From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Feb 17 16:18:46 2010 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, February 18 2010 Volume 01 : Number 3533 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: fsj: gm Announces B20 Biofuel Capability for New, 2011 Duramax 6.6l Turbo Diesel RE: fsj: gm Announces B20 Biofuel Capability for New, 2011 Duramax 6.6l Turbo Diesel RE: fsj: gm Announces B20 Biofuel Capability for New, 2011 Duramax 6.6l Turbo Diesel RE: fsj: gm Announces B20 Biofuel Capability for New, 2011 Duramax 6.6l Turbo Diesel Re: [db] RE: fsj: gm Announces B20 Biofuel Capability for New, 2011 Duramax 6.6l Turbo Diesel RE: fsj: gm Announces B20 Biofuel Capability for New, 2011 Duramax 6.6l Turbo Diesel Re: [db] RE: fsj: gm Announces B20 Biofuel Capability for New, 2011 Duramax 6.6l Turbo Diesel FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:48:20 +0000 From: Michel Balea Subject: RE: fsj: gm Announces B20 Biofuel Capability for New, 2011 Duramax 6.6l Turbo Diesel This is what happened in France. Diesel was 30% cheaper.... so everybody has been buying diesel for the last 30 years.... but 2 years ago diesel was more expensive, canceling the gap that favor the purchase. My friend sold his diesel and bought a gasser. Michel > From: carnuck > They always try to shoot for running the lowest cost pump fuel. In a few years > straight diesel will become the "premium" of fuel. Gov't regulations require > them to certify for B20. > > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft^Rs powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:22:19 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: gm Announces B20 Biofuel Capability for New, 2011 Duramax 6.6l Turbo Diesel yeah, but a Diesel will still get WAY better mileage than most gassers... people can't do the math... take for instance a '91 Mercedes... a friend has a 300E, I've got a 300D. His 300E gets 16-18 mpg in town my 300D gets 30 mpg in town. sure, he pays less at the pump PER gallon... but any clod with a calculator can quickly figure out that the Diesel is a better deal. same thing is true with just about any other comparison of like vehicles... Diesel is vastly more efficient, longer lived and more economical on oh so many levels... even with a big truck, you're better off... say an F250... a gas rig will get what, 12 mpg if you're lucky? and 16 mpg with the Diesel. That's 4 mpg difference or 25% better efficiency... what's the delta on the fuel costs? about 14%, that means you're still ahead... and more so if you drive more. And with a Diesel you never had to mess with spark plugs... ;) I've run the math several times... Diesel always wins. Hands down if you consider WVO and BioDiesel... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 17 Feb 2010, Michel Balea wrote: # This is what happened in France. Diesel was 30% cheaper.... so everybody has # been buying diesel for the last 30 years.... but 2 years ago diesel was more # expensive, canceling the gap that favor the purchase. My friend sold his # diesel and bought a gasser. # # Michel # # > From: carnuck # > They always try to shoot for running the lowest cost pump fuel. In a few # years # > straight diesel will become the "premium" of fuel. Gov't regulations # require # > them to certify for B20. # > # > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # # _________________________________________________________________ # Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft^Rs powerful SPAM protection. # http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:02:36 +0000 From: Michel Balea Subject: RE: fsj: gm Announces B20 Biofuel Capability for New, 2011 Duramax 6.6l Turbo Diesel But this is for fuel cost, diesel has a little extra maintenance and a little extra cost at initial purchase, so you need to be driving a little more per year to amortize the expenses, it used to be 20Kmiles a year or so. This is for a new purchase which is the worst move that one can make. John was is cost per mile since ownership on the benz, fuel, then fuel and service/parts.... Labor is hard to compute as we do most of the work. But sure some stink... when a truck passes you while you are on a bicycle. The public buses are better, it smells like fresh fries... you mean freedom fries..... What about an additive, rose for the morning commute and fries for the evening rush hour... may be not, people will drive home like maniacs. Michel > Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:22:19 -0800 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: mbalea-at-hotmail.com > CC: carnuck-at-hotmail.com; diesel-benz-at-digest.net; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: fsj: gm Announces B20 Biofuel Capability for New, 2011 Duramax 6.6l Turbo Diesel > > yeah, but a Diesel will still get WAY better mileage than most gassers... > > people can't do the math... > > take for instance a '91 Mercedes... a friend has a 300E, > I've got a 300D. > > His 300E gets 16-18 mpg in town > my 300D gets 30 mpg in town. > > sure, he pays less at the pump PER gallon... but any clod with a calculator can > quickly figure out that the Diesel is a better deal. > > same thing is true with just about any other comparison of like vehicles... > > Diesel is vastly more efficient, longer lived and more economical on oh so many levels... > > even with a big truck, you're better off... say an F250... a gas rig will get > what, 12 mpg if you're lucky? and 16 mpg with the Diesel. That's 4 mpg difference > or 25% better efficiency... what's the delta on the fuel costs? about 14%, that > means you're still ahead... and more so if you drive more. > > And with a Diesel you never had to mess with spark plugs... ;) > > I've run the math several times... Diesel always wins. Hands down if you > consider WVO and BioDiesel... > > john > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Wed, 17 Feb 2010, Michel Balea wrote: > > # This is what happened in France. Diesel was 30% cheaper.... so everybody has > # been buying diesel for the last 30 years.... but 2 years ago diesel was more > # expensive, canceling the gap that favor the purchase. My friend sold his > # diesel and bought a gasser. > # > # Michel > # > # > From: carnuck > # > They always try to shoot for running the lowest cost pump fuel. In a few > # years > # > straight diesel will become the "premium" of fuel. Gov't regulations > # require > # > them to certify for B20. > # > > # > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > # > # > # _________________________________________________________________ > # Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft^Rs powerful SPAM protection. > # http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ > # _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft^Rs powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:37:55 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: gm Announces B20 Biofuel Capability for New, 2011 Duramax 6.6l Turbo Diesel the maintenance is less... MUCH less... initial cost is something the new purchaser pays. ;) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 17 Feb 2010, Michel Balea wrote: # But this is for fuel cost, diesel has a little extra maintenance and a little # extra cost at initial purchase, so you need to be driving a little more per # year to amortize the expenses, it used to be 20Kmiles a year or so. This is # for a new purchase which is the worst move that one can make. # # John was is cost per mile since ownership on the benz, fuel, then fuel and # service/parts.... Labor is hard to compute as we do most of the work. # # But sure some stink... when a truck passes you while you are on a bicycle. The # public buses are better, it smells like fresh fries... you mean freedom # fries..... # # What about an additive, rose for the morning commute and fries for the evening # rush hour... may be not, people will drive home like maniacs. # # Michel # # > Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:22:19 -0800 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: mbalea-at-hotmail.com # > CC: carnuck-at-hotmail.com; diesel-benz-at-digest.net; fsj-at-digest.net # > Subject: RE: fsj: gm Announces B20 Biofuel Capability for New, 2011 Duramax # 6.6l Turbo Diesel # > # > yeah, but a Diesel will still get WAY better mileage than most gassers... # > # > people can't do the math... # > # > take for instance a '91 Mercedes... a friend has a 300E, # > I've got a 300D. # > # > His 300E gets 16-18 mpg in town # > my 300D gets 30 mpg in town. # > # > sure, he pays less at the pump PER gallon... but any clod with a calculator # can # > quickly figure out that the Diesel is a better deal. # > # > same thing is true with just about any other comparison of like vehicles... # > # > Diesel is vastly more efficient, longer lived and more economical on oh so # many levels... # > # > even with a big truck, you're better off... say an F250... a gas rig will # get # > what, 12 mpg if you're lucky? and 16 mpg with the Diesel. That's 4 mpg # difference # > or 25% better efficiency... what's the delta on the fuel costs? about 14%, # that # > means you're still ahead... and more so if you drive more. # > # > And with a Diesel you never had to mess with spark plugs... ;) # > # > I've run the math several times... Diesel always wins. Hands down if you # > consider WVO and BioDiesel... # > # > john # > # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Wed, 17 Feb 2010, Michel Balea wrote: # > # > # This is what happened in France. Diesel was 30% cheaper.... so everybody # has # > # been buying diesel for the last 30 years.... but 2 years ago diesel was # more # > # expensive, canceling the gap that favor the purchase. My friend sold his # > # diesel and bought a gasser. # > # # > # Michel # > # # > # > From: carnuck # > # > They always try to shoot for running the lowest cost pump fuel. In a # few # > # years # > # > straight diesel will become the "premium" of fuel. Gov't regulations # > # require # > # > them to certify for B20. # > # > # > # > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # > # # > # # > # _________________________________________________________________ # > # Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft^Rs powerful SPAM protection. # > # http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ # > # # # _________________________________________________________________ # Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft^Rs powerful SPAM protection. # http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:39:05 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] RE: fsj: gm Announces B20 Biofuel Capability for New, 2011 Duramax 6.6l Turbo Diesel wow. best price on Diesel is $2.89 best price gas around $2.79 Normal price on Diesel is $3.09 / gas 2.79 or thereabouts... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 17 Feb 2010, Jim Hoffman wrote: # Around here diesel is 7-10% more than regular. # # "Most" stations I pass on my way to work have regular at $2.509 # and diesel at $2.709. # # Jim # # --- On Wed, 2/17/10, john wrote: # # > From: john # > Subject: [db] RE: fsj: gm Announces B20 Biofuel Capability for New, 2011 Duramax 6.6l Turbo Diesel # > To: "Michel Balea" # > Cc: "Jim Blair" , "diesel-benz list" , "fsj digest" # > Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010, 12:22 PM # > yeah, but a Diesel will still get WAY # > better mileage than most gassers... # > # > people can't do the math... # > # > take for instance a '91 Mercedes... a friend has a 300E, # > I've got a 300D. # > # > His 300E gets 16-18 mpg in town # > my 300D gets 30 mpg in town. # > # > sure, he pays less at the pump PER gallon... but any clod # > with a calculator can # > quickly figure out that the Diesel is a better deal. # > # > same thing is true with just about any other comparison of # > like vehicles... # > # > Diesel is vastly more efficient, longer lived and more # > economical on oh so many levels... # > # > even with a big truck, you're better off... say an F250... # > a gas rig will get # > what, 12 mpg if you're lucky? and 16 mpg with the # > Diesel. That's 4 mpg difference # > or 25% better efficiency... what's the delta on the fuel # > costs? about 14%, that # > means you're still ahead... and more so if you drive more. # > # > And with a Diesel you never had to mess with spark plugs... # > ;) # > # > I've run the math several times... Diesel always # > wins. Hands down if you # > consider WVO and BioDiesel... # > # > john # > # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where # > Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # > si vis pacem, para bellum # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Wed, 17 Feb 2010, Michel Balea wrote: # > # > # This is what happened in France. Diesel was 30% # > cheaper.... so everybody has # > # been buying diesel for the last 30 years.... but 2 years # > ago diesel was more # > # expensive, canceling the gap that favor the purchase. My # > friend sold his # > # diesel and bought a gasser. # > # # > # Michel # > # # > # > From: carnuck # > # > They always try to shoot for running the lowest # > cost pump fuel. In a few # > # years # > # > straight diesel will become the "premium" of fuel. # > Gov't regulations # > # require # > # > them to certify for B20. # > # > # > # > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, # > '84 Jeep J10 # > # # > # # > # # > _________________________________________________________________ # > # Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsofts powerful SPAM # > protection. # > # http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ # > # # > # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:10:51 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: gm Announces B20 Biofuel Capability for New, 2011 Duramax 6.6l Turbo Diesel But you are comparing apples and oranges. The EFI system Mercedes uses in the gassers wasn't meant to be fuel efficient. It's pretty sad that an SUV gets better mpg than a car. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 - ---------------------------------------- > Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:22:19 -0800 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: mbalea-at-hotmail.com > CC: carnuck-at-hotmail.com; diesel-benz-at-digest.net; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: fsj: gm Announces B20 Biofuel Capability for New, 2011 Duramax 6.6l Turbo Diesel > > yeah, but a Diesel will still get WAY better mileage than most gassers... > > people can't do the math... > > take for instance a '91 Mercedes... a friend has a 300E, > I've got a 300D. > > His 300E gets 16-18 mpg in town > my 300D gets 30 mpg in town. > > sure, he pays less at the pump PER gallon... but any clod with a calculator can > quickly figure out that the Diesel is a better deal. > > same thing is true with just about any other comparison of like vehicles... > > Diesel is vastly more efficient, longer lived and more economical on oh so many levels... > > even with a big truck, you're better off... say an F250... a gas rig will get > what, 12 mpg if you're lucky? and 16 mpg with the Diesel. That's 4 mpg difference > or 25% better efficiency... what's the delta on the fuel costs? about 14%, that > means you're still ahead... and more so if you drive more. > > And with a Diesel you never had to mess with spark plugs... ;) > > I've run the math several times... Diesel always wins. Hands down if you > consider WVO and BioDiesel... > > john > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Wed, 17 Feb 2010, Michel Balea wrote: > > # This is what happened in France. Diesel was 30% cheaper.... so everybody has > # been buying diesel for the last 30 years.... but 2 years ago diesel was more > # expensive, canceling the gap that favor the purchase. My friend sold his > # diesel and bought a gasser. > # > # Michel > # > #> From: carnuck > #> They always try to shoot for running the lowest cost pump fuel. In a few > # years > #> straight diesel will become the "premium" of fuel. Gov't regulations > # require > #> them to certify for B20. > #> > #> Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > # > # > # _________________________________________________________________ > # Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft^Rs powerful SPAM protection. > # http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ > # _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:18:02 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] RE: fsj: gm Announces B20 Biofuel Capability for New, 2011 Duramax 6.6l Turbo Diesel it's the leftist regime in olympia... they've added about 50 cents worth of state tax to the Diesel fuel... ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 17 Feb 2010, Edward Pomeroy wrote: # Geez - you folks are getting hosed, diesel is down to 2.669 in NW Indiana and # i expect it to go lower as the heating season winds down. # # John wrote: # > wow. best price on Diesel is $2.89 best price gas around $2.79 # > # > Normal price on Diesel is $3.09 / gas 2.79 or thereabouts... # > # > john # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Wed, 17 Feb 2010, Jim Hoffman wrote: # > # > # Around here diesel is 7-10% more than regular. # > # # > # "Most" stations I pass on my way to work have regular at $2.509 # > # and diesel at $2.709. # > # # > # Jim # > # # > # --- On Wed, 2/17/10, john wrote: # > # # > # > From: john # > # > Subject: [db] RE: fsj: gm Announces B20 Biofuel Capability for New, # > # > 2011 # > Duramax 6.6l Turbo Diesel # > # > To: "Michel Balea" # > # > Cc: "Jim Blair" , "diesel-benz list" # > , "fsj digest" # > # > Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010, 12:22 PM # > # > yeah, but a Diesel will still get WAY # > # > better mileage than most gassers... # > # > # > # > people can't do the math... # > # > # > # > take for instance a '91 Mercedes... a friend has a 300E, # > # > I've got a 300D. # > # > # > # > His 300E gets 16-18 mpg in town # > # > my 300D gets 30 mpg in town. # > # > # > # > sure, he pays less at the pump PER gallon... but any clod # > # > with a calculator can # > # > quickly figure out that the Diesel is a better deal. # > # > # > # > same thing is true with just about any other comparison of # > # > like vehicles... # > # > # > # > Diesel is vastly more efficient, longer lived and more # > # > economical on oh so many levels... # > # > # > # > even with a big truck, you're better off... say an F250... # > # > a gas rig will get # > # > what, 12 mpg if you're lucky? and 16 mpg with the # > # > Diesel. That's 4 mpg difference # > # > or 25% better efficiency... what's the delta on the fuel # > # > costs? about 14%, that # > # > means you're still ahead... and more so if you drive more. # > # > # > # > And with a Diesel you never had to mess with spark plugs... # > # > ;) # > # > # > # > I've run the math several times... Diesel always # > # > wins. Hands down if you # > # > consider WVO and BioDiesel... # > # > # > # > john # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > ----- # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where # > # > Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum # > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > # > # > # > On Wed, 17 Feb 2010, Michel Balea wrote: # > # > # > # > # This is what happened in France. Diesel was 30% # > # > cheaper.... so everybody has # > # > # been buying diesel for the last 30 years.... but 2 years # > # > ago diesel was more # > # > # expensive, canceling the gap that favor the purchase. My # > # > friend sold his # > # > # diesel and bought a gasser. # > # > # # > # > # Michel # > # > # # > # > # > From: carnuck # > # > # > They always try to shoot for running the lowest # > # > cost pump fuel. In a few # > # > # years # > # > # > straight diesel will become the "premium" of fuel. # > # > Gov't regulations # > # > # require # > # > # > them to certify for B20. # > # > # > # > # > # > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, # > # > '84 Jeep J10 # > # > # # > # > # # > # > # # > # > _________________________________________________________________ # > # > # Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsofts powerful SPAM # > # > protection. # > # > # http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ # > # > # # > # > # > # # > # > # ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3533 **************************