From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Apr 1 20:39:16 2010 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, April 2 2010 Volume 01 : Number 3556 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: fsj: stupid question of the day Re: fsj: stupid question of the day Re: fsj: stupid question of the day fsj: Re: M-715 concept Re: fsj: stupid question of the day FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 17:28:16 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: stupid question of the day diesel isn't bad... not as bad as atf or gear lube, it evaporates... same with biodiesel... but not atf or gear lube... it doesn't. ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 1 Apr 2010, Jim Blair wrote: # Gear oil or diesel is worse! # # > From: mbalea-at-hotmail.com # > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com; fsj-at-digest.net # > Subject: RE: fsj: stupid question of the day # > Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 20:35:11 +0000 # > # > ATF is so thin, that it will find it way on your driveway. A few years # back, # > someone suggested to buy a large carbage can and secure the can and the # trany # > in it to do off bench work. # > The people who do the trany overhaul in the burbs, have a metal bench # slightly # > inclined away from them with edges to channel the ATF toward the back side # of # > the bench, it is also in open air, so the guys don't get exposure to too # much # > solvent. # > # > Good luck and get some of those disposable gloves, I strongly dislike the # > smell of ATF with my food. # > # > Michel # > 74 wag # > # > > From: carnuck-at-hotmail.com # > > To: fsj-at-digest.net # > > Subject: RE: fsj: stupid question of the day # > > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 23:03:08 -0700 # > > # > > I use a siphon through the hole for the dip stick tube to empty it. If # > there # > > is crud in the pan and you flip it, that junk will get stuck in the # gears, # > etc # > > and have a high likelihood of creating damage. # > > # > > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # > > # > > # > > # > > # > > > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:57:51 -0700 # > > > From: joe-at-j-hughes.com # > > > To: fsj-at-digest.net # > > > Subject: Re: fsj: stupid question of the day # > > > # > > > I would think the fluid would drain out of the vent on the topside of # > > > the case. Once the VB is out most of the work is on the VB itself. I # > > > don't think you could get away without draining what's left without # > > > making a big mess. # > > > # > > > Just make sure you put a pan on it with drain plug, before you put it # on. # > > > # > > > Joe H. # > > > Everett, WA # > > > # > > > On 3/31/2010 8:47 PM, JeepNut wrote: # > > >> I'm going to pull and replace a tranny in the Waggie. # > > >> The "new" used one should be dropped off early next week. # > > >> I'm planning to put a TransGo TF2 kit in the replacement tranny. # > > >> # > > >> Question is.... # > > >> Is it possible to just flip the new one over and pull the pan, do the # > > shift # > > >> kit, etc without dumping all the tranny fluid out of it? After # pulling # > > the # > > >> pan, I could siphon some out, if need be to install the shift kit. # > > >> Finding some kind of plug for the dipstick socket might be the biggest # > > problem # > > >> with rolling it upside down. # > > >> # > > >> Just seems to me that sitting in is normal position, it wouldn't be # > filled # > > >> with fluid all the way to the very top of the housing right? So # > flipping # > > it # > > >> over would put the air in the pan and allow a clean disassembly. # > > >> Instead of having to block the tranny up on something, drop the pan, # > > gushing # > > >> fluid, etc. and working under it to get the v/b out for mods. # > > >> # > > >> That has always seemed so ignorant to me. I will never understand why # > > drain # > > >> ports are not commonly # > > >> provided for trannys. # > > >> # > > >> I don't have a "workbench" so this shift kit install has got to be # done # > > >> either upside down on the carport deck, rightside up blocked up off # the # > > deck # > > >> so I can work underneath it, or with the tranny back in the truck. # > > >> # > > >> JeepNut # > > >> # > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------- # > > >> # > > >> '92 Cherokee Laredo, bought new, an heirloom. Passed to one of # > > >> # > > >> the grandkids in 2009 -at- 270K miles.... # > > >> # > > >> '04 Grand Cherokee Laredo. Bone stock. It's hers. # > > >> # > > >> '87 Street Comanche #24/100. In storage. # > > >> # > > >> '88 Grand Wagoneer # > > >> # > > >> - '81 AMC 360 -.030 over- Edelbrock Performer/1400 600cfm 4bbl, # > > >> # > > >> TFI System upgrade, TF727 -mild kit- NP229, D44's F/R -3:31- # > > >> # > > >> B.J.'s Offroad 6" kit/ drop pittman, stainless extended brake lines, # > > >> # > > >> ProComp 3000 shocks, Maxxis Buckshot 33x12.5x15 # > > >> # > > >> 14 Spoke OEM Wagonwheels, IPF 65/55 lamps...and then some. # > > >> # > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------- # > > >> # > > >> Registered Linux user #287453 # > > # > > _________________________________________________________________ # > > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. # > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850553/direct/01/ # > # > _________________________________________________________________ # > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. # > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850553/direct/01/ # # _________________________________________________________________ # The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. # http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL # :en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3 # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 21:17:53 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: Re: fsj: stupid question of the day sffsfsfsSFSFSFSFFFFF-hah..... love the smell of 80-weight in the morning. Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Blair" To: "Michel Balea" ; "fsj digest" Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 8:00 PM Subject: RE: fsj: stupid question of the day > Gear oil or diesel is worse! > >> From: mbalea-at-hotmail.com >> To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com; fsj-at-digest.net >> Subject: RE: fsj: stupid question of the day >> Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 20:35:11 +0000 >> >> ATF is so thin, that it will find it way on your driveway. A few years > back, >> someone suggested to buy a large carbage can and secure the can and the > trany >> in it to do off bench work. >> The people who do the trany overhaul in the burbs, have a metal bench > slightly >> inclined away from them with edges to channel the ATF toward the back >> side > of >> the bench, it is also in open air, so the guys don't get exposure to too > much >> solvent. >> >> Good luck and get some of those disposable gloves, I strongly dislike the >> smell of ATF with my food. >> >> Michel >> 74 wag >> >> > From: carnuck-at-hotmail.com >> > To: fsj-at-digest.net >> > Subject: RE: fsj: stupid question of the day >> > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 23:03:08 -0700 >> > >> > I use a siphon through the hole for the dip stick tube to empty it. If >> there >> > is crud in the pan and you flip it, that junk will get stuck in the > gears, >> etc >> > and have a high likelihood of creating damage. >> > >> > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:57:51 -0700 >> > > From: joe-at-j-hughes.com >> > > To: fsj-at-digest.net >> > > Subject: Re: fsj: stupid question of the day >> > > >> > > I would think the fluid would drain out of the vent on the topside of >> > > the case. Once the VB is out most of the work is on the VB itself. >> > > I >> > > don't think you could get away without draining what's left without >> > > making a big mess. >> > > >> > > Just make sure you put a pan on it with drain plug, before you put it > on. >> > > >> > > Joe H. >> > > Everett, WA >> > > >> > > On 3/31/2010 8:47 PM, JeepNut wrote: >> > >> I'm going to pull and replace a tranny in the Waggie. >> > >> The "new" used one should be dropped off early next week. >> > >> I'm planning to put a TransGo TF2 kit in the replacement tranny. >> > >> >> > >> Question is.... >> > >> Is it possible to just flip the new one over and pull the pan, do >> > >> the >> > shift >> > >> kit, etc without dumping all the tranny fluid out of it? After > pulling >> > the >> > >> pan, I could siphon some out, if need be to install the shift kit. >> > >> Finding some kind of plug for the dipstick socket might be the >> > >> biggest >> > problem >> > >> with rolling it upside down. >> > >> >> > >> Just seems to me that sitting in is normal position, it wouldn't be >> filled >> > >> with fluid all the way to the very top of the housing right? So >> flipping >> > it >> > >> over would put the air in the pan and allow a clean disassembly. >> > >> Instead of having to block the tranny up on something, drop the pan, >> > gushing >> > >> fluid, etc. and working under it to get the v/b out for mods. >> > >> >> > >> That has always seemed so ignorant to me. I will never understand >> > >> why >> > drain >> > >> ports are not commonly >> > >> provided for trannys. >> > >> >> > >> I don't have a "workbench" so this shift kit install has got to be > done >> > >> either upside down on the carport deck, rightside up blocked up off > the >> > deck >> > >> so I can work underneath it, or with the tranny back in the truck. >> > >> >> > >> JeepNut >> > >> >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> >> > >> '92 Cherokee Laredo, bought new, an heirloom. Passed to one of >> > >> >> > >> the grandkids in 2009 -at- 270K miles.... >> > >> >> > >> '04 Grand Cherokee Laredo. Bone stock. It's hers. >> > >> >> > >> '87 Street Comanche #24/100. In storage. >> > >> >> > >> '88 Grand Wagoneer >> > >> >> > >> - '81 AMC 360 -.030 over- Edelbrock Performer/1400 600cfm 4bbl, >> > >> >> > >> TFI System upgrade, TF727 -mild kit- NP229, D44's F/R -3:31- >> > >> >> > >> B.J.'s Offroad 6" kit/ drop pittman, stainless extended brake lines, >> > >> >> > >> ProComp 3000 shocks, Maxxis Buckshot 33x12.5x15 >> > >> >> > >> 14 Spoke OEM Wagonwheels, IPF 65/55 lamps...and then some. >> > >> >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> >> > >> Registered Linux user #287453 >> > >> > _________________________________________________________________ >> > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. >> > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850553/direct/01/ >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. >> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850553/direct/01/ > > _________________________________________________________________ > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL > :en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 18:26:36 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: stupid question of the day you forgot the limited slip additive... NOW there is a fragrance you can't miss... or tell apart from hitting a skunk. I am so happy that amsoil gearlube already has the necessary additive in it for limited slips... that additive was some nasty stuff. and for the record mr. blair, Diesel smells way better than gasoline and has oh so many more benefits... ;) you can clean with it... you can use it as a mild lubricant... you can irritate certain canadians with it... and... the best of all, you can go at least 40% further than gas with it... ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 1 Apr 2010, Neal Hoover wrote: # sffsfsfsSFSFSFSFFFFF-hah..... # love the smell of 80-weight in the morning. # # Neal A. Hoover # Project '76 J-10 # Project '96 XJ # http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj # # ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Blair" # To: "Michel Balea" ; "fsj digest" # Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 8:00 PM # Subject: RE: fsj: stupid question of the day # # # > Gear oil or diesel is worse! # > # > > From: mbalea-at-hotmail.com # > > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com; fsj-at-digest.net # > > Subject: RE: fsj: stupid question of the day # > > Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 20:35:11 +0000 # > > # > > ATF is so thin, that it will find it way on your driveway. A few years # > back, # > > someone suggested to buy a large carbage can and secure the can and the # > trany # > > in it to do off bench work. # > > The people who do the trany overhaul in the burbs, have a metal bench # > slightly # > > inclined away from them with edges to channel the ATF toward the back # > > side # > of # > > the bench, it is also in open air, so the guys don't get exposure to too # > much # > > solvent. # > > # > > Good luck and get some of those disposable gloves, I strongly dislike the # > > smell of ATF with my food. # > > # > > Michel # > > 74 wag # > > # > > > From: carnuck-at-hotmail.com # > > > To: fsj-at-digest.net # > > > Subject: RE: fsj: stupid question of the day # > > > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 23:03:08 -0700 # > > > # > > > I use a siphon through the hole for the dip stick tube to empty it. If # > > there # > > > is crud in the pan and you flip it, that junk will get stuck in the # > gears, # > > etc # > > > and have a high likelihood of creating damage. # > > > # > > > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # > > > # > > > # > > > # > > > # > > > > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:57:51 -0700 # > > > > From: joe-at-j-hughes.com # > > > > To: fsj-at-digest.net # > > > > Subject: Re: fsj: stupid question of the day # > > > > # > > > > I would think the fluid would drain out of the vent on the topside of # > > > > the case. Once the VB is out most of the work is on the VB itself. I # > > > > don't think you could get away without draining what's left without # > > > > making a big mess. # > > > > # > > > > Just make sure you put a pan on it with drain plug, before you put it # > on. # > > > > # > > > > Joe H. # > > > > Everett, WA # > > > > # > > > > On 3/31/2010 8:47 PM, JeepNut wrote: # > > > > > I'm going to pull and replace a tranny in the Waggie. # > > > > > The "new" used one should be dropped off early next week. # > > > > > I'm planning to put a TransGo TF2 kit in the replacement tranny. # > > > > > # > > > > > Question is.... # > > > > > Is it possible to just flip the new one over and pull the pan, do # > > > > > the # > > > shift # > > > > > kit, etc without dumping all the tranny fluid out of it? After # > pulling # > > > the # > > > > > pan, I could siphon some out, if need be to install the shift kit. # > > > > > Finding some kind of plug for the dipstick socket might be the # > > > > > biggest # > > > problem # > > > > > with rolling it upside down. # > > > > > # > > > > > Just seems to me that sitting in is normal position, it wouldn't be # > > filled # > > > > > with fluid all the way to the very top of the housing right? So # > > flipping # > > > it # > > > > > over would put the air in the pan and allow a clean disassembly. # > > > > > Instead of having to block the tranny up on something, drop the # > > > > > pan, # > > > gushing # > > > > > fluid, etc. and working under it to get the v/b out for mods. # > > > > > # > > > > > That has always seemed so ignorant to me. I will never understand # > > > > > why # > > > drain # > > > > > ports are not commonly # > > > > > provided for trannys. # > > > > > # > > > > > I don't have a "workbench" so this shift kit install has got to be # > done # > > > > > either upside down on the carport deck, rightside up blocked up off # > the # > > > deck # > > > > > so I can work underneath it, or with the tranny back in the truck. # > > > > > # > > > > > JeepNut # > > > > > # > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- # > > > > > # > > > > > '92 Cherokee Laredo, bought new, an heirloom. Passed to one of # > > > > > # > > > > > the grandkids in 2009 -at- 270K miles.... # > > > > > # > > > > > '04 Grand Cherokee Laredo. Bone stock. It's hers. # > > > > > # > > > > > '87 Street Comanche #24/100. In storage. # > > > > > # > > > > > '88 Grand Wagoneer # > > > > > # > > > > > - '81 AMC 360 -.030 over- Edelbrock Performer/1400 600cfm 4bbl, # > > > > > # > > > > > TFI System upgrade, TF727 -mild kit- NP229, D44's F/R -3:31- # > > > > > # > > > > > B.J.'s Offroad 6" kit/ drop pittman, stainless extended brake # > > > > > lines, # > > > > > # > > > > > ProComp 3000 shocks, Maxxis Buckshot 33x12.5x15 # > > > > > # > > > > > 14 Spoke OEM Wagonwheels, IPF 65/55 lamps...and then some. # > > > > > # > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- # > > > > > # > > > > > Registered Linux user #287453 # > > > # > > > _________________________________________________________________ # > > > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. # > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850553/direct/01/ # > > # > > _________________________________________________________________ # > > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. # > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850553/direct/01/ # > # > _________________________________________________________________ # > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. # > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL # > :en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 21:27:38 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: fsj: Re: M-715 concept that's just way bitchin'!!! did that just debut at the EJS this week? Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Black" To: "Full Size Jeeps" Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 4:01 PM Subject: fsj: M-715 concept > For those on facebook... > > http://facebook.com/photo.php?pid=5017216&id=7037526514 > > They call it a "concept", apparently based on the M-715, though they > usually use "concept" to mean a futuristic idea they're slightly > actually considering. I really doubt they'd go back to the old body > style. Though that front grille and lights do look really similar to > the retro Mustang they did (and are still doing). (Wow, that's really > already been out five years?) > > Anyway, keep going in that album. There are a few more pics of that > truck, and lots of other cool pics. > > There's also this video of it -- be sure to watch it coming _and_ going. > http://facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1154726407335 > (Did John or I already send that link to the list this morning? If > so, it's the same video.) > > And someone posted this fan pic on their (Jeep's) page: > http://facebook.com/photo.php?pid=40188&id=100000904352910 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 20:34:41 -0700 (PDT) From: JeepNut Subject: Re: fsj: stupid question of the day Now that is the best answer of all! 4 out of 5 for Informative. 5 out of 5 for Just Good Entertainment. I appreciate your advice Mr. H, but I ain't skeerd. There's more to the story than I thought was necessary to bloat a post, but suffice it to say that you're admonishments rforegarding balls and the cost of ignorance are taken to heart. Thanks also to Jim B who always has some sage words. Hadn't thought about the crud floating "down" into the works. That's why I ask these things. But ignorance never kept me from taking something apart. I guess I've done alright. I've maintained an SJ, an XJ and an MJ through 200k miles mostly by myself. and the SJ and XJ are working close to 300K now. (XJ is right about 285k... runs strong as an ox. Burns little to no oil. (now this part John won't believe) and has ALWAYS had Valvoline 10w40 oil and PureOne filters, then switched to MaxLift starting about 80k. I've owned this XJ since new and when I pull covers, etc. I see little to no heavy sludge. Just what I'd consider normal stuff coating things in an engine with that many miles. Anyway, daddy always said there weren't nuttin' we cain't fix with our hands. Sometimes its hands on the tools. Sometimes its hands on the wallet. But we can always fix it. I just got word today that we may actually CLOSE the deal on a home purchase finally in the next 7 days so maybe I WILL have that garage and workbench after all before I do this work. When it rains, it pours. But it always dries out. Thanks for any additional advice folks! I'm old, not dead. So I'm still learning. - --- On Thu, 4/1/10, Terry Halmshaw wrote: From: Terry Halmshaw Subject: Re: fsj: stupid question of the day To: "JeepNut" Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 10:03 PM You don't list what trans is being modified, I assume it is the T/F 727, that being the case turning it upside down will lead to all sorts of problems, Jim Blair has listed just one, that being the crap in the bottom becomes crap in the top (not a good place to be). You also have ball bearings in the valve body that will simply fall out if the trans is upside down, you will then be seeking professional help in locating where each one goes, depending on model some are different sizes to others causing one huge headache. My advice take it to a trans shop and have them fit the $10.00 shift kit, you seem very ill prepared for such a job, not to mention you don't sound as though you have any knowledge on what you are about to undertake. A dangerous combination to say the least. Most people think "oh it's just a gasket, how hard can it be" well let me tell you how hard it can be, you make one minor mistake and the whole process must be done again, and these are not easy to pull out and put back. Be it on your own head sir, but for the sake of $10.00 shift kit. $1.00 pan gasket. $15.00 trans fluid. $25.00 labor you are even considering doing it yourself is just nuts, the "stupid question of the week" sums it up for me. Terry Halmshaw. At 07:47 PM 3/31/2010, you wrote: I'm going to pull and replace a tranny in the Waggie. The "new" used one should be dropped off early next week. I'm planning to put a TransGo TF2 kit in the replacement tranny. Question is.... Is it possible to just flip the new one over and pull the pan, do the shift kit, etc without dumping all the tranny fluid out of it? After pulling the pan, I could siphon some out, if need be to install the shift kit. Finding some kind of plug for the dipstick socket might be the biggest problem with rolling it upside down. Just seems to me that sitting in is normal position, it wouldn't be filled with fluid all the way to the very top of the housing right? So flipping it over would put the air in the pan and allow a clean disassembly. Instead of having to block the tranny up on something, drop the pan, gushing fluid, etc. and working under it to get the v/b out for mods. That has always seemed so ignorant to me. I will never understand why drain ports are not commonly provided for trannys. I don't have a "workbench" so this shift kit install has got to be done either upside down on the carport deck, rightside up blocked up off the deck so I can work underneath it, or with the tranny back in the truck. JeepNut - ---------------------------------------------------------- '92 Cherokee Laredo, bought new, an heirloom. Passed to one of the grandkids in 2009 -at- 270K miles.... '04 Grand Cherokee Laredo. Bone stock. It's hers. '87 Street Comanche #24/100. In storage. '88 Grand Wagoneer - '81 AMC 360 -.030 over- Edelbrock Performer/1400 600cfm 4bbl, TFI System upgrade, TF727 -mild kit- NP229, D44's F/R -3:31- B.J.'s Offroad 6" kit/ drop pittman, stainless extended brake lines, ProComp 3000 shocks, Maxxis Buckshot 33x12.5x15 14 Spoke OEM Wagonwheels, IPF 65/55 lamps...and then some. - ---------------------------------------------------------- Registered Linux user #287453 ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3556 **************************