # > >> # seriously, most either swap in ford stuff (the TFI upgrade, also known > as > >> # thin film ignition) or GM stuff (HEI, Zack sells this). > >> # > >> # On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 09:09:39PM -0700, Jim Blair wrote: > >> #> Because they use a points type coil in the FSJs, it runs less than 12 > volts. > >> #> Do a search for Jeep ignition upgrade. (It's called something else too, > that I > >> #> can't quite recall) Team something or other. (Team Rush. > >> #> http://www.geocities.com/jeepboyjus/TR_Ignition_Upgrade.html ) > >> # > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live^Y SkyDrive^Y: Store, access, and share your photos. See how. > http://windowslive.com/Online/SkyDrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_SD_photos_072009 _________________________________________________________________ NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here. http://windowslive.com/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_MB_new_hotmail_072009 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 08:43:43 -0700 From: "Joe" Subject: fsj: FW: Willy's jeep pickup 4x4 (Burien) $1000 Great deal on a 49 Willys pickup! Joe H. Feed: craigslist seattle-tacoma | all for sale / wanted search for "willys" Posted on: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:43 AM Author: webmaster-at-craigslist.org Subject: Willy's jeep pickup 4x4 (Burien) $1000 1949 willys jeep pickup - project truck (still needs work) will need to be trailerd. Chevy 350 & turbo 350 installed. Call 206-799-8932 for details. View article... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 22:57:10 -0700 (PDT) From: diesel john Subject: fsj: the reality check Finally sat down and figured out all the swap combinations and drive train options for my '83 J10 stepside and the '86 cj-10a. I looked at using a Mercedes Diesel (617/602 or 603) mated to an AW4 (XJ auto), or even my T-5... the SD33T... a Cummins(onan) 6AT, another 6.2... then I looked at the parts pile I have, and my checkbook... ...all I need to do is get ONE SD33T running, either buy fixing/swapping the IP in the one I have or buying one I know of... then mate it to my spare 727, of course having it gone through and mated to a Jeep np208... then drop the entire adventure into the J10... one swap... one time... :) (too bad the SD33T that I have didn't work. :( While it would be cool to put a turbo in the tug, or a 4.0/AW4, but there's no real point to it... I can't justify having two toys, and my '83 J10 stepside is a nicer riding rig with a/c, more room, more capability... I like the cj-10a, but while very cool, it just isn't as good as my J10. So, I considered putting a Mercedes 617/602 or 603 in the J10, but there are no adapters to automatics... then considering the costs of adapters or the effort involved in making my own, the SD33T/727 will work just fine, and makes sense... proven technology in the Scouts, giving 20/24 mpg in a vehicle with the same weight/tires/gears... I still need to get that flex plate, a torque converter, and change the output shaft in the 727 and have it shiftkitted... unless someone nearby has a complete 727 setup for the Jeep NP198 or 208... I have a good Aw4 to trade... or a Scout T19/Dana 300... or a C6/NP205... Hopefully my J10 will be reassembled with the 4.2/T5/np208 and painted here within the next few weeks... then I can gather up all the bits and pieces to build a functioning Diesel drivetrain that will basically drop right in... :) once the J10 is functioning then the tug will be up for sale... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3382 **************************