From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Mar 17 14:45:13 2010 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, March 17 2010 Volume 01 : Number 3551 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Re: Jeep Grand Wagoneer GM Diesel Swap fsj: Jeep Wrangler Islander contest FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 12:38:22 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Jeep Grand Wagoneer GM Diesel Swap If I was doing it, I'd probably just snag the entire GM driveline and get a 74-79 front axle. Blazer or other half ton should have a 208, which will give you a better low than the 205 that came in the bigger stuff, and unless you're wheeling HARD and heavy on the throttle, I doubt it's worth going to the bombproof 205. You are probably going to have to recut drivelines anyway and reroute exhaust anyway, why add the cost of adapters in the driveline? If you were going manual, it was an option behind the 6.2 and 6.5 - an NV4500 five speed. There were earlier four speeds, but I'd spend the extra and get the five speed and be done with it. The 4500 will most likely have an NV241 hanging off the back if it came from an IFS truck, and will be driver's drop not requiring the axle swap. That goes for getting a 4x4 6.2 truck with an automatic. Anything post 93 is going to require some sort of computer control, and to be honest, a non turbo 6.2 moves around a 6000 lb 4x4 crew cab dually with a TH400 decently enough that it's what I usually drive when I'm not headed down the hill. The 74 cherokee with the 258 has a broken front leaf, so it's not really in the rotation right now... If you do anything with a turbo, the investment in a pyrometer is probably wise - the literature I have suggests the 6.2 isn't rated for higher than 900 degrees sustained. John's right, you don't want to do the swap twice :) On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 12:29:16PM -0700, john wrote: > Josh, > > I would recommend the 6.2. I've tried both. The 6.2 seems to get better > mileage. The 6.5 has more power, more options for aftermarket improvements, > more computer control... but you lose something of the simplicity of a Diesel > through that process. The Banks Turbo for the 6.2 is supposed to be quite > good. However, I was happy with the NA 6.2 in my '91 GW. > > Economy in town was only about 16 mpg... which is about what I got with > my 6.5 in a '94 blazer... my '83 GMC Jimmy with the 6.2 would get 18-19 mpg. > The 6.5 never broke 20mpg on the freeway... I was very surprised to get 24 mpg > out of my 6.2 in th e'91 GW. > > The key issues to setting up a 6.2 in a GW are the motor mounts and sound proofing. > If you can keep the vibrations from the frame by good mounts you'll be much happier. > > I found that the novak adapter mounts did not have enough vibration isolation, they > were mechanically quite good and if you installed larger rubber donuts they might be fine. > The stock GM mounts are much better but require some engineering to make work. We opted > for bolt in and I'm sorry I did now. I had this crazy idea of being able to revert > back, one never reverts back... this is a one way process... you either love it or > lose it... the pain and suffering associated with a swap of any kind is not something > one revisits on the same project. :) (as you've noted likely from: > http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html ) > > While you have the engine out put sound absorbing material on the firewall, dynamat, > torch down material... whatever... you might want to apply anything remotely flammable > on the inside under the carpet. Isolation, vibration reduction, sound proofing... will > all be valued greatly. > > The exhaust setup will require some creativity. Same with the batteries. Running > stout cables, gel cells and marine boxes in the back of the GW will work, especially > if you're in an area with safety inspections or road salt, or if you plan to wheel. > I put one battery in the stock location and the other under the frame. If I were to > do another GW I'd put the second battery in the back connected by a heavy cable and > provide a quick connect in the back for winch/lift/jump starts and accessories... use > a garden hose to protect the line and run it along the frame and up into the back. > > I would consider the advance adapter conversion for the 700R4 as opposed > to the idea that novak had of changing the input shaft to the transfer > case... but thinking about it it's six to one, half dozen to the other, go > with the most affordable.... > > You could also use a GM xfr case and get a '79 or earlier front axle with the passenger > side drop... or maybe a later model GM case that drops on the driver side... there's > a number of options in this realm and they will all cost money... :) > > Have the 700R4 beefed up with bigger sprags and a shift kit, add an external cooler and > use amsoil synthetic ATF. I wouldn't use a TH400 because you wouldn't have overdrive. > If you can find a manual trans for this setup that would help economy, especially if it > had an overdrive in it... can't think of anything to use though... > > When it's all in, you'll barely clear the stock fuel tank. :) remember that if you have > to swap the xfr case... which is why I didn't like the novak setup... but that's another > story... would advise against using the NP228 or NP229... an NP219 (Quadratrac) would be > ok, but an NP208 would be simpler... The GM xfr cases are all slip yoke and likely > inferior to a Jeep xfr case, but I have no data on that, just opinion. ;) > > On the 6.2 I would consider eliminating the lift pump and covering the block > opening... they are a pain and if you run bioDiesel you will cause the input > line to dissolve... if you have rubber line, replace it with Viton tubing. Setup > a 10 micron fuel filter on the firewall where it's easily accessible... I'd run > a coarser fuel filter before your electric pump. > > I found that 4.10 gears worked well with the 700r4. Think I was running 31x10.5s > with a couple of inches of lift... and I used a 3" body lift kit which is > a good idea... will give you lots of room to run plumbing for fuel filters and > and electric pump to eliminate the lift pump. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 16:41:27 -0500 From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: Jeep Wrangler Islander contest In case you guys haven't seen this yet... http://jeep.com/en/2010/wrangler/islander/ Two days left -- one question and winner per day. ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3551 **************************