From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Mar 16 12:30:00 2010 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, March 16 2010 Volume 01 : Number 3550 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: fsj: Fwd: Re: Restatement of Quadra Trac Question and Ouray Question (fwd) RE: fsj: Fwd: Re: Restatement of Quadra Trac Question and Ouray Question (fwd) fsj: Hey, it's running!!! fsj: Re: Jeep Grand Wagoneer GM Diesel Swap FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:38:27 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Fwd: Re: Restatement of Quadra Trac Question and Ouray Question (fwd) From: john Subject: fsj: Fwd: Re: Restatement of Quadra Trac Question and Ouray Question (fwd) remember, the fsj list is setup so we can see and reply directly to the sender, so you need to reply all... the xj list only goes to the list... same list mom, different setup... :) not sure why they are different, but it works... john Says the guy who set it up that way so long ago he forgot how! ;^) _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL :en-US:WM_HMP:032010_2 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 11:00:43 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: Fwd: Re: Restatement of Quadra Trac Question and Ouray Question (fwd) yep. :)` ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 15 Mar 2010, Jim Blair wrote: # From: john # Subject: fsj: Fwd: Re: Restatement of Quadra Trac Question and Ouray Question # (fwd) # # remember, the fsj list is setup so we can see and reply directly to # the sender, so you need to reply all... the xj list only goes to the list... # same list mom, different setup... :) not sure why they are different, but it # works... # john # # Says the guy who set it up that way so long ago he forgot how! ;^) # # _________________________________________________________________ # Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your # inbox. # http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL # :en-US:WM_HMP:032010_2 # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:18:36 -0500 From: Kim Tesar Subject: fsj: Hey, it's running!!! Watch out, the blue beast is awake. I put a jumper between the small solenoid terminal near the battery cable post, and the - side of the coil. Then the green wire to the + side of the coil, believe that is coming from the ignition module. Light blue to the small post on the starter side of the solenoid, and the red / tr to the - side of the coil. A shot of gas down the carb, and it fired right up. Oil pressure came up quickly without priming. Warmed it up, engaged first and then reverse. I saw what looked like leaks at the exhaust manifold to head gasket, so tightened up the exhaust manifold. Charging system is working, running lights are working, turn signals working. Brakes feel good since I replaced the line on the back. Test drive tomorrow! - - Landon ///////////// On Mar 14, 2010, at 8:56 PM, Kim Tesar wrote: > Thanks, all. > > So from the diagram, I see that the violet is for the oil sender, > (PO replaced with mechanical) > so that doesn't work the solenoid. > > Running a jumper cable from the battery terminal to the starter > side of the solenoid on the firewall turns the engine nicely (good > job on that flywheel ring) > > I've got the light blue that goes to the solenoid, and that gets 12 > volts at start...Will put that on the starter side. > > I don't know what to run to the small post near the battery > terminal on the solenoid. From the shop manual (thanks, John) it > looks like it should tie into the + side of the coil, with the red/ > tr wire. > > Sending 12V to that terminal does not click the solenoid. Any > suggestions? Thanks. > > - Landon > /////// > > On Mar 14, 2010, at 7:33 PM, Jim Blair wrote: > >> Small red wire goes to battery (along with the big red but not >> together until >> close to the bat or voltage drop occurs). Other wire (sometimes >> white, >> sometimes blue) goes to switched power with a 10 ohm resistor in >> line (I use a >> 194 light bulb in home wired applications, but they glow without a >> resistor in >> the line) >> The other option is a 1 wire GM alt and run a lead straight to >> the battery >> + from it. The ammeter is a source of wiring problems (& fires) >> when corroded >> so I replace them with voltmeters. >> >>> To: fsj-at-digest.net >>> From: ltesar3421-at-sbcglobal.net >>> Subject: fsj: 79 J10 Alternator wiring >>> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 14:23:49 -0500 >>> >>> Hi, this should be quick for those of you who've done this 20 times. >>> >>> The alternator has the basic two wire space connector, the big >>> battery terminal and wire, and one more red wire that leads to the >>> ignition switch, maybe to run the accessories? >>> >>> Should this last smaller wire connect also to the big battery >>> terminal on the alternator, or there is a smaller stud, not >>> insulated, for this one? I don't want to fry the alternator or >>> start >>> a Jeep b q. >>> >>> Thanks, Landon >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more >> from your >> inbox. >> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy? >> ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL >> :en-US:WM_HMP:032010_2 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 12:29:16 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Jeep Grand Wagoneer GM Diesel Swap Josh, I would recommend the 6.2. I've tried both. The 6.2 seems to get better mileage. The 6.5 has more power, more options for aftermarket improvements, more computer control... but you lose something of the simplicity of a Diesel through that process. The Banks Turbo for the 6.2 is supposed to be quite good. However, I was happy with the NA 6.2 in my '91 GW. Economy in town was only about 16 mpg... which is about what I got with my 6.5 in a '94 blazer... my '83 GMC Jimmy with the 6.2 would get 18-19 mpg. The 6.5 never broke 20mpg on the freeway... I was very surprised to get 24 mpg out of my 6.2 in th e'91 GW. The key issues to setting up a 6.2 in a GW are the motor mounts and sound proofing. If you can keep the vibrations from the frame by good mounts you'll be much happier. I found that the novak adapter mounts did not have enough vibration isolation, they were mechanically quite good and if you installed larger rubber donuts they might be fine. The stock GM mounts are much better but require some engineering to make work. We opted for bolt in and I'm sorry I did now. I had this crazy idea of being able to revert back, one never reverts back... this is a one way process... you either love it or lose it... the pain and suffering associated with a swap of any kind is not something one revisits on the same project. :) (as you've noted likely from: http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html ) While you have the engine out put sound absorbing material on the firewall, dynamat, torch down material... whatever... you might want to apply anything remotely flammable on the inside under the carpet. Isolation, vibration reduction, sound proofing... will all be valued greatly. The exhaust setup will require some creativity. Same with the batteries. Running stout cables, gel cells and marine boxes in the back of the GW will work, especially if you're in an area with safety inspections or road salt, or if you plan to wheel. I put one battery in the stock location and the other under the frame. If I were to do another GW I'd put the second battery in the back connected by a heavy cable and provide a quick connect in the back for winch/lift/jump starts and accessories... use a garden hose to protect the line and run it along the frame and up into the back. I would consider the advance adapter conversion for the 700R4 as opposed to the idea that novak had of changing the input shaft to the transfer case... but thinking about it it's six to one, half dozen to the other, go with the most affordable.... You could also use a GM xfr case and get a '79 or earlier front axle with the passenger side drop... or maybe a later model GM case that drops on the driver side... there's a number of options in this realm and they will all cost money... :) Have the 700R4 beefed up with bigger sprags and a shift kit, add an external cooler and use amsoil synthetic ATF. I wouldn't use a TH400 because you wouldn't have overdrive. If you can find a manual trans for this setup that would help economy, especially if it had an overdrive in it... can't think of anything to use though... When it's all in, you'll barely clear the stock fuel tank. :) remember that if you have to swap the xfr case... which is why I didn't like the novak setup... but that's another story... would advise against using the NP228 or NP229... an NP219 (Quadratrac) would be ok, but an NP208 would be simpler... The GM xfr cases are all slip yoke and likely inferior to a Jeep xfr case, but I have no data on that, just opinion. ;) On the 6.2 I would consider eliminating the lift pump and covering the block opening... they are a pain and if you run bioDiesel you will cause the input line to dissolve... if you have rubber line, replace it with Viton tubing. Setup a 10 micron fuel filter on the firewall where it's easily accessible... I'd run a coarser fuel filter before your electric pump. I found that 4.10 gears worked well with the 700r4. Think I was running 31x10.5s with a couple of inches of lift... and I used a 3" body lift kit which is a good idea... will give you lots of room to run plumbing for fuel filters and and electric pump to eliminate the lift pump. I'm putting an SD33T into my '83 J10 stepside, not nearly the power of a 6.2 but I should see 20mpg in town with 3.54 gears and 24 on the freeway... well, that's what the 80 scouts did with the same tire size and apx weight (235/75 r15). I had an '86 cj-10a (flight line tug) that had the SD33. Was able to get the passenger side engine mount to use in my J10 so this will be almost like installing a 4.2 back into my J10. I can hardly wait to get mine back on the road... The extra HP/torque of the SD33T over the SD33, and the lighter weight, should make my J10 a great daily driver. I'm using a 1981 Rabbit Diesel Pickup right now... talk about noisy... and basic... it came with a/c but some clod cut the evaporator out from under the dash, trying to find the parts so I have a/c, need it for my allergies... hoping that my J10 will be finished soon... the Caddy is doing pretty well, amazing how it can get up even my gravel hill with a load... been using it for garden duty. Not sure on the mileage, at least 38 mpg, should be closer to 45 mpg. http://johnmeister.com/DIESELS/1981-VW-Diesel-Pickup/2010-Mar-06-caddy-stripes/ALL.html Recommend that you get on the FSJ list, we'll want to see pictures of your adventure. A friend of mine is putting a 6.2 into his '56 Willys panel. http://wagoneers.com/Willys/Dave-56-Willys-Panel/ for the 6.2 in the GW see: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Axles-Driveline/axle-ratio-info.txt http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/Omega/ http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/6.2L-FSJ/ see: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/ see: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/ - list info john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 16 Mar 2010, Joshua Almeida wrote: # Hello, # My name is Josh and I own a 1988 Grand Wagoneer that I am planning to do a # GM diesel swap into. I am having a hard time deciding between the 6.2 and # 6.5, and deciding whether or not to add a turbo. I noticed that you had a # 6.2 diesel for a while (not sure if it was turbo) and was wondering how your # experience was with it. How was the fuel efficiency (my ultimate goal) how # did it preform? did the 6.2 have enough power for the mass of the Grand # Wagoneer body. # # I hope this email gets to you and thank you for your time. I was thoroughly # impressed with your vehicle collection and past ownerships, some good cars # passed through you. # # Thank you, # Josh ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3550 **************************