From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Jan 10 22:58:27 2010 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, January 11 2010 Volume 01 : Number 3512 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: 97 E300D comments fsj: popcorn update RE: fsj: am fm cb radio wiring RE: fsj: am fm cb radio wiring RE: fsj: popcorn update FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 18:09:03 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: 97 E300D comments this was great, thanx.... I'm going to consider the toyota Diesel 2wd truck that looks like crap instead... ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sun, 10 Jan 2010, Steve Morelen wrote: # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # This is from mercedeslist.com (old R-E list). The author is Jim Mahaffey. He is well qualified in speaking of MBs (electronics in particular, I believe). If memory serves, he was one of the technical speakers when the MBCA annual technical meeting convened in my neighborhood a few years ago. # # I like his closing comment about being able to fix anything for 2K. :-) # # *********************** # # --Forwarded Message Attachment-- # From: benzdr-at-bellsouth.net # To: mercedes-at-mercedeslist.com # Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 15:29:24 -0500 # Subject: Re: [MB] '97 E300 diesel quality # # Steve, # # The '97 E300 diesel is a solid machine, and it will give dependable # transportation for hundreds of thousands of miles with minimal # maintenance. Limitations of the previous generation of diesel engines, # the extremely successful OM617s, were all addressed in the fresh design # of the 6-cylinder, non-turbocharged engine. It has 4 valves per # cylinder, 12 intake ports, and a tunable "organ-pipe" air-induction # system. This is the last example of mechanical diesel injection that # will be made by M-B. The W210 body is highly advanced over the previous # generation, with notable improvements in maintenance procedures and # diagnostics. # # BUT: # # 1) The wiring harness is extremely complex, fragile, poorly designed, # and expensive to replace. Honestly, this car has the worst example of # automobile wiring I have ever seen, and that includes a lot of British # wiring. # # 2) The glow-plugs and the associated aluminum head were designed with # the assumption that the glow-plugs would never need to be replaced. The # glow-plugs burn out often. Replacement of glow-plugs will challenge the # very basis of your knowledge, skills, patience, mental stability, and # religious beliefs. # # 3) The management of fuel before it enters the fuel injection pump is # astonishingly poor. Short lengths of plastic piping with delicate # couplings and half-hearted O-ring seals seem to have replaced steel # pipes in earlier engines. This system can't withstand a small change in # fuel chemistry, aging, cold, heat, or vibration. # # 4) The efficiency of the A/C condenser is improved greatly in a new, # flat-tube design, giving maximum surface area in a compacted space. It # will fail. # # 5) In my neighborhood, diesel fuel is now more expensive than premium # gasoline. Spark-ignition car designs have now eliminated the carburetor # and the distributor, they will run for hundreds of thousands of miles, # and spark-plugs last a lot longer than glow-plugs. Why do I want a # diesel? # # Just bear in mind, nothing will happen to this car that $2K can't fix. # # Jim # # ************************************************* # # # _________________________________________________________________ # Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. # http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390708/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 20:29:26 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: popcorn update shopping: NO: - - '97 E300 Diesel... didn't go and look... input from the collective was such that while I may take it for a test drive I doubt I'd take the risk of owning a W210 model... someone already replaced the stock rims, stock radio and the headlights are already clouded... all that remains is several 2K repairs to a known to be wonky climate control, a fragile fuel system and a myriad of other issues. NO: - - '86 Ford Ranger Diesel... needs too much for the money... the 5 speed is a fright. MAYBE: - - '84 Toyota Diesel 2.4L n/a, 5 speed 2wd... looks like crap, but runs and drives like new... the rust is a result of a lumber rack and excessive exposure to water on bare metal... and of course crappy metal... my jeeps don't rust liket his with bare metal... however, my jeeps don't get 35 mpg either. giving serious thought to this one... runs great... not slow feeling at all... tranny is tight! 190K. http://johnmeister.com/DIESELS/1984-Toyota-Diesel/ALL.html THOUGHTS? the rust may look bad, but it's not a big worry, really... doesn't need anything but paint, and of course some duct tape first over the rust holes in the bed... but that's just a good drain for WVO... I liked the way the Ranger drove, the engine was great, ride nice, etc... but it needed too much mechanically, this toyota is perfect... oh, needs glow plugs and the timing belt replaced... but otherwise it drives GREAT... tight trans, new brakes, fresh filters... It handled great... I tossed it around pretty hard in the foothills, it was very predictable and well mannered... this one also gets the vote from my favorite professional mechanic. - -------- projects: - - '89 Cherokee Limited - fixed the window.. all that remains are a few minor repairs that are unnecessary, and a stereo... haven't decided yet which one I'm going to use... guess it depends on the outcome of the title/paperwork and whether or not I get the Toyota pickup... if it works out that I keep this jeep I'll put a nice unit in... waiting on the title... Washed it today... looking good, running good... just need the paperwork... argh. - - '00 WJ (Grand Cherokee) - should be reassembled and ready to go this week... will be up for sale after I make sure all systems are good and photograph it... new tires, new battery, 28k on the replacement motor, nice stereo, leather, clean... should be a nice rig. Have a small dealership with a nice clean '98 TDI with an offer that might consider a straight trade... we'll see... I'd lose a couple grand in value, but it was a nice clean TDI... and I have no money, just jeeps... ;) - - 91 300D... glow plug light still comes on... but it's running fine, if this persists for another week I will get more serious about the problem and use a good meter to see if the replacement glow plug is the same as the others or if the controller is failing. This has been such a good car... no real point to taking on the risk of a newer Mercedes... thanx all for the comments and feedback... :) - - 99 WJ - just keeps going... gassed up at $2.65 at costco... wish they had Diesel. ;) average fuel economy over the last four years of ownership is 14.43 mpg... not exactly an economy car, but sure is nice on long trips, and it'll go anywhere... quadradrive and Bridgestone Revo ATs... great combo... - - 83 J10 - waiting... after all the research, shopping, experimention, custom builds/swaps and ownership, it just keeps coming back to this old step side pickup... and the SD33T/TF727/NP208 setup... it's the right size, the right look, the right feel... I am so looking forward to the completion of superdawg... later, john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 05:47:36 +0000 From: Michel Balea Subject: RE: fsj: am fm cb radio wiring Thanks for your help. The black wires speaker(s) and ground are all connected. Orange is dashlight (+) and brown is (+). It worked, there is some static, but using a screwdriver into an old antenna wire is not ideal, so are the alligator clips to connect the salvaged speaker. FM is really good. I could not pick up any CB and the AM is poor... but the redneck antenna is probably the culprit. This radio is neat, when you select CB stand-by the radio is still in the background. There is some static when changing wavelength on the radio, but it was less and less present as I used the radio which has been stored in a box for the last 3 years or so. The SW meter is not registering anything, but its display is lit when CB or standby is selected. Cheers Michel > Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 09:43:22 -0800 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: proj96xj-at-insightbb.com > CC: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: fsj: am fm cb radio wiring > > the 'B' is michele, not the wiring info, > and black in DC circuits is almost always > ground or a return. > > B voltage for tubes was for the plate and > was typically 300V. > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Sun, 10 Jan 2010, Neal Hoover wrote: > > # in the olden days, "B" in wiring diagrams referred > # to Battery. B1 and B2 would mean that both of > # those wires would go to 12V+. one for the amp > # power and one for the CB power perhaps. white and > # green for one speaker and brown and orange for the > # other speaker. ground by bolting the chassis into > # the dash. > # now, i'm by no means saying that's what it is, but > # it's feasible in my book. > # > # Neal A. Hoover > # Project '76 J-10 > # Project '96 XJ > # http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj > # > # ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" > # > # To: "Michel Balea" > # Cc: "fsj digest" > # Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:11 AM > # Subject: Re: fsj: am fm cb radio wiring > # > # > # >I looked through every manual from '76 - '82. > # >the cb info was in the '80 manual > # > however NO wiring info... > # > > # > ok, so if tan and green are the speakers then > # > black should go with EACH of them... > # > > # > try metering the black leads and see if they are > # > connected internally. > # > > # > if not ohm the tan/black until you get a > # > reading, you'll need to reverse the > # > leads as this will probably be the output of a > # > power transistor. > # > > # > Then ohm the black to the case. My guess is > # > that they may be connected to each > # > other but NOT the case... reason is they may be > # > using a push-pull amplifier > # > to get the power output, if you ground the > # > speakers you'll blow the amp... but > # > if that was the case there most likely would be > # > a label saying not to ground > # > the speakers... any such label? (this is why > # > you are not supposed to ground > # > a speaker... that and you'll get a lot of > # > noise...) > # > > # > I'm thinking that this thing gets it's ground > # > through the case as the coax > # > cable is attached to the case... which makes > # > sense, you want that as a shield > # > for the CB. > # > > # > So, to solve your problem, ohm the black lines > # > to each other if b1 and b2 > # > are connected then those are the returns for the > # > speakers... if they > # > are connected to the case ground directly then > # > they are just running those > # > lines for the speaker returns... what the meter > # > carefully when you go > # > black to case, reverse the leads when you do... > # > if you get a difference > # > switching the leads you do not want to ground > # > those black lines. :) > # > > # > the other way is to bench test it... make sure > # > you have an antenna connected > # > although you won't damage the CB output amp > # > unless you key the mike... > # > > # > connect a pair of wires to the speaker, if they > # > work, see if they work with the black > # > leads switched... my guess is they will. > # > > # > also, you can optimize the speaker sound by > # > connecting them up so they sound the > # > best... I think the trick is to put it on an AM > # > station... then switch the leads > # > to the speaker until it's the clearest... (I > # > used to be a tv/radio repair man > # > way, way, way back... before SuperDawg was > # > born... late '60s... back when tubes > # > were tubes and transistors were new fangled > # > devices...:) > # > > # > > # > the white wire is dash light? > # > orange power? > # > > # > john > # > > # > ----- > # > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps > # > don't rust, they mold > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > # > http:http://creationwiki.org > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com > # > http:http://fotomeister.us > # > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > > # > > # > On Sun, 10 Jan 2010, Michel Balea wrote: > # > > # > # I need to wire that pristine radio that I got > # > # for a steal at the local > # > yard. > # > # > # > # I can figure orange (+) /brown (+) and the > # > # speakers. The only catch is > # > that I > # > # have 2 black wires on the side and was > # > # wondering which is which Ground > # > and > # > # speaker ground? Basically I could ground the > # > # chassis and disregard one > # > of the > # > # black wires (labelled B1 and B2) on the > # > # following pict: > # > # > # > # http://picasaweb.google.com/jeepmr/FSJ#5424903747235616306 > # > # > # > # I have the antenna splitter for the CB/radio > # > # signal. > # > # > # > # Thanks for the input. > # > # > # > # Michel > # > # > # > # > # _________________________________________________________________ > # > # Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft^Rs > # > # powerful SPAM protection. > # > # http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390706/direct/01/ > # > # > # > # http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390710/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:55:31 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: am fm cb radio wiring make sure you have a properly tuned antenna before you key that mic. if you use the correct coxial cable it should help a lot... an old ham store or even a truck stop should be helpful... radio shack ain't about radios any more. :) I want to say the coax should be 59 ohms, but it's been too many years since my FCC exam and license... :) really, it was 1977 the last time I worked in a radio station... KAGO am and fm in Klamath Falls, OR... I forgot my name on the air and quit on Monday morning... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 11 Jan 2010, Michel Balea wrote: # # Thanks for your help. The black wires speaker(s) and ground are all connected. Orange is dashlight (+) and brown is (+). # # It worked, there is some static, but using a screwdriver into an old antenna wire is not ideal, so are the alligator clips to connect the salvaged speaker. FM is really good. I could not pick up any CB and the AM is poor... but the redneck antenna is probably the culprit. # # This radio is neat, when you select CB stand-by the radio is still in the background. # # There is some static when changing wavelength on the radio, but it was less and less present as I used the radio which has been stored in a box for the last 3 years or so. # # The SW meter is not registering anything, but its display is lit when CB or standby is selected. # # Cheers # # Michel # # > Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 09:43:22 -0800 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: proj96xj-at-insightbb.com # > CC: fsj-at-digest.net # > Subject: Re: fsj: am fm cb radio wiring # > # > the 'B' is michele, not the wiring info, # > and black in DC circuits is almost always # > ground or a return. # > # > B voltage for tubes was for the plate and # > was typically 300V. # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Sun, 10 Jan 2010, Neal Hoover wrote: # > # > # in the olden days, "B" in wiring diagrams referred # > # to Battery. B1 and B2 would mean that both of # > # those wires would go to 12V+. one for the amp # > # power and one for the CB power perhaps. white and # > # green for one speaker and brown and orange for the # > # other speaker. ground by bolting the chassis into # > # the dash. # > # now, i'm by no means saying that's what it is, but # > # it's feasible in my book. # > # # > # Neal A. Hoover # > # Project '76 J-10 # > # Project '96 XJ # > # http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj # > # # > # ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" # > # # > # To: "Michel Balea" # > # Cc: "fsj digest" # > # Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:11 AM # > # Subject: Re: fsj: am fm cb radio wiring # > # # > # # > # >I looked through every manual from '76 - '82. # > # >the cb info was in the '80 manual # > # > however NO wiring info... # > # > # > # > ok, so if tan and green are the speakers then # > # > black should go with EACH of them... # > # > # > # > try metering the black leads and see if they are # > # > connected internally. # > # > # > # > if not ohm the tan/black until you get a # > # > reading, you'll need to reverse the # > # > leads as this will probably be the output of a # > # > power transistor. # > # > # > # > Then ohm the black to the case. My guess is # > # > that they may be connected to each # > # > other but NOT the case... reason is they may be # > # > using a push-pull amplifier # > # > to get the power output, if you ground the # > # > speakers you'll blow the amp... but # > # > if that was the case there most likely would be # > # > a label saying not to ground # > # > the speakers... any such label? (this is why # > # > you are not supposed to ground # > # > a speaker... that and you'll get a lot of # > # > noise...) # > # > # > # > I'm thinking that this thing gets it's ground # > # > through the case as the coax # > # > cable is attached to the case... which makes # > # > sense, you want that as a shield # > # > for the CB. # > # > # > # > So, to solve your problem, ohm the black lines # > # > to each other if b1 and b2 # > # > are connected then those are the returns for the # > # > speakers... if they # > # > are connected to the case ground directly then # > # > they are just running those # > # > lines for the speaker returns... what the meter # > # > carefully when you go # > # > black to case, reverse the leads when you do... # > # > if you get a difference # > # > switching the leads you do not want to ground # > # > those black lines. :) # > # > # > # > the other way is to bench test it... make sure # > # > you have an antenna connected # > # > although you won't damage the CB output amp # > # > unless you key the mike... # > # > # > # > connect a pair of wires to the speaker, if they # > # > work, see if they work with the black # > # > leads switched... my guess is they will. # > # > # > # > also, you can optimize the speaker sound by # > # > connecting them up so they sound the # > # > best... I think the trick is to put it on an AM # > # > station... then switch the leads # > # > to the speaker until it's the clearest... (I # > # > used to be a tv/radio repair man # > # > way, way, way back... before SuperDawg was # > # > born... late '60s... back when tubes # > # > were tubes and transistors were new fangled # > # > devices...:) # > # > # > # > # > # > the white wire is dash light? # > # > orange power? # > # > # > # > john # > # > # > # > ----- # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps # > # > don't rust, they mold # > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # > # > http:http://creationwiki.org # > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com # > # > http:http://fotomeister.us # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > # > # > # > On Sun, 10 Jan 2010, Michel Balea wrote: # > # > # > # > # I need to wire that pristine radio that I got # > # > # for a steal at the local # > # > yard. # > # > # # > # > # I can figure orange (+) /brown (+) and the # > # > # speakers. The only catch is # > # > that I # > # > # have 2 black wires on the side and was # > # > # wondering which is which Ground # > # > and # > # > # speaker ground? Basically I could ground the # > # > # chassis and disregard one # > # > of the # > # > # black wires (labelled B1 and B2) on the # > # > # following pict: # > # > # # > # > # http://picasaweb.google.com/jeepmr/FSJ#5424903747235616306 # > # > # # > # > # I have the antenna splitter for the CB/radio # > # > # signal. # > # > # # > # > # Thanks for the input. # > # > # # > # > # Michel # > # > # # > # > # # > # _________________________________________________________________ # > # > # Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft^Rs # > # > # powerful SPAM protection. # > # > # http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390706/direct/01/ # > # > # # > # # > # # # http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390710/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:58:06 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: popcorn update I don't know what the HP is, but it goes faster than my Tug did... has good rpm range and top end. I like the way it felt... it felt very much like the Ranger but with a much, much tighter gear box. I may call the guy with an increased offer... :) the rust is of little concern, that it rusted that much here is odd... but I'll hit it with rust stopper and patch the holes with old license plates and bondo... just like I've done with so many old FSJs. :) and yes, the input from the lists has been absolutely splendid and much appreciated. thanx all! john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 11 Jan 2010, Michel Balea wrote: # # # Looks good, you are getting good feedback from the list(s). # # The rust on the toy could be a concern (driver's floor... too much jumping on that pedal to make the truck runs faster) but the engine accessibility is exceptional. How many ponies under that NA engine? # # Michel # # # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: # > Subject: fsj: popcorn update ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3512 **************************